Israel cooperation puts Palestinian forces in a tough spot

[Morch]

Sorry thread full...

Morch wrote...

"In other words, you stick with the either/or formulation, without much thought to its implications."

If an implication is 50 more years of illegal occupation and stalling by Israel, I am not in favor of that.

Israel created the problem with its illegal occupation in 1967. Having to take full responsibility for security may force Israel to put up or shut up.It may also force the hand of external pressures on Israel.

Some of the probable implications, as they relate to the Palestinian populace, were mentioned above. Obviously, you do not have much to contribute on that, other than rehashing slogans.

How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians? It seems that your logic advocates worsening the situation of the Palestinian populace as long as it strikes an international PR blow or adds political pressure on Israel. That's exactly the keyboard warrior mentality brought up previously. I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

[Morch]

Thanks, so the link in question is simply to add the impression that he was not charged.

I did not make any claims regarding charges being made or not made. Try turning the tables on someone else.

I see, so once again, you justify any violence, if it is carried out in the name of resisting the occupation. Apparently no holds barred this time.

And to be sure, do you assert that all Palestinians in Israeli prisons are there due to "political" reasons and not, say, any mundane criminal activities?

Violence carried out in the name of resisting occupation is freedom fighting by another name.

You can't justify the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands by any legitimate argument.

A propaganda barrage in defense of the indefensible just gives the game away.

Incidentally, as brevity is the soul of wit, so it is of proselytism.

A turgid prose style combined with personal nastiness lets the side down.

ANY violence carried out in the name of resisting occupations is "freedom fighting"? Attacks carried out against civilians within Israel included? Attacks against kids of Israeli illegal settlers are cool too? Anything goes?

I did not justify nor condone the Israeli occupation. Not on this topic or others. In the same way, there was no "defense" of Israel offered in this topic, more a position in favor of maintaining the security coordination. Do keep up before posting nonsense.

I believe Forum rules mention repeated comments on posting style.

Palestinians need to stop any kind of Israel cooperation until sanctions to Israel gets tougher. If they start to ban Israelis to travel EU and if they grant them embargo same as Iran, i am sure they will be broken hard and faster than Iran bc Israel has nothign but sand! then peace might prevail over those unfortunate lands.

and yes, exactly we call it freedom fighting, resistance or whatever you name it. bc those people there just trying to protect their own stolen land and their families from Israel backed by foreign powers pushed by rich and affluent Jewish diaspora.

if it is cool for Israel to steal others' land and pushing those people and their 'kids' into poverty followed by radicalism (which turns back to Israel as stabbing or resistance) so i believe it must be normal flow of life if some Israelis get stabbed in the meantime. It is the price to pay, they did not see this coming? Where in the world people are willingly to get their land stolen? haven't they expected a reaction? c'mon!

Bc what i see is phosphorus bombs when Israel wants to protect their land and families, no? what is a knife when you compare with cruel and unmerciful phosphorus bomb?

as i said before, it is a price to pay for Israeli if they want to steal cheap and illegitimate land belong to others forcefully and illegally and if their innocent kids are paying this grim price, shame on their fathers, authorities and politicians in Israel!

again and again, it is the fault of Israelis if a small innocent Israeli kid is stabbed.

And another keyboard warrior emerges....

Palestinian should suffer more for the cause. Lovely.

Palestinians in the West Bank will be the ones paying for such "heroic" stance, no doubt a small price to pay in the eyes of some.

Peace coming about when Israel (all sand...right) is broken. Sounds like a fine foundation for peace. Of course, if presented in the opposite direction in would be evil, immoral and unjust.

So basically, you condone any violence, regardless against whom it is directed, as long as it is made in the name of resisting occupation. Well done. At least you are honest about your moral point of view. Now, when there's a reaction (or counter-reaction, whatever) and Palestinians get hurt over such attacks - do the same rules apply? (as in "they didn't see it coming?!"). Guess not, as it is only the Israelis to blame when their kids are getting stabbed.

[Jingthing]

Exactly Morch.

Often the voices of the Israel demonization agenda are actively cheerleading for terrorist attacks on innocents, anywhere and everywhere.

Like the Jews murdered in the Paris supermarket, that was done in the name of "freedom fighting" as well.

[JingerBen]

Exactly Morch.

Often the voices of the Israel demonization agenda are actively cheerleading for terrorist attacks on innocents, anywhere and everywhere.

Like the Jews murdered in the Paris supermarket, that was done in the name of "freedom fighting" as well.

Not at all.

What happened in Paris was terrorism, pure and simple.

What happens on occupied Palestinian land is justifiable resistance to Israeli aggression.

[Steely Dan]

"So you do not actually have any details on whether he was charged or not?"

No. That's why I asked the question. Notice the "or" ...either someone is charged OR they are not charged,.

Do you know whether he has been charged or is he one of the hundreds in Israeli jails detained without charge or trial?

Of course they are political prisoners. Israel made a political decision to illegally occupy the West Bank in 1967 and against international law transferred its own population there. Therefore, all resistance is similarly political and stems from that.

Thanks, so the link in question is simply to add the impression that he was not charged.

I did not make any claims regarding charges being made or not made. Try turning the tables on someone else.

I see, so once again, you justify any violence, if it is carried out in the name of resisting the occupation. Apparently no holds barred this time.

And to be sure, do you assert that all Palestinians in Israeli prisons are there due to "political" reasons and not, say, any mundane criminal activities?

Violence carried out in the name of resisting occupation is freedom fighting by another name.

You can't justify the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands by any legitimate argument.

A propaganda barrage in defense of the indefensible just gives the game away.

Incidentally, as brevity is the soul of wit, so it is of proselytism.

A turgid prose style combined with personal nastiness lets the side down.

ANY violence carried out in the name of resisting occupations is "freedom fighting"? Attacks carried out against civilians within Israel included? Attacks against kids of Israeli illegal settlers are cool too? Anything goes?

I did not justify nor condone the Israeli occupation. Not on this topic or others. In the same way, there was no "defense" of Israel offered in this topic, more a position in favor of maintaining the security coordination. Do keep up before posting nonsense.

I believe Forum rules mention repeated comments on posting style.

