District Chief: Prosecution of Pattaya Bridge Players will continue as planned

[keskeseksa]

Fire this idiot Chakorn

[Psychic]

Article in The Nation....high level army official performed the closing ceremonies in Bangkok, but a provincial official is still pressing on with his own skewed viewpoint.

Arrest of foreign bridge players in Pattaya 'tarnished Thailands image'

PREECHACHAN WIRIYANUPAPPONG

THE SUNDAY NATION February 14, 2016 1:00 am

THE recent raid on an expatriate bridge club after an allegation of "gambling" in Pattaya has raised eyebrows in a country where government efforts have been focused on promoting tourism and sport.

Early this month 50 police and military personnel stormed an upstairs room in the infamous beach resort of Pattaya. But rather than a den of iniquity, they found members of the Jomtien and Pattaya Bridge Club, which comprises foreign retirees. Officers nevertheless arrested all 32 people, 26 of them men. The club meets three times a week in a room above a restaurant, according to the Pattaya One website.

However, since no money changed hands, the players - mainly British with some Dutch and Scandinavian nationals, including a 84-year-old Dutch woman - were arrested under a Thai law from 1935 that says no one can possess more than 120 playing cards at a time.

Police seized cards, computers and a book of bridge results as "evidence". Another alleged offence related to the fact that the cards did not have an official government seal on the boxes.

The raid quickly became the talk of the town. Many people have voiced concern over what they say was the lack of evidence to warrant arresting the players, and the fact that bridge players is considered a sport - not gambling.

Shortly after, social media outlets were awash with negative comments. Some people said the raid had tarnished the image of the country, particularly at a time when the government is promoting tourism and sport.

On pantip.com, a popular Thai-language discussion forum, the subject was heavily discussed. A varsity student under the pseudonym "Neung Van Der Waals", who has been a bridge player for five years, created a forum post on the website that read: "Bridge is not gambling. A case study for the arrest of farangs playing bridge in Pattaya".

He said: "I can't believe this is happening in Thailand. It has really tarnished the tourism atmosphere in our country. Bridge, like the other mind sports such as chess and Go, is based on rules and competition like other sports and is available to older people, to whom it has brought a sense of inclusion and community.

"Bridge is a popular card game recognised as a sport. Since cards are necessarily required for bridge, therefore it's reasonable to have cards when playing bridge. This is clearly legal in line with the Gambling Act in 1935."

He explained that a book was used to record scores in bridge and not to record money. A calculator-like device seized in the raid was called a "bridgemate" and was used to record results of each round, he said.

To make it clear that playing bridge is not gambling, photos of people playing the game were cut from local newspapers and displayed on pantip.com forum with the caption: "Thailand hosted the 37th Asean Bridge Club Championships at Montien Hotel Bangkok last December.

Thailand captured gold medals in the senior team and the junior team events. General Yuthasak Sasiprapha, president of the Olympic Committee of Thailand, presided over the closing ceremony and congratulated the gold winners on their success on the same occasion."

If playing bridge is gambling, such a competition could not be held here. Further, the Thailand University Bridge Club was established to promote playing bridge at all varsities and no activity has been reported concerning gambling.

However, those arrested in Pattaya were held for 12 hours before being bailed for Bt5,000 each.

But none were charged after bridge league president Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich, a civic activist who is also a member of Thailand's most prominent banking family, stepped in to provide further information on bridge and how it is played for points and not money.

Aside from being played among local universities and contested at the SEA Games and Asian Games, bridge, like chess, could be included in the 2020 Olympics. A decision on that is expected to be made next year.

There seems to be no clear-cut answer on whether bridge is sport, as different governing bodies have different views. Sport England, for example, said a sport needs more exertion than "sitting at home reading a book".

[Benmart]

More image disaster in the making.

[hawker9000]

More image disaster in the making.

They have a genius for it, don't they? Foot doctors must be in great demand here.

