World considers a Trump presidency, and many shudder

[lannarebirth]

^Lanna,

Your point is well taken about toxic outcomes. However, I have been involved deeply in large global trade and have seen the shell games that can be played, and are now being played by everyone, including the Chinese.

For example, I've stated several times on this forum how China is not a signatory to the TPP, and anti-trade Trumpers should support the TPP. To be honest, and most people on this forum don't know this, but Vietnam, which IS one of the TPP signatories, is seeing a huge influx of FDI and investment of all sorts by CHINESE companies, as well as American companies in anticipation of the TPP. In other words, Chinese firms, and all smart global traders, are too smart to be locked out of any market if they can help it, even going so far as to relocate to another more favorable country. It's the natural order of Capitalism. This is off-topic, and sorry for that, but Thailand also stands to lose out big time unless they either join the TPP, which they won't, or run off to Vietnam or other place to start a Vietnam company to take advantage of those trade pacts.

So, returning to the topic of world shudders, and part of the reason is this errant idea that Trump supporters believe that somehow isolationism will ever be the answer they are looking for. Capitalists are too fluid. They will find a way. It's a massive, global interconnected sourcing and suppy-chain web now.

There is "no place like home" anymore, and yes Dorothy, you are not in Kansas. Wake up Trumpers.

I'm not a protectionist and my whole adult life was associated with international trade. I know how it works. Because I do, I know that some of the true costs of manufacture, such as global pollution and health degradation and the loss of non renewable resources and ecosystems are not being recompensed in the cost of goods sold. It is being avoided.

I felt pretty confident when the EPA, with all it's deficiencies was minding our business. I have no such confidence now

[lannarebirth]

Who is served? Too late for the Republicans and he's the savior of the Democats. He's the only impetus for a Democrat to even vote in the presidential election.

True for America, but don't forget the huge trade interests involved and the numerous foreign countries that would be negatively impacted if his rhetoric is believed.

Seems to be to be setting up a precarious security situation for him with lots of foreign countries and industries having a keen interest.

What are exports as percent of GDP? 13% ? Something like that. I imagine most of that is grain and weapons. None of that's going away.

US in 2013 exported $147.8 bn of IT and other high tech.

Unless Donald Trump is defeated somewhere along the line here, US is going to be using nuclear weapons in the ME (against Daesh). Trump won't rule it out, which means Trump is never going to get in. Goldwater talked this way in 1964 concerning the Vietnam war, on his way to getting crushed in the general election. Trump learns nothing nor does he care.

It's relevant and material that most US "arms" exports are high tech and high performance items such as Global Hawk Recon Drones to Japan, F-16 fighter jet contracting to Nato ally Turkey (blasted the Russian Su-24 fighter-bomber out of the sky)....in fact, most US "arms" exports are to treaty allies, to include Nato.

South Korea which has the FA-118 Super Hornet jet fighter has in recent months taken to actively and aggressively trying to also get the US Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) anti-ballistic missile system which is humongous bucks and a serious defense weaponry. US had also been ambiguous about it until very recently. Seems Washington doesn't much care any more what the CCP Dictators in Beijing say, like or dislike, to include the whackjobs in Pyongyang.

SecDef Ashton Carter is btw in the process of disinviting CCP from the 23-nation bi-annual Naval exercises off Hawaii. CCP has been saying their missiles and fighters on new islands in the SCS is the same as US military being in Hawaii. Minus one = 22 nations and that's just fine, if not perfect.

Now Trump has gone nuclear. The whole of the long term point of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to never use the weaponry again. Imagine Mussolini with nuclear weapons and, moreover, a hostile Pentagon.

It's been estimated that Trump's gotten something like $2 Billion in free media coverage. How will he attempt to monetize that do you think?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/06arms.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[tonbridgebrit]

True for America, but don't forget the huge trade interests involved and the numerous foreign countries that would be negatively impacted if his rhetoric is believed.

Seems to be to be setting up a precarious security situation for him with lots of foreign countries and industries having a keen interest.