Palestinians need to stop any kind of Israel cooperation until sanctions to Israel gets tougher. If they start to ban Israelis to travel EU and if they grant them embargo same as Iran, i am sure they will be broken hard and faster than Iran bc Israel has nothign but sand! then peace might prevail over those unfortunate lands.

and yes, exactly we call it freedom fighting, resistance or whatever you name it. bc those people there just trying to protect their own stolen land and their families from Israel backed by foreign powers pushed by rich and affluent Jewish diaspora.

if it is cool for Israel to steal others' land and pushing those people and their 'kids' into poverty followed by radicalism (which turns back to Israel as stabbing or resistance) so i believe it must be normal flow of life if some Israelis get stabbed in the meantime. It is the price to pay, they did not see this coming? Where in the world people are willingly to get their land stolen? haven't they expected a reaction? c'mon!

Bc what i see is phosphorus bombs when Israel wants to protect their land and families, no? what is a knife when you compare with cruel and unmerciful phosphorus bomb?

as i said before, it is a price to pay for Israeli if they want to steal cheap and illegitimate land belong to others forcefully and illegally and if their innocent kids are paying this grim price, shame on their fathers, authorities and politicians in Israel!

again and again, it is the fault of Israelis if a small innocent Israeli kid is stabbed.

It's hard to know where to start rebutting the ignorance and downright lies of some of our esteemed members. You are conflating Palestinian civil disobedience with a wholesale embargo on Israel by the EU. Total fantasy as recent rulings against BDS demonstrate. White phosphorous was never used in a weaponized form by Israel, as was recently refuted also. Huge sums of money flow into Gaza and the West Bank, straight into the bank accounts of their leaders.

The Palestinian authority are dealing with a population incited and indoctrinated by their leaders from cradle to grave. It is this which is responsible for the predicament of Palestinian security personnel.

The link which you will ignore shows Palestinian parents condemning the hatred and incitement, which are all that is available by way of children's programs. Abbas should be tried by the ICC for child abuse on a national scale.

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=340&fld_id=340&doc_id=17365

Edited February 29, 2016 by Steely Dan

[dexterm]

Exactly Morch.

Often the voices of the Israel demonization agenda are actively cheerleading for terrorist attacks on innocents, anywhere and everywhere.

Like the Jews murdered in the Paris supermarket, that was done in the name of "freedom fighting" as well.

Pure off topic deflection.

[JingerBen]

"So you do not actually have any details on whether he was charged or not?"

No. That's why I asked the question. Notice the "or" ...either someone is charged OR they are not charged,.

Do you know whether he has been charged or is he one of the hundreds in Israeli jails detained without charge or trial?

Of course they are political prisoners. Israel made a political decision to illegally occupy the West Bank in 1967 and against international law transferred its own population there. Therefore, all resistance is similarly political and stems from that.

Thanks, so the link in question is simply to add the impression that he was not charged.

I did not make any claims regarding charges being made or not made. Try turning the tables on someone else.

I see, so once again, you justify any violence, if it is carried out in the name of resisting the occupation. Apparently no holds barred this time.

And to be sure, do you assert that all Palestinians in Israeli prisons are there due to "political" reasons and not, say, any mundane criminal activities?

Violence carried out in the name of resisting occupation is freedom fighting by another name.

You can't justify the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands by any legitimate argument.

A propaganda barrage in defense of the indefensible just gives the game away.

Incidentally, as brevity is the soul of wit, so it is of proselytism.

A turgid prose style combined with personal nastiness lets the side down.

ANY violence carried out in the name of resisting occupations is "freedom fighting"? Attacks carried out against civilians within Israel included? Attacks against kids of Israeli illegal settlers are cool too? Anything goes?

I did not justify nor condone the Israeli occupation. Not on this topic or others. In the same way, there was no "defense" of Israel offered in this topic, more a position in favor of maintaining the security coordination. Do keep up before posting nonsense.

I believe Forum rules mention repeated comments on posting style.

Palestinians need to stop any kind of Israel cooperation until sanctions to Israel gets tougher. If they start to ban Israelis to travel EU and if they grant them embargo same as Iran, i am sure they will be broken hard and faster than Iran bc Israel has nothign but sand! then peace might prevail over those unfortunate lands.

and yes, exactly we call it freedom fighting, resistance or whatever you name it. bc those people there just trying to protect their own stolen land and their families from Israel backed by foreign powers pushed by rich and affluent Jewish diaspora.

if it is cool for Israel to steal others' land and pushing those people and their 'kids' into poverty followed by radicalism (which turns back to Israel as stabbing or resistance) so i believe it must be normal flow of life if some Israelis get stabbed in the meantime. It is the price to pay, they did not see this coming? Where in the world people are willingly to get their land stolen? haven't they expected a reaction? c'mon!

Bc what i see is phosphorus bombs when Israel wants to protect their land and families, no? what is a knife when you compare with cruel and unmerciful phosphorus bomb?

as i said before, it is a price to pay for Israeli if they want to steal cheap and illegitimate land belong to others forcefully and illegally and if their innocent kids are paying this grim price, shame on their fathers, authorities and politicians in Israel!

again and again, it is the fault of Israelis if a small innocent Israeli kid is stabbed.

It's hard to know where to start rebutting the ignorance and downright lies of some of our esteemed members. You are conflating Palestinian civil disobedience with a wholesale embargo on Israel by the EU. Total fantasy as recent rulings against BDS demonstrate. White phosphorous was never used in a weaponized form by Israel, as was recently refuted also. Huge sums of money flow into Gaza and the West Bank, straight into the bank accounts of their leaders.

The Palestinian authority are dealing with a population incited and indoctrinated by their leaders from cradle to grave. It is this which is responsible for the predicament of Palestinian security personnel.

The link which you will ignore shows Palestinian parents condemning the hatred and incitement, which are all that is available by way of children's programs. Abbas should be tried by the ICC for child abuse on a national scale.

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=340&fld_id=340&doc_id=17365

What's your point?

It's hard to see it through the fog.

Although I do sympathize with your dilemma.

The Israeli position can't be presented in a simple and concise form because it is indefensible by all standards of international law and justice.

[Ulysses G.]

It's hard to know where to start rebutting the ignorance and downright lies of some of our esteemed members.

I would start by pointing out that most of it is on the anti-Israel side. I can't think of one of the Israel hating regulars who write historically accurate posts even 25% of the time. One member consistently posts one lie after another and his fan boys constantly cheer him on with "likes". It is amazing to see him trying to shoot it out with Morch who knows more than anyone else about the conflict, is pretty much nuetral and usually gets things right.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full...