[Norrad]

Any game that involves playing cards is taking a risk, especially when played in groups. They knew the risks.

First question a lawyer would ask you, how would they have known the risk. You foolish comment is almost as foolish as the police prosecuting these people. The only thing the police have is an act forbidding any SINGLE person having more than 120 cards... in this game, NO SINGLE PERSON holds that many cards. We didn't see the police raid the Bridge championships, that were held in Thailand. I think you need to THINK before you post, Thailand has enough fools without you adding to it.

So, let me get this straight in simple terms. Ignorance of the law is no excuse (something you may have heard)!

A simple Google search will show you that any organized card game is taking a chance. It might not bring up an exact example of Bridge, but it surely would show you that it's murky water.

Either way, neither party is right or wrong here. Murky water is just as it sounds, difficult for both parties to see through. The court will decide.

[Basil B]

The District Chef seems to be the one who will not let it go...

Is he Elected? Appointed? or did he Inherit the job? does seem to be a sandwich or two short of a full picnic.

Basil, your comment gives belief that you do not live in Thailand, these positions are "bought" or you have friends/family in higher, powerful positions.

Correct I do not, and my question was a genuine one as I am trying to work out why he has not been transferred to the position of chief of an uninhabited island...

[Psychic]

Any game that involves playing cards is taking a risk, especially when played in groups. They knew the risks.

First question a lawyer would ask you, how would they have known the risk. You foolish comment is almost as foolish as the police prosecuting these people. The only thing the police have is an act forbidding any SINGLE person having more than 120 cards... in this game, NO SINGLE PERSON holds that many cards. We didn't see the police raid the Bridge championships, that were held in Thailand. I think you need to THINK before you post, Thailand has enough fools without you adding to it.

So, let me get this straight in simple terms. Ignorance of the law is no excuse (something you may have heard)!

A simple Google search will show you that any organized card game is taking a chance. It might not bring up an exact example of Bridge, but it surely would show you that it's murky water.

Either way, neither party is right or wrong here. Murky water is just as it sounds, difficult for both parties to see through. The court will decide.

And after you've been holding games for 22 years, been associated with the Thai national bridge league and had been visited and cleared by the local police numerous times you should suddenly have misgivings that you're doing something illegal?

In even simpler terms, as the Thai Bridge League has stated, the Ministry of the Interior has recognised that duplicate bridge is not illegal and hasn't been since 1960.

[novanova]

So, let me get this straight in simple terms. Ignorance of the law is no excuse (something you may have heard)!

A simple Google search will show you that any organized card game is taking a chance. It might not bring up an exact example of Bridge, but it surely would show you that it's murky water.

Either way, neither party is right or wrong here. Murky water is just as it sounds, difficult for both parties to see through. The court will decide.

------------------------------

A simple Google search will tell you that:

- Thailand first played in a World bridge championship in 1964 (open to many) then 1966 and 1967 (as winner of the Far East zone)

- There are large tournaments held annually in BKK for many years that are attended by many players from overseas

- The club in Pattaya has been playing frequent sessions since 1994

Pick one of the following:

- All the above was illegal or had illegal origins

OR

- The local DOPA boss is a bozo

[onemorechang]

Surely this Provincial Official must have several layers of Superiors above him at the National level?

I find it difficult to understand why one of them has not stepped in a called a halt to this nonsense.

Patrick

Yes he will have.

Just maybe, they are leaving him out to dry. a little longer.

Then off to a different post a bit lower and far away, from the heat.

To all the bridge players of this, nonsense.

i hope all this will go away soon for you all.

Best of luck to you all.

onemorechang.

[tropo]

If I'd seen this nonsense before I came to Thailand I doubt I would have ever come. I wonder what kind of damage this is doing to the tourism industry.

[Basil B]

If I'd seen this nonsense before I came to Thailand I doubt I would have ever come. I wonder what kind of damage this is doing to the tourism industry.

