Airport's Aircraft Parking Bays And A Taxiway Closed For Repairs

[mavisnt]

Hi all,

Today I see that they are working on the tarmac.

So no worrie everyting will be alright

after reading all the comments about the new and exciting! airport I am glad we are not arriving there till April next year, at least we stand a chance off

not falling into a hole or disapearing into arrivals never to get through the madding crowd!

but as already said .....TIT.....mprai.isnt this the reason we are all in this fantastic country anyway?

[AlexLah]

Quote:Oh. I feel so reassured by your well thought out, considered and expert analasis.

Have you seen the other thread about: Can a farang ever be Thai?

Quote: So no worrie everyting will be alright

Well at least I am trying

[sriracha john]

ok, so they've started the job to repair the cracks in the tarmac, so what could possibly go wrong?

well... here's one thing:

Bulldozer destroyed after it catches on fire

AIRPORT :A bulldozer caught fire while it was scraping uneven tarmac on a taxiway at Suvarnabhumi airport yesterday. No one was injured.

The incident happened on the taxiway near concourse building G of the airport where repairs to an uneven tarmac were underway, according to Suvarnabhumi airport general manager Somchai Sawasdeepon.

The bulldozer caught fire because of a leaking fuel pipe and was destroyed in the 10 minutes it took to put the fire out.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/03Nov2006_news10.php

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm.... ten minutes to put out a fire on a bulldozer... how long would a fire on a Boeing 747 airplane take to put out? All afternoon??

[sriracha john]

Taxiway cracks 'caused by water'

Excessive underground water in and outside Suvarnabhumi airport is the cause of recently-found cracks on its taxiways, says the Engineering Institute of Thailand (EIT). The water needs to be controlled more efficiently to solve the problem, it said. The EIT released the findings of an investigation after uneven and cracked taxiways and parking bays were found last month at the airport, which opened in September. EIT director Suebsak Phromboon said the airport's asphaltic concrete pavement was soaked for too long and became too soft to bear aircraft weight. He attributed the problem to the airport's failure to minimise the amount of water in the airport's ditches. Consequently, the level of underground water surged and eventually seeped upwards to the layer of the asphaltic concrete pavement, he said. Airport authorities could not drain the water from the airport ditches as that would affect the surrounding community, already hit by floods. Excessive use of underground water in the vicinity of Suvarnabhumi airport, which causes subsidence, could worsen the cracks over time, Mr Suebsak warned. When asked if the cracks had anything to do with defects in design, construction or materials, he said an in-depth investigation was needed. Airport authorities must see if the problem still recurs after the surface is repaired and water is better controlled. A source at Airports of Thailand Plc insisted there were no flaws in water management at the airport, adding the problem stemmed from excessive use of underground water in Samut Prakan province, where the airport is situated.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/04Nov2006_news16.php

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no word yet on when they will move the airport to a more practical area...

[nullx8]

dnt worry boys ... no delays ;-)

they using now runnway 1 for landing AND takeoff same time ..

where the planes waiting for takeoff just waiting before and after the closed taxiways ;-)

i can see the activity from my building every day ...

also seen small planes using the second taxiway to takeoff while sametime landing on the runnway happens ...

just a timequestion for a ccident ...

the closures of the taxiways are in the same time the airport changed

inflight route from north to south ...

by this change they able to use taxiways for takeoffs ;-)

[nullx8]

Hmmm.... ten minutes to put out a fire on a bulldozer... how long would a fire on a Boeing 747 airplane take to put out? All afternoon??

well the fireguard building is on the noth end of the airport ...

its take a while to get rid of the taxis ....

the cars have also to cross the northern connecion streets before get into the field.

i saw the dust of the fire yesterday ...

nothing changed .. still just 3 planes in jam waiting for takeoff ...

so everything normal ;-)

[khaosai]

dnt worry boys ... no delays ;-)

they using now runnway 1 for landing AND takeoff same time ..

where the planes waiting for takeoff just waiting before and after the closed taxiways ;-)

i can see the activity from my building every day ...

also seen small planes using the second taxiway to takeoff while sametime landing on the runnway happens ...

just a timequestion for a ccident ...

the closures of the taxiways are in the same time the airport changed

inflight route from north to south ...

by this change they able to use taxiways for takeoffs ;-)

Hi altf4,

I find it hard to believe the Thai airport authorities are allowing take off's from a taxiway, even though you mention the aircraft are small. This would not happen at a major international aiport regardless of aircraft size, however i stand to be corrected.