What are exports as percent of GDP? 13% ? Something like that. I imagine most of that is grain and weapons. None of that's going away.

US in 2013 exported $147.8 bn of IT and other high tech.

Unless Donald Trump is defeated somewhere along the line here, US is going to be using nuclear weapons in the ME (against Daesh). Trump won't rule it out, which means Trump is never going to get in. Goldwater talked this way in 1964 concerning the Vietnam war, on his way to getting crushed in the general election. Trump learns nothing nor does he care.

It's relevant and material that most US "arms" exports are high tech and high performance items such as Global Hawk Recon Drones to Japan, F-16 fighter jet contracting to Nato ally Turkey (blasted the Russian Su-24 fighter-bomber out of the sky)....in fact, most US "arms" exports are to treaty allies, to include Nato.

South Korea which has the FA-118 Super Hornet jet fighter has in recent months taken to actively and aggressively trying to also get the US Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) anti-ballistic missile system which is humongous bucks and a serious defense weaponry. US had also been ambiguous about it until very recently. Seems Washington doesn't much care any more what the CCP Dictators in Beijing say, like or dislike, to include the whackjobs in Pyongyang.

SecDef Ashton Carter is btw in the process of disinviting CCP from the 23-nation bi-annual Naval exercises off Hawaii. CCP has been saying their missiles and fighters on new islands in the SCS is the same as US military being in Hawaii. Minus one = 22 nations and that's just fine, if not perfect.

Now Trump has gone nuclear. The whole of the long term point of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to never use the weaponry again. Imagine Mussolini with nuclear weapons and, moreover, a hostile Pentagon.

Publicus, you're doing it again, you're demonizing Beijing, you're pumping out your anti-China propaganda.

Publicus, you are AGAINST Trump, but you still go-ahead and whip up anti-China sentiment, and Americans who have anti-China sentiments are more likely to vote for Trump rather than against him.

You have also decided to demonise/demonize North Korea, again, you're whipping up xenophobia amongst Americans. You've also done things like put Putin's Russia, China, North Korea and Iran into a single group, as the 'bad guys'. This surely, is causing Americans to increase their anti-foreigner and xenophobic sentiments. You're being a cheer-leader for silly American nationalism.

Yes, people like YOU go on and on about Trump being a lunatic. But you banging the drum about the American flag, you're actualy spurring on the Trump supporters. Stop inciting the Trump supporters.

[Publicus]

True for America, but don't forget the huge trade interests involved and the numerous foreign countries that would be negatively impacted if his rhetoric is believed.

Seems to be to be setting up a precarious security situation for him with lots of foreign countries and industries having a keen interest.

What are exports as percent of GDP? 13% ? Something like that. I imagine most of that is grain and weapons. None of that's going away.

US in 2013 exported $147.8 bn of IT and other high tech.

Unless Donald Trump is defeated somewhere along the line here, US is going to be using nuclear weapons in the ME (against Daesh). Trump won't rule it out, which means Trump is never going to get in. Goldwater talked this way in 1964 concerning the Vietnam war, on his way to getting crushed in the general election. Trump learns nothing nor does he care.

It's relevant and material that most US "arms" exports are high tech and high performance items such as Global Hawk Recon Drones to Japan, F-16 fighter jet contracting to Nato ally Turkey (blasted the Russian Su-24 fighter-bomber out of the sky)....in fact, most US "arms" exports are to treaty allies, to include Nato.

South Korea which has the FA-118 Super Hornet jet fighter has in recent months taken to actively and aggressively trying to also get the US Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) anti-ballistic missile system which is humongous bucks and a serious defense weaponry. US had also been ambiguous about it until very recently. Seems Washington doesn't much care any more what the CCP Dictators in Beijing say, like or dislike, to include the whackjobs in Pyongyang.

SecDef Ashton Carter is btw in the process of disinviting CCP from the 23-nation bi-annual Naval exercises off Hawaii. CCP has been saying their missiles and fighters on new islands in the SCS is the same as US military being in Hawaii. Minus one = 22 nations and that's just fine, if not perfect.

