CAN THEY DO THAT? Trump favors torture that's illegal

[webfact]

CAN THEY DO THAT? Trump favors torture that's illegal
By DEB RIECHMANN and JILL COLVIN

WASHINGTON (AP) — Tough talk about torture is a guaranteed applause line for Donald Trump on the GOP presidential stump.

Trump has repeatedly advocated waterboarding, an enhanced interrogation technique that simulates the feeling of drowning.

"In the Middle East, we have people chopping the heads off Christians. ... I would bring back waterboarding and I'd bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding," he said to applause in a recent debate, without ever specifying what "a lot worse" would entail.

"I don't think we go far enough," he said, drawing loud clapping at a rally last week in Las Vegas.

"We don't go far enough," he repeated, prompting now-thundering applause and chants of "USA! USA!"

Trouble is, waterboarding and "a lot worse" interrogation techniques are illegal.

To bring it back, Trump would have to get Congress to repeal the law that prohibits it. That could be an uphill battle. Last June, Republicans joined all 44 Senate Democrats in voting 78-21 to reaffirm a ban on harsh interrogation techniques.

That vote came just months after a Senate intelligence committee report denounced brutal interrogation methods as ineffective.

"In general, what I've taken away from our practices and what the research shows is that the rapport-based techniques — that we operate under and focus on — are shown to elicit greater detail in a quicker fashion," said Frazier Thompson, director of the High-Value Detainee Interrogation Group, a secretive team of interrogators from the FBI, Defense Department, the CIA and other intelligence agencies that interrogates top suspects believed linked to plots against the U.S. or its allies.

"Every individual is different and every situation is different," Thompson said, adding that it's important to know where the suspect is emotionally and intellectually so that an interrogator with the right skill set can build rapport and elicit intelligence.

Trump, however, told voters in Bluffton, South Carolina, simply that, "torture works."

The Army Field Manual specifically bans the military from using so-called enhanced interrogation techniques, including waterboarding. However the CIA used waterboarding after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and other methods that are illegal under domestic or international law. Those included some physical contact such as slapping and slamming an inmate and psychological torture. One inmate at a secret CIA "black site" died of exposure, according to the Senate panel's report.

In 2009, Obama issued an executive order saying all U.S. government personnel and contractors — not just those in the military — are prohibited from using any interrogation techniques that aren't in the Army Field Manual.

Last year, Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California and Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona introduced an amendment to the 2016 defense policy bill that essentially put the executive order into law. Feinstein said it was important because a future president could lift Obama's executive order.

This year, after hearing Trump and other GOP presidential candidates talk favorably about torture, McCain weighed in. McCain was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967, held as a prisoner of war in Hanoi and tortured before his captors released him six years later.

"Given the loose talk on the campaign trail about reviving waterboarding and other inhumane interrogation techniques, it is important to remember the facts," McCain said.

"These forms of torture not only failed their purpose to secure actionable intelligence to prevent further attacks on the U.S. and our allies, but compromised our values, stained our national honor and did little practical good," he added.

Some of McCain's Republican colleagues and some former CIA officials, however, maintain that waterboarding and other harsh methods have yielded vital intelligence.

In his book, "The Great War of Our Time," former deputy CIA director Mike Morell argued that the techniques used on al-Qaida detainees by the CIA produced crucially important intelligence. "I believe that waterboarding was one of the two most effective of the all the harsh techniques (the other being sleep deprivation)," he wrote.

Americans remain split on the issue.

In a poll conducted 10 years after the 2001 attacks, 52 percent of Americans favored harsh interrogation techniques against individuals suspected of terrorism. Fifty-two percent said torture can sometimes or often be justified while 46 percent thought torture was never or rarely justified.

The 2011 poll of 1,087 adults by The Associated Press and the NORC Center for Public Affairs Research at the University of Chicago had a margin of error of plus or minus 4.1 percentage points.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-03-01

[ezzra]

Right now and the way he's thundering forward in the polls, he can proclaim himself to be

the savior and the new messiah Donald Christ and people will applauds him....

just like 8 years ago where people were captivated and mesmerized by an unknown black senator

from nowhere with the gift of the gob and ' yes we can ' slogan and promises of the change to all

that turned out to be a non starter and a leader from behind, so dose Trump now, the new Obama

phenomenon if you like..... but with balls of Steele....

