NRSA member believes new charter will remove corruption from Thai society

[thelonius]

I still believe in Santa Clause...

and I believe in a Sanity Clause - but all the time the junta/s are writing/influencing charters in Thailand there's not going to be one of those written in, that's for sure...............

[PatOngo]

Even Genetic Modification would not remove corruption from the greedy, or greed from the corrupt, it's in the DNA. Things WILL NOT change.

[NongKhaiKid]

That's the claim to top all claims and the old fool might actually believe it. With people like this running the show little wonder LoS is stuck in reverse gear.

It doesn't matter how many laws are passed there's still the minor matter of enforcement and that's a non-starter.

IF there's any action taken on corruption it's usually VERY selective and not always to see justice done.

[GinBoy2]

In my mind the biggest impediment to ending corruption is the judiciary. The BIB are an easy target, but thats like focusing on the tip of the iceberg, if 'justice' and thats a moving target in this country, isn't enforced equally, then it doesn't matter what anyone writes in yet another constitution, for the monied and connected elite things things go on just as before.

The judiciary is a patronage and bought occupation, or maybe hobby here. The recent berserk 'judge' running amok video kinda sums it up.

Until the elites who run this country can get their collectively small minds around the fact that privilege of birth doesn't entitle you to a free pass, then recent history is likely to repeat Ad Nauesem.

Corrupt politician and BIB are the frosting on the real corruption in this country....look to the courts, fix that, everything else will follow

[williamgeorgeallen]

and i believe i am god.

[Caveat Emptor]

That's the claim to top all claims and the old fool might actually believe it. With people like this running the show little wonder LoS is stuck in reverse gear.

It doesn't matter how many laws are passed there's still the minor matter of enforcement and that's a non-starter.

IF there's any action taken on corruption it's usually VERY selective and not always to see justice done.

When I read something ridiculous a Thai official has said it's hard to make my mind up if,

a ) he / she actually believes what they've said,

b ) don't believe a word but expect the public to do so

especially as someone ' important ' has said it,

c ) don't give a damn as long as they see or hear their

name mentioned in the media.

Irrespective, foot in mouth disease and opening mouth without engaging brain is all too common here.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Caveat Emptor

[waitforusalso]

I find some of the posters on these types of topics quite funny

Everyone is aware of the massive corruption problem in this country, so there is nothing to discuss there, and we all know it will continue if nothing is done about it, I get the impression that is what some posters here would prefer - just let it carry on

Many prolific posters are constantly critical of the current governments efforts to try and stamp it out without offering any ideas as to how they themselves would achieve such a monumental enourmous task, perhaps a look at the histories of western democracies might give a clue as to how it was achieved many years ago and evolved to present day, most of them were born from wars - civil wars and a few right minded people that took on the mantle of responsibility, not one of them was a product of an elected government.

It is no secret that the most corrupt in Thailand in the past have been those in power and those with influence

No elected government in Thailand has shown any interest in stamping out corruption - if I am wrong show me an example

So how can it be achieved ? and election lol

It is also evident that some posters here have an interest in keeping things just as they were and have and are still likely benefitting either by direct involvement or being sponsored in some way, either that or you are just plain blind

So how does Thailand deal with this rampant problem - elect another corrupt government without putting reforms and a charter in place that will curb their activities and make it very difficult going forward to steal from the Thai people and make it costly if they do - I don't think so.

I don't find your post amusing at all. I find it astounding that posters like yourself can't see the connection between the never ending cycle of coups & constitution rewrites, and the situation the country finds themselves in. Face the facts; the reason for the coups has got nothing to do with corruption & everything to do with maintaining the status quo in Thailand. Ask yourself, 18 or so coups & what has been the effect on corruption?

And what to do about it you ask? Well there is something that has never been tried in Thailand! An extended period of democracy with no intervention by the army. Let governments complete their terms and let the people themselves decide if they are too corrupt or their policies are wasting too much money. Complete freedom of expression & of the media will allow people the information they need to make the decisions. It won't be perfect & there will be some rocky times, but it can't be worse than the dismal record of the army's intervention into politics.

[tuanku]

Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations that've long since bought and paid for, the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pocket, and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and the information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them.