Morch wrote...

"In other words, you stick with the either/or formulation, without much thought to its implications."

If an implication is 50 more years of illegal occupation and stalling by Israel, I am not in favor of that.

Israel created the problem with its illegal occupation in 1967. Having to take full responsibility for security may force Israel to put up or shut up.It may also force the hand of external pressures on Israel.

Some of the probable implications, as they relate to the Palestinian populace, were mentioned above. Obviously, you do not have much to contribute on that, other than rehashing slogans.

How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians? It seems that your logic advocates worsening the situation of the Palestinian populace as long as it strikes an international PR blow or adds political pressure on Israel. That's exactly the keyboard warrior mentality brought up previously. I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

Your criticism of my posts calling them slogans is itself becoming a slogan, which indicates you have nothing constructive to say to help solve the problems. It's always the too hard basket. No vision. Better stick with the status quo for another 50 years.

>>How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians?

It can't be much worse than it is at present with IDF thugs running amok carte blanche in areas assigned to Palestinian security.

>>I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

You're the one making the assertion. How do you know what Palestinians in the West Bank think? How many Palestinians do Zionists regulary consult about their self determination? With over 20% of the population having at one time or another been incarcerated by the Israeli invaders and occupiers, I don't think they relish 50 more years of the status quo.

Edited February 29, 2016 by dexterm

[Galactus]

Violence carried out in the name of resisting occupation is freedom fighting by another name.

You can't justify the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands by any legitimate argument.

A propaganda barrage in defense of the indefensible just gives the game away.

Incidentally, as brevity is the soul of wit, so it is of proselytism.

A turgid prose style combined with personal nastiness lets the side down.

ANY violence carried out in the name of resisting occupations is "freedom fighting"? Attacks carried out against civilians within Israel included? Attacks against kids of Israeli illegal settlers are cool too? Anything goes?

I did not justify nor condone the Israeli occupation. Not on this topic or others. In the same way, there was no "defense" of Israel offered in this topic, more a position in favor of maintaining the security coordination. Do keep up before posting nonsense.

I believe Forum rules mention repeated comments on posting style.

Palestinians need to stop any kind of Israel cooperation until sanctions to Israel gets tougher. If they start to ban Israelis to travel EU and if they grant them embargo same as Iran, i am sure they will be broken hard and faster than Iran bc Israel has nothign but sand! then peace might prevail over those unfortunate lands.

and yes, exactly we call it freedom fighting, resistance or whatever you name it. bc those people there just trying to protect their own stolen land and their families from Israel backed by foreign powers pushed by rich and affluent Jewish diaspora.

if it is cool for Israel to steal others' land and pushing those people and their 'kids' into poverty followed by radicalism (which turns back to Israel as stabbing or resistance) so i believe it must be normal flow of life if some Israelis get stabbed in the meantime. It is the price to pay, they did not see this coming? Where in the world people are willingly to get their land stolen? haven't they expected a reaction? c'mon!

Bc what i see is phosphorus bombs when Israel wants to protect their land and families, no? what is a knife when you compare with cruel and unmerciful phosphorus bomb?

as i said before, it is a price to pay for Israeli if they want to steal cheap and illegitimate land belong to others forcefully and illegally and if their innocent kids are paying this grim price, shame on their fathers, authorities and politicians in Israel!

again and again, it is the fault of Israelis if a small innocent Israeli kid is stabbed.

And another keyboard warrior emerges....

Palestinian should suffer more for the cause. Lovely.

Palestinians in the West Bank will be the ones paying for such "heroic" stance, no doubt a small price to pay in the eyes of some.

Peace coming about when Israel (all sand...right) is broken. Sounds like a fine foundation for peace. Of course, if presented in the opposite direction in would be evil, immoral and unjust.

So basically, you condone any violence, regardless against whom it is directed, as long as it is made in the name of resisting occupation. Well done. At least you are honest about your moral point of view. Now, when there's a reaction (or counter-reaction, whatever) and Palestinians get hurt over such attacks - do the same rules apply? (as in "they didn't see it coming?!"). Guess not, as it is only the Israelis to blame when their kids are getting stabbed.

if we look for a keyboard warrior here, i believe it is you.

you take sides and for you violence of israel is right and palestinian's wrong.

and those phosphorus bombs and disproportionate use of force, you never see them i guess and hooked on stabbings of palestinians.

for me whose land is stolen, that side is right and whoever started this by stealing land of others are wrong and responsible for all these.

so of course whatever happens, it is totally the responsibility of the land thieves and any righteous person not being brainwashed by zionist propoganda believes so. but not you?

so if someone comes to your land and forcefully wants to take it, you just turn your other cheek to them like jesus and dont resist? please just a simple answer.

if israelis dragging their kids into this bloody affair, they are responsible from their kids too.

and yes, israel deserves an embargo and international ban just bc they dont obey international rules and creating constant aggression for some pieces of desert, many supporting this 'reality'.

embargo for poor palestinians there by aggressor israel? as long as it is their land stolen and their homes are bombed and getting burning phosphorus showers, yes it is immoral and unjust and evil.

and embargo for israel, they get broken fast and force them to peace as i said if no support of usa or eu, israel has nothing but sand.

you are just doing a word salad my friend.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Galactus

[Morch]

Exactly Morch.

Often the voices of the Israel demonization agenda are actively cheerleading for terrorist attacks on innocents, anywhere and everywhere.

Like the Jews murdered in the Paris supermarket, that was done in the name of "freedom fighting" as well.

Not at all.

What happened in Paris was terrorism, pure and simple.

What happens on occupied Palestinian land is justifiable resistance to Israeli aggression.

Palestinian attacks are not, and never were, limited to the occupied territories. Yet even attacks well within Israel are hailed as being carried out as resistance to the occupation. Do such attacks lose some of their legitimacy or does that apply only for attacks carried out anywhere but "between the river and the sea"?

Also, not to take away from the Palestinian's right to resist the Israeli occupation, but does it mean any Palestinian attack carried out in the West Bank is justifiable and should be condoned? Some would say that building a national ethos of resistance to the occupation, does not necessarily have to include murdering children. The fact that many Palestinian children get hurt by IDF actions is bad enough, why emulate it?

[Morch]

Sorry thread full...

