Thailand, US sign agreement to share tax information

[webfact]

Thailand, US sign agreement to share tax information
By Coconuts Bangkok


The US ambassador Glyn T. Davies and Thai Minister of Finance Apisak Tantivorawong sign the agreement. Photo: Glyn T. Davies Twitter

BANGKOK: -- Thailand and the United States signed an historic tax agreement today to promote tax transparency between the two nations.

The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), enacted in 2010, aims to combat offshore tax evasion and improve transparency on accounts held by US taxpayers in foreign countries.

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2016/03/04/thailand-us-sign-agreement-share-tax-information


-- Coconuts Bangkok 2016-03-04

[taony]

Because Thailand is such a great place for us Americans to come and invest our money.

[siliconvalley]

Wow...

I'm not sure how I feel about this agreement.

1. Fact 1: A man works 30 years. Pays his taxes. Moves his money from the US to Thailand to avoid having to pay double tax. Example. His income tax from his salary is taxed. What little money he saves each month grows. Now the U.S. wants to tax his savings????

This is double taxation. His savings should not be taxed.

2. Now Thailand signs this agreement..Mainly to sacrifice all the small fish expats. Those who are happy. With their wife and children. Who is most likily collecting Social Security. So as to increase U.S. imports of pineapple juice.

3. If I was ultra rich, Thailand isn't the place to deposit ill gain money.

The U.S. is after the low middle class..Those escaping the U.S. corruption machine that is designed to tax the dead.....

What do we do now?

[taony]

Wow...

I'm not sure how I feel about this agreement.

1. Fact 1: A man works 30 years. Pays his taxes. Moves his money from the US to Thailand to avoid having to pay double tax. Example. His income tax from his salary is taxed. What little money he saves each month grows. Now the U.S. wants to tax his savings????

This is double taxation. His savings should not be taxed.

2. Now Thailand signs this agreement..Mainly to sacrifice all the small fish expats. Those who are happy. With their wife and children. Who is most likily collecting Social Security. So as to increase U.S. imports of pineapple juice.

3. If I was ultra rich, Thailand isn't the place to deposit ill gain money.

The U.S. is after the low middle class..Those escaping the U.S. corruption machine that is designed to tax the dead.....

What do we do now?

The US doesn't tax investments. No double taxation. They would just tax the income on any investments. Any tax you pay to Thai goes towards a credit against US taxes. What they want is info on your bank accounts in other countries. If you have $5,000,000 invested here, but claim no interest/gains on it, it looks fishy and they will ask questions.

In the past you could just own accounts here and they wouldn't know. What this is doing is trying to get all Thai banks to cooperate and let the IRS know which american citizens own accounts here. Its been around for a few years already, but probably most thai banks are too lazy/incompetent to do it correctly (I know mine is). so the americans are appealing to a higher authority to try to get things done. We all know that's how it works here.

[jaywalker]

FATCA is probably the most destructive legislation to be enacted by the US in the last 100 years.

It is utterly arrogant and self-destructive for the USA.

Genius: FATCA has brought in just $13.5 billion in revenue on a cost of $1 trillion

[NeverSure]

^^^ You aren't taxed on savings. You are taxed on the income you received when you saved it. Just once. You are taxed on any interest on the savings. If you have a fairly small income, you won't owe any taxes at all. If you have a middle income the rate is still fairly low.

^^^ Oops. Was typing when you posted.

Edited March 4, 2016 by NeverSure

[Usernames]

It's easy enough to register your Thai bank accounts with the IRS and you can do it online. It only takes a few minutes. You're going to need to do it, so go ahead and get it over with.

[doremifasol]

I am searching for a new destination ............

[andre47]

I'm so happy that I'm not an American.

But I fear that the EU will copy this sytem soon. They all want full controll over us and let us work for them for peanuts to finance their pensions and their mismanagement.

[yellowboat]

Because Thailand is such a great place for us Americans to come and invest our money.

They are looking for Thais with US passports and green cards mostly. If they sell their family estate, uncle sam wants his cut.

[craigt3365]

I'm so happy that I'm not an American.

But I fear that the EU will copy this sytem soon. They all want full controll over us and let us work for them for peanuts to finance their pensions and their mismanagement.

