Growing Makua in Thailand

[chownah]

Presently a few aphids ,not worth spraying

This is the right time to make up a hand spray bottle with dish washing detergent mixed up about like you would to do dishes (maybe a bit stronger...strong enough so it feels slippery and it creates a tiny bit of foam when sprayed) and spray those few aphids to keeep them in check. If you keep this sprayer handy and use it whenever you see a few aphids then you'll take care of the problem without having to worry about using poisons.

Chownah

[Somtham]

Well that was the biggest one that the kids found....I was surprised and for sure this is exceptional.

I've been thinking about your makua seed germination problem. It seems to me that when you did your last reported planting it was at least around here still fairly cool weather. I'm wondering if it was not hot enough then. The weather here has turned hot about one week ago and I had planted some makua yaw (long eggplant) seeds just out in the garden in the ground right where they'll grow. and with the warm weather they sprouted ok....I planted when the weather was still a bit cool and it just seemed like when it got hot it only took a couple of days for them to pop up....could be a coincidence though. If your weather is noticeably warmer now than the last time you planted you might try again. I planted mine out in the garden in full sun and sprinkled them two or three times a day just enough so that the surface never dried out for longer than an hour or two.....basically just kept the soil moist all the time. I was always sure to water near sunset so they would stay damp all night and then mostly watered them for the first time each day at mid morning before the soil surface had dried at all and then once at early afternoon when the sun was hot.....and then maybe once more if I happen to be out in the garden.

Chownah

Yes, I think definately weather related. It was very cold when we planted the seeds and for the last week it has been quite warm. About 30 of the 400 seeds have now germinated.

rgds

[btate]

Just a note, for tonight will post some photos and more specifics when I get the camera rolling (read batteries charged) tomorrow.

Tonight while watering I've noticed a couple of things that are interesting to say the least. Makua are NOT a plant and go away thing, especially if your intent is to be a commercailly viable operator.

Kudos to MF, his advice to saturate my makua that are planted in-situ was spot on. He recommended several gallons per watering per cycle for two weeks to compact the sandy soil around the plants. After one week of the saturation treatment the difference in plant growth is noticeable. Thanks MF.

He is also to be listened to when he says... " ..... check your plants every day...." I am not used to spraying for aphids one day and seeing them reappear in two days time, but its happening... I hand spray with a bottle, I've just a few "test" plants to its not a problem, making sure to cover the underside of the leaves but they just keep on comin and comin.

I've also noted that the ants, the little black ones the Thai call Monsters, are all over the plants. The aphids and ants are into both the bucketed and the inground plants.

One plant, the largest is showing fruits in a number of spots, the others have at least one or two fruits showing, they should be in full bloom within a week. But, seems I've got a problem, they are really ugly looking and would come nowhere near the quality to sell, to any market.

I'll post with photos either tomorrow or the next day.

bt

[Maizefarmer]

Btate

... and just what are you spraying the plants with?

Aphids and other sucking type insects are deal't with conpletly Actara (made by Syngenta and avalible in Thailand.)

Careful using Actara - 1/2 an Ounice per rai is more than enough - apply it not thorugh spraying but mixed with water (of course), and then use the water to water the plants. The uptake this way is slower (abbout 36 hrs) but is completely systemic - and will last for a lot longer. It will also ensure no fruit damage occurs.

MF

[btate]

OK camera works...

These photos show the condition of the fruit. Not to nice as you can see.

This next one is of the plant where the fruit were photo'd

And this is the stuff I'm using. I asked the store owner what to use on

tomatoes, he recommended this stuff.

I looked briefly for the stuff MF recommended but figured since I was only

working with a few test plants this would suffice.

Now I gotta go look again and get something that works through the root system.

My tomatoes are also at risk it seems, as aphids love em. Problem is figuring out

how little to use on a few plants vs. a rai or acre or hectare.