Morch wrote...

"In other words, you stick with the either/or formulation, without much thought to its implications."

If an implication is 50 more years of illegal occupation and stalling by Israel, I am not in favor of that.

Israel created the problem with its illegal occupation in 1967. Having to take full responsibility for security may force Israel to put up or shut up.It may also force the hand of external pressures on Israel.

Some of the probable implications, as they relate to the Palestinian populace, were mentioned above. Obviously, you do not have much to contribute on that, other than rehashing slogans.

How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians? It seems that your logic advocates worsening the situation of the Palestinian populace as long as it strikes an international PR blow or adds political pressure on Israel. That's exactly the keyboard warrior mentality brought up previously. I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

Your criticism of my posts calling them slogans is itself becoming a slogan, which indicates you have nothing constructive to say to help solve the problems. It's always the too hard basket. No vision. Better stick with the status quo for another 50 years.

>>How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians?

It can't be much worse than it is at present with IDF thugs running amok carte blanche in areas assigned to Palestinian security.

>>I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

You're the one making the assertion. How do you know what Palestinians in the West Bank think? How many Palestinians do Zionists regulary consult about their self determination? With over 20% of the population having at one time or another been incarcerated by the Israeli invaders and occupiers, I don't think they relish 50 more years of the status quo.

As posted earlier: pick someone else to try the table turning. Not impressed.

The 50 years is something you came up with, not included in my posts. Nor did I advocate any status quo.

If you think that it cannot be worse, than take a look at some of the neighboring countries. Things in the Middle East can get real ugly real quick when authority breaks down. If this is not good enough, enough to remember how things panned out last time the Fatah and the Hamas came to blows. Not pretty. Not having the security cooperation with Israel would mean the PA's collapse. No two ways about it. Guess that too could be played out as "more pressure on Israel", but again, what of the local populace?

The assertion that most of the Palestinians are not interested in West Bank turning into another Syria, Libya or Gaza? Or would that be the assertion that the Palestinian are not oblivious to the failings of their leadership and security forces? Well, some of it can be found even on English language sources. Easier if one is not limited by either constraint. Both Palestinian leaderships do not encourage dissent or unflattering comments - journalists, reporters and even the citizenry tend to be somewhat cautious when treading them grounds. But again, if you imagine that each and every Palestinian will readily subscribe to the PA descending into anarchy, knock yourself out with revolutionary fantasies.

[Steely Dan]

"So you do not actually have any details on whether he was charged or not?"

No. That's why I asked the question. Notice the "or" ...either someone is charged OR they are not charged,.
Do you know whether he has been charged or is he one of the hundreds in Israeli jails detained without charge or trial?

Of course they are political prisoners. Israel made a political decision to illegally occupy the West Bank in 1967 and against international law transferred its own population there. Therefore, all resistance is similarly political and stems from that.

Thanks, so the link in question is simply to add the impression that he was not charged.
I did not make any claims regarding charges being made or not made. Try turning the tables on someone else.

I see, so once again, you justify any violence, if it is carried out in the name of resisting the occupation. Apparently no holds barred this time.
And to be sure, do you assert that all Palestinians in Israeli prisons are there due to "political" reasons and not, say, any mundane criminal activities?

Violence carried out in the name of resisting occupation is freedom fighting by another name.
You can't justify the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands by any legitimate argument.
A propaganda barrage in defense of the indefensible just gives the game away.
Incidentally, as brevity is the soul of wit, so it is of proselytism.
A turgid prose style combined with personal nastiness lets the side down.

ANY violence carried out in the name of resisting occupations is "freedom fighting"? Attacks carried out against civilians within Israel included? Attacks against kids of Israeli illegal settlers are cool too? Anything goes?

I did not justify nor condone the Israeli occupation. Not on this topic or others. In the same way, there was no "defense" of Israel offered in this topic, more a position in favor of maintaining the security coordination. Do keep up before posting nonsense.

I believe Forum rules mention repeated comments on posting style.

Palestinians need to stop any kind of Israel cooperation until sanctions to Israel gets tougher. If they start to ban Israelis to travel EU and if they grant them embargo same as Iran, i am sure they will be broken hard and faster than Iran bc Israel has nothign but sand! then peace might prevail over those unfortunate lands.

and yes, exactly we call it freedom fighting, resistance or whatever you name it. bc those people there just trying to protect their own stolen land and their families from Israel backed by foreign powers pushed by rich and affluent Jewish diaspora.
if it is cool for Israel to steal others' land and pushing those people and their 'kids' into poverty followed by radicalism (which turns back to Israel as stabbing or resistance) so i believe it must be normal flow of life if some Israelis get stabbed in the meantime. It is the price to pay, they did not see this coming? Where in the world people are willingly to get their land stolen? haven't they expected a reaction? c'mon!
Bc what i see is phosphorus bombs when Israel wants to protect their land and families, no? what is a knife when you compare with cruel and unmerciful phosphorus bomb?

as i said before, it is a price to pay for Israeli if they want to steal cheap and illegitimate land belong to others forcefully and illegally and if their innocent kids are paying this grim price, shame on their fathers, authorities and politicians in Israel!
again and again, it is the fault of Israelis if a small innocent Israeli kid is stabbed.

It's hard to know where to start rebutting the ignorance and downright lies of some of our esteemed members. You are conflating Palestinian civil disobedience with a wholesale embargo on Israel by the EU. Total fantasy as recent rulings against BDS demonstrate. White phosphorous was never used in a weaponized form by Israel, as was recently refuted also. Huge sums of money flow into Gaza and the West Bank, straight into the bank accounts of their leaders.

The Palestinian authority are dealing with a population incited and indoctrinated by their leaders from cradle to grave. It is this which is responsible for the predicament of Palestinian security personnel.
The link which you will ignore shows Palestinian parents condemning the hatred and incitement, which are all that is available by way of children's programs. Abbas should be tried by the ICC for child abuse on a national scale.

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=340&fld_id=340&doc_id=17365

What's your point?
It's hard to see it through the fog.
Although I do sympathize with your dilemma.
The Israeli position can't be presented in a simple and concise form because it is indefensible by all standards of international law and justice.

So speaks the voice who apologizes for terrorists who stab civilians to death, yet deems it 'indefensible' when the Israeli army go after the perpetrators. No change there then, it really burns you when Jews have the cheek to defend themselves.

