SURVEY: Is it getting easier or more difficult to stay in Thailand?

[Scott]

In your opinion is it getting easier for people to stay in Thailand? This includes those who reside here with a long term visa, such as a non-B or non-O.

Please feel free to leave a comment.

[asdecas]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in this topic - unsurprisingly.

[jacksam]

Luckily the money isn't big deal for me. However when first arrived 3 years ago the aud was on par with USD . Now it's 70 and heading to 65. Also things in los are not free. Went to Jay Jay for example yesterday and small bottle beer 120baht. Yes cheaper than AU but much more expensive that say Vietnam. So yes I think harder for some. I don't read those stupid threads about "I live here on 25k baht a month . I spend 60k aud here a year here and would not call it lavish. Note that amount includes the live with tgf.

[LNKDES1]

It is a bit more difficult. But nobody said cleaning out the riffraff was gonna be easy. Can't just snap your fingers & expect it all to be fixed. Baby steps.

[NoshowJones]

This all depends on why you are staying in Thailand. The very first Farang I met when I came to Thailand to stay with my G/F, (now wife) was in

his early fifties, he had never married, and never wants to, but moved here to be with his girlfriend.

He had a new house built for both of them, had property rented out in the UK, and lived here on tourist visas, he also invested in his GFs business

but never worked in it. Now I am not saying people should be able to live here on tourist visas, but there should have been a way for him to live here

without throwing his money away on the Elite visa which IMO is not a good deal as you get nothing in return while still contributing to Thailands economy.

Yes, he could have got a retirement visa, which he may have done, if he had not split up with his girlfriend and moved away, but supposing this was today,

and that guy was in his mid forties, apart from getting married, or getting the Elite visa, what other options would he have without jumping through so many hoops?

[Suradit69]

If you are genuinely eligible for the appropriate visa or extension of stay, it's pretty much the same as it's been for many years.

If you were overstaying your permission to stay or using some immigration strategy that wasn't intended for long term stayers, things have become more difficult.

Those in the latter category brought the difficulty on themselves, although a lax enforcement policy enabled them.

[Eclipse]

If you qualify it is as easy as it always has been.

If you do not and spend your time trying to get round the rules it is probably more difficult.

[jacksam]

It is a bit more difficult. But nobody said cleaning out the riffraff was gonna be easy. Can't just snap your fingers & expect it all to be fixed. Baby steps.

I have no concrete evidence for the following, however, I think there are many more overstay folk here than we may imagine. To be fair to thai imm rules, they have been very generous with overstay penalties. March 20 the goal posts shift. I wonder how many have the funds for fines. Then of course to return they may be limited to setv. Not enough money to fly back to farang world for the METV. So for some I think it will become very difficult to remain.

[ironbark]

I have no intention or desire to live here full time but i am a frequent visitor coming 3 or 4 times a year for periods of one to three months. The current visa rules are quite satisfactory and i have never had a problem.

However, the regular reinterpretation and inconsistant application of the rules makes me wary and nervous each time I come back.

[MockingJay]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in this topic - unsurprisingly.

I think this is mainly, because there's a similar discussion going on here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/890918-less-farang-living-in-los/

[IMA_FARANG]

I came here in 2010 with a non O visa planning to retire....which I did.

The way I legally got that visa at that time would not be possible today....as the requirements now require more documents that were not required at that time.

So between 2010 and 2015 it has definitely got more difficult to qualify for that visa now.

[TheKnave]

I have no intention or desire to live here full time but i am a frequent visitor coming 3 or 4 times a year for periods of one to three months. The current visa rules are quite satisfactory and i have never had a problem.

However, the regular reinterpretation and inconsistant application of the rules makes me wary and nervous each time I come back.

The rules have always been applied inconsistently, but the general trend was flat for many years. I think a certain amount of negative public opinion and resentment has been building since '97, when the Thais wouldn't face the fact that their own economic policy (or lack thereof) precipitated the currency crash. Having to accept IMF bailout, and some externally imposed restrictions was not popular, with people calling the IMF, "International Mother and Father", and culminating with Thaksin (" The UN is not my father"), and the rise of the jingoisticly named Thai Rak Thai party.