[jackh]

I have always believed that these "identified" terrorists have but one solid connection to reality......family. Their ties and allegiance to their family are stronger than their Islam ideology. Therefore I always believed that to capture and arrest the terrorist's family members would be an effective strategy at stopping these suicide bombers dead i their tracks.

The CIA or whomever should task themselves with having their family dissappear. I think even Trump eluded to this suggestion earlier.

[NeverSure]

OUT: Waterboarding terrorists.

IN: Apologizing for and sympathizing with terrorists.

[yankee99]

OUT: Waterboarding terrorists.

IN: Apologizing for and sympathizing with terrorists.

Not PC: Waterboarding terrorists.

PC: Apologizing for and sympathizing with terrorists.

[Emster23]

Waterboarding doesn't "simulate drowning" it is drowning. Going after terrorist families is a war crime, crime against humanity. Nazis did it all the time, Israel does it by destroying homes rather than making family "disappear" (Why don't you say "cold blooded murder"?). The temptation to use tactics of terrorists is great, which is just what terrorists want, then can point at "civilized" nations and say "See, they do it!". Gitmo was great recruiting tool and did nothing to increase knowledge of what was being planned (see senate report). If west gives up ideal of no cruel or unusual punishment, indiscriminate retribution, then we have already lost.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Emster23

[expat_4_life]

OUT: Waterboarding terrorists.

IN: Apologizing for and sympathizing with terrorists.

IN: Starting multiple illegal wars from Libya to Syria. Then having the gall to call it

the Arab Spring, conjuring images of beautiful little flowers and blooming trees.

OUT: All common sense

Americans are being played by the Media/Politicians/Oligarchs to serve their interests, not ours.

Obama and Clinton should be standing trial for war crimes.

End the madness, vote Trump 2016.

Edited March 1, 2016 by expat_4_life

[boomerangutang]

Trump again doing what he does best: Grabbing headlines.

As Bill Clinton said recently: Trump is a master at branding. His buildings and all his products have his name. He brags about not spending too many millions on his campaign because he gets free publicity every time he opens his pie hole and says something outlandish. True.

I'm going to invent a new game. It's called Trumpisms. You get a small group of people to sit around, and one by one, they voice a probable Trumpism. It would go something like this:

1st person: Let's ship all Canadians to Canada, and we'll make Canada pay for the buses.

2nd person: We're going to nuke ISIS and we'll make ISIS pay up front for the nukes.

3rd person: Let's take over Hainan for the 51st state, so we can get cheap labor and it's in the USA

4th person: We're going to take over Cayman Islands, so all that cash will be in US banks.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not a Trump fan, but his common sense solutions -that PC politicians reject - are why so much of the population are embracing him. That law against waterboarding should never have been passed. Torturing Islamic terrorists should be avoided until absolutely necessary, but it should be tolerated if warranted by circumstances. It is a lie that torture does not work. Bin Ladin would still be alive without it.

[canathai8]

OUT: Waterboarding terrorists.

IN: Apologizing for and sympathizing with terrorists.

IN: Starting multiple illegal wars from Libya to Syria. Then having the gall to call it

the Arab Spring, conjuring images of beautiful little flowers and blooming trees.

OUT: All common sense

Americans are being played by the Media/Politicians/Oligarchs to serve their interests, not ours.

Obama and Clinton should be standing trial for war crimes.

End the madness, vote Trump 2016.

I would consider that if I was an American.. from this vantage point..

There's not much choice, outside Hilary it seems

On a semi-related note: Where are all the really good candidates - ones like Martin Luther King Jr. JFK, or his brother Bobby? Hell, add Lincoln to that group..

When you're too good - it seems it's no good for too many..

