Thailand declares war on United States and Britain, Jan. 25, 1942

[Enoon]

Perhaps they are grateful that the USA was so magnanimous after the war because The Brits and French would have preferred a different approach. But Thailand seems keen to embrace a different version of the East Asia co-prosperity sphere for the future, with a new mentor

It really is an interesting history, how in Washington's eyes war was never officially declared because, unlike in London, the Thai ambassador refused to deliver the declaration.

I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall listening to the U.S. resist British demands for reparations (which in my opinion they were owed).

Here we go again.The repetition of the hoary old myth that the Thai ambassador in Washington, MR Seni Pramoj, locked the declaration of war in his desk and thus enabled the post war government to argue Thailand had never been at war with the allies.

It's a good story.It's true Seni was sympathetic to the Seri Thai and it's true the British/ French desire for reparations was blocked by the US.But the suggestion war was never officially declared by the Thais is nonsense.The declaration was officially conveyed by the Thais and the US State Department has confirmed this and of course holds the original.

That's very interesting to hear. I'd be grateful if you could supply some evidence for your claim.

According to this text the declaration came via the Swiss foreign ministry to the American embassy in Berne and thence to the State Department in Washington, thus bypassing Seni, so his protestations were meaningless:

Thailand's Secret War: OSS, SOE and the Free Thai ...

It also points out that Washington received the declaration but decided to "ignore" it.

I suppose the author has done his research. Perhaps you could take it up with him.

[Enoon]

Alliances have been made and broken , some good some bad

history shows Thailand made the wrong choice at that time ;

the choices made now Thailand , will be evaluated in history,

some good , some bad

The wrong choice? on a pragmatic level it was a briliantly lucky choice, they were spared the destruction and enslavement the Japs would have inflicted had they resisted and then when they lost, the Yanks forgave reparations.... brilliant.

Which allowed Phibun to return as D******* after the war, which re-established the true nature of Thai politics.......kept getting characters like him ever since..........never developed into a mature democracy. Brilliant.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Enoon

[leeneeds]

Alliances have been made and broken , some good some bad

history shows Thailand made the wrong choice at that time ;

the choices made now Thailand , will be evaluated in history,

some good , some bad

The wrong choice? on a pragmatic level it was a briliantly lucky choice, they were spared the destruction and enslavement the Japs would have inflicted had they resisted and then when they lost, the Yanks forgave reparations.... brilliant.

wars rarely turn out the way anyone expects,

[spermwhale]

One thing this article omits, for some strange reason, is that the Thai ambassador in Washington D.C. refused to deliver the war declaration.

[AGareth2]

Who won

regards Worgeordie

Thailand

[soalbundy]

Al that got them was Bangkok being bombed by the US. Never heard of any massive Thai army movement in Europe or Asia

[Haydn]

I remember standing at attention with all my school friends on a very wet morning while the headmaster read out a list of all those ex pupils killed or injured. He the announce that Siam had declared war on Britain and that when we were victorious those responsible would be tried and executed.

[soalbundy]

Who won

regards Worgeordie

Thailand

but it wasn't their most favourite war, no swords or elephants

[jacky54]

I remember standing at attention with all my school friends on a very wet morning while the headmaster read out a list of all those ex pupils killed or injured. He the announce that Siam had declared war on Britain and that when we were victorious those responsible would be tried and executed.

They should have been executed, the Japanese certainly would have had no reservations had they won, and the Thais would have gone along with them

[stevenl]

So the local expats can now take heart and see that Thailand had a feeling of disdain and disregards toward foreigners

than, as much as they have now... nothing changed....

Ah, Japanese are not foreigners.

[Lupatria]

Thailand declares (d) war on United States and Britain, Jan. 25, 1942

The problem is too many Thais still seem to believe the won the war…

[Card]

Don't see this historical citation as newsworthy and a shortened misleading headline! The economy, international relations and political stability in LOS are a powder keg right now... Articles like this bring bowl & spoon to mind.