Since then, various governments have whipped up distrust of foreigners whenever their failures needed cover. Public opinion wavered accordingly, and so did enforcement of existing immigration law, as well as a few draconian adventures into new ones (remember 90 days in any 180 day period?). Still, the trend was only slightly toward tightening, and Immigration pretty much followed public sentiment, some better and some worse, but on average, manageable.

At this point, it bears mentioning that, very often, a few baht was needed to get things done at Immigration. In Nong Khai, for instance, one of the IOs had cookies for sale, and a few baht got you something to munch on, and your passport stamped...

As petty corruption came under scrutiny, especially after the 2006 coup, Immigration officers came under a lot of pressure, and foreigners numbers were increasing. It was no longer as easy to make extra cash by extorting visa applicants. This was a huge source of resentment, and contributes to the unpleasantness and lack of service that many experience. The agents, with their stacks of passports, and, more importantly, their brown envelopes, are still welcomed, and treated well...

So, the trend of public opinion, and that of Immigration, which follows it, has been gradually, but steadily becoming anti-foreigner. The trend, since the junta took power, however, is more like the end of a hockey stick.

The petulance at the actions against human trafficking, air worthiness, etc., is demonstrable, and the public is palpably resentful at being subjected to what they see as outside interference. The refusal of the NASA monitoring station, the lagging on Cobra Gold and the shift toward China are all related to this trend. It's not surprising, therefore, that petty bureaucrats feel justified in making things harder for Western residents. The placing of the onus for getting a TM30 done, which is the landlord's responsibility, on the applicant, is just one example.

The enforcement of these laws was always reserved for bad actors, and used effectively to get rid of them, if need be. Now, someone who wants to use Thailand as a base to explore SEA has to live in fear that he will be refused entry upon encountering an IO who had a bad day. In the past, even a bad IO wouldn't say much more than, "Isn't it about time you went home?" And maybe hint around for a purple note...

All this is not to say that foreigners don't cause many of their own problems. The internet has made it possible for the most clueless to make their way to Thailand, and behave accordingly. And turning Chiang Mai into a giant geriatric intensive care unit has not gone unnoticed. No offense to the many lovely retirees there, of course.

Before all that, many people chose Thailand for the freedom and adventure, and the easy-going life there. While there are still ways to live that life, increasingly, the desperate refugees from Western society have taken over, determined to infect the first place with their desperation. Words like, "appropriate visa", " genuine reason to be in Thailand", etc., have replaced the live-and-let-live spirit that used to exist. Now, it's all about making it like whatever miserable hole they came from - more laws, more penalties, kick out those perceived as only in Thailand for fun, etc., etc.

Particularly galling is these desperate bastards attempting to speak on behalf of the Thai people and government, as if they have any insight. Telling you whether or not you're a 'genuine tourist'? Bullshit.

So, yes, it's getting harder to stay in Thailand, if only for having to suffer these types.

Good day.

[jacksam]

TheKnave. Well written. You seem to have lived here quite some time. Out of interest, if it's not to personal, what visas etc have you used to enable long term stay?

Personally I'm over 50 so O based on retirement. However if I was under I would use the METV and SETV to remain. Hopefully the METV may become available at nearby consulates. I think it's possible to stay here on tourist visas but for some has become harder

[Briggsy]

There is virtually nobody, I mean nobody, who cannot remain in Thailand on a permanent basis. There will be costs involved and the possibility of visa runs.

In this country, "If there is a will, there is a way."

[gandalf12]

Stick to the rules and it is pretty much the same as it has always been.

[roxnadz]

It's slightly harder for us digital nomads. I was sorted to be here just under 6 months a year with a twice-bounced double-entry Tourist visa. Now, I have to opt for METV and the silly requirements it has, or run by a consulate for a single entry every time I return to the States. Not a problem from a financial perspective as I always return home between entries, but definitely an added inconvenience and cost. Of course, with METV, I don't have to take a whole day out for the Immigration sideshow that comes with bouncing an entry...*shrug*

As it stands, I won't be here for more than 4 months out of the year going forward anyway because I'll be spending more time discovering my home country. If that was the desired effect, then they got it.