― George Carlin

[smedly]

That's the claim to top all claims and the old fool might actually believe it. With people like this running the show little wonder LoS is stuck in reverse gear.

It doesn't matter how many laws are passed there's still the minor matter of enforcement and that's a non-starter.

IF there's any action taken on corruption it's usually VERY selective and not always to see justice done.

When I read something ridiculous a Thai official has said it's hard to make my mind up if,

a ) he / she actually believes what they've said,

b ) don't believe a word but expect the public to do so

especially as someone ' important ' has said it,

c ) don't give a damn as long as they see or hear their

name mentioned in the media.

Irrespective, foot in mouth disease and opening mouth without engaging brain is all too common here.

indeed

[klauskunkel]

He pointed out that corrupt politicians or those seeking to take advantage of the people will be “nervous” when they actually see the draft while adding that the new charter opens doors for honest people to serve this country.

How cleverly this National Steerer preempts criticism of the new charter...

[smedly]

I find some of the posters on these types of topics quite funny

Everyone is aware of the massive corruption problem in this country, so there is nothing to discuss there, and we all know it will continue if nothing is done about it, I get the impression that is what some posters here would prefer - just let it carry on

Many prolific posters are constantly critical of the current governments efforts to try and stamp it out without offering any ideas as to how they themselves would achieve such a monumental enourmous task, perhaps a look at the histories of western democracies might give a clue as to how it was achieved many years ago and evolved to present day, most of them were born from wars - civil wars and a few right minded people that took on the mantle of responsibility, not one of them was a product of an elected government.

It is no secret that the most corrupt in Thailand in the past have been those in power and those with influence

No elected government in Thailand has shown any interest in stamping out corruption - if I am wrong show me an example

So how can it be achieved ? and election lol

It is also evident that some posters here have an interest in keeping things just as they were and have and are still likely benefitting either by direct involvement or being sponsored in some way, either that or you are just plain blind

So how does Thailand deal with this rampant problem - elect another corrupt government without putting reforms and a charter in place that will curb their activities and make it very difficult going forward to steal from the Thai people and make it costly if they do - I don't think so.

I don't find your post amusing at all. I find it astounding that posters like yourself can't see the connection between the never ending cycle of coups & constitution rewrites, and the situation the country finds themselves in. Face the facts; the reason for the coups has got nothing to do with corruption & everything to do with maintaining the status quo in Thailand. Ask yourself, 18 or so coups & what has been the effect on corruption?

And what to do about it you ask? Well there is something that has never been tried in Thailand! An extended period of democracy with no intervention by the army. Let governments complete their terms and let the people themselves decide if they are too corrupt or their policies are wasting too much money. Complete freedom of expression & of the media will allow people the information they need to make the decisions. It won't be perfect & there will be some rocky times, but it can't be worse than the dismal record of the army's intervention into politics.

are you really trying to educate me lol

an extended period of democracy you say, perhaps the very large protests in Bangkok and the efforts by certain people to murder them (including children) might have something to do with why the military had to step in again, and also while the government refused to enable the police to do anything about it

Go read about why millions of people took to the streets - I'll give you a head start - lies - power abuse - massive corruption - pure evil

you have a very short and selective memory

[SABloke]

But it's not only politicians that are corrupt. Good luck on that.

correct but I believe this charter attempts to deal with them all both in the public and private sectors including local authorities, well all know who is not going to like it - those that have been milking the Thai people for years and want to continue

Since corruption is already a criminal offence your point is moot. What the constitution says has no real world application. Unless this country gets a police force, nothing will ever change.

[jayboy]

Go read about why millions of people took to the streets - I'll give you a head start - lies - power abuse - massive corruption - pure evil

you have a very short and selective memory

Speaking of selective memories and lies, can you supply one authoritative reference for millions of people taking to the streets?

[chickenrunCM]

are you really trying to educate me lol

an extended period of democracy you say, perhaps the very large protests in Bangkok and the efforts by certain people to murder them (including children) might have something to do with why the military had to step in again, and also while the government refused to enable the police to do anything about it

Go read about why millions of people took to the streets - I'll give you a head start - lies - power abuse - massive corruption - pure evil

you have a very short and selective memory

You really mean the b*llsh*t what you are writing? because of demonstration the military can make a coup?

because 20 people are dead?