On the contrary, it is a bit of history few Thais are taught and is an important part of the development of S.E Asian relations to this day. Brief but conciese article.

Right. None know that the Victory Monument commemorates the war between France and Thailand at that time to gain eastern provinces back. Not even the Thailand armed forces monument staff knew - they told me 'probably something to do with fighting the Burmese"! They have been taught to hate the Burmese more than any other foreigner due to their history.

[MorristheRunt]

One thing that I found about after living here for a few years was the 100s of thousands of Thai lives lost during the construction of the "death" railway AKA Bridge over the River Kwai.

As a Brit, the story is part of our history, but I was shoked that the local Thai population was totaly ignorant to the local lives lost during the construction.

It says a lot about the way history is told in this country.

[GinBoy2]

On the whole. did Thailand declare war on US, this is the official US record from the library of Congress:

Thailand During World War II (1941–44): After World War II broke out in Europe (1939– 45), Japan used its influence with the Vichy regime in France to obtain territorial concessions for Thailand in Laos and Cambodia. The war for Thailand began in earnest on December 8, 1941, when Thai and Japanese troops clashed on the Isthmus of Kra. Bangkok acceded to Japan’s demands that its troops be permitted to cross the isthmus to invade Burma and Malaya. In January 1942, Phibun signed a mutual defense pact with Japan and declared war against Britain and the United States. Seni Pramoj, the anti-Japanese Thai ambassador to Washington, refused his government’s orders to deliver the declaration of war, and the United States refrained from declaring war on Thailand. Seni organized a Free Thai movement, and, with U.S. government support, Thai personnel were trained for anti-Japanese underground activities. In Thailand, Pridi ran a clandestine movement that, by the end of the war, with Allied aid had armed more than 50,000 Thai to resist the Japanese. During the early war years, Phibun was rewarded for his cooperation with Tokyo with the return of further territory that had once been under Thai control. Japan stationed some 150,000 troops in Thailand and built the infamous “death railway” across the River Kwai and through Thailand using Allied prisoners of war. The Allies bombed Bangkok during the war, and public opinion and the civilian political leaders forced Phibun out of office in June 1944.

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/cs/profiles/Thailand.pdf

[cumgranosalum]

As an anti-communist, Phibun was a US favorite and became PM again in 1947.

[HerbalEd]

Don't see this historical citation as newsworthy and a shortened misleading headline! The economy, international relations and political stability in LOS are a powder keg right now... Articles like this bring bowl & spoon to mind.

I found it very interesting and informative ... and not all together unrelated to present-day international relations.

[HerbalEd]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

220px-Siam_territoral_losses.gif

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

I'd say the Thai government's realistic fear of being crushed by Japan was the "mayor [sic] reason that Thailand sided with Japan."

[HerbalEd]

This report is just ridiculous, it doesn't tell the whole story!

The mayor reason that Thailand sided with Japan was that Japan promised to get Thailand back the land France had occupied from Thailand for their colonies in Cambodia and Laos. And the Brits had taken parts of Thailand to their colonize of Burma and Malaysia. Saying that Thailand should have sided with the allies is the same as saying that France should have sided with Germany when they invaded!!!

220px-Siam_territoral_losses.gif

I believe that this is one of the reasons why we as foreigners can't buy land in Thailand today!

Can the Japanese ... or any non-Thai's ... buy land in Thailand today?

[DrTuner]

One interesting tidbit is that Phibun, the fella that was in charge when the war was declared, is also the one responsible for Thainess. While they got rid of him, that "#%#%#¤ thing stuck.

[jacky54]

Also responsible for the laughable victory monument which turned out not to be as Thais had to give the land back or they would not have been admitted to the UN

Edited January 25, 2016 by jacky54

[HerbalEd]

Perhaps they are grateful that the USA was so magnanimous after the war because The Brits and French would have preferred a different approach. But Thailand seems keen to embrace a different version of the East Asia co-prosperity sphere for the future, with a new mentor

It really is an interesting history, how in Washington's eyes war was never officially declared because, unlike in London, the Thai ambassador refused to deliver the declaration.