I heard that you can't bounce an entry on a METV like you can a tourist visa entry? Meaning that you have to be out of the country in 60 days per entry, period. Is that true?

[gandalf12]

I have no intention or desire to live here full time but i am a frequent visitor coming 3 or 4 times a year for periods of one to three months. The current visa rules are quite satisfactory and i have never had a problem.

However, the regular reinterpretation and inconsistant application of the rules makes me wary and nervous each time I come back.

The rules have always been applied inconsistently, but the general trend was flat for many years. I think a certain amount of negative public opinion and resentment has been building since '97, when the Thais wouldn't face the fact that their own economic policy (or lack thereof) precipitated the currency crash. Having to accept IMF bailout, and some externally imposed restrictions was not popular, with people calling the IMF, "International Mother and Father", and culminating with Thaksin (" The UN is not my father"), and the rise of the jingoisticly named Thai Rak Thai party.

Since then, various governments have whipped up distrust of foreigners whenever their failures needed cover. Public opinion wavered accordingly, and so did enforcement of existing immigration law, as well as a few draconian adventures into new ones (remember 90 days in any 180 day period?). Still, the trend was only slightly toward tightening, and Immigration pretty much followed public sentiment, some better and some worse, but on average, manageable.

At this point, it bears mentioning that, very often, a few baht was needed to get things done at Immigration. In Nong Khai, for instance, one of the IOs had cookies for sale, and a few baht got you something to munch on, and your passport stamped...

As petty corruption came under scrutiny, especially after the 2006 coup, Immigration officers came under a lot of pressure, and foreigners numbers were increasing. It was no longer as easy to make extra cash by extorting visa applicants. This was a huge source of resentment, and contributes to the unpleasantness and lack of service that many experience. The agents, with their stacks of passports, and, more importantly, their brown envelopes, are still welcomed, and treated well...

So, the trend of public opinion, and that of Immigration, which follows it, has been gradually, but steadily becoming anti-foreigner. The trend, since the junta took power, however, is more like the end of a hockey stick.

The petulance at the actions against human trafficking, air worthiness, etc., is demonstrable, and the public is palpably resentful at being subjected to what they see as outside interference. The refusal of the NASA monitoring station, the lagging on Cobra Gold and the shift toward China are all related to this trend. It's not surprising, therefore, that petty bureaucrats feel justified in making things harder for Western residents. The placing of the onus for getting a TM30 done, which is the landlord's responsibility, on the applicant, is just one example.

The enforcement of these laws was always reserved for bad actors, and used effectively to get rid of them, if need be. Now, someone who wants to use Thailand as a base to explore SEA has to live in fear that he will be refused entry upon encountering an IO who had a bad day. In the past, even a bad IO wouldn't say much more than, "Isn't it about time you went home?" And maybe hint around for a purple note...

All this is not to say that foreigners don't cause many of their own problems. The internet has made it possible for the most clueless to make their way to Thailand, and behave accordingly. And turning Chiang Mai into a giant geriatric intensive care unit has not gone unnoticed. No offense to the many lovely retirees there, of course.

Before all that, many people chose Thailand for the freedom and adventure, and the easy-going life there. While there are still ways to live that life, increasingly, the desperate refugees from Western society have taken over, determined to infect the first place with their desperation. Words like, "appropriate visa", " genuine reason to be in Thailand", etc., have replaced the live-and-let-live spirit that used to exist. Now, it's all about making it like whatever miserable hole they came from - more laws, more penalties, kick out those perceived as only in Thailand for fun, etc., etc.

Particularly galling is these desperate bastards attempting to speak on behalf of the Thai people and government, as if they have any insight. Telling you whether or not you're a 'genuine tourist'? Bullshit.

So, yes, it's getting harder to stay in Thailand, if only for having to suffer these types.

Good day.