When this sort of thing happens, the taxiway is normally designated as a standby runway on the airfield charts, and i have not seen that mentioned but will have a closer look when next at work.

Commercial aircraft require a certain runway width, thus most taxiways are not wide enough, or for that matter have the correct runway markings. You also have the problem of calculating runway performance based on take off run available etc and which applies to all aircraft regardless of size.

I will be there in a few weeks myself so will get a good look at things up close and if anything of interest appears i will let you know.

Rgds.

[bkkandrew]

Taxiway cracks 'caused by water'

Excessive underground water in and outside Suvarnabhumi airport is the cause of recently-found cracks on its taxiways, says the Engineering Institute of Thailand (EIT). The water needs to be controlled more efficiently to solve the problem, it said. The EIT released the findings of an investigation after uneven and cracked taxiways and parking bays were found last month at the airport, which opened in September. EIT director Suebsak Phromboon said the airport's asphaltic concrete pavement was soaked for too long and became too soft to bear aircraft weight. He attributed the problem to the airport's failure to minimise the amount of water in the airport's ditches. Consequently, the level of underground water surged and eventually seeped upwards to the layer of the asphaltic concrete pavement, he said. Airport authorities could not drain the water from the airport ditches as that would affect the surrounding community, already hit by floods. Excessive use of underground water in the vicinity of Suvarnabhumi airport, which causes subsidence, could worsen the cracks over time, Mr Suebsak warned. When asked if the cracks had anything to do with defects in design, construction or materials, he said an in-depth investigation was needed. Airport authorities must see if the problem still recurs after the surface is repaired and water is better controlled. A source at Airports of Thailand Plc insisted there were no flaws in water management at the airport, adding the problem stemmed from excessive use of underground water in Samut Prakan province, where the airport is situated.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/04Nov2006_news16.php

Or defects in locating the place in a swamp...??

[sriracha john]

UPDATE... with as the little girl in the movie Poltergeist says, "they're baaaack"

Those gosh darn cracks just refuse to go away... but it's ok, they are only on the take-off area of the runway so there's nothing to be concerned about:

More woes at troubled new airport

Runway subsidence claims, probe ordered

Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen has ordered an investigation into a report of land subsidence and cracks on a runway at Suvarnabhumi airport. But the airport's director Somchai Sawasdeepol denied there was any subsidence in the runway now in use although he agreed experts must find the cause of problems on taxiways. Adm Theera said he ordered agencies to conduct an investigation immediately after receiving the report. According to an AoT source, cracks were found at the takeoff area of the western runway.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/20Jan2007_news03.php

[lomatopo]

Duplicate post deleted.

[lomatopo]

It's possible that the two main runways (1R-19L/1L-19R) will remain unaffected by the loss of control of groundwater levels affecting some taxiways/aprons as they were built to much more rigorous standards. In the event that one of the runways does become impacted then they won't be able to re-open DMK fast enough. The third runway under construction will help somewhat with overall capacity but not that much.

AFAIK there are not a lot of long waits for departures, nor are there many holds for arrivals. At some peak arrival times aircraft are notified about possible holds by Bangkok Control, which might be on the order of 5 ~ 10 minutes, but these are usually waived off. Holds are sometimes put in place when landing operations (runway direction) are changed. The new BKK can handle many more departures and arrivals (per hour) than was possible at Don Muang due to increased runway separation, increased modes of operation and no requirement for aircraft to cross an active runway (as was the case when "playing through the golf course").

Aircraft are not landing nor taking off at Suvarnabhumi from taxiways. There are seven modes of operation at the new airport, with the preferred mode (#4), "semi-mixed" being departures only on runway 19L and arrivals on both runways 19L and 19R. The other modes are combinations of "segregated", "semi-mixed" and "mixed" operations.