In Thailand there are every day 70 dead people in traffic accidents (10x more than in Germany ) and nobody cares,

everybody knows that the military is the most corrupt organisation in Thailand, and they showed it in the last case of their Hua Hin Park, so 15 Generals in the Goverment let them fight against corruption? This is only about to save power and control, because in an election they would never win. So they use their weapons, this is all and the trues

[Ks45672]

Guy in the picture is smiling like he's just been given a brown envelope...

Corruption will soon be over, it's true ... For most people his age everything will soon be over

[lvr181]

As a member of the flat earth society, I have to agree with Wanchai Sornsiri.

Edited January 31, 2016 by lvr181

[gandalf12]

There are, or so we are led to believe, 67 million people in Thailand which leads to 67 million forms of democracy.

[DrTuner]

Meh. There are only a few things that can remove corruption from Thai society and all of them mean removing the Thai society.

[Cynical Sailor]

In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. Oh, and delayed elections in Thailand.

[tuanku]

It is supposed that power corrupts,' the caterpillar said in a voice as untroubled as time itself. "yet the powerful are often corrupt before they are powerful. In fact, I find that they too often become powerful by being corrupt. Whether real or perceived, a lack of power can also corrupt.

― Frank Beddor, ArchEnemy

[waitforusalso]

I find some of the posters on these types of topics quite funny

Everyone is aware of the massive corruption problem in this country, so there is nothing to discuss there, and we all know it will continue if nothing is done about it, I get the impression that is what some posters here would prefer - just let it carry on

Many prolific posters are constantly critical of the current governments efforts to try and stamp it out without offering any ideas as to how they themselves would achieve such a monumental enourmous task, perhaps a look at the histories of western democracies might give a clue as to how it was achieved many years ago and evolved to present day, most of them were born from wars - civil wars and a few right minded people that took on the mantle of responsibility, not one of them was a product of an elected government.

It is no secret that the most corrupt in Thailand in the past have been those in power and those with influence

No elected government in Thailand has shown any interest in stamping out corruption - if I am wrong show me an example

So how can it be achieved ? and election lol

It is also evident that some posters here have an interest in keeping things just as they were and have and are still likely benefitting either by direct involvement or being sponsored in some way, either that or you are just plain blind

So how does Thailand deal with this rampant problem - elect another corrupt government without putting reforms and a charter in place that will curb their activities and make it very difficult going forward to steal from the Thai people and make it costly if they do - I don't think so.

I don't find your post amusing at all. I find it astounding that posters like yourself can't see the connection between the never ending cycle of coups & constitution rewrites, and the situation the country finds themselves in. Face the facts; the reason for the coups has got nothing to do with corruption & everything to do with maintaining the status quo in Thailand. Ask yourself, 18 or so coups & what has been the effect on corruption?

And what to do about it you ask? Well there is something that has never been tried in Thailand! An extended period of democracy with no intervention by the army. Let governments complete their terms and let the people themselves decide if they are too corrupt or their policies are wasting too much money. Complete freedom of expression & of the media will allow people the information they need to make the decisions. It won't be perfect & there will be some rocky times, but it can't be worse than the dismal record of the army's intervention into politics.

are you really trying to educate me lol

an extended period of democracy you say, perhaps the very large protests in Bangkok and the efforts by certain people to murder them (including children) might have something to do with why the military had to step in again, and also while the government refused to enable the police to do anything about it

Go read about why millions of people took to the streets - I'll give you a head start - lies - power abuse - massive corruption - pure evil

you have a very short and selective memory

Not sure why that is 'lol' as you certainly do need some educating.

Look back at the previous coups & you will see the same claims time & time again. Some of the speeches given by the Generals are almost identical to Prayuth's. It's the same old tired story, and you have swallowed it hook, line & sinker.

Here are a series of documentaries, each episode covers a different Thai coup.Hopefully you will be able to join the dots.

[phoenixdoglover]

That's the claim to top all claims and the old fool might actually believe it. With people like this running the show little wonder LoS is stuck in reverse gear.

