Overstay for 3 years but flying out during last week of April

[twwy123]

If 70 million comparisons take 27 minutes, then 70,000 comparisons could be done in 1.62 seconds.

Are you just doing simple division here? If so, your next Google search should take a few years to return results.

Not all algorithms are O(n), with time directly proportional to the number of inputs. Some are faster (Google web search), some are slower (finding optimal path between cities). Are you familiar with fingerprint search algorithms and their computational complexity characteristics?

[novo58]

@ Maestro......................

I am an Australian and I have never had fingerprints taken in relation to a passport , or passport application. So I dont know how fingerprints could possibly be stored on my passport chip.

On my last trip back to OZ ( late last year).............I did not encounter an immigration officer as entry ( and passport verification) was done by an automated gate system ---I imagine using facial recognition technology.

[ubonjoe]

Don't get too excited about fingerprinting. The FBI's Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) takes 27 minutes to search 70 million fingerprints and identify potential matches.

The main use of fingerprinting at borders is for identification purposes, not for matching individual fingerprints to a fingerprint database. The fingerprints collected may well be matched at some later date to identify criminals entering the country etc but current technology would not permit this to take place in real time at the point of entry.

If you have ever seen a fingerprint search on CSI you get the idea.

The simplest use of fingerprint matching at the border entry point would probably be to match the print or prints taken at the border with those on the passport chip (although somebody wrote in another topic that no fingerprints are stored on his chip)

Of course, this would only be confirmation that the person presenting the passport is the same as the person to whom the passport was issued and would not reveal details of a previous passport used by the same person.

No fingerprints are on the chip in my passport. None were done when I applied for it.

I think for most passports it is a match up of the photo and the other printed info that has to match.

[Maestro]

The inclusion of digital images of fingerprints on the chip seems to be optional. Switzerland and some other countries do it. As for Australia (from Wikipedia):

Australia[edit]

See also: Australian passport

The Australian biometric passport was introduced in October 2005. The microchip contains the same personal information that is on the colour photo page of the ePassport, including a digitized photograph. A standard (35-Visa Pages) adult passport (>18 years) is A$250 valid for 10 years; for children, the fee is A$125 valid for 5 years. A Frequent traveler (67-Visa Pages) adult passport (>18 years) is A$376 valid for 10 years; for children, the fee is A$188 valid for 5 years.^[64]SmartGates have been installed in Australian airports to allow Australian ePassport holders and ePassport holders of several other countries to clear immigration controls more rapidly, and facial recognition technology has been installed at immigration gates.^[65]

Switzerland[edit]

See also: Swiss passport

The Swiss biometric passport has been available since 4 September 2006. By a narrow majority of 50.14%, Swiss voters decided in May 2009 to accept the introduction of a biometric passport.^[106] Since 1 March 2010, all issued passports are biometric, containing a photograph and two fingerprints recorded electronically.^[107] The costs are CHF 140.00 for adults and CHF 60.00 for children (−18 years old).^[108]

I got it now: fingerprints on the chip are mandatory for the Schengen area countries at present. It is apparently not part of the ICAO standard.

[mngmn]

Don't get too excited about fingerprinting. The FBI's Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) takes 27 minutes to search 70 million fingerprints and identify potential matches.

The main use of fingerprinting at borders is for identification purposes, not for matching individual fingerprints to a fingerprint database. The fingerprints collected may well be matched at some later date to identify criminals entering the country etc but current technology would not permit this to take place in real time at the point of entry.

If you have ever seen a fingerprint search on CSI you get the idea.

The simplest use of fingerprint matching at the border entry point would probably be to match the print or prints taken at the border with those on the passport chip (although somebody wrote in another topic that no fingerprints are stored on his chip)

Of course, this would only be confirmation that the person presenting the passport is the same as the person to whom the passport was issued and would not reveal details of a previous passport used by the same person.

No fingerprints are on the chip in my passport. None were done when I applied for it.

I think for most passports it is a match up of the photo and the other printed info that has to match.

So is it remotely possible that some people in the Government and Immigration Department see finger printing as a universal panacea without fully understanding the capabilities of the technology? Hence the scary pronouncements about what they believe they will be able to achieve using a few finger print scanners installed at airports.

The best one could hope for, would be verification that the person presenting a passport was the same person who presented it every other time they entered the country by matching their fingerprints against the ones stored in the database. Note that this is NOT the same as searching for their fingerprint in a large database of everyone's fingerprints.

In fact, any matching of fingerprints would need to performed as a "back office" function long after the person had entered the country. To give an idea of the scale of such an undertaking, in 2010 the FBI Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System completed 61 million searches. Compare this with 25 million visitors a year requiring 25 million searches. About half the size of the FBI's operation right?