I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall listening to the U.S. resist British demands for reparations (which in my opinion they were owed).

Here we go again.The repetition of the hoary old myth that the Thai ambassador in Washington, MR Seni Pramoj, locked the declaration of war in his desk and thus enabled the post war government to argue Thailand had never been at war with the allies.

It's a good story.It's true Seni was sympathetic to the Seri Thai and it's true the British/ French desire for reparations was blocked by the US.But the suggestion war was never officially declared by the Thais is nonsense.The declaration was officially conveyed by the Thais and the US State Department has confirmed this and of course holds the original.

I'm not saying you're incorrect ... as I'd like to know the real true history ... but do you have a credibly reference for this side of the story?

[leeneeds]

One thing that I found about after living here for a few years was the 100s of thousands of Thai lives lost during the construction of the "death" railway AKA Bridge over the River Kwai.

As a Brit, the story is part of our history, but I was shoked that the local Thai population was totaly ignorant to the local lives lost during the construction.

It says a lot about the way history is told in this country.

Not only this country , the USA, England , France all have skeletons in the closet , if you really want to look, plenty of atrocities happened that were ignored. and have been assigned to history for those who want to look,

War against Evil and tyranny words used to rally the peoples , only have to look past the bullshit,

[sanukjim]

Don't see this historical citation as newsworthy and a shortened misleading headline! The economy, international relations and political stability in LOS are a powder keg right now... Articles like this bring bowl & spoon to mind.

bboy,(does this mean buttboy?) If you don't like the reporting of history oof interesting items,skip over them to read about your lady boy news.

[sanukjim]

So the local expats can now take heart and see that Thailand had a feeling of disdain and disregards toward foreigners

than, as much as they have now... nothing changed....

Actually it was "The Kiss Ass policy " that influenced the government at the time as they had no way opposing any army.

[anglesea]

Thailand really had no choice in the matter. They were quickly overrun and told what to do by a Japanese army. It is important to remember than an estimated 100,000 Thai people died under Japanese occupation building railways and other infrastructure for their military. Memorials to allied POW's are dwarfed by these losses that are rarely mentioned

[HerbalEd]

Thailand declares (d) war on United States and Britain, Jan. 25, 1942

The problem is too many Thais still seem to believe the won the war…

Most of the Thais I've met don't even know there was a war ... included college graduates.

[Baerboxer]

Perhaps they are grateful that the USA was so magnanimous after the war because The Brits and French would have preferred a different approach. But Thailand seems keen to embrace a different version of the East Asia co-prosperity sphere for the future, with a new mentor

The Yanks were keen to replace the British and French as the influential power in S E Asia after WW11. The colonial masters of the Philippines brought a different type and style of influence. The fight against communism and its spread necessitated keeping right wing countries such as Japan and Thailand as strong allies.

The war crimes of the former were glossed over with minimal concerns about justice in comparison to their German allies. A sign of the expedient attitude of American foreign policies to come, and which are still experienced today.The end justifies the means.

[cloudhopper]

From Wikipedia - Although the Thai ambassador in London had delivered Phibun's declaration of war to the British government, the Thai ambassador in Washington DC, Seni Pramoj, refused to do so. Accordingly, the United States did not declare war on Thailand. With American assistance, Seni, a conservative aristocrat with well established anti-Japanese credentials, organised the Free Thai Movement in the United States, recruiting Thai students to work with the United States Office of Strategic Services (OSS). Seni was able to achieve this because the State Department decided to act as if Seni continued to represent Thailand, enabling him to draw on Thai assets frozen by the United States.^[12]

[SOTIRIOS]

...glory be....

[mojorison]

The irony with this is that Thais will look you in the eye and tell you pretty much that they, and they alone defeated the Japanese. Hand to hand, mano a mano, in the jungles and trenches. If it wasn't for the brazenly brave and equally lethal Thai militaristic efforts in WW2, we'd all cease to be. God bless their little sox. (Roll over??? WHAAAAT????)