Bt

[chownah]

Aphids can be killed by spraying them with a solution of dish detergent mixed about like you mix dish water...maybe a bit stronger. You spray it on the aphid itself and it dissolves the waxy coating that covers their body and they dehydrate. There is no residual effect so you have to sray whenever you have an outbreak. I have used this approach for 4 years here in Thailand and I have found that since I don't use poisons there is a native ladybug population which keeps the aphids in balance and all I have to do is spray maybe once or twice a year on small isolated outbreaks that occur before the ladybugs notice it and get it under control. I have never used poisons for insects so I don't know for sure but I have heard that using poisons can kill the ladybug population which keeps the aphids in check and then you will have no alternative but to spray with more poisons since natures balance can not establish.

Of course there are different syles of farming and for those who just want to use poisons and find them adequate and acceptable will not want to try this and I have no arguement with those who do....its up to each of us to make our own decisions about what is the best practice for farming. I'm not here to try to convert anyone or to twist anyone's arm to get them to do things my way, I'm just wanting to be sure that people know about alternatives.

Chownah

[btate]

Chownah, yea I did try the soap but I decided to go chemical since it was

a continuing problem. That hasn't worked as well as I thought but its OK

since this is a test situation.

Next step is to do 40 / 50 EXACTLY as MF recommends and see what

happens. I'll be using a drip irrigation set up and will continue to use chemical

feed supplements and pesticide.

IF that works OK I'll probably go the greenhouse route and then the chem free

system is more likely.

Below are two fruits from different plants. The smaller (UGLY) one is from what

I thought was the strongest/biggest of the bunch. The nice looking one is from

one of the plants that were "behind".

Obviously I've a problem with the one plant. Maybe MF can shed some light on

it. Possibley a water problem????

bt

[ozzydom]

Chownah, yea I did try the soap but I decided to go chemical since it was

a continuing problem. That hasn't worked as well as I thought but its OK

since this is a test situation.

Next step is to do 40 / 50 EXACTLY as MF recommends and see what

happens. I'll be using a drip irrigation set up and will continue to use chemical

feed supplements and pesticide.

IF that works OK I'll probably go the greenhouse route and then the chem free

system is more likely.

Below are two fruits from different plants. The smaller (UGLY) one is from what

I thought was the strongest/biggest of the bunch. The nice looking one is from

one of the plants that were "behind".

Obviously I've a problem with the one plant. Maybe MF can shed some light on

it. Possibley a water problem????

bt

Hard to tell from the photo ,but looks more like a fungal or a water scorch problem,have the plants been subject to sun when wet ?

[btate]

^ No, other than rain all watering is done at the base of the plants by hand.

Bt

[btate]

One additional note

I asked the Ms how they tasted, in reference to that which are locally available.

Her comment was "The white one was great, the other was too old"... both picked at

the same time. The brownish one has been on the plant for considerably longer than

the other.

Hmmmm

B t

[Maizefarmer]

Btate

Lets start again!!!

No need to bin the plant, but it got off to a bad start.

My suggestion: start again - trim it right back - just as one would trim back a fruit tree for each season.

At the same time water it with an insecticide called ACTARA for two or three days. ACTARA is made by Syngenta, the same company that makes Karate Zeon. In this case it would be a better choice in my opinion as if it is given to the plant when watered, after it has been trim back, all the new foilage will be aphid (and literally any other bug) resitant - and should you be concerned about ladybirds and other predatory insects, then this method of applying the insecticide will not destro them.

It gets absorbed through the roots and sytemically works it's way throughout the whole plant - protecting it from insect damage - from the root up, to include all the leaves and fruit. It will also last a long time. You will suffer no more insect damage.

Actara is not cheap - it's about B500 for a container that is about the size of a tea-cup, but as said, 1/2 and ounce will do one rai, and you so seldom have to use it. That along with how comrpehensively it deals with all plant pests means it works out to be well worth it as you'll not have to spend anything else on insectides.

I'll have some input for you later this week reagrds the other damage (to the actual makua) - at which point I'll through in my 2 cents worth on that side of things.

MF

[btate]

Btate

Lets start again!!!

No need to bin the plant, but it got off to a bad start.

My suggestion: start again - trim it right back - just as one would trim back a fruit tree for each season.

At the same time water it with an insecticide called ACTARA for two or three days. ACTARA is made by Syngenta, the same company that makes Karate Zeon. In this case it would be a better choice in my opinion as if it is given to the plant when watered, after it has been trim back, all the new foilage will be aphid (and literally any other bug) resitant - and should you be concerned about ladybirds and other predatory insects, then this method of applying the insecticide will not destro them.