From the perspective of terrorism and crime a "back office" search would still be worthwhile as it could alert authorities to the presence of undesirable elements in the country. This is always assuming the investment is considered worthwhile and that a database of "undesirables" is available.

[berybert]

1.No chance of that.

2. He will be banned from entering. Once on overstay having proof of an injury will do no good because it is possible to get extensions based upon illness or injury.

3. I don't think there will be any exceptions.

Having a new passport will not hide the banning. They will do a name and date of birth search that will reveal the banning.

My only suggestion is that he should leave and then return prior to March 20th.

Thank you all for your valuable suggestions. Just out of curiosity, I want to know when in UK if changes his name legally and get new passport on new name and when he enters bangkok airport, can the immigration at bangkok airport will be able to trace his record? (my pologies if my question is not accurate)

That could be done but their is always a possibility of getting caught later.

Would this be a crazy thing to do. Taking into account the name on his marriage license will be different from that on his passport ?

[uptheos]

1.No chance of that.

2. He will be banned from entering. Once on overstay having proof of an injury will do no good because it is possible to get extensions based upon illness or injury.

3. I don't think there will be any exceptions.

Having a new passport will not hide the banning. They will do a name and date of birth search that will reveal the banning.

My only suggestion is that he should leave and then return prior to March 20th.

Thank you all for your valuable suggestions. Just out of curiosity, I want to know when in UK if changes his name legally and get new passport on new name and when he enters bangkok airport, can the immigration at bangkok airport will be able to trace his record? (my pologies if my question is not accurate)

That could be done but their is always a possibility of getting caught later.

I would think it would also depend on the country, if you legally change your name and get a new passport before renewal time it may very well be recorded on the first page of the new passport. I think that would be a question for the passport office of the respective country.

There is still over 6 weeks before March 20th, I would think that it would be more than enough time to get a new passport (assuming you have the documents necessary for the application - like birth certificate etc.). Canada - it now takes 15 business days (though officially it is up to 20 business days).

They have delayed things like this before -- even the SIM registration thing was delayed -- but I would bet money on it it is close to 100% that it will go into force on March 20th.... The only thing I am not sure about is if this will be treated as a way to make more money (i.e. you have overstayed by 90 days but we will not blacklist you if you make it worth our while).

UK Change his name to Spike Milligan, his previous name won't be on it.

[chrisinth]

Don't get too excited about fingerprinting. The FBI's Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) takes 27 minutes to search 70 million fingerprints and identify potential matches.

The main use of fingerprinting at borders is for identification purposes, not for matching individual fingerprints to a fingerprint database. The fingerprints collected may well be matched at some later date to identify criminals entering the country etc but current technology would not permit this to take place in real time at the point of entry.

If you have ever seen a fingerprint search on CSI you get the idea.

The simplest use of fingerprint matching at the border entry point would probably be to match the print or prints taken at the border with those on the passport chip (although somebody wrote in another topic that no fingerprints are stored on his chip)

Of course, this would only be confirmation that the person presenting the passport is the same as the person to whom the passport was issued and would not reveal details of a previous passport used by the same person.

On my British passport, i have never given fingerprints to them so i would doubt any would be recorded on the chip.

[BritTim]

So is it remotely possible that some people in the Government and Immigration Department see finger printing as a universal panacea without fully understanding the capabilities of the technology? Hence the scary pronouncements about what they believe they will be able to achieve using a few finger print scanners installed at airports.

The best one could hope for, would be verification that the person presenting a passport was the same person who presented it every other time they entered the country by matching their fingerprints against the ones stored in the database. Note that this is NOT the same as searching for their fingerprint in a large database of everyone's fingerprints.

In fact, any matching of fingerprints would need to performed as a "back office" function long after the person had entered the country. To give an idea of the scale of such an undertaking, in 2010 the FBI Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System completed 61 million searches. Compare this with 25 million visitors a year requiring 25 million searches. About half the size of the FBI's operation right?

From the perspective of terrorism and crime a "back office" search would still be worthwhile as it could alert authorities to the presence of undesirable elements in the country. This is always assuming the investment is considered worthwhile and that a database of "undesirables" is available.

The FBI searches are against a huge database (around 75 million individuals iirc). It is time consuming because of the immense scale. As a counter example, I have frequently used door access security systems that permit access based on me swiping my index finger on a fingerprint reader. Typically, these systems contains only a couple of hundred separate identities and the decision to grant or deny access is near instantaneous. This is just using the power of a regular PC.

To check the fingerprints of incoming passengers against those on Thailand's blacklist would fall somewhere between the extremes given above. Today, I would expect the size of the blacklist to be under 10,000 (corrections welcome) though I grant that this will probably increase substantially. Checking the fingerprints of an arriving passenger against a database of that scale is perfectly feasible using a cheap but powerful server in a few seconds.