Not a lot... very few people come to Thailand to play bridge.

Start locking people up because they do not have their passport on them while swimming, playing connect at a beer bar that has more than 3 sets under the counter, having one or more unregistered guests in their room, being in a bar that does not have the correct licence, the list could be endless... and if these silly people decided to target the two week Vacationer's instead of the long term residents then it would affect the tourism industry.

[p_brownstone]

A graceful solution to this farce would be for the District Officer to drop all "charges" against the Bridge players and arrest the informant on the grounds of giving false information and wasting the time of dozens of Government Officials (plus whatever other offences he could dream up).

Justice served in both the true and poetic sense.

Won't happen of course.

Patrick

[novanova]

From Barry Kenyon, MBE, appearing in The Nation, 15 Feb:

We, the arrested Pattaya bridge players, are somewhat confused by your analysis (February 14, page 2). In truth, we are technically still on police bail awaiting a decision by the public prosecutor.

Your statement that bridge is a card game played by four players in two teams, using one deck of cards, does not remotely apply to duplicate bridge as licensed by the Thai Contract Bridge Association. I attended a bridge congress in Thailand last year where 100 persons competed in 50 separate partnerships.

The event, happily not raided as many influential Thai nationals were present, required dozens of packs of cards in use at the same time. Let's not confuse bridge with Snap or Canasta.

Played really well, bridge requires similar mental agility to chess and lies at the borders of human cognition in its higher reaches. I do not know whether bridge should be an Olympic sport or not. Nor do I know how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. So what? Pattaya bridge club was patently raided because gambling had been reported by a most doubtful source whose identity is known to us. Once the crucial gambling charge was shown to be silly, the spotlight obviously shifted to secondary issues such as too many packs of cards, the significance of legislation passed during the Japanese occupation in 1943 and pondering whether a glass of beer on a side table between 2pm and 5pm is a criminal offence or not.

Not for a moment do I contest the right of the civilian licensing authority or the police to look at all these matters. But we are bound to ask whether a mass arrest lasting 12 hours, including vulnerable ladies in their 80s and in the full glare of international publicity, wasn't just a slight over-reaction especially as Pattaya bridge club is now in its 22nd year of operation. A tragic misunderstanding?

[HooHaa]

dont think it is a matter of face, I would not be surprised if somebody involved pissed someone off.

[Psychic]

Good article on duplicate bridge in the Bangkok Post.

Unfortunately, can't be posted here.

I didn't know bridge was introduced to Thailand by King Rama VI.

[tropo]

If I'd seen this nonsense before I came to Thailand I doubt I would have ever come. I wonder what kind of damage this is doing to the tourism industry.

Not a lot... very few people come to Thailand to play bridge.

It's not about the game. It's about exposing something about Thai psyche that would be very off-putting for many levelheaded would be tourists. This is the type of absurdity usually only seen in Muslim countries where they practice Sharia Law.

When you enter a country, you are subject to their laws. It is a consideration for tourists to know how laws are applied.

[stephenterry]

If I'd seen this nonsense before I came to Thailand I doubt I would have ever come. I wonder what kind of damage this is doing to the tourism industry.

Not a lot... very few people come to Thailand to play bridge.

It's not about the game. It's about exposing something about Thai psyche that would be very off-putting for many levelheaded would be tourists. This is the type of absurdity usually only seen in Muslim countries where they practice Sharia Law.

When you enter a country, you are subject to their laws. It is a consideration for tourists to know how laws are applied.

Rubbish. A trumped up 1935 law that has never been enforced, and probably superseded by a later law. It's pure spite because the imbecile got it all wrong.

[tropo]

If I'd seen this nonsense before I came to Thailand I doubt I would have ever come. I wonder what kind of damage this is doing to the tourism industry.

Not a lot... very few people come to Thailand to play bridge.