Now Trump has gone nuclear. The whole of the long term point of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to never use the weaponry again. Imagine Mussolini with nuclear weapons and, moreover, a hostile Pentagon.

Publicus, you're doing it again, you're demonizing Beijing, you're pumping out your anti-China propaganda.

Publicus, you are AGAINST Trump, but you still go-ahead and whip up anti-China sentiment, and Americans who have anti-China sentiments are more likely to vote for Trump rather than against him.

You have also decided to demonise/demonize North Korea, again, you're whipping up xenophobia amongst Americans. You've also done things like put Putin's Russia, China, North Korea and Iran into a single group, as the 'bad guys'. This surely, is causing Americans to increase their anti-foreigner and xenophobic sentiments. You're being a cheer-leader for silly American nationalism.

Yes, people like YOU go on and on about Trump being a lunatic. But you banging the drum about the American flag, you're actualy spurring on the Trump supporters. Stop inciting the Trump supporters.

Well that tells me off

As you are wont to do.

I dunno anyway what the strident scolding and presumptuous personal lecture has to do with the fact Trump has gone nuclear while the world had already been shuddering and shuttering at the thought of Trump in the White House.

The Donald is doing all the inciting btw.

One generally does not feed the trolls but you did call attention to yourself while addressing moi rather than the topic or addressing the lunatic Trump's lunatic supporters, to say nothing more of the post.

(How'd the American flag get into this anyway. Sen. Lindsey Graham is the guy saluting every flag that gets run up the same pole outside Republican National Committee head offices in Washington.)

Edited March 25, 2016 by Publicus

[Gary A]

The democrats have a huge built in voter block. The professional welfare slugs, the surplus bloated government people and the dead and the illegal voters. They will certainly need all of them this election. The only candidates the democrats can come up with are a criminal Teflon professional liar and an over the hill socialist/communist. If the Teflon liar Hillary goes to jail and Trump runs against the socialist/communist, it will be a very easy election for Trump to win big.

[Chicog]

The democrats have a huge built in voter block. The professional welfare slugs, the surplus bloated government people and the dead and the illegal voters. They will certainly need all of them this election. The only candidates the democrats can come up with are a criminal Teflon professional liar and an over the hill socialist/communist. If the Teflon liar Hillary goes to jail and Trump runs against the socialist/communist, it will be a very easy election for Trump to win big.

Actually that's rubbish.

Sanders would destroy Trump even more than Clinton is going to.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

[Gary A]

The polls and the experts said that Jeb Bush would be the republican candidate. I wouldn't put too much faith in polls.

[uptheos]

I don't know anyone who is shuddering.

Maybe those who know they're going to go will be shuddering.....a lot I hope.

[Chicog]

The polls and the experts said that Jeb Bush would be the republican candidate. I wouldn't put too much faith in polls.

I put even less faith in your instinct.

[Publicus]

It's just starting now, the cry of the campaign and supporters that are waaay far behind to say the only poll that counts is on election day, November 8th. The fact that it's true does not change that Trump is already going down in flames with the American general electorate.

The general electorate is not the Republican party. They are two radically different beasts....

Since January 1 of this year, Trump has led in only five of 39 polls, including only two of the 16 that used live callers.

Since voting began, Trump has beaten Clinton in precisely one of the 29 polls that have been conducted.

For a while, the race between the two appeared to be narrowing. Now, Clinton is pulling away again. In polls conducted over the last week, Clinton leads by an average of 11 points

http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-trump-is-not-beating-hillary-clinton-in-polls--but-you-cant-tell-him-20160325-gnr23l.html#ixzz43tIkLlyW

We know which side is losing each election simply by who is howling against all the polling. And when they begin doing it. Like now.

Eleven points is btw FDR margins of victory territory.

[Gary A]

Quite frankly, I can't imagine people voting in a socialist. Maybe he should have been calling himself a progressive when he decided to run. The country can't afford the socialist it has now. Twenty trillion dollars in debt should scare anyone who has a lick of sense.