It gets absorbed through the roots and sytemically works it's way throughout the whole plant - protecting it from insect damage - from the root up, to include all the leaves and fruit. It will also last a long time. You will suffer no more insect damage.

Actara is not cheap - it's about B500 for a container that is about the size of a tea-cup, but as said, 1/2 and ounce will do one rai, and you so seldom have to use it. That along with how comrpehensively it deals with all plant pests means it works out to be well worth it as you'll not have to spend anything else on insectides.

I'll have some input for you later this week reagrds the other damage (to the actual makua) - at which point I'll through in my 2 cents worth on that side of things.

MF

Great, have been waiting for your learned observations...

Thanks

Bt

[btate]

Well, chopped the crap out of the 'bad' plant as MF suggested. It

will be interesting to see the results. On close inspection I found these

critters, not only on the chopped plant but on all the others.

At least one on every leaf of every plant... No evidence of them

doing damage.... No visible aphids so that problem appears to

be solved.

BTW these fruits a very sweet, according to the missus. Not the

species that MF recommends but otherwise quite good.

Am having some trouble finding East West Seeds here in the area

will have better luck in the "city". lol

Bt

[Mobaan]

Update from Udon:

Last week Tesco Lotus SOLD Makua for 2.5 Baht , admitted they were they old and wilted ,but sill 2.5 Baht is not much ,hardly worth the effort.

Regardless of that our first planting ,now about 3 month old is getting into full production -about 20 kg every 2 days from 100 meters of row . This was planted the Thai way -rows 1meter apart ,plants in the row perhps 60 cm apart. Under village conditions plantings like that never reach hight more than 60-70 cm and do not close rows . Our planting ,with all the help of cow manure ,compost and chem fertilizer , is growing vigerously . Plants in the rows are touching and intertwining already now . Now everybody agrees that 1,5 meter spacing as suggested by Maize Farmer may be indeed better . But that was my main reason to let them do it the old way , now they realize by themselves and do not have to believe what the falang says.

The next set of the planting is coming up the recommended way incl. drip irrigation ( but not in buckets) . We have this friendly little competion to see who can grow the most Makua -my prospects look good so far.

However with these selling prices one has to be very much aware of the input cost .

I want to set a min price I will accept , under that I will not sell and rather give every thing to the kitchen of the school and kindergarten in the village.

Even if they 15- 20 Baht/Kg mention earlier do not materialize , there is a lot of weight produced and even at lower selling prices the net result per Rai will by far outrank rice ,sugarcane and other "conventional " crops.

Its anice toy to play with ,with the possibilty to learn something and maybe make enough to pay for ongoing household expenses.

[btate]

Went to the Makham market on Tues.

Two different prices for Makua..

What appear to be F1 Hybrid (East-West type), they are the almost totally white ones, 15 Baht for 250 - 300 grams.

The tiger variety were 20 Baht for the same amount.

All were in excellent condition without any sign of brown spots.

Just a comparison.

A week ago at Lotus in Chantaburi, F1 (whites) were 39 per Kilo and were not perfect.

Bt

[btate]

Some further info.

I had placed a bamboo stick in the bucket with the plant that was just hacked/trimmed.

I took it out yesterday since the plant didn't need the support. The whole stick was absolutely wet. From the surface level to the bottom of the stick. It was nearly wet enough that the water would run off.

Apparently I've been overwatering by a substantial amount, especially those in buckets. Another clue was the ground around the buckets is moist at all times, seemingly from the runout from the holes in the sides of the buckets.

I have been giving each plant in buckets a little over 1 liter of water twice a day. MF's regimen of watering doesn't really specify the actuall amount each plant should recieve. In my case it looks like a lot less than 2 liters a day. A couple of factors may be involved. One, the humidity is always very high here; two I put about a 1/2 inch layer of wood shavings around the plants to act as a mulch to retain moisture as it is almost always breezy here.

The other plants in buckets are now showing the same signs (brown ends etc.) as those I've posted previously. It will be interesting to see the fruits of the inground plants that have substantially more drainage but recieved the same amount of water.