They already have. My EU friends are selling their condo here as their country wants to tax them on it. The US tax rate is pretty good. Compared to many countries in the EU. If you have $5MM to invest, you have good investment advisers who help you reduce your tax liability. If not, the tax rates are really low. Check it out here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

[sgtsabai]

If you do not have more than 10,000 USD in Thai accounts you do not have to register it with the IRS. Ah, but it is not just cash, it is assets. The problem that can, has in other countries, arise is when you are married and the IRS counts what has been acquired after you married a Thai lady as common property and it is over 10,000 USD in value. Then you are in violation of the law if you didn't report. This "law" has never and will never catch those that stash millions offshore. It will only catch the unsuspecting and lower/middle income expats. Nope, don't have, never have had, and never will have a reportable amount of USD here. I don't get taxed, yet, on my pensions but I'm less than 2,000 USD below the threshold. Of course with no COLA's these days nothing to worry about, right? While the plutocrats and corporations get away with paying nothing to little in taxes, thank you Republicans, the middle/working class gets saddled with paying for wars, US terrorism, overthrowing governments, and what it left of decency in social programs to benefit those struggling.

[stickylies]

I am searching for a new destination ............

Russia ?

[montereyjp]

FATCA or is it Fatcat.. Isnt this related to FBAR, the requirement for all US citizens to report any international money accounts that exceed 10K usd.. right? And from some of the posts by TV members not all banks wanted to deal with FBAR.. I thought I saw posts claiming some Thai banks were refusing to open new accounts for US citizens... Just last year I had to go to a few branches of Bangkok Bank before I found one that actually new how to deal with the extra paperwork required to open an account for a US citizens.. They had a hard time explaining the W9 requirement when it came to the employer tax identification number. As most of us US expats are retired or no longer work for a US company what ID would you use?? I used one from an old w2 I found which was accepted without even a glance.. My bet is that it is not required but the Thai banks do not know this.. And now that this agreement is in place would it be safe to assume that new accounts for US citizens will be accepted by all Thai banks???

btw, for all my fellow US Ex-patriots.. If you use the online version of TurboTax it will ask about your foreign accounts and if needed it will prepare and file the forms required for FBAR also..

Edited March 4, 2016 by montereyjp

[Benmart]

For those that circumvent the law, i.e., criminals, this is a good tool for catching them. For those that have nothing to hide and comply, the only problem may be one that they invent themselves.

I prefer to read the law and know the facts, before I start inventing doomsday scenarios.

[Tywais]

They had a hard time explaining the W9 requirement when it came to the employer tax identification number. As most of us US expats are retired or no longer work for a US company what ID would you use??

If not a business your SSN is your tax identification number.

[thaisail]

It's easy enough to register your Thai bank accounts with the IRS and you can do it online. It only takes a few minutes. You're going to need to do it, so go ahead and get it over with.

According to my accountant, you only have to declare a bank account with more than $10000 in it at any time within the tax year. So if you have to keep 400000 baht in a bank account to immigration for your retirement visa, you must report that and the interest earned as well to the IRS.

[soalbundy]

I'm so happy that I'm not an American.

But I fear that the EU will copy this sytem soon. They all want full controll over us and let us work for them for peanuts to finance their pensions and their mismanagement.

They already have. My EU friends are selling their condo here as their country wants to tax them on it. The US tax rate is pretty good. Compared to many countries in the EU. If you have $5MM to invest, you have good investment advisers who help you reduce your tax liability. If not, the tax rates are really low. Check it out here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

how can you be taxed on a condo ? how does the EU get involved here in Thailand?

[craigt3365]

I'm so happy that I'm not an American.

But I fear that the EU will copy this sytem soon. They all want full controll over us and let us work for them for peanuts to finance their pensions and their mismanagement.

They already have. My EU friends are selling their condo here as their country wants to tax them on it. The US tax rate is pretty good. Compared to many countries in the EU. If you have $5MM to invest, you have good investment advisers who help you reduce your tax liability. If not, the tax rates are really low. Check it out here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

how can you be taxed on a condo ? how does the EU get involved here in Thailand?