It's not about the game. It's about exposing something about Thai psyche that would be very off-putting for many levelheaded would be tourists. This is the type of absurdity usually only seen in Muslim countries where they practice Sharia Law.

When you enter a country, you are subject to their laws. It is a consideration for tourists to know how laws are applied.

Rubbish. A trumped up 1935 law that has never been enforced, and probably superseded by a later law. It's pure spite because the imbecile got it all wrong.

Perhaps you're replying to someone else or you should concentrate before making "rubbish" remarks unrelated to what you're reading.

[lovelomsak]

From Barry Kenyon, MBE, appearing in The Nation, 15 Feb:

We, the arrested Pattaya bridge players, are somewhat confused by your analysis (February 14, page 2). In truth, we are technically still on police bail awaiting a decision by the public prosecutor.

Your statement that bridge is a card game played by four players in two teams, using one deck of cards, does not remotely apply to duplicate bridge as licensed by the Thai Contract Bridge Association. I attended a bridge congress in Thailand last year where 100 persons competed in 50 separate partnerships.

The event, happily not raided as many influential Thai nationals were present, required dozens of packs of cards in use at the same time. Let's not confuse bridge with Snap or Canasta.

Played really well, bridge requires similar mental agility to chess and lies at the borders of human cognition in its higher reaches. I do not know whether bridge should be an Olympic sport or not. Nor do I know how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. So what? Pattaya bridge club was patently raided because gambling had been reported by a most doubtful source whose identity is known to us. Once the crucial gambling charge was shown to be silly, the spotlight obviously shifted to secondary issues such as too many packs of cards, the significance of legislation passed during the Japanese occupation in 1943 and pondering whether a glass of beer on a side table between 2pm and 5pm is a criminal offence or not.

Not for a moment do I contest the right of the civilian licensing authority or the police to look at all these matters. But we are bound to ask whether a mass arrest lasting 12 hours, including vulnerable ladies in their 80s and in the full glare of international publicity, wasn't just a slight over-reaction especially as Pattaya bridge club is now in its 22nd year of operation. A tragic misunderstanding?

I thought I read in another thread that you stated the 5000 baht was paid back in cash,same time they got passports. But this article says the 5000 baht has not been returned. So what is it?

[berybert]

From Barry Kenyon, MBE, appearing in The Nation, 15 Feb:

We, the arrested Pattaya bridge players, are somewhat confused by your analysis (February 14, page 2). In truth, we are technically still on police bail awaiting a decision by the public prosecutor.

Your statement that bridge is a card game played by four players in two teams, using one deck of cards, does not remotely apply to duplicate bridge as licensed by the Thai Contract Bridge Association. I attended a bridge congress in Thailand last year where 100 persons competed in 50 separate partnerships.

The event, happily not raided as many influential Thai nationals were present, required dozens of packs of cards in use at the same time. Let's not confuse bridge with Snap or Canasta.

Played really well, bridge requires similar mental agility to chess and lies at the borders of human cognition in its higher reaches. I do not know whether bridge should be an Olympic sport or not. Nor do I know how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. So what? Pattaya bridge club was patently raided because gambling had been reported by a most doubtful source whose identity is known to us. Once the crucial gambling charge was shown to be silly, the spotlight obviously shifted to secondary issues such as too many packs of cards, the significance of legislation passed during the Japanese occupation in 1943 and pondering whether a glass of beer on a side table between 2pm and 5pm is a criminal offence or not.

Not for a moment do I contest the right of the civilian licensing authority or the police to look at all these matters. But we are bound to ask whether a mass arrest lasting 12 hours, including vulnerable ladies in their 80s and in the full glare of international publicity, wasn't just a slight over-reaction especially as Pattaya bridge club is now in its 22nd year of operation. A tragic misunderstanding?

I thought I read in another thread that you stated the 5000 baht was paid back in cash,same time they got passports. But this article says the 5000 baht has not been returned. So what is it?

