USUFRUCT: in the case of divorce

[sawadee1947]

I read in this forum a lot already about "usufruct" - lifetime. There is already a quite sufficient threrd here. But it is not clear for me what will happen to the usufruct in case of divorce.

Will this right end with divorce? Probably not?

How to provide it will end with divorce? And if so where to provide? As an supplement to usufruct? Will the officer "allow" that? And how to express in words?

I appreciate qualified answer - if possible by lawyers.

[thaihome]

Thai marriage law allows any contract made during marriage to be voided by either party within one year of divorce.

TH

[happylarry]

Thai marriage law allows any contract made during marriage to be voided by either party within one year of divorce.

TH

Out of interest, can you quote where you got this information?

HL

[blackcab]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

TITLE I

Chapter II

Section 1469

"Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

So as discussed, a contract between husband and wife can be cancelled, but not at the expense of a third party.

Edited February 25, 2016 by blackcab

[Langsuan Man]

Usufruct is only a good option if entered into prior to the marriage

And even then you may have the legal right to occupy the residence, but can you handle the, now ex wife's , harassment or her family's ?

Owning in a company name looks better and better if you look at it from a practical side

[12DrinkMore]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

TITLE I

Chapter II

Section 1469

"Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

So as discussed, a contract between husband and wife can be cancelled, but not at the expense of a third party.

Oh dear!

This is the first time I have seen this.

Wonder how many husbands will feel a little less secure in their secured use for life?

[happylarry]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

TITLE I

Chapter II

Section 1469

"Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

So as discussed, a contract between husband and wife can be cancelled, but not at the expense of a third party.

Oh dear!

This is the first time I have seen this.

Wonder how many husbands will feel a little less secure in their secured use for life?

Well it doesn't worry me, but then I didn't do my usufruct because I didn't trust my wife and was expecting to divorce her in the future.

I did my usufruct in case my wife predeceased me and distant relatives tried to get their share....lol

For those that do find themselves in that unfortunate position though, I don't know why they would wish to remain in the property if there are bad feelings everywhere.

HL

[LivinLOS]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

TITLE I

Chapter II

Section 1469

"Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

So as discussed, a contract between husband and wife can be cancelled, but not at the expense of a third party.

Oh dear!

This is the first time I have seen this.

Wonder how many husbands will feel a little less secure in their secured use for life?

I think any of us that actually researched it.. Know this..

In the event of a divorce, play nice for the first year.

[Mr Money Bags]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

Well it doesn't worry me, but then I didn't do my usufruct because I didn't trust my wife and was expecting to divorce her in the future.

I did my usufruct in case my wife predeceased me and distant relatives tried to get their share....lol

For those that do find themselves in that unfortunate position though, I don't know why they would wish to remain in the property if there are bad feelings everywhere.

HL

Accuse me of going off-topic, but why, oh why did you ever marry a woman you don't trust and actually expected to divorce?

I am deathly curious to know the reasoning, please......

You're Welcome!!

[happylarry]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

Well it doesn't worry me, but then I didn't do my usufruct because I didn't trust my wife and was expecting to divorce her in the future.

I did my usufruct in case my wife predeceased me and distant relatives tried to get their share....lol

For those that do find themselves in that unfortunate position though, I don't know why they would wish to remain in the property if there are bad feelings everywhere.

HL

Accuse me of going off-topic, but why, oh why did you ever marry a woman you don't trust and actually expected to divorce?

I am deathly curious to know the reasoning, please......

You're Welcome!!

hahaha I can see why you read it that way but I think you need to put your glasses on now....lol

HL

[bangkoklawyer24]

"I appreciate qualified answer - if possible by lawyers."

You made my day!

[fxe1200]

Even with a valid "usufruct", what are you going to do, when you are being denied entry into the house? Fight yourself inside, and get beaten by some Thai friends of your wife? Or do you consult a lawyer and wait five years for the verdict, that at that time you had the right to enter the house?

[ozyjon]

Not interested, too hard, better renting, bye.

[Anon999]

Thai marriage law allows any contract made during marriage to be voided by either party within one year of divorce.

TH

And what if the Usufruct was made before marriage?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Thai law quoted above regarding the ability of either spouse to void any contract between the two within one year after a divorce is correct.

So a usufruct entered into after marriage doesn't really provide much protection for the farang in the event of a divorce -- at least if the wife and/or those around her are clued in enough to be aware of the law.

But where the usufruct can provide more protection in a mixed-marriage situation is if the Thai wife should happen to die prematurely or unexpectedly. In that case, whatever rights given to the surviving husband in the usufruct executed with the wife during her lifetime would continue to be legally binding after her death.

[happylarry]

The Thai law quoted above regarding the ability of either spouse to void any contract between the two within one year after a divorce is correct.

So a usufruct entered into after marriage doesn't really provide much protection for the farang in the event of a divorce -- at least if the wife and/or those around her are clued in enough to be aware of the law.

But where the usufruct can provide more protection in a mixed-marriage situation is if the Thai wife should happen to die prematurely or unexpectedly. In that case, whatever rights given to the surviving husband in the usufruct executed with the wife during her lifetime would continue to be legally binding after her death.

Which is exactly the reason I did mine as per my post above.

HL

[swissie]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

Well it doesn't worry me, but then I didn't do my usufruct because I didn't trust my wife and was expecting to divorce her in the future.

I did my usufruct in case my wife predeceased me and distant relatives tried to get their share....lol

For those that do find themselves in that unfortunate position though, I don't know why they would wish to remain in the property if there are bad feelings everywhere.

HL

Accuse me of going off-topic, but why, oh why did you ever marry a woman you don't trust and actually expected to divorce?