[Morch]

ANY violence carried out in the name of resisting occupations is "freedom fighting"? Attacks carried out against civilians within Israel included? Attacks against kids of Israeli illegal settlers are cool too? Anything goes?

I did not justify nor condone the Israeli occupation. Not on this topic or others. In the same way, there was no "defense" of Israel offered in this topic, more a position in favor of maintaining the security coordination. Do keep up before posting nonsense.

I believe Forum rules mention repeated comments on posting style.

Palestinians need to stop any kind of Israel cooperation until sanctions to Israel gets tougher. If they start to ban Israelis to travel EU and if they grant them embargo same as Iran, i am sure they will be broken hard and faster than Iran bc Israel has nothign but sand! then peace might prevail over those unfortunate lands.

and yes, exactly we call it freedom fighting, resistance or whatever you name it. bc those people there just trying to protect their own stolen land and their families from Israel backed by foreign powers pushed by rich and affluent Jewish diaspora.

if it is cool for Israel to steal others' land and pushing those people and their 'kids' into poverty followed by radicalism (which turns back to Israel as stabbing or resistance) so i believe it must be normal flow of life if some Israelis get stabbed in the meantime. It is the price to pay, they did not see this coming? Where in the world people are willingly to get their land stolen? haven't they expected a reaction? c'mon!

Bc what i see is phosphorus bombs when Israel wants to protect their land and families, no? what is a knife when you compare with cruel and unmerciful phosphorus bomb?

as i said before, it is a price to pay for Israeli if they want to steal cheap and illegitimate land belong to others forcefully and illegally and if their innocent kids are paying this grim price, shame on their fathers, authorities and politicians in Israel!

again and again, it is the fault of Israelis if a small innocent Israeli kid is stabbed.

And another keyboard warrior emerges....

Palestinian should suffer more for the cause. Lovely.

Palestinians in the West Bank will be the ones paying for such "heroic" stance, no doubt a small price to pay in the eyes of some.

Peace coming about when Israel (all sand...right) is broken. Sounds like a fine foundation for peace. Of course, if presented in the opposite direction in would be evil, immoral and unjust.

So basically, you condone any violence, regardless against whom it is directed, as long as it is made in the name of resisting occupation. Well done. At least you are honest about your moral point of view. Now, when there's a reaction (or counter-reaction, whatever) and Palestinians get hurt over such attacks - do the same rules apply? (as in "they didn't see it coming?!"). Guess not, as it is only the Israelis to blame when their kids are getting stabbed.

if we look for a keyboard warrior here, i believe it is you.

you take sides and for you violence of israel is right and palestinian's wrong.

and those phosphorus bombs and disproportionate use of force, you never see them i guess and hooked on stabbings of palestinians.

for me whose land is stolen, that side is right and whoever started this by stealing land of others are wrong and responsible for all these.

so of course whatever happens, it is totally the responsibility of the land thieves and any righteous person not being brainwashed by zionist propoganda believes so. but not you?

so if someone comes to your land and forcefully wants to take it, you just turn your other cheek to them like jesus and dont resist? please just a simple answer.

if israelis dragging their kids into this bloody affair, they are responsible from their kids too.

and yes, israel deserves an embargo and international ban just bc they dont obey international rules and creating constant aggression for some pieces of desert, many supporting this 'reality'.

embargo for poor palestinians there by aggressor israel? as long as it is their land stolen and their homes are bombed and getting burning phosphorus showers, yes it is immoral and unjust and evil.

and embargo for israel, they get broken fast and force them to peace as i said if no support of usa or eu, israel has nothing but sand.

you are just doing a word salad my friend.

Making things up again....

I'm not the one condoning violence - you were. There wasn't a post by me on this topic (or elsewhere) justifying the Israeli occupation or saying it is right.

And alright, gotcha - all Palestinian attacks are justified, and only Palestinians can have innocent casualties. But it's me "taking sides"...

Israelis dragging their kids into this bloody affair is a no no....Palestinians doing the same is alright? No shred of responsibility there?

As I have posted in the past - my guess is that if I was a Palestinian living under Israeli occupation I would support resistance to the occupation. I also hope that while doing so I will retain certain moral boundaries. The last bit might be lost on you, though.

[dexterm]

Exactly Morch.

Often the voices of the Israel demonization agenda are actively cheerleading for terrorist attacks on innocents, anywhere and everywhere.

Like the Jews murdered in the Paris supermarket, that was done in the name of "freedom fighting" as well.

Not at all.

What happened in Paris was terrorism, pure and simple.

What happens on occupied Palestinian land is justifiable resistance to Israeli aggression.

Palestinian attacks are not, and never were, limited to the occupied territories. Yet even attacks well within Israel are hailed as being carried out as resistance to the occupation. Do such attacks lose some of their legitimacy or does that apply only for attacks carried out anywhere but "between the river and the sea"?

Also, not to take away from the Palestinian's right to resist the Israeli occupation, but does it mean any Palestinian attack carried out in the West Bank is justifiable and should be condoned? Some would say that building a national ethos of resistance to the occupation, does not necessarily have to include murdering children. The fact that many Palestinian children get hurt by IDF actions is bad enough, why emulate it?

I blame their irresponsible Zionist colonists parents. Why put your children's lives at risk by bringing them to live in the illegally occupied West Bank just to save a few shekels by building on stolen property? I also blame the Israeli government for creating the OP situation.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

I strongly suggest that people stay on topic and treat others in a civil manner.

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full...

Morch wrote...

"In other words, you stick with the either/or formulation, without much thought to its implications."

If an implication is 50 more years of illegal occupation and stalling by Israel, I am not in favor of that.

Israel created the problem with its illegal occupation in 1967. Having to take full responsibility for security may force Israel to put up or shut up.It may also force the hand of external pressures on Israel.

Some of the probable implications, as they relate to the Palestinian populace, were mentioned above. Obviously, you do not have much to contribute on that, other than rehashing slogans.

How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians? It seems that your logic advocates worsening the situation of the Palestinian populace as long as it strikes an international PR blow or adds political pressure on Israel. That's exactly the keyboard warrior mentality brought up previously. I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

Your criticism of my posts calling them slogans is itself becoming a slogan, which indicates you have nothing constructive to say to help solve the problems. It's always the too hard basket. No vision. Better stick with the status quo for another 50 years.

>>How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians?