They tax properties no matter where they are. Same as the US taxing your investments no matter where they are.

[Srikcir]

FATCA is probably the most destructive legislation to be enacted by the US in the last 100 years.

It is utterly arrogant and self-destructive for the USA.

Genius: FATCA has brought in just $13.5 billion in revenue on a cost of $1 trillion

"For financial institutions abroad, the cost of implementing FATCA has been estimated by various foreign governments, banks, chambers of commerce, and financial media, at anywhere between $200 billion and more than $1 trillion."

Aside from this statement by Simon Black lacking any references for such estimates¹, such cost is being born largely by foreign chartered banks at little cost to the American government. Thus, the $13.5 billion in additional revenue is mostly a windfalll profit for the US Treasury.

If this is destruction, keep it coming!

¹I'd expect banks who relunctantly comply might exagerate their costs to solicit sympathy from the public.

[wabothai]

^^^ You aren't taxed on savings. You are taxed on the income you received when you saved it. Just once. You are taxed on any interest on the savings. If you have a fairly small income, you won't owe any taxes at all. If you have a middle income the rate is still fairly low.

^^^ Oops. Was typing when you posted.

I pay 30% taxes on a ss check of $200, called an alien tax.

[stickylies]

I have no money nor properties in Thailand except for rice cooker, mtb and a water boiler. I feel light and free ?

[Rayk]

There is no written law that states that Americans have to pay personal income tax. There are former IRS officials that have went on record stating they themselves could not find any written law and even the former head of the IRS dodged the question and simply stated that Americans understand it was their duty to pay personal income tax. There is a difference between a persons duty and a country's law.

People think that their taxes go to pay for schools, false, paid for with property taxes. People think their income taxes pay for roads, false, paid for by the fuel tax. And the list goes on and on and on. The personal income tax is the biggest scam of all time.

Here is a list of taxes Americans pay.

#1 Air Transportation Taxes (just look at how much you were charged the last time you flew)

#2 Biodiesel Fuel Taxes

#3 Building Permit Taxes#4 Business Registration Fees#5 Capital Gains Taxes#6 Cigarette Taxes#7 Court Fines (indirect taxes)#8 Disposal Fees#9 Dog License Taxes#10 Drivers License Fees (another form of taxation)#11 Employer Health Insurance Mandate Tax#12 Employer Medicare Taxes#13 Employer Social Security Taxes#14 Environmental Fees#15 Estate Taxes#16 Excise Taxes On Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans#17 Federal Corporate Taxes#18 Federal Income Taxes#19 Federal Unemployment Taxes#20 Fishing License Taxes#21 Flush Taxes (yes, this actually exists in some areas)#22 Food And Beverage License Fees#23 Franchise Business Taxes#24 Garbage Taxes#25 Gasoline Taxes#26 Gift Taxes#27 Gun Ownership Permits#28 Hazardous Material Disposal Fees#29 Highway Access Fees#30 Hotel Taxes (these are becoming quite large in some areas)#31 Hunting License Taxes#32 Import Taxes#33 Individual Health Insurance Mandate Taxes#34 Inheritance Taxes#35 Insect Control Hazardous Materials Licenses#36 Inspection Fees#37 Insurance Premium Taxes#38 Interstate User Diesel Fuel Taxes#39 Inventory Taxes#40 IRA Early Withdrawal Taxes#41 IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)#42 IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)#43 Library Taxes#44 License Plate Fees#45 Liquor Taxes#46 Local Corporate Taxes#47 Local Income Taxes#48 Local School Taxes#49 Local Unemployment Taxes#50 Luxury Taxes#51 Marriage License Taxes#52 Medicare Taxes#53 Medicare Tax Surcharge On High Earning Americans Under Obamacare#54 Obamacare Individual Mandate Excise Tax (if you don’t buy “qualifying” health insurance under Obamacare you will have to pay an additional tax)#55 Obamacare Surtax On Investment Income (a new 3.8% surtax on investment income)#56 Parking Meters#57 Passport Fees#58 Professional Licenses And Fees (another form of taxation)#59 Property Taxes#60 Real Estate Taxes#61 Recreational Vehicle Taxes#62 Registration Fees For New Businesses#63 Toll Booth Taxes#64 Sales Taxes#65 Self-Employment Taxes#66 Sewer & Water Taxes#67 School Taxes#68 Septic Permit Taxes#69 Service Charge Taxes#70 Social Security Taxes#71 Special Assessments For Road Repairs Or Construction#72 Sports Stadium Taxes#73 State Corporate Taxes#74 State Income Taxes#75 State Park Entrance Fees#76 State Unemployment Taxes (SUTA)#77 Tanning Taxes (a new Obamacare tax on tanning services)#78 Telephone 911 Service Taxes#79 Telephone Federal Excise Taxes#80 Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Taxes#81 Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Taxes#82 Telephone State And Local Taxes#83 Telephone Universal Access Taxes#84 The Alternative Minimum Tax#85 Tire Recycling Fees#86 Tire Taxes#87 Tolls (another form of taxation)#88 Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)#89 Use Taxes (Out of state purchases, etc.)#90 Utility Taxes#91 Vehicle Registration Taxes#92 Waste Management Taxes#93 Water Rights Fees#94 Watercraft Registration & Licensing Fees#95 Well Permit Fees#96 Workers Compensation Taxes#97 Zoning Permit Fees