I am deathly curious to know the reasoning, please......

You're Welcome!!

Are you aware of the fact, that 50% of marriages end up in divorce? On what planet do you live ?

Whatever your reply will be, just don't quote anything resembling to the old " my Thai-Wifey is different from the rest". Please don't !

Cheers.

[sawadee1947]

thank you for all your comments

[blackcab]

Thai marriage law allows any contract made during marriage to be voided by either party within one year of divorce.

TH

And what if the Usufruct was made before marriage?

Then the wife (or ex-wife) can not cancel the agreement.

She could still make it difficult to live in the property though if it is built on her family land in the middle of nowhere.

[TheCruncher]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

TITLE I

Chapter II

Section 1469

"Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby."

So as discussed, a contract between husband and wife can be cancelled, but not at the expense of a third party.

Oh dear!

This is the first time I have seen this.

Wonder how many husbands will feel a little less secure in their secured use for life?

This not Thailand restricted, it's the law in most western countries as well.

[cornishcarlos]

On topic slightly, what does the Usufruct actually consist of ??

I believe it is noted on the back of the title deed for the land but is there any other documentation ?

I would like one for our new plot, purely to retain use should my wife die before me (she eats a lot of rubbish, so she might)

[Mr Money Bags]

Accuse me of going off-topic, but why, oh why did you ever marry a woman you don't trust and actually expected to divorce?

I am deathly curious to know the reasoning, please......

You're Welcome!!

Are you aware of the fact, that 50% of marriages end up in divorce? On what planet do you live ?

Whatever your reply will be, just don't quote anything resembling to the old " my Thai-Wifey is different from the rest". Please don't !

Cheers.

I can't quote anything about my Thai wife, as I don't have one.

Planning for failure only becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy......

You're Welcome!!

[blackcab]

I can't quote anything about my Thai wife, as I don't have one.

Planning for failure only becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy......

You're Welcome!!

I take it you never buy insurance.

[happylarry]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

Well it doesn't worry me, but then I didn't do my usufruct because I didn't trust my wife and was expecting to divorce her in the future.

I did my usufruct in case my wife predeceased me and distant relatives tried to get their share....lol

For those that do find themselves in that unfortunate position though, I don't know why they would wish to remain in the property if there are bad feelings everywhere.

HL

Accuse me of going off-topic, but why, oh why did you ever marry a woman you don't trust and actually expected to divorce?

I am deathly curious to know the reasoning, please......

You're Welcome!!

Why don't you guys read a post properly....there seems to be a lot of talk about marrying while intending to divorce, if this comes from what I wrote then you all couldn't be more wrong fortunately. I have been with my wife for twelve years now and couldn't be more happy with my choice. Anyway if you bothered to read the post properly, I was describing the reason for my taking out a usufruct and said I DIDNT do it for those reasons that you are all talking about, maybe you guys are not that used to reading English I guess.

HL

[Gulfsailor]

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code

Book IV: Marriage

Well it doesn't worry me, but then I didn't do my usufruct because I didn't trust my wife and was expecting to divorce her in the future.

I did my usufruct in case my wife predeceased me and distant relatives tried to get their share....lol

For those that do find themselves in that unfortunate position though, I don't know why they would wish to remain in the property if there are bad feelings everywhere.

HL

Accuse me of going off-topic, but why, oh why did you ever marry a woman you don't trust and actually expected to divorce?

I am deathly curious to know the reasoning, please......

You're Welcome!!

Why don't you guys read a post properly....there seems to be a lot of talk about marrying while intending to divorce, if this comes from what I wrote then you all couldn't be more wrong fortunately. I have been with my wife for twelve years now and couldn't be more happy with my choice. Anyway if you bothered to read the post properly, I was describing the reason for my taking out a usufruct and said I DIDNT do it for those reasons that you are all talking about, maybe you guys are not that used to reading English I guess.

HL

I am with you HL, but you are not making it easy for the readers. The difference a single comma makes;

"I didn't do it because..." vs "I didn't do it, because..."

[happylarry]

_{Ok point accepted, thank you GS.}

_HL

[happylarry]

On second thoughts GS I have been rereading and rereading my post and I think if the comma is in there then it does give that as a reason so I think I am right in my original post. Sorry....lol

HL

[Mr Money Bags]

I can't quote anything about my Thai wife, as I don't have one.

Planning for failure only becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy......

You're Welcome!!

I take it you never buy insurance.

Fair point. I do buy insurance, but that is a business arrangement. Honestly, I am just glad to understand now that I misunderstood the original post in question.

I tend to think of marriage as more an affair of the heart than of the wallet......

You're Welcome!!

Edited March 1, 2016 by Mr Money Bags

[Gulfsailor]

On second thoughts GS I have been rereading and rereading my post and I think if the comma is in there then it does give that as a reason so I think I am right in my original post. Sorry....lol

HL

That's also what I meant. Just wanted to make clear how easy it is to misread something. As evidenced by my previous post apparently. Then again, I have the excuse of English not being my native language. Let this little sidetrack by a warning for anyone thinking of writing up their own legal agreements. It's difficult to put something in words in such a way that there can be no confusion of its meaning and intent.

[sometimewoodworker]

On topic slightly, what does the Usufruct actually consist of ??

I believe it is noted on the back of the title deed for the land but is there any other documentation ?

I would like one for our new plot, purely to retain use should my wife die before me (she eats a lot of rubbish, so she might)

It is a contract and as such can be from a one page "fill in the blanks" form to many pages long if you employ a lawyer to draw one up fo you.

The land office will need one original, the usufructee will need one original and the person granting the usufruct should probably have one.

The back of the title deed records the information from the original the land office keeps.