[manarak]

why are all these things dragged out into the open?

let the CIA and DHS do their work in secret using any effective methods sanctioned by hierarchy.

torture, illegal searches, illegal detentions, illegal bugging should all be banned and their results not usable in court, but they should all be usable by intelligence and counter-terrorism services.

Edited March 1, 2016 by manarak

[manarak]

I'm not a Trump fan, but his common sense solutions -that PC politicians reject - are why so much of the population are embracing him. That law against waterboarding should never have been passed. Torturing Islamic terrorists should be avoided until absolutely necessary, but it should be tolerated if warranted by circumstances. It is a lie that torture does not work. Bin Ladin would still be alive without it.

I had already asked about it - are there statistics anywhere on how effective torture is for extracting information ?

[Ulysses G.]

why are all these things dragged out into the open?

let the CIA and DHS do their work in secret using any effective methods sanctioned by hierarchy.

Exactly right. Torture is an important weapon against Islamic terrorism and other violent criminals, but it should be hush hush.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not a Trump fan, but his common sense solutions -that PC politicians reject - are why so much of the population are embracing him. That law against waterboarding should never have been passed. Torturing Islamic terrorists should be avoided until absolutely necessary, but it should be tolerated if warranted by circumstances. It is a lie that torture does not work. Bin Ladin would still be alive without it.

I had already asked about it - are there statistics anywhere on how effective torture is for extracting information ?

I don't think it possible to provide accurate statistics and there are plenty of people willing to lie to prevent their use. The CIA thought they worked and there have been numerous reports that Bin Ladin was caught because of them.

[lannarebirth]

I'm not a Trump fan, but his common sense solutions -that PC politicians reject - are why so much of the population are embracing him. That law against waterboarding should never have been passed. Torturing Islamic terrorists should be avoided until absolutely necessary, but it should be tolerated if warranted by circumstances. It is a lie that torture does not work. Bin Ladin would still be alive without it.

I'm not sure people embrace Trump due to his common sense solutions. The most attractive thing I see about him is that he may accelerate a bottoming out for America. One from which it can rebuild. Almost anything would be better than the managed decline that's been going on for years now.

I'm waiting for him to say something about America's foreign held debt. "Friends can expect repayment, but enemies maybe not." That ought to get interests rates back up.

Edited March 1, 2016 by lannarebirth

[grumpyoldman]

OUT: Waterboarding terrorists.

IN: Apologizing for and sympathizing with terrorists.

IN: Starting multiple illegal wars from Libya to Syria. Then having the gall to call it

the Arab Spring, conjuring images of beautiful little flowers and blooming trees.

OUT: All common sense

Americans are being played by the Media/Politicians/Oligarchs to serve their interests, not ours.

Obama and Clinton should be standing trial for war crimes.

End the madness, vote Trump 2016.

Classic right winger altering history to suit their ends.

Pal, Bush started the wars in the ME, he destabilized the region which has led to Al Queda now morphed into ISIS. For those of you that actually get their knowledge from books (as opposed to Fox News) Rise of Isis by Jay Sekulow will enlighten you.

Trump is racist, a bigot, a hypocrite, a liar, and a vote for him is a vote to go backwards in the U.S. America will not be great under this fool/tool.

[spidermike007]

I have always believed that these "identified" terrorists have but one solid connection to reality......family. Their ties and allegiance to their family are stronger than their Islam ideology. Therefore I always believed that to capture and arrest the terrorist's family members would be an effective strategy at stopping these suicide bombers dead i their tracks.

The CIA or whomever should task themselves with having their family dissappear. I think even Trump eluded to this suggestion earlier.

Absolutely brilliant strategy. It would probably work. Though with the level of brainwashing these clowns receive, it may be a pathological Scientology type syndrome, where they even write off their own family members, for the sake of the cause. But, it would be worth a try.

Would love to see the look on their faces when their younger sisters were being held prisoner, and threatened with being treated in the same manner that they treat women they kidnap and abuse, at random, and with malice. That would be really fun to witness. I, and many people would even pay a fee to watch that either live, or on pay per view. How is that for an alternative funding method to asking congress for permission?