Ever considered living your own life and letting others not get you down?

[alex8912]

Even though many people seem to think a real tourist does not come here for five or six months you would be surprised as to how many actually do. Many like myself come here for the Winter and the new EASY to get in some countries METV is perfect for that. I actually prefer to take a nice side trip every 60 days instead of wasting a day of my life at immigration for a 30 day extension and paying another 1900 baht for it. If you have already paid about $200 the extension should be free or for some people I think a 90 day term for each entry should be the law. Even the triple entry visa I used to get was crap because I oftene left the country within the first two weeks of arriving and you either had to use up an entry or pay yet another 1000 baht at the airport to keep the original term. That was BS.

[ubonjoe]

It's slightly harder for us digital nomads. I was sorted to be here just under 6 months a year with a twice-bounced double-entry Tourist visa. Now, I have to opt for METV and the silly requirements it has, or run by a consulate for a single entry every time I return to the States. Not a problem from a financial perspective as I always return home between entries, but definitely an added inconvenience and cost. Of course, with METV, I don't have to take a whole day out for the Immigration sideshow that comes with bouncing an entry...*shrug*

As it stands, I won't be here for more than 4 months out of the year going forward anyway because I'll be spending more time discovering my home country. If that was the desired effect, then they got it.

I heard that you can't bounce an entry on a METV like you can a tourist visa entry? Meaning that you have to be out of the country in 60 days per entry, period. Is that true?

You don't have to be out of the the country any longer than it takes to turnaround and come back to use another entry from the METV. Not sure where you heard or read the 60 days but is certainly wrong. People have already done border hops to get a new entry from a METV.

[yellowboat]

I have no intention or desire to live here full time but i am a frequent visitor coming 3 or 4 times a year for periods of one to three months. The current visa rules are quite satisfactory and i have never had a problem.

However, the regular reinterpretation and inconsistant application of the rules makes me wary and nervous each time I come back.

The rules have always been applied inconsistently, but the general trend was flat for many years. I think a certain amount of negative public opinion and resentment has been building since '97, when the Thais wouldn't face the fact that their own economic policy (or lack thereof) precipitated the currency crash. Having to accept IMF bailout, and some externally imposed restrictions was not popular, with people calling the IMF, "International Mother and Father", and culminating with Thaksin (" The UN is not my father"), and the rise of the jingoisticly named Thai Rak Thai party.

Since then, various governments have whipped up distrust of foreigners whenever their failures needed cover. Public opinion wavered accordingly, and so did enforcement of existing immigration law, as well as a few draconian adventures into new ones (remember 90 days in any 180 day period?). Still, the trend was only slightly toward tightening, and Immigration pretty much followed public sentiment, some better and some worse, but on average, manageable.

At this point, it bears mentioning that, very often, a few baht was needed to get things done at Immigration. In Nong Khai, for instance, one of the IOs had cookies for sale, and a few baht got you something to munch on, and your passport stamped...

As petty corruption came under scrutiny, especially after the 2006 coup, Immigration officers came under a lot of pressure, and foreigners numbers were increasing. It was no longer as easy to make extra cash by extorting visa applicants. This was a huge source of resentment, and contributes to the unpleasantness and lack of service that many experience. The agents, with their stacks of passports, and, more importantly, their brown envelopes, are still welcomed, and treated well...

So, the trend of public opinion, and that of Immigration, which follows it, has been gradually, but steadily becoming anti-foreigner. The trend, since the junta took power, however, is more like the end of a hockey stick.

The petulance at the actions against human trafficking, air worthiness, etc., is demonstrable, and the public is palpably resentful at being subjected to what they see as outside interference. The refusal of the NASA monitoring station, the lagging on Cobra Gold and the shift toward China are all related to this trend. It's not surprising, therefore, that petty bureaucrats feel justified in making things harder for Western residents. The placing of the onus for getting a TM30 done, which is the landlord's responsibility, on the applicant, is just one example.