It doesn't matter how many laws are passed there's still the minor matter of enforcement and that's a non-starter.

IF there's any action taken on corruption it's usually VERY selective and not always to see justice done.

When I read something ridiculous a Thai official has said it's hard to make my mind up if,

a ) he / she actually believes what they've said,

b ) don't believe a word but expect the public to do so

especially as someone ' important ' has said it,

c ) don't give a damn as long as they see or hear their

name mentioned in the media.

Irrespective, foot in mouth disease and opening mouth without engaging brain is all too common here.

The news media is complicit. They give the bozos a non-critical platform.

[tbthailand]

he is either lying and knows it or he proves that the people writing the charter are extraordinarily dimwitted.

[PeVee1st]

555555 April 1 already???

[rubl]

The constitution

plus

education, education, education

plus

frequent one minute clips showing the negative effects of corruption

In the West government use such clips to 'guide' the behavior of the population. Very effective with 'wearing seat belt', 'be careful with fireworks' (who needs ten fingers when you have a calculator?). Somewhat less effective with anti-smoking, but soon a taxed out of existence group (or dying off on cancer).

Edited January 31, 2016 by rubl

[phoenixdoglover]

The constitution

plus

education, education, education

plus

frequent one minute clips showing the negative effects of corruption

In the West government use such clips to 'guide' the behavior of the population. Very effective with 'wearing seat belt', 'be careful with fireworks' (who needs ten fingers when you have a calculator?). Somewhat less effective with anti-smoking, but soon a taxed out of existence group (or dying off on cancer).

To your list, I would add:

1) A requirement for government entities to publish annual budgets (operating and capital) and monthly expenditures committed and incurred

2) A requirement for all government procurements to be open; and for strict qualifying criteria for justifying a non-competitive procurement

3) A requirement for all open procurements (tenders) to be advertised in at least 3 widely read newspapers; a requirement for the contractor name, address and bid price of all procurements to be published

4) An end to the practice of on-duty police collecting any fines whatsoever; any payment to any on-duty police officer to be considered a bribe, which upon conviction shall result in termination of employment

5) A requirement for all government entities to perform and publish findings of an annual (or biannual) financial audit, conducted by an independent agency that is selected through open tender (normally, I would say a government audit organization, but under current conditions I don't think they are adequately resourced or credible)

All of the above items go directly to monitoring and controlling the money streams. If you don't do that, you are not serious.

[rubl]

The constitution

plus

education, education, education

plus

frequent one minute clips showing the negative effects of corruption

In the West government use such clips to 'guide' the behavior of the population. Very effective with 'wearing seat belt', 'be careful with fireworks' (who needs ten fingers when you have a calculator?). Somewhat less effective with anti-smoking, but soon a taxed out of existence group (or dying off on cancer).

To your list, I would add:

1) A requirement for government entities to publish annual budgets (operating and capital) and monthly expenditures committed and incurred

2) A requirement for all government procurements to be open; and for strict qualifying criteria for justifying a non-competitive procurement

3) A requirement for all open procurements (tenders) to be advertised in at least 3 widely read newspapers; a requirement for the contractor name, address and bid price of all procurements to be published

4) An end to the practice of on-duty police collecting any fines whatsoever; any payment to any on-duty police officer to be considered a bribe, which upon conviction shall result in termination of employment

5) A requirement for all government entities to perform and publish findings of an annual (or biannual) financial audit, conducted by an independent agency that is selected through open tender (normally, I would say a government audit organization, but under current conditions I don't think they are adequately resourced or credible)

All of the above items go directly to monitoring and controlling the money streams. If you don't do that, you are not serious.

So much to do and so little time.

Mind you for the last two National Budget years (fiscal 2015, new fiscal 2016) the government seems to have done a major step in the right direction. Here the link for 2016, most in Thai (of course), but an elaborate 133 page 'in brief' in English. Careful, 30 MB!)

http://www.bb.go.th/budget_book/e-Book2559/

BTW your point 5 would probably be illegal even in your home country.