The reality is that with the continued refusal of moderate Muslims in positions of authority and power, to speak out against the extremist worms, the general public worldwide is getting angrier by the day. I fear that we continue heading toward a World War on all Muslims, no matter how moderate they are, down the road. That is why people are continuing to back Trump, no matter how inflammatory his rhetoric becomes. He knows this, and is working it to great advantage. He is a master at manipulating the public, their fears, and their weaknesses.

[Ulysses G.]

Pal, Bush started the wars in the ME

Show me the "book" that says Bush invaded Libya. That is all on Obama and Clinton and was completely stupid. You would think they would have figured it out by then!

[NeverSure]

Pal, Bush started the wars in the ME

Show me the "book" that says Bush invaded Libya. That is all on Obama and Clinton and was completely stupid. You would think they would have figured it out by then!

He's totally uninformed. Libya was a NATO exercise led by France. All of NATO including of course the UK participated.

The UK provided 1/3 of the troops for the Iraq invasion. The UK was involved in all of those wars. Australia had its finger in the pies, too.

Haters are going to hate.

[manarak]

I'm not a Trump fan, but his common sense solutions -that PC politicians reject - are why so much of the population are embracing him. That law against waterboarding should never have been passed. Torturing Islamic terrorists should be avoided until absolutely necessary, but it should be tolerated if warranted by circumstances. It is a lie that torture does not work. Bin Ladin would still be alive without it.

I had already asked about it - are there statistics anywhere on how effective torture is for extracting information ?

I don't think it possible to provide accurate statistics and there are plenty of people willing to lie to prevent their use. The CIA thought they worked and there have been numerous reports that Bin Ladin was caught because of them.

There must be statistics somewhere.

I would have expected at least the GESTAPO to have collected some.

[ThaiKneeTim]

why are all these things dragged out into the open?

let the CIA and DHS do their work in secret using any effective methods sanctioned by hierarchy.

Exactly right. Torture is an important weapon against Islamic terrorism and other violent criminals, but it should be hush hush.

Torture is an important weapon of terrorism.

There, fixed that for you!

[mike324]

OUT: Waterboarding terrorists.

IN: Apologizing for and sympathizing with terrorists.

IN: Starting multiple illegal wars from Libya to Syria. Then having the gall to call it

the Arab Spring, conjuring images of beautiful little flowers and blooming trees.

OUT: All common sense

Americans are being played by the Media/Politicians/Oligarchs to serve their interests, not ours.

Obama and Clinton should be standing trial for war crimes.

End the madness, vote Trump 2016.

Classic right winger altering history to suit their ends.

Pal, Bush started the wars in the ME, he destabilized the region which has led to Al Queda now morphed into ISIS. For those of you that actually get their knowledge from books (as opposed to Fox News) Rise of Isis by Jay Sekulow will enlighten you.

Trump is racist, a bigot, a hypocrite, a liar, and a vote for him is a vote to go backwards in the U.S. America will not be great under this fool/tool.

Well said, many folks don't know their history well enough.... Trump is the biggest idiot in the political circle, the first one was Sarah Palin.

[ThaiKneeTim]

OUT: Waterboarding terrorists.

IN: Apologizing for and sympathizing with terrorists.

IN: Starting multiple illegal wars from Libya to Syria. Then having the gall to call it

the Arab Spring, conjuring images of beautiful little flowers and blooming trees.

OUT: All common sense

Americans are being played by the Media/Politicians/Oligarchs to serve their interests, not ours.

Obama and Clinton should be standing trial for war crimes.

End the madness, vote Trump 2016.

Classic right winger altering history to suit their ends.

Pal, Bush started the wars in the ME, he destabilized the region which has led to Al Queda now morphed into ISIS. For those of you that actually get their knowledge from books (as opposed to Fox News) Rise of Isis by Jay Sekulow will enlighten you.

Trump is racist, a bigot, a hypocrite, a liar, and a vote for him is a vote to go backwards in the U.S. America will not be great under this fool/tool.