The enforcement of these laws was always reserved for bad actors, and used effectively to get rid of them, if need be. Now, someone who wants to use Thailand as a base to explore SEA has to live in fear that he will be refused entry upon encountering an IO who had a bad day. In the past, even a bad IO wouldn't say much more than, "Isn't it about time you went home?" And maybe hint around for a purple note...

All this is not to say that foreigners don't cause many of their own problems. The internet has made it possible for the most clueless to make their way to Thailand, and behave accordingly. And turning Chiang Mai into a giant geriatric intensive care unit has not gone unnoticed. No offense to the many lovely retirees there, of course.

Before all that, many people chose Thailand for the freedom and adventure, and the easy-going life there. While there are still ways to live that life, increasingly, the desperate refugees from Western society have taken over, determined to infect the first place with their desperation. Words like, "appropriate visa", " genuine reason to be in Thailand", etc., have replaced the live-and-let-live spirit that used to exist. Now, it's all about making it like whatever miserable hole they came from - more laws, more penalties, kick out those perceived as only in Thailand for fun, etc., etc.

Particularly galling is these desperate bastards attempting to speak on behalf of the Thai people and government, as if they have any insight. Telling you whether or not you're a 'genuine tourist'? Bullshit.

So, yes, it's getting harder to stay in Thailand, if only for having to suffer these types.

Good day.

Very nicely written. We work with some amazing Thais, but due to the current laws find it difficult to expand business with them. Foreign investment is at an all time low.

If you are a pensioner or the occasional holiday maker, Thailand is probably the same for you. For those of us who buy and sell in the country, it has become less interesting.

[bazza40]

. And turning Chiang Mai into a giant geriatric intensive care unit has not gone unnoticed. No offense to the many lovely retirees there, of course.

And this week's winner for disingenuous statements is.......

[DeeMak9]

I have no intention or desire to live here full time but i am a frequent visitor coming 3 or 4 times a year for periods of one to three months. The current visa rules are quite satisfactory and i have never had a problem.

However, the regular reinterpretation and inconsistant application of the rules makes me wary and nervous each time I come back.

The rules have always been applied inconsistently, but the general trend was flat for many years. I think a certain amount of negative public opinion and resentment has been building since '97, when the Thais wouldn't face the fact that their own economic policy (or lack thereof) precipitated the currency crash. Having to accept IMF bailout, and some externally imposed restrictions was not popular, with people calling the IMF, "International Mother and Father", and culminating with Thaksin (" The UN is not my father"), and the rise of the jingoisticly named Thai Rak Thai party.

Since then, various governments have whipped up distrust of foreigners whenever their failures needed cover. Public opinion wavered accordingly, and so did enforcement of existing immigration law, as well as a few draconian adventures into new ones (remember 90 days in any 180 day period?). Still, the trend was only slightly toward tightening, and Immigration pretty much followed public sentiment, some better and some worse, but on average, manageable.

At this point, it bears mentioning that, very often, a few baht was needed to get things done at Immigration. In Nong Khai, for instance, one of the IOs had cookies for sale, and a few baht got you something to munch on, and your passport stamped...

As petty corruption came under scrutiny, especially after the 2006 coup, Immigration officers came under a lot of pressure, and foreigners numbers were increasing. It was no longer as easy to make extra cash by extorting visa applicants. This was a huge source of resentment, and contributes to the unpleasantness and lack of service that many experience. The agents, with their stacks of passports, and, more importantly, their brown envelopes, are still welcomed, and treated well...

So, the trend of public opinion, and that of Immigration, which follows it, has been gradually, but steadily becoming anti-foreigner. The trend, since the junta took power, however, is more like the end of a hockey stick.

The petulance at the actions against human trafficking, air worthiness, etc., is demonstrable, and the public is palpably resentful at being subjected to what they see as outside interference. The refusal of the NASA monitoring station, the lagging on Cobra Gold and the shift toward China are all related to this trend. It's not surprising, therefore, that petty bureaucrats feel justified in making things harder for Western residents. The placing of the onus for getting a TM30 done, which is the landlord's responsibility, on the applicant, is just one example.