I guess you need to work out who to believe. One of the bridge players or the RTP. Tough decision if you are under 4 years of age.

[stephenterry]

Perhaps you're replying to someone else or you should concentrate before making "rubbish" remarks unrelated to what you're reading.

Rubbish. A trumped up 1935 law that has never been enforced, and probably superseded by a later law. It's pure spite because the imbecile got it all wrong.

No Tropo, I'm replying to you. And what you wrote is rubbish, IMHO. Why?

No tourist would consider that they would be fitted up by an obscure law - they might have heard that Thai police are not the most morally righteous in the world and that's that. In relation to Sharia law, that's extremely clear what is legal and what isn't, and what would be the penalties if not observed. I can speak with experience as I've lived in Aceh, Sumatra. Completely different to Thai law, which is mostly made up on the wing by a corrupt cop.

[lovelomsak]

From Barry Kenyon, MBE, appearing in The Nation, 15 Feb:

We, the arrested Pattaya bridge players, are somewhat confused by your analysis (February 14, page 2). In truth, we are technically still on police bail awaiting a decision by the public prosecutor.

Your statement that bridge is a card game played by four players in two teams, using one deck of cards, does not remotely apply to duplicate bridge as licensed by the Thai Contract Bridge Association. I attended a bridge congress in Thailand last year where 100 persons competed in 50 separate partnerships.

The event, happily not raided as many influential Thai nationals were present, required dozens of packs of cards in use at the same time. Let's not confuse bridge with Snap or Canasta.

Played really well, bridge requires similar mental agility to chess and lies at the borders of human cognition in its higher reaches. I do not know whether bridge should be an Olympic sport or not. Nor do I know how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. So what? Pattaya bridge club was patently raided because gambling had been reported by a most doubtful source whose identity is known to us. Once the crucial gambling charge was shown to be silly, the spotlight obviously shifted to secondary issues such as too many packs of cards, the significance of legislation passed during the Japanese occupation in 1943 and pondering whether a glass of beer on a side table between 2pm and 5pm is a criminal offence or not.

Not for a moment do I contest the right of the civilian licensing authority or the police to look at all these matters. But we are bound to ask whether a mass arrest lasting 12 hours, including vulnerable ladies in their 80s and in the full glare of international publicity, wasn't just a slight over-reaction especially as Pattaya bridge club is now in its 22nd year of operation. A tragic misunderstanding?

I thought I read in another thread that you stated the 5000 baht was paid back in cash,same time they got passports. But this article says the 5000 baht has not been returned. So what is it?

I guess you need to work out who to believe. One of the bridge players or the RTP. Tough decision if you are under 4 years of age.

I ask because I want to know who to believe. what evidence do we have novanova is a bridge player? His word. So why the contradiction between what he posted and what the news says. What is in it for them to say they still have the bail money if they do not. have it.

[novanova]

I thought I read in another thread that you stated the 5000 baht was paid back in cash,same time they got passports. But this article says the 5000 baht has not been returned. So what is it

I ask because I want to know who to believe. what evidence do we have novanova is a bridge player? His word. So why the contradiction between what he posted and what the news says. What is in it for them to say they still have the bail money if they do not. have it.

I am indeed a bridgeplayer and a regular at the Pattaya club when I am in the area. I have been a tournament player since 1973.

As regards the bail money:

The players were paid 4,000b each (5,000 - 1,000 to lawyers) last week by the lawyers who are assisting Jeremy Watson, who is facing silly charges, and the bridgeplayers. The lawyers will get the money from the police when the absurd gambling charges are wound up.

This matter was handled by our lawyers because quite a few players (I included) are visitors and leaving Thailand shortly.

[lovelomsak]

This is reply to post 203 by novanova.

See was that hard now. Not like you told it the first time in the other post huh. so everyone is out 1000 baht to the benevolant lawyer who paid every one because he is so sure he will win the case. So the police still have the money not as stated in other post.Where does a person find a lawyer like that? Anyone willing to pay upfront to go to work must be in great demand. To be honest sounds like a spin job to me.

