Is loving your country and wanting it to remain the same a bad thing?

[Inspire]

Is loving your country and wanting it to remain the same a bad thing?



Nationalistic?

I was sat in bar in Bangkok earlier in the week eavesdropping in a conversation that a group of regulars were having.

These are reasonably intelligent guys from a variety of different countries, some Brits, Americans and a Canadian and the conversation inevitably, as seems to be the case at the moment, got round to the Donald Trump presidential race in the US. Their views were pretty polarised but generally it was a debate rather than an argument.

The thing that struck me about their debate was the guy from the States was very pro Trump and agreed with “closing the borders, sending foreigners back” and so on – you get the picture. This is guy that I have known of for several years and fully aware, as he told me, that he has been here for over 10. What I found amusing about his views on Trump was that he is the first person to complain about Thais not seeing things from our point of view, “Thais could learn so much from us” and the regular moan “of Thais don’t want us here”. It was the last comment that raised the smile, isn’t this exactly what he is advocating they do in the US?

The argument about whether Thais are nationalistic or racist is a long standing one but does draw some similarities with the Donald Trump scenario. Is loving your country and wanting it to remain the same a bad thing? Personally I feel that there should be some sort of balance. I am proud of my country and I think it is the little, traditional things that make it so special but I also see the value in bringing in other nationalities and the benefits that this can bring.

Read more: http://www.inspirepattaya.com/lifestyle/nationalistic/

-- Inspire Pattaya 2016-03-12

[elgordo38]

Nothing stays the same over time look in the mirror.

[Asheron]

So now illegal mexicans in USA is the same as legal long time "tourists" in Thailand? Ok... gotcha!

[canathai8]

Nothing stays the same over time look in the mirror.

We could delude ourselves into thinking otherwise

It's common

And 100% curable

With time

[metisdead]

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[CharlieH]

Change is inevitable, but the more you add to something, the more the original becomes 'diluted" and eventually can become something totally different.

[teacherpaul]

For certain EU countries, the answer to this question would be no, it isn't a bad thing. In the case of Thailand, where change is needed, the answer would be yes - in my opinion.

[ChanJay]

Loving your country is a good thing............ part of loving life.
Wanting your country to remain the same is a bad thing, it goes against life. Life means change, trying to fight it is laughable. I'd prefer to be a part of a dynamic, every changing society. And contribute in my own small way.

[Ianatlarge]

At the risk of sounding cliched, nothing is the same as we think it was or is, and things always change. Would you really like your own country the way it was a half century ago? Things change because of people complaining, and then doing something about it. As for Mexicans and westerners in Thailand, both are necessary for their respective societies. Trump made his money from cheap Mexican labour (and Chinese, etc). Thailand would collapse a day after all western expats pulled out (umm - experience is a harsh teacher).

[houlicha]

So how much in income and assets in the bank does a falang need to prove in order to retire in Thailand? And how much do you suppose the average Mexican fence climber has in his pockets?

[recycler]

Countries are lines on a map in most cases drawn to exploit and control people.

[user82374298374]

Countries are lines on a map in most cases drawn to exploit and control people.

Found the SJW!

[jinners]

Simplistic question, too many variables. I think the Thai analogy is a bad one. My personal opinion, for what it's worth is that variety makes us richer and more tolerant. Unfortunately self serving out of touch politicians take advantage, ram down the natives throats 'their' idea of what integration means and look the other way when it all goes pear shaped. Been happening for years with the muslims in the UK. The majority of which are law abiding, a vocal minority however feel above the law, work to their own perverse principles, normally sculpted from their belief in a perverse religion, and it's not till things escalate that the silent majority take notice. Merkel is an idiot and deserves to go on trial for her absurd welcoming of all. Cameron is duplicitous in his arguments for the UK to remain in Europe. Hopefully the masses will see through this and they'll both be looking for work very soon.

[smotherb]

So now illegal mexicans in USA is the same as legal long time "tourists" in Thailand? Ok... gotcha!