[phoenixdoglover]

The constitution

plus

education, education, education

plus

frequent one minute clips showing the negative effects of corruption

In the West government use such clips to 'guide' the behavior of the population. Very effective with 'wearing seat belt', 'be careful with fireworks' (who needs ten fingers when you have a calculator?). Somewhat less effective with anti-smoking, but soon a taxed out of existence group (or dying off on cancer).

To your list, I would add:

1) A requirement for government entities to publish annual budgets (operating and capital) and monthly expenditures committed and incurred

2) A requirement for all government procurements to be open; and for strict qualifying criteria for justifying a non-competitive procurement

3) A requirement for all open procurements (tenders) to be advertised in at least 3 widely read newspapers; a requirement for the contractor name, address and bid price of all procurements to be published

4) An end to the practice of on-duty police collecting any fines whatsoever; any payment to any on-duty police officer to be considered a bribe, which upon conviction shall result in termination of employment

5) A requirement for all government entities to perform and publish findings of an annual (or biannual) financial audit, conducted by an independent agency that is selected through open tender (normally, I would say a government audit organization, but under current conditions I don't think they are adequately resourced or credible)

All of the above items go directly to monitoring and controlling the money streams. If you don't do that, you are not serious.

So much to do and so little time.

Mind you for the last two National Budget years (fiscal 2015, new fiscal 2016) the government seems to have done a major step in the right direction. Here the link for 2016, most in Thai (of course), but an elaborate 133 page 'in brief' in English. Careful, 30 MB!)

http://www.bb.go.th/budget_book/e-Book2559/

BTW your point 5 would probably be illegal even in your home country.

Regarding point 5, my direct experience in the US is that certain authorities do indeed use independent auditors, and are required to publish the auditors findings. Not sure what you are thinking is illegal.

[rubl]

The constitution

plus

education, education, education

plus

frequent one minute clips showing the negative effects of corruption

In the West government use such clips to 'guide' the behavior of the population. Very effective with 'wearing seat belt', 'be careful with fireworks' (who needs ten fingers when you have a calculator?). Somewhat less effective with anti-smoking, but soon a taxed out of existence group (or dying off on cancer).

To your list, I would add:

1) A requirement for government entities to publish annual budgets (operating and capital) and monthly expenditures committed and incurred

2) A requirement for all government procurements to be open; and for strict qualifying criteria for justifying a non-competitive procurement

3) A requirement for all open procurements (tenders) to be advertised in at least 3 widely read newspapers; a requirement for the contractor name, address and bid price of all procurements to be published

4) An end to the practice of on-duty police collecting any fines whatsoever; any payment to any on-duty police officer to be considered a bribe, which upon conviction shall result in termination of employment

5) A requirement for all government entities to perform and publish findings of an annual (or biannual) financial audit, conducted by an independent agency that is selected through open tender (normally, I would say a government audit organization, but under current conditions I don't think they are adequately resourced or credible)

All of the above items go directly to monitoring and controlling the money streams. If you don't do that, you are not serious.

So much to do and so little time.

Mind you for the last two National Budget years (fiscal 2015, new fiscal 2016) the government seems to have done a major step in the right direction. Here the link for 2016, most in Thai (of course), but an elaborate 133 page 'in brief' in English. Careful, 30 MB!)

http://www.bb.go.th/budget_book/e-Book2559/

BTW your point 5 would probably be illegal even in your home country.

Regarding point 5, my direct experience in the US is that certain authorities do indeed use independent auditors, and are required to publish the auditors findings. Not sure what you are thinking is illegal.

The reason you give for proposing independent 'agencies' is also valid for government sponsored agencies. Only the charter mandated agencies should be 'clean' independent agencies.

BTW agencies suggests more than just 'independent auditors'.

As for how much information may be provided to independent auditors depends on the nature of the information. As I understand it some info is labeled 'Top Secret' at times to the point that even Senate Commissions have a problem getting at it.

Anyway, we seem to be doing some steps in the right direction but with a lot still to be done. Now as democratically elected governments didn't do a bloody thing, may be we need this current government to stay a wee bit longer ? Just to satisfy all those asking for more measures ?

[ldiablo]

I still believe in Santa Clause...

Apparently so do the members of the NLSA.