The enforcement of these laws was always reserved for bad actors, and used effectively to get rid of them, if need be. Now, someone who wants to use Thailand as a base to explore SEA has to live in fear that he will be refused entry upon encountering an IO who had a bad day. In the past, even a bad IO wouldn't say much more than, "Isn't it about time you went home?" And maybe hint around for a purple note...

All this is not to say that foreigners don't cause many of their own problems. The internet has made it possible for the most clueless to make their way to Thailand, and behave accordingly. And turning Chiang Mai into a giant geriatric intensive care unit has not gone unnoticed. No offense to the many lovely retirees there, of course.

Before all that, many people chose Thailand for the freedom and adventure, and the easy-going life there. While there are still ways to live that life, increasingly, the desperate refugees from Western society have taken over, determined to infect the first place with their desperation. Words like, "appropriate visa", " genuine reason to be in Thailand", etc., have replaced the live-and-let-live spirit that used to exist. Now, it's all about making it like whatever miserable hole they came from - more laws, more penalties, kick out those perceived as only in Thailand for fun, etc., etc.

Particularly galling is these desperate bastards attempting to speak on behalf of the Thai people and government, as if they have any insight. Telling you whether or not you're a 'genuine tourist'? Bullshit.

So, yes, it's getting harder to stay in Thailand, if only for having to suffer these types.

Good day.

Amen.

[mngmn]

I have no intention or desire to live here full time but i am a frequent visitor coming 3 or 4 times a year for periods of one to three months. The current visa rules are quite satisfactory and i have never had a problem.

However, the regular reinterpretation and inconsistant application of the rules makes me wary and nervous each time I come back.

The rules have always been applied inconsistently, but the general trend was flat for many years. I think a certain amount of negative public opinion and resentment has been building since '97, when the Thais wouldn't face the fact that their own economic policy (or lack thereof) precipitated the currency crash. Having to accept IMF bailout, and some externally imposed restrictions was not popular, with people calling the IMF, "International Mother and Father", and culminating with Thaksin (" The UN is not my father"), and the rise of the jingoisticly named Thai Rak Thai party.

Since then, various governments have whipped up distrust of foreigners whenever their failures needed cover. Public opinion wavered accordingly, and so did enforcement of existing immigration law, as well as a few draconian adventures into new ones (remember 90 days in any 180 day period?). Still, the trend was only slightly toward tightening, and Immigration pretty much followed public sentiment, some better and some worse, but on average, manageable.

At this point, it bears mentioning that, very often, a few baht was needed to get things done at Immigration. In Nong Khai, for instance, one of the IOs had cookies for sale, and a few baht got you something to munch on, and your passport stamped...

As petty corruption came under scrutiny, especially after the 2006 coup, Immigration officers came under a lot of pressure, and foreigners numbers were increasing. It was no longer as easy to make extra cash by extorting visa applicants. This was a huge source of resentment, and contributes to the unpleasantness and lack of service that many experience. The agents, with their stacks of passports, and, more importantly, their brown envelopes, are still welcomed, and treated well...

So, the trend of public opinion, and that of Immigration, which follows it, has been gradually, but steadily becoming anti-foreigner. The trend, since the junta took power, however, is more like the end of a hockey stick.

The petulance at the actions against human trafficking, air worthiness, etc., is demonstrable, and the public is palpably resentful at being subjected to what they see as outside interference. The refusal of the NASA monitoring station, the lagging on Cobra Gold and the shift toward China are all related to this trend. It's not surprising, therefore, that petty bureaucrats feel justified in making things harder for Western residents. The placing of the onus for getting a TM30 done, which is the landlord's responsibility, on the applicant, is just one example.

The enforcement of these laws was always reserved for bad actors, and used effectively to get rid of them, if need be. Now, someone who wants to use Thailand as a base to explore SEA has to live in fear that he will be refused entry upon encountering an IO who had a bad day. In the past, even a bad IO wouldn't say much more than, "Isn't it about time you went home?" And maybe hint around for a purple note...