[Jingthing]

Quite frankly, I can't imagine people voting in a socialist. Maybe he should have been calling himself a progressive when he decided to run. The country can't afford the socialist it has now. Twenty trillion dollars in debt should scare anyone who has a lick of sense.

Obama a socialist? We should be so lucky.

[Fookhaht]

Only enemies of the USA are shuddering.

[keemapoot]

Only enemies of the USA are shuddering.

You mean like the UK, Mexico, (And the 12 important US allies who signed on to TPP like Australia, Singapore, Japan, Chile, Peru, Vietnam, etc.), as well as all our Islamic trading partners like Indonesia, Malaysia, and our largest and most important trading partner, China?

Yeah. Enemies like that.

Edited March 25, 2016 by keemapoot

[Fookhaht]

None of those countries are considered enemies of the USA. Only China would be considered a possible belligerent in your list due to its saber-rattling in the South China Sea and abuses of trade pacts.

No, I'm speaking of enemies like ISIS, and nations which abuse trade balances by ultra-high tariffs on American products while enjoying low tariffs on their own exports to the USA.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Fookhaht

[KarenBravo]

For the Trump haters, you obviously know nothing about how the government works. You must think the president is a dictator who can make every rule as he goes along. The president can make no meaningful changes without the consent of congress. Unfortunately the congress is full of morons who make it tough for a president to do anything. Sometimes that is good and sometimes that is bad.

Look at the buffoon we now have. Could anyone else be worse?

Yes.....G.W. Bush.

[KarenBravo]

Only enemies of the USA are shuddering.

......and all of the USAs close allies.

[Fookhaht]

Only enemies of the USA are shuddering.

......and all of the USAs close allies.

Only the ultra-left wing radicals in those countries, which get played up by the media, of course in order to make it look like the entire country is about to stage an anti-Trump jihad.

Next...

Edited March 25, 2016 by Fookhaht

[Chicog]

nations which abuse trade balances by ultra-high tariffs on American products while enjoying low tariffs on their own exports to the USA.

Ultimately, imposing a massive tariff on Chinese goods would not necessarily improve the US economy. Among the consequences economists would expect:

http://qz.com/595618/trump-is-caught-lying-about-his-china-tariff-proposal-and-it-would-hurt-his-supporters-the-most/

Edited March 25, 2016 by seedy
fair use

[KarenBravo]

Only enemies of the USA are shuddering.

......and all of the USAs close allies.

Only the ultra-left wing radicals in those countries, which get played up by the media, of course in order to make it look like the entire country is about to stage an anti-Trump jihad.

Next...

No....we are talking about sitting governments. Can't think of a single government that would want to deal with the idiot Trump.

All moot anyway as he has zero chance of becoming POTUS. And if by some miracle he does get in, the US and it's citizens will be come laughing stock of the world and will reinforce the (incorrect) stereotype that "all Yanks are dumb".

Oh, forgot.

Next!

Edited March 25, 2016 by KarenBravo

[Fookhaht]

nations which abuse trade balances by ultra-high tariffs on American products while enjoying low tariffs on their own exports to the USA.

Which ones are those then?

I'll allow you to do your OWN homework, sir. The data is everywhere and easily accessed. But perhaps you could start with your beloved China.

[Fookhaht]

Only enemies of the USA are shuddering.

......and all of the USAs close allies.

Only the ultra-left wing radicals in those countries, which get played up by the media, of course in order to make it look like the entire country is about to stage an anti-Trump jihad.

Next...

No....we are talking about sitting governments. Can't think of a single government that would want to deal with the idiot Trump.

All moot anyway as he has zero chance of becoming POTUS. And if by some miracle he does get in, the US and it's citizens will be come laughing stock of the world and will reinforce the (incorrect) stereotype that "all Yanks are dumb".

Oh, forgot.

Next!