Your book suggestion is noted. May I throw 'The New Great Game' by Lutz Kleveman into the ring!?

http://www.newgreatgame.com

[yardrunner]

why are all these things dragged out into the open?

let the CIA and DHS do their work in secret using any effective methods sanctioned by hierarchy.

Exactly right. Torture is an important weapon against Islamic terrorism and other violent criminals, but it should be hush hush.

so if it is hush hush it is under the radar and no one is accountable and that is the definition of a police state or a dictatorship, if torture is used those who use it must expect to be charged at the international court in the Hague and hopefully serve long prison sentences

[scorecard]

Anybody want this fool holding the keys to the ballistic missiles etc?

[grumpyoldman]

Pal, Bush started the wars in the ME

Show me the "book" that says Bush invaded Libya. That is all on Obama and Clinton and was completely stupid. You would think they would have figured it out by then!

Actually I'm going to change from right wingers to right "whinger's".

UlyssesG with that post you prove you have no idea what you are talking about. As another poster has mentioned it was a NATO coalition move against what is a regional civil war among multiple groups.

Complicated but I don't expect people who get their info from Fox News to understand.

[manarak]

why are all these things dragged out into the open?

let the CIA and DHS do their work in secret using any effective methods sanctioned by hierarchy.

Exactly right. Torture is an important weapon against Islamic terrorism and other violent criminals, but it should be hush hush.

so if it is hush hush it is under the radar and no one is accountable and that is the definition of a police state or a dictatorship, if torture is used those who use it must expect to be charged at the international court in the Hague and hopefully serve long prison sentences

so naive and PC, LOL.

the state has to be able to employ extreme measures on an exceptional basis, in secret and with democratic supervision and accountability.

transparency should be guaranteed to the top levels of government and total secrecy beyond.

[Ulysses G.]

Pal, Bush started the wars in the ME

Show me the "book" that says Bush invaded Libya. That is all on Obama and Clinton and was completely stupid. You would think they would have figured it out by then!

UlyssesG with that post you prove you have no idea what you are talking about. As another poster has mentioned it was a NATO coalition move against what is a regional civil war among multiple groups.

Who do you think pushed through the UN Resolution that justified the NATO attack? Who said, 'nothing is off the table" when it comes to Libya? Who misled the American people and ignored congress to go to war? Obama and Hillary were in it up to their eyeballs and Bush had nothing to do with it at all.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Linzz]

I have always believed that these "identified" terrorists have but one solid connection to reality......family. Their ties and allegiance to their family are stronger than their Islam ideology. Therefore I always believed that to capture and arrest the terrorist's family members would be an effective strategy at stopping these suicide bombers dead i their tracks.

The CIA or whomever should task themselves with having their family dissappear. I think even Trump eluded to this suggestion earlier.

Absolutely brilliant strategy. It would probably work. Though with the level of brainwashing these clowns receive, it may be a pathological Scientology type syndrome, where they even write off their own family members, for the sake of the cause. But, it would be worth a try.

Would love to see the look on their faces when their younger sisters were being held prisoner, and threatened with being treated in the same manner that they treat women they kidnap and abuse, at random, and with malice. That would be really fun to witness. I, and many people would even pay a fee to watch that either live, or on pay per view. How is that for an alternative funding method to asking congress for permission?

The reality is that with the continued refusal of moderate Muslims in positions of authority and power, to speak out against the extremist worms, the general public worldwide is getting angrier by the day. I fear that we continue heading toward a World War on all Muslims, no matter how moderate they are, down the road. That is why people are continuing to back Trump, no matter how inflammatory his rhetoric becomes. He knows this, and is working it to great advantage. He is a master at manipulating the public, their fears, and their weaknesses.

You could be right. But a war on all Muslims moderate or not is precisely what ISIS wants. They are fundamentalists and they see things in black and white. Moderate Muslims are apostates unless they return to the fundamentalist fold.That's why they bomb the West at every opportunity not just to hurt us but to whip up hatred against all Muslims so they are forced back into fundamentalism and extremism, then they are achieving their dream Muslim state.