The legal ones in either country are no the problem, but the illegal ones are pretty much the same. They stay and try to work illegally, they do not abide by the immigration laws, they get involved in many illegal activities, they do not try to learn our language, they do not share the same culture, they make far too many babies and don't take care of them, their very presence is a blight on the neighborhood--yeah, pretty much the same thing.

Edited March 13, 2016 by smotherb

[bluebluewater]

I think it's just amazin" that someone has the ability to be " eavesdropping in a conversation that a group of regulars were having " and then be able to quote back every word verbatim.

[NoshowJones]

Loving your country is a good thing............ part of loving life.

Wanting your country to remain the same is a bad thing, it goes against life. Life means change, trying to fight it is laughable. I'd prefer to be a part of a dynamic, every changing society. And contribute in my own small way.

I certainly do not want the UK to remain the same, I have to think of the future for my family and friends still there.

And I am not just talking about the Immigration situation.

[NoshowJones]

Countries are lines on a map in most cases drawn to exploit and control people.

Yes, and it is up to the people in these countries to do what they can to stop it.

[1FinickyOne]

“Thais could learn so much from us” and the regular moan “of Thais don’t want us here”.

You make a very interesting correlation here. I feel I can learn things from the Thai culture and the Thai way of life. I like that they are smiling and non-confrontational and generally seem much happier than the people back home. When I see poor people who get more enjoyment from life than middle and upper middle back home, I think there is something to be learned.

Maybe with that attitude, [respect] - - I never seem to experience a feeling that Thai do not want me here.

I am sure if I walked around instructing Thai in how to live properly by my standards or Western standards, or call them stupid as many do on this forum, sure, there would be natural resentment on their part...

As to things not changing - just not the way of the world... and the larger the population, the faster things seem to change.

[off road pat]

Simplistic question, too many variables. I think the Thai analogy is a bad one. My personal opinion, for what it's worth is that variety makes us richer and more tolerant. Unfortunately self serving out of touch politicians take advantage, ram down the natives throats 'their' idea of what integration means and look the other way when it all goes pear shaped. Been happening for years with the muslims in the UK. The majority of which are law abiding, a vocal minority however feel above the law, work to their own perverse principles, normally sculpted from their belief in a perverse religion, and it's not till things escalate that the silent majority take notice. Merkel is an idiot and deserves to go on trial for her absurd welcoming of all. Cameron is duplicitous in his arguments for the UK to remain in Europe. Hopefully the masses will see through this and they'll both be looking for work very soon.

Great intelligent view and reply, the masses never see through it. look at Nazism, some Germans were still fighting for the Reich the last days and hours of the war in Berlin. When every sensible person had given up and fled to safer heavens long time ago. The masses always follow a loud speaking person that gives them simple things in the words they understand. Hitler more than Trump could speak to the masses and could talk them into the slaughter house in a way they would be looking forward to it...In that Way Trump is also very dangerous because he likes to play with that power but has no real control of it. hundred's of thousands of people maybe millions believe every word he says. In that way the masses are extremely dangerous if not controlled !!!

Best regards, Off Road Pat.

[wwest5829]

So now illegal mexicans in USA is the same as legal long time "tourists" in Thailand? Ok... gotcha!

How about long term Moslems in the U.S. are like long term tourists in Thailand? Or illegal immigrants (that does include overstays) are the same in all counties?

Edited March 13, 2016 by wwest5829

[off road pat]

I am not specially proud of my country, needer am I ashamed of it. to be born somewhere is a accident of birth, and is completely out of ones control....

So ! been proud of been from such or this country has nothing to do with you're choices and achievements.

On the other hand I am happy to be born in A wealthy European country with a excellent social security and health care system.

We have good education, our top university is rated amongst the 10 top university's in the world. I speak fluently all the languages of our neighbouring country's. All in all I am very happy to be Belgian, for a lot more than all those reasons.

Best regards, Off Road Pat

[wwest5829]

So how much in income and assets in the bank does a falang need to prove in order to retire in Thailand? And how much do you suppose the average Mexican fence climber has in his pockets?

The farang, then would be legal. Your question then, should be, how much does a Mexican have to have to legally retire in the US. Is this not correct?