[novanova]

This is reply to post 203 by novanova.

See was that hard now. Not like you told it the first time in the other post huh. so everyone is out 1000 baht to the benevolant lawyer who paid every one because he is so sure he will win the case. So the police still have the money not as stated in other post.Where does a person find a lawyer like that? Anyone willing to pay upfront to go to work must be in great demand. To be honest sounds like a spin job to me.

There is no "spin job". You know nothing of what has been happening. You speak from a position of profound ignorance.

That OUR lawyers have been given 1,000b by each player, taken from the 5,000 that has been given to the players, was written up some days ago. We all attended a meeting at the club last Wed (10th Feb) and were given our 4,000b. The lawyer who has been doing most of the work is a long-time associate of one of the players. How he chooses to conduct his business is not your concern.

The number of ridiculous comments on this topic, with the wildest and nuttiest of conspiracy ravings, really is quite incredible.There are some very silly people around and their "input" contributes nothing of value.

[lovelomsak]

Sorry not a conspiracy ravings just unable to understand somethings that get more confusing as questions are asked. At first I just wanted to know if the court gave back the money as you said previously. then the story changed. No the lawyer gave back 4000 to each person .Now correct me if I am wrong but these are totally 2 different stories.

You are totally right how the lawyer conducts his business is none of my concern. But in forum I should be able to ask for clarity of posters without being attacked as ridiculous,raving or conspiracy orientated.

But to do as you said the lawyer had to lay out over 128,000 baht of his own money. I was just commenting on how benevolent a man he is. Not to many men would do such a thing. I wait to see his name online if I ever need a lawyer for a law suit he will be the first one I call.

But would like to end this here we are getting away from the posted topic.

So it is confirmed the police still have the bail money as I ask and as the original post stated. What the lawyer does with his money is his business.

[onemorechang]

There is no "spin job". You know nothing of what has been happening. You speak from a position of profound ignorance.

That OUR lawyers have been given 1,000b by each player, taken from the 5,000 that has been given to the players, was written up some days ago. We all attended a meeting at the club last Wed (10th Feb) and were given our 4,000b. The lawyer who has been doing most of the work is a long-time associate of one of the players. How he chooses to conduct his business is not your concern.

The number of ridiculous comments on this topic, with the wildest and nuttiest of conspiracy ravings, really is quite incredible.There are some very silly people around and their "input" contributes nothing of value.

Oh dear, no need for that.

I do believe you all, have the sympathy of most on this forum.

but this is Forum not your own personal space, people can say what they wish within forum rules, like it all or not.

you choose to come here.

Good luck to you all.

Have a nice day.

[Basil B]

I ask because I want to know who to believe. what evidence do we have novanova is a bridge player? His word. So why the contradiction between what he posted and what the news says. What is in it for them to say they still have the bail money if they do not. have it.

Not just what other news sources say, he seems to contradict the statement of other players...

I guess you need to work out who to believe. One of the bridge players or the RTP. Tough decision if you are under 4 years of age.

It it is not the RTP who are throwing their toys out of the pram... whether the DOPA head man or as I suspect the guy in BKK thumping his fists on the desk again, (remember by all accounts he has been bad tempered with the press for a week or so)...

[balo]

So just to avoid any confusion , it was their lawyer who paid back 4000 baht to each player , probably the money came from his own pocket so the tourists can travel home while the lawyers do their job to get back the bail money . Am I correct ?

[novanova]

So just to avoid any confusion , it was their lawyer who paid back 4000 baht to each player , probably the money came from his own pocket so the tourists can travel home while the lawyers do their job to get back the bail money . Am I correct ?

Yes, this is correct.

If you go to the Pattaya Mail site and look for "Bridging the Difference", 12th Feb, you will see the opinions of bridge club founder Barry Kenyon, MBE.