This whole experiment has been quite enlightening, hope MF comes back with his knowledge base to continue his guidance of us novitiates.

Bt

[Somtham]

Update from Udon:

Last week Tesco Lotus SOLD Makua for 2.5 Baht , admitted they were they old and wilted ,but sill 2.5 Baht is not much ,hardly worth the effort....edit

Last week our regular buyer offered my wife B1/kg. She did not sell them. Today we bagged up 8kg in 1/2kg bags and gave them to the lady that started buying fish from us. She's going to try selling them from her truck. We'll see tomorrow how she does. B10/kg would be welcomed.

rgds

[btate]

UPDATE

As Maize Farmer suggested in an earlier post, I whacked one of the plants right down to the bone on Mar. 13. All that was left was the base stalk - about the size of my little finger - and two or three 'branches. No leavese were left on the plant.

It looked kinda sickly, with just the stalk sticking up out of the pail. Today, it has fully leafed out again and there are flower buds starting. It looks really strong and healthy. So much so that I'm seriously thinking of whacking the rest back.

The systemic pesticide is doing its thing. Not a single sign of damage to any of the new tender leaves.

I'm also being very careful with the watering, as I mentioned earlier I was way overdoing it with a little more than a liter of water twice a day. Now its a liter a day in the evening. The wood chip mulch is really doing a job holding moisture in the bucket. It is also very humid here and afternoon showers often negate the need to water at all.

One other factor in the watering that just came to mind is that I didn't use just any old dirt when I was filling the pails. Rather I put about 2/3 of a bag of potting soil, and added about 25% dried manure. Possible that combo hold water better than regular old dirt???

Basically lost all my other starter plants, only a few days old, due to severe weather and flooding. When it rains here it comes down in buckets full. New starters are now in a non-flood setup.... Learn something new all the time when trying to grow stuff.

I think if I ever get to the point of doing this on a large scale, a greenhouse is the answer. That way you can absolutely control the environment, takes a lot of the guess work out of it.

This has been a great project to learn about raising veggies here. From finding pails, to locating herbicides and fertilizers and dealing with local weather conditions, its something new all the time. MF was correct in stating that starting out smallish will let you learn without too much pain. AND I haven't yet dealt with fuzzy catepillars or beetles

Bt

[btate]

Hmmmm wondering if I'm the only one still interested in this subject.

Maybe we are all waiting for MF's return to the forum.

These pictures today show the progress of the "whacked" plant.

Looks pretty decent to me. Lots of flowers showing even though they don't show

up in the photos very well.

This pix shows some of the results after using a systemic pesticide and reducing

water volume in the plants in buckets.

No evidence of bud rot or other problems.

bt

[Tim207]

Hmmmm wondering if I'm the only one still interested in this subject.

I am still very much interested. I have been back in the US for a couple of days and have not had time to post pics yet. My results are coming when I get acclimated. The forcast calls for possible snow tomorrow, that isn't helping my adjustment very much.

[chownah]

I'm interested too and in fact I was about to post asking for an update.

What price are people getting....the hot/dry is here so I imagine that prices have been inching up.

[btate]

Hmmmm wondering if I'm the only one still interested in this subject.

I am still very much interested. I have been back in the US for a couple of days and have not had time to post pics yet. My results are coming when I get acclimated. The forcast calls for possible snow tomorrow, that isn't helping my adjustment very much.

Tim

As I write this on Wed. afternoon we are getting our ass kicked AGAIN with a wicked

T- Storm... I'm ready this time though, No more drowning starters... lol

Have come across an interesting piece of property. 8 rai planted with mangosteen and longan. Not far from

the village. Has a 30 x 50 meter pond that has been dug to 11 meters. Pond is fed by ground water and

three... that's right, three artesian wells. Has a house that is wild and a two storey shop and all types of out

buildings. House is done first class throughout with hardwood floors, built-in book cases, desks and a 9 x 9

meter kitchen. All windows are aluminum sliders that are tinted. A nice deck and fish pond under a trellis.

About a rai of land that could easily be converted to makua without disturbing the orchard too

much. Price is 2.7MM baht but he's in trouble I know.