Edited March 13, 2016 by wwest5829

[KC 71]

The new world order want to get rid of nationalism- thats why they are letting migrants in- once people loose their sense of pride for their country, they will try and show people they are making order out of chaos !

This was planned a long long time ago by the global elite

[ThaiWai]

Thais could learn so much from us and the regular moan of Thais dont want us here.

You make a very interesting correlation here. I feel I can learn things from the Thai culture and the Thai way of life. I like that they are smiling and non-confrontational and generally seem much happier than the people back home. When I see poor people who get more enjoyment from life than middle and upper middle back home, I think there is something to be learned.

Maybe with that attitude, [respect] - - I never seem to experience a feeling that Thai do not want me here.

I am sure if I walked around instructing Thai in how to live properly by my standards or Western standards, or call them stupid as many do on this forum, sure, there would be natural resentment on their part...

As to things not changing - just not the way of the world... and the larger the population, the faster things seem to change.

Omg bold font! My eyes!! My eyes!!!!!!!!!!

[Bernard Flint]

I am very happy that the uk is not the same as 1945

[Suradit69]

So now illegal mexicans in USA is the same as legal long time "tourists" in Thailand? Ok... gotcha!

You should in include all the over-stayers who are coming out of the woodwork now and those who work illegally and those who use "special agents" to circumvent immigration regulations and those who have exploited such options as the Ed visa or extension while having no interest in learning anything and often not showing up for classes, etc. The distinction between legal and illegal isn't always clear cut. Lacking the minimal financial requirements for a long stay means you're essentially an economic refugee.

And on the other side, many US citizens or those who are otherwise legally in the US are harassed by law enforcement or self-appointed vigilantes simply because they appear to be Hispanic or Indian or Arabic or ...

Rubio, Bush and Cruz have recent family links to immigrants and, for that matter, most US citizens of numerous generations still connect in some way to our heritage in another country. But the GOP candidates only cautiously veer from the right-wing philosophy that all immigration is to be regarded as suspect. Not a problem if that's a connection to a European country, but anyone whose skin isn't lilly white or anyone who otherwise doesn't fit the WASP profile will always be viewed with some suspicion.

During World War II we fought the Germans, the Italians, the Japanese ... but guess which American citizens were the only ones in the US who had their property confiscated and who were herded into concentration camps.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Suradit69

[Bill Miller]

So how much in income and assets in the bank does a falang need to prove in order to retire in Thailand? And how much do you suppose the average Mexican fence climber has in his pockets?

The farang, then would be legal. Your question then, should be, how much does a Mexican have to have to legally retire in the US. Is this not correct?

A false equivalency altogether. A more apt comparison would be of the Mexican undocumented immigrants to the undocumented Myanmar, Laotian, etc. workers in Thailand. Apparently plenty of dodgy farangs here, too.... overstayers, workers without permits, etc., etc.

There are plenty of legal Mexican immigrants to the US, and they have a fairly straightforward path to permanent residence and/or citizenship.

[Jeffkp]

I won't comment on Thais. I think that's a different issue. As an American, I've noticed that as many folks got older, their world view became more conservative and angry. I think as people become older, they fear and resent any change.

This is especially true in the US. We've seen so many societal changes in the last thirty years.

But sadly, you can't freeze time.

[Thingamabob]

Reference comment from Bernard Flint, and speaking as an old man, I can assure him that Britain in 1945 was a much happier place than it is today in spite of WW2 and all the consequential deprivations.

[Pdaz]

The western Govt and the liberal/lefty lovies bend over backwards to protect and defend the primative culture of some west african or amazonian tribe. They are desperate to defend their way of life, their customs, their belief and their method of dress. However when a Brit bloke moans that he would like to preserve his way of life and culture he is labelled a racist. Why is change constantly forced upon us but a bunch of natives with a primative culture are given aid to remain as they always have ? Why can't they be dragged into the 21st century, forced to find work and then taxed to death like the rest of us ? Flooding Europe and the UK with migrants, criminals and cheap labour is not improving the quality of life for thevaverage Brit. Bringing in well qualified people from overseas to fill gaps and assist our economy is a very different thing. We don't need to import the feckless as we have enough of the home grown variety..