[OJAS]

1.No chance of that.

2. He will be banned from entering. Once on overstay having proof of an injury will do no good because it is possible to get extensions based upon illness or injury.

3. I don't think there will be any exceptions.

Having a new passport will not hide the banning. They will do a name and date of birth search that will reveal the banning.

My only suggestion is that he should leave and then return prior to March 20th.

Thank you all for your valuable suggestions. Just out of curiosity, I want to know when in UK if changes his name legally and get new passport on new name and when he enters bangkok airport, can the immigration at bangkok airport will be able to trace his record? (my pologies if my question is not accurate)

That could be done but their is always a possibility of getting caught later.

Would this be a crazy thing to do. Taking into account the name on his marriage license will be different from that on his passport ?

In any case he could only change his name by first making a deed poll:

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll

[mngmn]

So is it remotely possible that some people in the Government and Immigration Department see finger printing as a universal panacea without fully understanding the capabilities of the technology? Hence the scary pronouncements about what they believe they will be able to achieve using a few finger print scanners installed at airports.

The best one could hope for, would be verification that the person presenting a passport was the same person who presented it every other time they entered the country by matching their fingerprints against the ones stored in the database. Note that this is NOT the same as searching for their fingerprint in a large database of everyone's fingerprints.

In fact, any matching of fingerprints would need to performed as a "back office" function long after the person had entered the country. To give an idea of the scale of such an undertaking, in 2010 the FBI Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System completed 61 million searches. Compare this with 25 million visitors a year requiring 25 million searches. About half the size of the FBI's operation right?

From the perspective of terrorism and crime a "back office" search would still be worthwhile as it could alert authorities to the presence of undesirable elements in the country. This is always assuming the investment is considered worthwhile and that a database of "undesirables" is available.

The FBI searches are against a huge database (around 75 million individuals iirc). It is time consuming because of the immense scale. As a counter example, I have frequently used door access security systems that permit access based on me swiping my index finger on a fingerprint reader. Typically, these systems contains only a couple of hundred separate identities and the decision to grant or deny access is near instantaneous. This is just using the power of a regular PC.

To check the fingerprints of incoming passengers against those on Thailand's blacklist would fall somewhere between the extremes given above. Today, I would expect the size of the blacklist to be under 10,000 (corrections welcome) though I grant that this will probably increase substantially. Checking the fingerprints of an arriving passenger against a database of that scale is perfectly feasible using a cheap but powerful server in a few seconds.

Yeah I agree, but probably not cost effective just for over stayers so it would make sense to include other "undesirables" either captured by Thai authorities or notified by Interpol etc.

Actually there is a story in Phuket Gazette dated 15th May 2014 quote "The general recognized that scanning fingerprints would not flag any inbound foreigners unless they had a criminal record in Thailand or were wanted by Interpol".

Heaven help any one who gets on that blacklist by mistake

Edited February 10, 2016 by mngmn

[thaibreaker]

Don't get too excited about fingerprinting. The FBI's Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) takes 27 minutes to search 70 million fingerprints and identify potential matches.

The main use of fingerprinting at borders is for identification purposes, not for matching individual fingerprints to a fingerprint database. The fingerprints collected may well be matched at some later date to identify criminals entering the country etc but current technology would not permit this to take place in real time at the point of entry.

If you have ever seen a fingerprint search on CSI you get the idea.

The simplest use of fingerprint matching at the border entry point would probably be to match the print or prints taken at the border with those on the passport chip (although somebody wrote in another topic that no fingerprints are stored on his chip)

Of course, this would only be confirmation that the person presenting the passport is the same as the person to whom the passport was issued and would not reveal details of a previous passport used by the same person.

On my British passport, i have never given fingerprints to them so i would doubt any would be recorded on the chip.

Got my new passport from Norway a few months ago, and yes, a fingerprint was indeed taken.

First time though.

Edited February 10, 2016 by thaibreaker

[Maestro]

Got my new passport from Norway a few months ago, and yes, a fingerprint was indeed taken.

First time though.

For Schengen area countries, fingerprints on the passport chip are now mandatory.

Technical specifications for the new passports have been established by the European Commission.^[27] The specifications are binding for the Schengen agreement parties, i.e. the EU countries, except Ireland and the UK, and three of the four European Free Trade Association countries – Iceland, Norway and Switzerland.^[28] These countries are obliged to implement machine readable facial images in the passports by 28 August 2006, and fingerprints by 29 June 2009.^{[citation needed]}

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport

[peterpan2501]

Go back as soon possible, pay the 20.000 fine for overstay and then have the possibility to come back soon.

Otherwise he will be blocked for many years because of 3 years overstay.