9. Modes of Operation

9.1 Selected Modes of Operation for Suvarnabhumi International Airport .

Segregated Parallel Approaches / Departures (Mode 4) will be the standard operating mode for

Suvarnabhumi International Airport. There may be semi-mixed operations, i.e. one runway is used

exclusively for departures, while the other runway is used for a mixture of approaches and departures; or,

one runway is used exclusively for approaches while the other is used for a mixture of approaches and

departures, there may also be mixed operations, i.e. simultaneous parallel approaches with departures

interspersed on both runways (ICAO DOC 9643). Several types of parallel runway operations, which are

described as operational models may be conducted in segregated parallel approaches and departures.

9.2 The utilization of operational models shall be based on traffic situations at the time with the purpose to

achieve an orderly and expeditious flow of traffic. The criteria shall also meet the most effectiveness of

runway utilization. However, as far as the operational model is selected, the basic concept of operating

aircraft on ground movement area shall not aim at the shortest taxi route to the active runway but the

respective departure direction. In addition, the selected model should support the independent parallel

departure operation with safety and maximum runway capacity.

[Johpa]

Well I say that they should dig a might hole in the middle of the runway and place the mighty HMS Chakri Naruebet into the hole and require all flights to land with the aid of a tail hook. That way the Thai Air Force generals and the Thai Navy Admirals can both share in the profits of an airport built in the middle of a swamp.

[cclub75]

UPDATE... with as the little girl in the movie Poltergeist says, "they're baaaack"

The little girl is screaming even louder now... And she's making progress. From "rumors", then "political officials". Now she impersonates a dedicated investigation committee.

I'm wondering if the journalist of Bangkok Post who was fired (for spreading "rumors") will ever receive some excuses...

Runway cracks widen at Suvarnabhumi

Cracks in the runways at Suvarnabhumi Airport runways have expanded and may affect passenger safety, according to the head of a panel looking into the construction of the multibillion-baht facility.

"The cracks in the runway and taxiways are truly an urgent matter that could become cri-tical, particularly to the safety of passengers, if nothing is solved," said Prapan Koonmee, chairman of the National Legislative Assembly's Suvarnabhumi Airport subcommittee.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/22...es_30024747.php

[bkkandrew]

Well I say that they should dig a might hole in the middle of the runway and place the mighty HMS Chakri Naruebet into the hole and require all flights to land with the aid of a tail hook. That way the Thai Air Force generals and the Thai Navy Admirals can both share in the profits of an airport built in the middle of a swamp.

Don't normally agree with you, but that is sooooo the best post you have written!

[bkkandrew]

UPDATE... with as the little girl in the movie Poltergeist says, "they're baaaack"

The little girl is screaming even louder now... And she's making progress. From "rumors", then "political officials". Now she impersonates a dedicated investigation committee.

I'm wondering if the journalist of Bangkok Post who was fired (for spreading "rumors") will ever receive some excuses...

Runway cracks widen at Suvarnabhumi

Cracks in the runways at Suvarnabhumi Airport runways have expanded and may affect passenger safety, according to the head of a panel looking into the construction of the multibillion-baht facility.

"The cracks in the runway and taxiways are truly an urgent matter that could become cri-tical, particularly to the safety of passengers, if nothing is solved," said Prapan Koonmee, chairman of the National Legislative Assembly's Suvarnabhumi Airport subcommittee.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/22...es_30024747.php

And...

Is it just me, or does it seem that an airport that cannot operate its runways correctly is sort of "missing the main event?"

[sriracha john]

SUVARNABHUMI AIRPORT PROBLEMS WITH RUNWAYS, TAXIWAYS

Sub-standard work likely cause of cracks, wavy surfaces

Praphan Khoonmee, head of the inquiry sub-committee set up by the Suvarnabhumi airport committee of the National Legislative Assembly, and panel members yesterday inspected runways and taxiways where surface cracks are mushrooming. They found many surface cracks at holding areas for both the western and eastern runways. Many parts of the taxiways are uneven and cracked. Most of the flaws are waves in the pavement. Mr Praphan said he heard from staff of Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) that the problem began only two weeks after Suvarnabhumi opened on Sept 28. It had spread to more than 100 spots with the combined area of taxiway damage more than 100,000 square metres. The problem surfacing just two weeks after the opening indicated it probably resulted from poor construction, he said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/22Jan2007_news02.php

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100,000 square frickin' meters... that's a bunch... :D

Still to be determined.... the cause for all this cracking and waving and mushrooming....