All this is not to say that foreigners don't cause many of their own problems. The internet has made it possible for the most clueless to make their way to Thailand, and behave accordingly. And turning Chiang Mai into a giant geriatric intensive care unit has not gone unnoticed. No offense to the many lovely retirees there, of course.

Before all that, many people chose Thailand for the freedom and adventure, and the easy-going life there. While there are still ways to live that life, increasingly, the desperate refugees from Western society have taken over, determined to infect the first place with their desperation. Words like, "appropriate visa", " genuine reason to be in Thailand", etc., have replaced the live-and-let-live spirit that used to exist. Now, it's all about making it like whatever miserable hole they came from - more laws, more penalties, kick out those perceived as only in Thailand for fun, etc., etc.

Particularly galling is these desperate bastards attempting to speak on behalf of the Thai people and government, as if they have any insight. Telling you whether or not you're a 'genuine tourist'? Bullshit.

So, yes, it's getting harder to stay in Thailand, if only for having to suffer these types.

Good day.

Ever considered living your own life and letting others not get you down?

I think you just answered your own question for him

[Dap]

If you are genuinely eligible for the appropriate visa or extension of stay, it's pretty much the same as it's been for many years.

If you were overstaying your permission to stay or using some immigration strategy that wasn't intended for long term stayers, things have become more difficult.

Those in the latter category brought the difficulty on themselves, although a lax enforcement policy enabled them.

Although I agree with you I still ticked off "more difficult" as

I need to deal with Chiang Mai Immigration and that is w/o

a doubt more and more crowded thus more & more difficult

each year, much to my dismay

[MaeJoMTB]

7 years ago I posted my passport and some money to the Thai consulate in Birmingham (over age 50).

It came back 3 days later with a 1 year multi entry VISA ..... I stayed 15 months.

Now, despite being married, and with a Thai son, I have to turn up at CM Immigration at 4am, fill out pages of forms and photo copies, be interviewed with my wife, maybe a home visit later. Wait one month for confirmation of my 1 year extension.

Definitely more difficult.

Edited January 31, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[mngmn]

I have no intention or desire to live here full time but i am a frequent visitor coming 3 or 4 times a year for periods of one to three months. The current visa rules are quite satisfactory and i have never had a problem.

However, the regular reinterpretation and inconsistant application of the rules makes me wary and nervous each time I come back.

The rules have always been applied inconsistently, but the general trend was flat for many years. I think a certain amount of negative public opinion and resentment has been building since '97, when the Thais wouldn't face the fact that their own economic policy (or lack thereof) precipitated the currency crash. Having to accept IMF bailout, and some externally imposed restrictions was not popular, with people calling the IMF, "International Mother and Father", and culminating with Thaksin (" The UN is not my father"), and the rise of the jingoisticly named Thai Rak Thai party.

Since then, various governments have whipped up distrust of foreigners whenever their failures needed cover. Public opinion wavered accordingly, and so did enforcement of existing immigration law, as well as a few draconian adventures into new ones (remember 90 days in any 180 day period?). Still, the trend was only slightly toward tightening, and Immigration pretty much followed public sentiment, some better and some worse, but on average, manageable.

At this point, it bears mentioning that, very often, a few baht was needed to get things done at Immigration. In Nong Khai, for instance, one of the IOs had cookies for sale, and a few baht got you something to munch on, and your passport stamped...

As petty corruption came under scrutiny, especially after the 2006 coup, Immigration officers came under a lot of pressure, and foreigners numbers were increasing. It was no longer as easy to make extra cash by extorting visa applicants. This was a huge source of resentment, and contributes to the unpleasantness and lack of service that many experience. The agents, with their stacks of passports, and, more importantly, their brown envelopes, are still welcomed, and treated well...

So, the trend of public opinion, and that of Immigration, which follows it, has been gradually, but steadily becoming anti-foreigner. The trend, since the junta took power, however, is more like the end of a hockey stick.