It can't be much worse than it is at present with IDF thugs running amok carte blanche in areas assigned to Palestinian security.

>>I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

You're the one making the assertion. How do you know what Palestinians in the West Bank think? How many Palestinians do Zionists regulary consult about their self determination? With over 20% of the population having at one time or another been incarcerated by the Israeli invaders and occupiers, I don't think they relish 50 more years of the status quo.

As posted earlier: pick someone else to try the table turning. Not impressed.

The 50 years is something you came up with, not included in my posts. Nor did I advocate any status quo.

If you think that it cannot be worse, than take a look at some of the neighboring countries. Things in the Middle East can get real ugly real quick when authority breaks down. If this is not good enough, enough to remember how things panned out last time the Fatah and the Hamas came to blows. Not pretty. Not having the security cooperation with Israel would mean the PA's collapse. No two ways about it. Guess that too could be played out as "more pressure on Israel", but again, what of the local populace?

The assertion that most of the Palestinians are not interested in West Bank turning into another Syria, Libya or Gaza? Or would that be the assertion that the Palestinian are not oblivious to the failings of their leadership and security forces? Well, some of it can be found even on English language sources. Easier if one is not limited by either constraint. Both Palestinian leaderships do not encourage dissent or unflattering comments - journalists, reporters and even the citizenry tend to be somewhat cautious when treading them grounds. But again, if you imagine that each and every Palestinian will readily subscribe to the PA descending into anarchy, knock yourself out with revolutionary fantasies.

How is the West Bank going to turn into another Syria or Libya? Israel would simply be in charge of security and have their hands full having to call up more reservists to the detriment of their economy hopefully. The Israeli public may not like this and decide in the next election that greed for land from the ultra nationalists and messianics just ain't worth the hassle. A much better option would be a secure internationally recognized just peace agreement.

Edited February 29, 2016 by dexterm

[Morch]

Not at all.

What happened in Paris was terrorism, pure and simple.

What happens on occupied Palestinian land is justifiable resistance to Israeli aggression.

Palestinian attacks are not, and never were, limited to the occupied territories. Yet even attacks well within Israel are hailed as being carried out as resistance to the occupation. Do such attacks lose some of their legitimacy or does that apply only for attacks carried out anywhere but "between the river and the sea"?

Also, not to take away from the Palestinian's right to resist the Israeli occupation, but does it mean any Palestinian attack carried out in the West Bank is justifiable and should be condoned? Some would say that building a national ethos of resistance to the occupation, does not necessarily have to include murdering children. The fact that many Palestinian children get hurt by IDF actions is bad enough, why emulate it?

I blame their irresponsible Zionist colonists parents. Why put your children's lives at risk by bringing them to live in the illegally occupied West Bank just to save a few shekels by building on stolen property? I also blame the Israeli government for creating the OP situation.

But no such blame laid upon Palestinian parents, naturally.

A Palestinian attacker cannot make the moral choice not to stab a kid, even in the West Bank? Palestinian are exempt from such dilemmas?

Killing innocents (even if one blames their parents, the kids are presumably innocent. right?) does not have to be ingredient of an armed struggle.

Can't really see how the blanket justification contributes much to the Palestinian cause, even from a PR point of view.

Of course, many of the illegal settlers are there for ideological and religious reasons, but why not wrap them all up as greedy real-estate opportunists.

To be clear, since this may be twisted out of context - I do not support either motivation.

The usual moral double standards again.

And not a word about Palestinian attacks within Israel itself, how predictable.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Morch

[Thorgal]

I think there's no cooperation at all...because they work with 2 completely different judicial systems. Last year an Israeli law has been enforced to jail Palestinian children at age of 12...while Palestinian police has no authority over Israeli occupiers...

Seems that disabled people are no exception :

https://www.rt.com/news/332542-israel-police-flip-wheelchair/

Could not imagine that Palestinian police could do anything to stop this unnecessary violence.

Another typical false analogy that the Palestinian policemen should perhaps 'collaborate more' if the Israeli IDF and police is guilty of excessive violence and reaches again only negative global PR...

Edited February 29, 2016 by Thorgal

[boomerangutang]

That part of the world will continue to be endless problems for our kids and grandkids and beyond. It's the crossroads of human migrations, and has been desertified for centuries. It's not suited for our species. The primary fertilizer there has been human blood for 3,000 years. Blood and sand, what a mix. If I was King of the Dunes, I would instate a program to easily enable tube-tying for any man or woman who requested it. Free. Also free: condoms. With current overpopulation, it's wall to wall misery. It will only get worse as people continue to breed like rabbits (the average Palestinian woman has between 7 and 9 babies). .....and then there's that mean-spirited belief system, gaaaawd, could it be worse?

[Morch]

Some of the probable implications, as they relate to the Palestinian populace, were mentioned above. Obviously, you do not have much to contribute on that, other than rehashing slogans.

How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians? It seems that your logic advocates worsening the situation of the Palestinian populace as long as it strikes an international PR blow or adds political pressure on Israel. That's exactly the keyboard warrior mentality brought up previously. I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

Your criticism of my posts calling them slogans is itself becoming a slogan, which indicates you have nothing constructive to say to help solve the problems. It's always the too hard basket. No vision. Better stick with the status quo for another 50 years.

>>How would Israel retaking full responsibility for security be better for the Palestinians?

It can't be much worse than it is at present with IDF thugs running amok carte blanche in areas assigned to Palestinian security.

>>I doubt that there are many Palestinians living in the West Bank who share your point of view.

You're the one making the assertion. How do you know what Palestinians in the West Bank think? How many Palestinians do Zionists regulary consult about their self determination? With over 20% of the population having at one time or another been incarcerated by the Israeli invaders and occupiers, I don't think they relish 50 more years of the status quo.

As posted earlier: pick someone else to try the table turning. Not impressed.

The 50 years is something you came up with, not included in my posts. Nor did I advocate any status quo.

If you think that it cannot be worse, than take a look at some of the neighboring countries. Things in the Middle East can get real ugly real quick when authority breaks down. If this is not good enough, enough to remember how things panned out last time the Fatah and the Hamas came to blows. Not pretty. Not having the security cooperation with Israel would mean the PA's collapse. No two ways about it. Guess that too could be played out as "more pressure on Israel", but again, what of the local populace?