Pick One:

a. poor workmanship

b. substandard materials

c. water seepage from the swamp below

d. all of the above

e. none of the above

[robint]

TV.C is often criticised for hosting too much barstool BS

This particular topic is a prime example. Not one poster is even remotely qualified to comment on the structural or design problems of the runway. None of you knows how it was designed and built. So all the dumbo speculations arent worth a monkey's T**s

[PhilHarries]

TV.C is often criticised for hosting too much barstool BS

This particular topic is a prime example. Not one poster is even remotely qualified to comment on the structural or design problems of the runway. None of you knows how it was designed and built. So all the dumbo speculations arent worth a monkey's T**s

I fail to see how intimate knowledge of the design and construction of a facility is necessary in order to recognise that something is fundamentally wrong with one or the other when it starts to suffer degradation this early in it's life. Or am I being too simplistic?

The reason(s) behind the cracking are open to conjecture and I'd be surprised if design were one of them. This is hardly leading edge technology, airports have been around a good few years, and it's not unreasonable to expect the surfaces in question to be designed to last more than a couple of months. That leaves construction and it is a simple job to take a few core samples from the affected areas and have them tested and compare the results with the job spec.

PS what led you to the conclusion that no one on TV is "evenly remotely qualified to comment"? Is there a forum for us to post our resumes?

[midas]

I would like to know if the B747 pilot's have been made aware of these recent

findings and what would be the " fine line " that would make and experienced pilot

determine it's too much a risk to land a huge and heavy plane on a runway

that allegedly has these problems ? Are we fast reaching that stage

or perhaps have we already reached that. If i were a pilot I would at least

like to be kept very up-to-date with this information - I just wondered if this

is happening ?

[sriracha john]

A temporary repair on a taxiway at Suvarnabhumi airport is pointed out yesterday by Praphan Khoonmee (right), head of the sub-committee inquiring into the airport's construction, and fellow inquiry member Thavorn Senniem.

Bangkok Post

-------------------------

No word yet on whether either of these gentlemen are "even remotely qualified to comment on the structural or design problems of the runway."

Judging by the repair work quality, I guess we'll just to decide on our own if this is an airport runway/taxiway or the local back soi.

[jumnien]

I certainly haven't seen any horrific cracks at the new airport. Overall, seemed smooth to me and yes, I am a pilot. Out of thousands of TV posters using the new facility, anyone see anything or feel anything? I'm not saying there are no problems, I'm sure there are, there are bound to me in any project of this scope. However, we must remember that there are obvious political reasons to amplify the problems to justify the right-wing military takeover. I'm sure the contracts have already been signed for the army-owned construction companies to fix the problem. The problem for them is that this kind of work (real and fraudulent) takes time, and this govt knows it has precious little time left.

[midas]

I certainly haven't seen any horrific cracks at the new airport. Overall, seemed smooth to me and yes, I am a pilot. Out of thousands of TV posters using the new facility, anyone see anything or feel anything? I'm not saying there are no problems, I'm sure there are, there are bound to me in any project of this scope. However, we must remember that there are obvious political reasons to amplify the problems to justify the right-wing military takeover. I'm sure the contracts have already been signed for the army-owned construction companies to fix the problem. The problem for them is that this kind of work (real and fraudulent) takes time, and this govt knows it has precious little time left.

mdeland I am also a pilot though only PPL. I am just curious do you think it's likely this sort of information is being fed through

to NOTAMS ? I certainly think it should be - if you're not a commercial pilot yourself maybe you have some friends

who are - as they whiz around the globe -are they being briefed of this worsening situation ?

[Mid]

I certainly haven't seen any horrific cracks at the new airport. Overall, seemed smooth to me and yes, I am a pilot. Out of thousands of TV posters using the new facility, anyone see anything or feel anything? I'm not saying there are no problems, I'm sure there are, there are bound to me in any project of this scope. However, we must remember that there are obvious political reasons to amplify the problems to justify the right-wing military takeover. I'm sure the contracts have already been signed for the army-owned construction companies to fix the problem. The problem for them is that this kind of work (real and fraudulent) takes time, and this govt knows it has precious little time left.

mdeland I am also a pilot though only PPL. I am just curious do you think it's likely this sort of information is being fed through

to NOTAMS ? I certainly think it should be - if you're not a commercial pilot yourself maybe you have some friends

who are - as they whiz around the globe -are they being briefed of this worsening situation ?

guys ,

Parking Bays And A Taxiway Closed For Repairs

which is probally why you don't see them ..................................