The ms is looking at a purchase. The freakkin house alone on a 1/2 rai would go for 5/6 MM in Chantaburi town.

Hope the trip was uneventful.

Bt

[Tim207]

Tim

As I write this on Wed. afternoon we are getting our ass kicked AGAIN with a wicked

T- Storm... I'm ready this time though, No more drowning starters... lol

Have come across an interesting piece of property. 8 rai planted with mangosteen and longan. Not far from

the village. Has a 30 x 50 meter pond that has been dug to 11 meters. Pond is fed by ground water and

three... that's right, three artesian wells. Has a house that is wild and a two storey shop and all types of out

buildings. House is done first class throughout with hardwood floors, built-in book cases, desks and a 9 x 9

meter kitchen. All windows are aluminum sliders that are tinted. A nice deck and fish pond under a trellis.

About a rai of land that could easily be converted to makua without disturbing the orchard too

much. Price is 2.7MM baht but he's in trouble I know.

The ms is looking at a purchase. The freakkin house alone on a 1/2 rai would go for 5/6 MM in Chantaburi town.

Hope the trip was uneventful.

Bt

It sounds like a great property. I especialy like the idea of a deck by the fish pond. I hope it works out for you. If you get it I will bring the beer and we can sit on the deck fishing while discussing the hectic life of makhua farming.

[btate]

/quote]

It sounds like a great property. I especialy like the idea of a deck by the fish pond. I hope it works out for you. If you get it I will bring the beer and we can sit on the deck fishing while discussing the hectic life of makhua farming.

Who knows what the future brings. I'm staying totally out of it other than supplying payments... lol

I wouldn't mind staying where I'm at but then........

Bt

[Somtham]

Tim

As I write this on Wed. afternoon we are getting our ass kicked AGAIN with a wicked

T- Storm... I'm ready this time though, No more drowning starters... lol

Have come across an interesting piece of property. 8 rai planted with mangosteen and longan. Not far from

the village. Has a 30 x 50 meter pond that has been dug to 11 meters. Pond is fed by ground water and

three... that's right, three artesian wells. Has a house that is wild and a two storey shop and all types of out

buildings. House is done first class throughout with hardwood floors, built-in book cases, desks and a 9 x 9

meter kitchen. All windows are aluminum sliders that are tinted. A nice deck and fish pond under a trellis.

About a rai of land that could easily be converted to makua without disturbing the orchard too

much. Price is 2.7MM baht but he's in trouble I know.

The ms is looking at a purchase. The freakkin house alone on a 1/2 rai would go for 5/6 MM in Chantaburi town.

Hope the trip was uneventful.

Bt

That property sounds pretty awesome with all sorts of potential.

Our makua plants have come back and are thriving. Our original customer is still offering B1/kg. My wife is bagging about 700g/bag and the fish customer is selling the bags from the back of her truck for B5. She says they are hard to sell as everybody has there own makua plants growing for home use.

We are now planting the rest of the garden with chiles which dried are selling for B140-150/kg.

rgds

[btate]

Our makua plants have come back and are thriving. Our original customer is still offering B1/kg. My wife is bagging about 700g/bag and the fish customer is selling the bags from the back of her truck for B5. She says they are hard to sell as everybody has there own makua plants growing for home use.

We are now planting the rest of the garden with chiles which dried are selling for B140-150/kg.

rgds

Odd pricing, I've been in both Lotus/Tesco and Macro within the last week or so.

Makua was going for between 20 and 25 baht / kilo and looked like crap. Brown

leaves and spotted all over.

You may be facing a localized problem in pricing. Still, not good for you. Maybe just

pick the flowers as MF suggests and see what the market does in your area.

Bt

[Tim207]

Odd pricing, I've been in both Lotus/Tesco and Macro within the last week or so.

Makua was going for between 20 and 25 baht / kilo and looked like crap. Brown

leaves and spotted all over.

You may be facing a localized problem in pricing. Still, not good for you. Maybe just

pick the flowers as MF suggests and see what the market does in your area.

Bt

Have you checked market prices? A few weeks ago the local markets were selling for 10 baht a kilo while Lotus was in the 20's. That could be why Lotus has old makhua, not many people willing to pay that inflated price.