The petulance at the actions against human trafficking, air worthiness, etc., is demonstrable, and the public is palpably resentful at being subjected to what they see as outside interference. The refusal of the NASA monitoring station, the lagging on Cobra Gold and the shift toward China are all related to this trend. It's not surprising, therefore, that petty bureaucrats feel justified in making things harder for Western residents. The placing of the onus for getting a TM30 done, which is the landlord's responsibility, on the applicant, is just one example.

The enforcement of these laws was always reserved for bad actors, and used effectively to get rid of them, if need be. Now, someone who wants to use Thailand as a base to explore SEA has to live in fear that he will be refused entry upon encountering an IO who had a bad day. In the past, even a bad IO wouldn't say much more than, "Isn't it about time you went home?" And maybe hint around for a purple note...

All this is not to say that foreigners don't cause many of their own problems. The internet has made it possible for the most clueless to make their way to Thailand, and behave accordingly. And turning Chiang Mai into a giant geriatric intensive care unit has not gone unnoticed. No offense to the many lovely retirees there, of course.

Before all that, many people chose Thailand for the freedom and adventure, and the easy-going life there. While there are still ways to live that life, increasingly, the desperate refugees from Western society have taken over, determined to infect the first place with their desperation. Words like, "appropriate visa", " genuine reason to be in Thailand", etc., have replaced the live-and-let-live spirit that used to exist. Now, it's all about making it like whatever miserable hole they came from - more laws, more penalties, kick out those perceived as only in Thailand for fun, etc., etc.

Particularly galling is these desperate bastards attempting to speak on behalf of the Thai people and government, as if they have any insight. Telling you whether or not you're a 'genuine tourist'? Bullshit.

So, yes, it's getting harder to stay in Thailand, if only for having to suffer these types.

Good day.

Interesting and accurate analysis. Well done!

[elviajero]

Your survey is too general and the answer given will depend on whether the person fits the immigration system or doesn't.

For anyone that qualifies for renewable long term extensions of stay, or multi entry visas, it's easy. The increasing paperwork/home visits can be a pain, but that's down to increased fraud and changing foreigner habits rather than a move by immigration to make it harder to stay.

For those that don't qualify it is getting harder to stay long term on visa exempt entry, tourist visas and ED visas or any visa/extension not designed for long stay. A definite move by immigration to make it harder and cut numbers. This has been ongoing for the past 10 years and is due to the increase in foreigners wanting to stay here long term that don't qualify, and illegal workers.

Edited January 31, 2016 by elviajero

[sawadee1947]

It's easy as that: show my passport, fill in a form, show my pension statement....that's it. So it's all the same as before. No hassle, no sweat.....Another year with a visa...

[ratcatcher]

Your survey is too general and the answer given will depend on whether the person fits the immigration system or doesn't.

For anyone that qualifies for renewable long term extensions of stay, or multi entry visas, it's easy. The increasing paperwork/home visits can be a pain, but that's down to increased fraud and changing foreigner habits rather than a move by immigration to make it harder to stay.

For those that don't qualify it is getting harder to stay long term on visa exempt entry, tourist visas and ED visas or any visa/extension not designed for long stay. A definite move by immigration to make it harder and cut numbers. This has been ongoing for the past 10 years and is due to the increase in foreigners wanting to stay here long term that don't qualify, and illegal workers.

It is always amazing to me to read topics like this and then get back to the Thailand News forum and read on a regular basis how awful Thailand is and how often it is referred to as a third world country.

It would be nice if these muppets posting these comments could explain to me why thousands of supposedly intelligent, financially stable, foreigners choose to make this third world country their home as retirees whether with a Thai wife or not.

I somewhat sympathize with people who have to get up at 0400 in order to get a seat or ticket at Chiang Mai and other heavily farang oriented offices. I am fortunate to live in a rural area of Phichit and use the Immigration in P'Lok. With all the required paperwork in order and a tidy appearance and pleasant attitude, the process is fairly straightforward and painless.

I am sure some people in similar situations might agree?

[ratcatcher]

It's easy as that: show my passport, fill in a form, show my pension statement....that's it. So it's all the same as before. No hassle, no sweat.....Another year with a visa...

Do you have to leave Thailand to get your new "retirement visa"?