The assertion that most of the Palestinians are not interested in West Bank turning into another Syria, Libya or Gaza? Or would that be the assertion that the Palestinian are not oblivious to the failings of their leadership and security forces? Well, some of it can be found even on English language sources. Easier if one is not limited by either constraint. Both Palestinian leaderships do not encourage dissent or unflattering comments - journalists, reporters and even the citizenry tend to be somewhat cautious when treading them grounds. But again, if you imagine that each and every Palestinian will readily subscribe to the PA descending into anarchy, knock yourself out with revolutionary fantasies.

How is the West Bank going to turn into another Syria or Libya? Israel would simply be in charge of security and have their hands full having to call up more reservists to the detriment of their economy hopefully. The Israeli public may not like this and decide in the next election that greed for land from the ultra nationalists and messianics just ain't worth the hassle. A much better option would be a secure internationally recognized just peace agreement.

There are various scenarios describing how the West Bank could slide into anarchy. There is no telling how things will pan out, of course, but to assume that the Israelis will simply take charge, or that the Palestinians (probably splintered into rivaling factions) will have a generally agreed upon way of dealing with it - are both far fetched.

Not quite sure what is it posters imagine - the PA security personnel handing in their firearms? Ain't going to happen. Re: Gaza. A dissolution of the PA, and by turn its security apparatus will see a lot of unaccounted for firearms in the West Bank. Many posters are so caught up in the Israeli-Palestinian narrative that they lose sight of divisions within each society. This is usually more so with regard to the Palestinians - less accessible perhaps, and not in-line with the usual Palestinian Cause agenda. So while some of these firearms will be turned against Israelis, there would also be a whole lot of score settling, various armed groups clashing, and general mayhem. Throw into the mix an IDF takeover (less swift than most imagine) - and the lives of the locals would become a nightmare.

Methinks illusions of Palestinian unity would not last much if they were left to sort things out for themselves. The Fatah-Hamas rivalry will not go away, infighting within the Fatah can easily erupt, and various fringe outfits could make a take their own course. All this, without the realistic possibility of IS emerging out of this anarchy.

Now, regardless of how one feels about Israel and its responsibility for the way things are - it is unlikely that under such conditions there would be much serious international pressure applied. It is already hard for the Palestinians to be taken as credible partners with the current division, more so if they are even further splintered.

The PA (and its security forces) are far from perfect, but they are the best available solution under current conditions. The collapse of the PA would spell both anarchy in the West Bank, and the Palestinian having no official voice representing them internationally. Sure that it would make things hard for Israel as well, but is that a reasonable price to pay? Allow me to assert again that most Palestinians are weary of such radical actions and their probable consequences.

The above could be played out in many ways, and to different degrees - circumstances keep on changing in the Middle East. But bottom line, the Palestinians are not well served by actions disrupting whatever fragile order exists. Not when it comes to security and not with reference to their national goals. If the PA goes down there will be no one for Israel to deal with, and no obligation to do so. Just sorting out who speaks for the Palestinians would mean years of delays - surely not a good thing.

We go back now to keyboard warfare - as in advocating other people, thousands of miles away will suffer the results of hastily proposed actions, coupled with unrealistic analysis based on wishes rather than facts.

My posts on this topic are less to do with finding an imaginary ultimate magic solution to the conflict, and more with avoiding further suffering that certain half-baked notions could lead to. Always interesting to see self proclaimed pro-Palestinians advocate courses of action which are bound to end in tears.

[Morch]

@ Thorgal:

The OP gives some details on the security coordination and cooperation between Israel and the PA. There were links provided in topic that expand on this. What you think is immaterial.

There is no requirement for such cooperation to be between equals or that judicial systems would be compatible. Moreover, you ignore that the PA sometimes uses this cooperation for its own ends (as in resolving issues with Hamas rivals).

But of course, the facts don't matter, as long as an irrelevant, but emotional story can be linked.

[boomerangutang]

When numbers of people decline and numbers & variety of indigenous plants and animals increase - that's when I'll celebrate. Yea, I know, it will be a long wait. I'm only good for about another 25 yrs on this planet. But a guy can dream.

[Galactus]

if we look for a keyboard warrior here, i believe it is you.

you take sides and for you violence of israel is right and palestinian's wrong.

and those phosphorus bombs and disproportionate use of force, you never see them i guess and hooked on stabbings of palestinians.

for me whose land is stolen, that side is right and whoever started this by stealing land of others are wrong and responsible for all these.

so of course whatever happens, it is totally the responsibility of the land thieves and any righteous person not being brainwashed by zionist propoganda believes so. but not you?

so if someone comes to your land and forcefully wants to take it, you just turn your other cheek to them like jesus and dont resist? please just a simple answer.

if israelis dragging their kids into this bloody affair, they are responsible from their kids too.

and yes, israel deserves an embargo and international ban just bc they dont obey international rules and creating constant aggression for some pieces of desert, many supporting this 'reality'.

embargo for poor palestinians there by aggressor israel? as long as it is their land stolen and their homes are bombed and getting burning phosphorus showers, yes it is immoral and unjust and evil.

and embargo for israel, they get broken fast and force them to peace as i said if no support of usa or eu, israel has nothing but sand.

you are just doing a word salad my friend.

Making things up again....

I'm not the one condoning violence - you were. There wasn't a post by me on this topic (or elsewhere) justifying the Israeli occupation or saying it is right.

And alright, gotcha - all Palestinian attacks are justified, and only Palestinians can have innocent casualties. But it's me "taking sides"...

Israelis dragging their kids into this bloody affair is a no no....Palestinians doing the same is alright? No shred of responsibility there?

As I have posted in the past - my guess is that if I was a Palestinian living under Israeli occupation I would support resistance to the occupation. I also hope that while doing so I will retain certain moral boundaries. The last bit might be lost on you, though.

I blame their irresponsible Zionist colonists parents. Why put your children's lives at risk by bringing them to live in the illegally occupied West Bank just to save a few shekels by building on stolen property? I also blame the Israeli government for creating the OP situation.

But no such blame laid upon Palestinian parents, naturally.

A Palestinian attacker cannot make the moral choice not to stab a kid, even in the West Bank? Palestinian are exempt from such dilemmas?

Killing innocents (even if one blames their parents, the kids are presumably innocent. right?) does not have to be ingredient of an armed struggle.

Can't really see how the blanket justification contributes much to the Palestinian cause, even from a PR point of view.