[Thai-Spy]

Call it what it is: the Suvarnabhoondoggle

[jumnien]

Hey, it's an airport, it works, planes land and unload passengers and get more and take off. Sure it's got problems, they all do. I had a brief seven year stint in the civil engineering world and I know when the general's road building company looks at a 50,000 baht crack he see's a 5,000,000 baht solution to the problem and an opportunity to justify the coup to boot!

[midas]

Hey, it's an airport, it works, planes land and unload passengers and get more and take off.

I sincerely hope you don't apply that approach to your pre flight safety checks ?

to" hey its got wings and an engine - don't worry it will take off and fly " ???

surely every responsible commercial airline pilot would be right to at least

demand as much information as possible about this situation and perhaps would show more concern

that you seem to suggest ?

[sriracha john]

Hey, it's an airport, it works, planes land and unload passengers and get more and take off. Sure it's got problems, they all do. I had a brief seven year stint in the civil engineering world and I know when the general's road building company looks at a 50,000 baht crack he see's a 5,000,000 baht solution to the problem and an opportunity to justify the coup to boot!

ahhh... so THAT'S why they had the coup... it had nothing to do with Thaksin's five and half years of tryannical despotic rule...

it was because someone was looking to reap some windfall work projects to fix Thaksin's airport runways. That makes everything much clearer now.

Thanks for that.

[sriracha john]

Channel 11 Newsline just reporting that engineering experts from the Asian Institute of Technology

( http://www.ait.ac.th/interimpage/ait_visitor/index.asp )

will be inspecting the runways/taxiways/etc. over the next 7 days to determine the seriousness of the cracks.

[jumnien]

Hey, it's an airport, it works, planes land and unload passengers and get more and take off. Sure it's got problems, they all do. I had a brief seven year stint in the civil engineering world and I know when the general's road building company looks at a 50,000 baht crack he see's a 5,000,000 baht solution to the problem and an opportunity to justify the coup to boot!

ahhh... so THAT'S why they had the coup... it had nothing to do with Thaksin's five and half years of tryannical despotic rule...

it was because someone was looking to reap some windfall work projects to fix Thaksin's airport runways. That makes everything much clearer now.

Thanks for that.

I didn't say that the airport cracks caused the coup. However, even the most right-wing, anti-Thaksin, censorship-loving, military junta apologist would have to admit that the cracks will be "fixed" by friends of the coup at less than bargain prices.

[sriracha john]

Hey, it's an airport, it works, planes land and unload passengers and get more and take off. Sure it's got problems, they all do. I had a brief seven year stint in the civil engineering world and I know when the general's road building company looks at a 50,000 baht crack he see's a 5,000,000 baht solution to the problem and an opportunity to justify the coup to boot!

ahhh... so THAT'S why they had the coup... it had nothing to do with Thaksin's five and half years of tyrannical despotic rule...

it was because someone was looking to reap some windfall work projects to fix Thaksin's airport runways. That makes everything much clearer now.

Thanks for that.

I didn't say that the airport cracks caused the coup. However, even the most right-wing, anti-Thaksin, censorship-loving, military junta apologist would have to admit that the cracks will be "fixed" by friends of the coup at less than bargain prices.

Interesting.

You did manage to get one of those correct.

I do admit to being anti-Thaksin.

As for being right wing, I believe a 30 year voting record for left-wing liberals would conflict with that assessment.

As for censorship-loving, I'd have to disagree with that appraisal as I'm against it, whether it was the censorship present during Thaksin's time or the present.

As for military junta apologist, I'm not sure exactly what you’re trying to specifically address there, but I guess it would be to off-topic for you to elaborate on.

As for who is repairing the cracks in the runway, I'm not aware of who is doing that, but I would appreciate you telling us the company name that has been awarded that contract.

I am sorry if I misconstrued your words from before:

an opportunity to justify the coup

I took that to mean that it had something to do with the coup.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.