. Funny how I remember almost these exact words just prior to the Reagan election. Don't hold your breath.

Oops, almost forgot too:

Next...

Edited March 25, 2016 by Fookhaht

[Chicog]

nations which abuse trade balances by ultra-high tariffs on American products while enjoying low tariffs on their own exports to the USA.

Which ones are those then?

I'll allow you to do your OWN homework, sir. The data is everywhere and easily accessed. But perhaps you could start with your beloved China.

Not quite sure why you think it's "my beloved China" but see above (I added it to post 593).

Edited March 25, 2016 by Chicog

[thaihome]

Quite frankly, I can't imagine people voting in a socialist. Maybe he should have been calling himself a progressive when he decided to run. The country can't afford the socialist it has now. Twenty trillion dollars in debt should scare anyone who has a lick of sense.

I don't think Bernie is going to make as the nominee. His campaign is very similar to McCarthy's run in 1968 replacing the peace theme with Bernie's economic message. You may recall the Democrats ended up with Humphrey in the end, but the party platform was heavily influenced by McCarthy supporters. I think the same thing will happen this year with Hillary. The Democratic platform is going to be heavily liberal in its economic and social stance. I can't wait to see what the republican platform is going to look like when Donald gets nominated, to say nothing of who is going to agree to be VP.

The entertainment value this year is higher then it's ever been in my lifetime, going back to 1960.

TH

[Fookhaht]

nations which abuse trade balances by ultra-high tariffs on American products while enjoying low tariffs on their own exports to the USA.

Which ones are those then?

I'll allow you to do your OWN homework, sir. The data is everywhere and easily accessed. But perhaps you could start with your beloved China.

Not quite sure why you think it's "my beloved China" but see above (I added it to post 593).

Wow. A one-product analysis.

Underwhelming.

[KarenBravo]

......and all of the USAs close allies.

Only the ultra-left wing radicals in those countries, which get played up by the media, of course in order to make it look like the entire country is about to stage an anti-Trump jihad.

Next...

No....we are talking about sitting governments. Can't think of a single government that would want to deal with the idiot Trump.

All moot anyway as he has zero chance of becoming POTUS. And if by some miracle he does get in, the US and it's citizens will be come laughing stock of the world and will reinforce the (incorrect) stereotype that "all Yanks are dumb".

Oh, forgot.

Next!

. Funny how I remember almost these exact words just prior to the Reagan election. Don't hold your breath.

Oops, almost forgot too:

Next...

That's the best you can do?

Cop out answers to both me and chicog.

Bit like your hero. Lots of words, but no sense.

[JHolmesJr]

Sanders would destroy Trump even more than Clinton is going to.

Huge claim….but after seeing Sanders getting publicly owned by two loud, fat, black chicks, I think not…he looks weak.

LIke a senile grandpa whom everyone would just pay lip service to, and politely ignore.

[Fookhaht]

......and all of the USAs close allies.

Only the ultra-left wing radicals in those countries, which get played up by the media, of course in order to make it look like the entire country is about to stage an anti-Trump jihad.

Next...

No....we are talking about sitting governments. Can't think of a single government that would want to deal with the idiot Trump.
All moot anyway as he has zero chance of becoming POTUS. And if by some miracle he does get in, the US and it's citizens will be come laughing stock of the world and will reinforce the (incorrect) stereotype that "all Yanks are dumb".

Oh, forgot.
Next!

. Funny how I remember almost these exact words just prior to the Reagan election. Don't hold your breath.

Oops, almost forgot too:
Next...

That's the best you can do?
Cop out answers to both me and chicog.

Bit like your hero. Lots of words, but no sense.

Sorry that I didn't fall into your trap of providing fodder. Nice try, though.

My hero? I wouldn't vote for the guy. Too ethically bankrupt for me. However, another good example of your "prescient" conclusions. Edited March 25, 2016 by Scott

[KarenBravo]

Ooooooo......you're far too clever for me

[Fookhaht]

Ooooooo......you're far too clever for me

That's the best you can do?