I guess they need to pay for the wars somehow.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Rayk

[UNTOUCHABLE1]

so if your married and you have to deposit the 400,000 in a thai bank 2 to 3 months before hand will that create a problem with the IRS?

[Pimay1]

^^^ You aren't taxed on savings. You are taxed on the income you received when you saved it. Just once. You are taxed on any interest on the savings. If you have a fairly small income, you won't owe any taxes at all. If you have a middle income the rate is still fairly low.

^^^ Oops. Was typing when you posted.

I pay 30% taxes on a ss check of $200, called an alien tax.

Then you must have other income, not just $200 monthly ss check.

[GAZZPA]

Wow...

I'm not sure how I feel about this agreement.

1. Fact 1: A man works 30 years. Pays his taxes. Moves his money from the US to Thailand to avoid having to pay double tax. Example. His income tax from his salary is taxed. What little money he saves each month grows. Now the U.S. wants to tax his savings????

This is double taxation. His savings should not be taxed.

2. Now Thailand signs this agreement..Mainly to sacrifice all the small fish expats. Those who are happy. With their wife and children. Who is most likily collecting Social Security. So as to increase U.S. imports of pineapple juice.

3. If I was ultra rich, Thailand isn't the place to deposit ill gain money.

The U.S. is after the low middle class..Those escaping the U.S. corruption machine that is designed to tax the dead.....

What do we do now?

Sorry fella, I sympathize but tax law is tax law. You can bleat, moan, shout, scream and do whatever you want but it's there, it isn't going away. So if you have been avoiding the taxation system then the net is closing in I'm afraid. It's the same for everyone, so you can't really claim it's not fair, right?

[pookiki]

The main purpose of the law is to combat money laundering. If you have more than US$10,000 in your Thai bank account(s), you have a duty to report them.

[montereyjp]

They had a hard time explaining the W9 requirement when it came to the employer tax identification number. As most of us US expats are retired or no longer work for a US company what ID would you use??

If not a business your SSN is your tax identification number.

Yes I understand that but in part 1 there are two boxes one labeled Social Security number and another one titled employer tax identification number... So as you stated you use only one number but the bank manager wanted both boxes filled in as it was in the sample form they kept in a binder.. He was not going to listen to any logic coming from a foreigner..lol.. So I filled in both as I stated in my original post.. no harm..no foul.. I am pretty sure the forms are filed locally in case of an audit I suppose so not a problem until they actually do an audit... TIT

[jjczap]

It's easy enough to register your Thai bank accounts with the IRS and you can do it online. It only takes a few minutes. You're going to need to do it, so go ahead and get it over with.

If your talking about FBAR requirements yes it can only be done online but it is with the Treasury Dept not the IRS

[chilli42]

This is why I renounced US citizenship 12 years ago. Paying tax on global income when you don't even receive the benefits of living in the country ... not for me thanks. All the while US Corporations sheltering their earnings overseas.