I have started a new test here in the US with the rest of the seeds I had. I had to smuggle the seeds but I figured they wouldn't lock me up for a few makhua seeds. Planted about 3 days ago along with peppers, long beans and thai basil in a germination terrarium. Just some supplies to get me through until I can get back. Surprisingly, the long beans are already 4 inches tall. Nothing else has come up yet but it has only been 3 days.

I am hopeful that my Thai experiment will be cared for in my absense but I am not counting on it. The MIL showed interest so if the 2-3 week anual flood on my test plot doesn't kill them, I could have some plants when I get back.

[bannork]

Tim

As I write this on Wed. afternoon we are getting our ass kicked AGAIN with a wicked

T- Storm... I'm ready this time though, No more drowning starters... lol

Have come across an interesting piece of property. 8 rai planted with mangosteen and longan. Not far from

the village. Has a 30 x 50 meter pond that has been dug to 11 meters. Pond is fed by ground water and

three... that's right, three artesian wells. Has a house that is wild and a two storey shop and all types of out

buildings. House is done first class throughout with hardwood floors, built-in book cases, desks and a 9 x 9

meter kitchen. All windows are aluminum sliders that are tinted. A nice deck and fish pond under a trellis.

About a rai of land that could easily be converted to makua without disturbing the orchard too

much. Price is 2.7MM baht but he's in trouble I know.

The ms is looking at a purchase. The freakkin house alone on a 1/2 rai would go for 5/6 MM in Chantaburi town.

Hope the trip was uneventful.

Bt

That property sounds pretty awesome with all sorts of potential.

Our makua plants have come back and are thriving. Our original customer is still offering B1/kg. My wife is bagging about 700g/bag and the fish customer is selling the bags from the back of her truck for B5. She says they are hard to sell as everybody has there own makua plants growing for home use.

We are now planting the rest of the garden with chiles which dried are selling for B140-150/kg.

rgds

We must be doing something wrong because chillies here in Bandung 80 km north-east of Udon are going for 40 baht a kilo, still it's a lot better than the prices for eggplants -3 baht a kilo.

[bannork]

Tim

As I write this on Wed. afternoon we are getting our ass kicked AGAIN with a wicked

T- Storm... I'm ready this time though, No more drowning starters... lol

Have come across an interesting piece of property. 8 rai planted with mangosteen and longan. Not far from

the village. Has a 30 x 50 meter pond that has been dug to 11 meters. Pond is fed by ground water and

three... that's right, three artesian wells. Has a house that is wild and a two storey shop and all types of out

buildings. House is done first class throughout with hardwood floors, built-in book cases, desks and a 9 x 9

meter kitchen. All windows are aluminum sliders that are tinted. A nice deck and fish pond under a trellis.

About a rai of land that could easily be converted to makua without disturbing the orchard too

much. Price is 2.7MM baht but he's in trouble I know.

The ms is looking at a purchase. The freakkin house alone on a 1/2 rai would go for 5/6 MM in Chantaburi town.

Hope the trip was uneventful.

Bt

That property sounds pretty awesome with all sorts of potential.

Our makua plants have come back and are thriving. Our original customer is still offering B1/kg. My wife is bagging about 700g/bag and the fish customer is selling the bags from the back of her truck for B5. She says they are hard to sell as everybody has there own makua plants growing for home use.

We are now planting the rest of the garden with chiles which dried are selling for B140-150/kg.

rgds

We must be doing something wrong because chillies here in Bandung 80 km north-east of Udon are going for 40 baht a kilo, still it's a lot better than the prices for eggplants -3 baht a kilo.

[Somtham]

We must be doing something wrong because chillies here in Bandung 80 km north-east of Udon are going for 40 baht a kilo, still it's a lot better than the prices for eggplants -3 baht a kilo.

The B140-150 is for dried chiles with the stems clipped off. Fresh picked with stems on are about B40-50/kg. It takes 3 kg of fresh to make 1 kg of dried chiles.

Makua at the produce market in town are marked as B10.kg but I understand that regular customers that own restaurants and buy every day can but them much cheaper than marked.

rgds