ISIS probably would prefer Trump if he carries out his threats to deal to them, the loss of life would translate into martyrs and their strengthen cause. But I don't blame Trump, it was Bush that removed Hussein and created the destabilization of the Middle East. Even Trump said that Hussein should have remained because he killed terrorists and blamed Bush for the war.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Linzz

[spidermike007]

I have always believed that these "identified" terrorists have but one solid connection to reality......family. Their ties and allegiance to their family are stronger than their Islam ideology. Therefore I always believed that to capture and arrest the terrorist's family members would be an effective strategy at stopping these suicide bombers dead i their tracks.

The CIA or whomever should task themselves with having their family dissappear. I think even Trump eluded to this suggestion earlier.

Absolutely brilliant strategy. It would probably work. Though with the level of brainwashing these clowns receive, it may be a pathological Scientology type syndrome, where they even write off their own family members, for the sake of the cause. But, it would be worth a try.

Would love to see the look on their faces when their younger sisters were being held prisoner, and threatened with being treated in the same manner that they treat women they kidnap and abuse, at random, and with malice. That would be really fun to witness. I, and many people would even pay a fee to watch that either live, or on pay per view. How is that for an alternative funding method to asking congress for permission?

The reality is that with the continued refusal of moderate Muslims in positions of authority and power, to speak out against the extremist worms, the general public worldwide is getting angrier by the day. I fear that we continue heading toward a World War on all Muslims, no matter how moderate they are, down the road. That is why people are continuing to back Trump, no matter how inflammatory his rhetoric becomes. He knows this, and is working it to great advantage. He is a master at manipulating the public, their fears, and their weaknesses.

You could be right. But a war on all Muslims moderate or not is precisely what ISIS wants. They are fundamentalists and they see things in black and white. Moderate Muslims are apostates unless they return to the fundamentalist fold.That's why they bomb the West at every opportunity not just to hurt us but to whip up hatred against all Muslims so they are forced back into fundamentalism and extremism, then they are achieving their dream Muslim state.

ISIS probably would prefer Trump if he carries out his threats to deal to them, the loss of life would translate into martyrs and their strengthen cause. But I don't blame Trump, it was Bush that removed Hussein and created the destabilization of the Middle East. Even Trump said that Hussein should have remained because he killed terrorists and blamed Bush for the war.

I could not agree more, about Iraq. It was single handedly perhaps the greatest foreign policy blunder in the history of the US, and there have been dozens. There was no connection whatsoever, and the Neocon goombahs were merely looking for an easy scapegoat, and they figured in all of their glorious historical and geopolitical ignorance, that they could take over the Iraqi oilfields in the process. That is precisely why they allowed every ministry and institution in the country to be destroyed, except the Oil Ministry. Even the National Museum was destroyed, with the greatest collection of Mesopotamian art the world. Half those treasures have not been recovered, to date. One single tank or armored vehicle parked at the entrance would have been all it took to protect the place. I would venture to guess Cheney has many of those works in his personal collection. Perhaps including the Golden Harp of Samaria, one of the greatest treasures of all. For many of us, there is no doubt those neocon super freaks profited greatly from the war. Great fortunes were made, and much of that money spent was never accounted for. Many, many billions.

The Red Cross estimates as many as 300-400 thousand Iraqi civilians were killed in that senseless war. And they are still being killed, or leaving the country. What for? What was accomplished? Saddam was a pig, but he did keep the place stable. He helped keep the entire region stable. Would the Syrian conflict ever have happened if Saddam was still there? Would ISIS ever have been established if Saddam was still there? The regional destability that was caused by that move is staggering. Cheney and Tiny George II should have been executed for that move alone. I consider many aspects of that war, and the actions leading up to it to be treasonous crimes. What is the punishment for treason?

If you are going to take out a pig like that, take them all out. Both Castro brothers, Mugabe, the entire Boko Harem freak show, all of ISIS, Fat Kim, Hun Sen, Than Shwe, and a few more. Otherwise, leave the world alone, and fix your own problems at home, which are too countless to even begin accounting for.