Of course, many of the illegal settlers are there for ideological and religious reasons, but why not wrap them all up as greedy real-estate opportunists.

To be clear, since this may be twisted out of context - I do not support either motivation.

The usual moral double standards again.

And not a word about Palestinian attacks within Israel itself, how predictable.

i agree with you too. dont like any type of violence but this is human being. when insecurity and need of survival are felt, desperate actions might follow unfortunately.

as you said, if someone comes to your land to steal it, you might also do some desperate actions and defend your land and property therefore future of your family.

I agree on the kids of Palestinians but they have no choice to go anywhere like Israeli kids which all of them also carry another passport from European countries or USA. But Palestinian kids, there is an embargo and they cannot leave that area.

For me, it is sad to see kids are paying the price from both sides as well. i feel sad, it is not Palestinian or Israeli adults or soldiers resistance whatever but their innocent kids:(

and, again, i dont trust both sides or any religion to be frank. My idea as a dream is; those Israeli and Palestinian states needs to be abolished as a lot of trouble for humankind. These states will never agree with each other it looks like.

and yes both sides are responsible for this bloody affair but i believe Israel as aggressor and illegal occupier and illegal user of disproportionate force has more responsibility of this situation. Israel is wrong here and aggression is turning them as aggression at the end. You kill someone else's kid and that guy turn into radical person too trying to stab some poor Israeli guy.

so that is why i think it is better if Palestinians stop cooperating with Israel and an embargo is needed for Israel at all dimensions to stop this.

or...

they can open a walled and fenced(it is needed for sure so they cannot leave that area:) theme park with 'war' theme with no real guns there and let Israelis and Palestinians play paintball and we watch:) i am ok to pay:)

[Morch]

@Galactus:

As expected, the "I also hope that while doing so I will retain certain moral boundaries" was a wasted effort.

How, exactly, you "don't like any type of violence" - but cheering all Palestinian violence as legitimate and justified?

Not all Israeli kids got EU or USA passports, and even if this was so - it had nothing to do with making them legitimate targets.

As for Palestinians not having a choice, there is always a choice. There is not carved in stone rule that resistance need to be violent or that violence will not have limits. If the Palestinians are automatically absolved from any wrongdoing, or any moral obligation - there is no hope for them, and there shouldn't be. There is no way a society can exist without moral checks.

The logical flow from all of the above to "so that is why i think it is better if Palestinians stop cooperating with Israel" is foggy at best. How would cutting security coordination with Israel improve the situation of the Palestinians in the West Bank? How will it contribute to the realization of Palestinian national wishes? What you support is local populace suffering even more, which might (but probably won't, as illustrated earlier) result in further international pressure on Israel. Offering this while shielding behind a computer screen is pretty much what being a keyboard warrior is all about.

[Galactus]

@Galactus:

As expected, the "I also hope that while doing so I will retain certain moral boundaries" was a wasted effort.

How, exactly, you "don't like any type of violence" - but cheering all Palestinian violence as legitimate and justified?

Not all Israeli kids got EU or USA passports, and even if this was so - it had nothing to do with making them legitimate targets.

As for Palestinians not having a choice, there is always a choice. There is not carved in stone rule that resistance need to be violent or that violence will not have limits. If the Palestinians are automatically absolved from any wrongdoing, or any moral obligation - there is no hope for them, and there shouldn't be. There is no way a society can exist without moral checks.

The logical flow from all of the above to "so that is why i think it is better if Palestinians stop cooperating with Israel" is foggy at best. How would cutting security coordination with Israel improve the situation of the Palestinians in the West Bank? How will it contribute to the realization of Palestinian national wishes? What you support is local populace suffering even more, which might (but probably won't, as illustrated earlier) result in further international pressure on Israel. Offering this while shielding behind a computer screen is pretty much what being a keyboard warrior is all about.

morch, come on brother!

while we are speaking these, Israel is still bulldozing some houses and stealing some land in the meantime.

who likes violence? but if someone comes and get your house out of blue, as you said before you resists, right? and resistance does not come with turning your cheek, no?

it comes with violence unfortunately. so what i am saying, who started the aggression, illegal land occupation and violence, that side is wrong and responsible for all deaths there, jew, muslim kid adult, all.

[Morch]

@Galactus:

As expected, the "I also hope that while doing so I will retain certain moral boundaries" was a wasted effort.

How, exactly, you "don't like any type of violence" - but cheering all Palestinian violence as legitimate and justified?

Not all Israeli kids got EU or USA passports, and even if this was so - it had nothing to do with making them legitimate targets.

As for Palestinians not having a choice, there is always a choice. There is not carved in stone rule that resistance need to be violent or that violence will not have limits. If the Palestinians are automatically absolved from any wrongdoing, or any moral obligation - there is no hope for them, and there shouldn't be. There is no way a society can exist without moral checks.

The logical flow from all of the above to "so that is why i think it is better if Palestinians stop cooperating with Israel" is foggy at best. How would cutting security coordination with Israel improve the situation of the Palestinians in the West Bank? How will it contribute to the realization of Palestinian national wishes? What you support is local populace suffering even more, which might (but probably won't, as illustrated earlier) result in further international pressure on Israel. Offering this while shielding behind a computer screen is pretty much what being a keyboard warrior is all about.

morch, come on brother!

while we are speaking these, Israel is still bulldozing some houses and stealing some land in the meantime.

who likes violence? but if someone comes and get your house out of blue, as you said before you resists, right? and resistance does not come with turning your cheek, no?

it comes with violence unfortunately. so what i am saying, who started the aggression, illegal land occupation and violence, that side is wrong and responsible for all deaths there, jew, muslim kid adult, all.

And once more, you quote me partially - never did I endorse unchecked violence, or said resistance must include violence.

Resistance is not always about violence, there are many other ways to resist. Even when choosing violence, there ought to be limits.

Resisting occupation is not a carte blanche for violence.

The roots of the conflict are more complex than "who started it", and by this point - it doesn't really matter all that much. Well, it matters for people who are bent on being right, rather than salvaging what's left. And no, even if there was a side clearly responsible for starting the conflict, not all death could be laid at their door. That works in kindergarten, maybe.

The OP is about the current shabby state of the Israeli-Palestinian security coordination. If anyone thinks that cutting ties would improve things - they are either clueless or heartless.