France says ‘no’ to controversial plan to strip terrorists of their nationality

[webfact]

France says ‘no’ to controversial plan to strip terrorists of their nationality
By Sarah Joanne Taylor | With REUTERS



"A compromise appears out of reach."

PARIS: -- French President François Hollande has dropped controversial plans to change the constitution; plans which included a clause allowing convicted terrorists to be stripped of their French nationality, if they are dual nationals.

Solo French nationals were not included in the proposed bill.

The decision came after France’s two houses of parliament failed to agree on the proposed reforms.

“A compromise appears out of reach,” Hollande said of the outcome.

“Parts of the opposition have been hostile to a revision of the constitution. I deplore this attitude,” he continued. “I have decided to end this debate.”

It’s a huge setback for the Socialist president, who suggested the measure three days after the November 13 terror attacks in Paris.

Claimed by the ISIL militant group, the series of coordinated bombings and shootings killed 130 people.

The withdrawal of the plan ends months of heated debate on the subject, with critics dismissing it as inefficient and purely symbolic.

Also included in the plan — and, therefore, to be dropped — was Hollande’s proposal to add rules for a state of emergency to the French constitution.

A clause for confiscating passports was brought to an abrupt halt last week. The opposition-controlled upper house of parliament approved a different version of it to that adopted earlier by the Socialist-controlled lower house.

Changing the constitution requires three-fifths of both houses of parliament to approve the government’s proposal in exactly the same terms.

Hollande had, initially appeared resolute about the suggested amendments to the constitution. The measure was favoured by the right and MPs gave him a standing ovation when he put forward the proposal at a rare, joint meeting of the lower and upper houses.

Frederic Dabi at the Ifop pollster said the withdrawal of the plans to change the constitution will present the president as an ineffective leader.

“It’s going to revive the perception of a president who is not determined, who lacks authority, whose hand is shaking,” he told Reuters. “It also reinforces the feeling of a term during which reforms have dragged on, got bogged down.”

Once the shock of the Paris attacks began to fade, however, many on the left of the president’s ruling Socialists began to criticise the measure. They said it created a two-tier nation and disagreed with the idea of differentiating between dual and solo nationals.

Conservative former Prime Minister, Jean-Pierre Raffari labelled their disapproval a “blow by [Hollande’s] political friends.”

“The president’s authority over his own troops is being challenged,” he added.

Cracks have begun to show within the Socialist Party. Notably, in January 2016, the-then-Justice Minister, Christiane Taubira, handed in her resignation in the fallout over the proposed stripping of the nationality of convicted terrorists.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-03-31

[craigt3365]

Maybe they should do what Russia does:

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20131025/184354003/Law-Passed-in-Russia-to-Punish-Terrorists-Relatives.html

Law Passed in Russia to Punish Terrorists' Relatives

Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

MOSCOW, October 25 (RIA Novosti) – Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

The law approved by the State Duma, the country’s lower house of parliament, was submitted by President Vladimir Putin’s office and includes measures to criminalize training in terrorist camps.

[SgtRock]

A crushing and humiliating U-Turn by Hollande.

This is more ammunition for Front Nationale.

Cracks have begun to show within the Socialist Party. Notably, in January 2016, the-then-Justice Minister, Christiane Taubira, handed in her resignation in the fallout over the proposed stripping of the nationality of convicted terrorists.

She should have been sacked from her role as Justice Minister. Anyone who sees a problem with stripping people of Nationality when they hold dual Nationality, who are convicted of terrorism, is living in a parallel universe.

Leaders ? There is a joke in there somewhere.

[SgtRock]

Maybe they should do what Russia does:

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20131025/184354003/Law-Passed-in-Russia-to-Punish-Terrorists-Relatives.html

Law Passed in Russia to Punish Terrorists' Relatives

Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

MOSCOW, October 25 (RIA Novosti) – Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

The law approved by the State Duma, the country’s lower house of parliament, was submitted by President Vladimir Putin’s office and includes measures to criminalize training in terrorist camps.

Think what you will of Russians.

At least some of them have balls and a spine.

[craigt3365]

Maybe they should do what Russia does:

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20131025/184354003/Law-Passed-in-Russia-to-Punish-Terrorists-Relatives.html

Law Passed in Russia to Punish Terrorists' Relatives

Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

MOSCOW, October 25 (RIA Novosti) – Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

The law approved by the State Duma, the country’s lower house of parliament, was submitted by President Vladimir Putin’s office and includes measures to criminalize training in terrorist camps.

Think what you will of Russians.

At least some of them have balls and a spine.

Sadly, the relatives may have had nothing to do with the terrorist act, but may have their lives ruined forever. If we use this philosophy, if your kid commits a crime, you'll pay the penalty. Even if they no longer live at home and you've not been in contact with them for years. Not sure that works out well...

[Yann55]

OMG, look at the guy standing between Hollande and the bald guy. He looks soooooo much like Mr Bean, it's staggering !

[Yann55]

Quote : Frederic Dabi at the Ifop pollster said the withdrawal of the plans to change the constitution will present the president as an ineffective leader.

An 'ineffective leader' is precisely what Mr Hollande is.

Mind you, he was elected not because France wanted him for President but because Sarkozy had managed to foster so much resentment against himself that the French would have elected just about anyone in order to get rid of that self-important clown on steroids.

A clown who is nevertheless about to present himself at the next presidential election, which proves how totally out of touch most politicians can be, surrounded as they are by brown-nosed sycophants.

[Sydebolle]

I'm not French to start with. Yet, if a dual national attacks anything "official French" I'd expel him after taking everything (s)he has away for damage compensation, waive the right of data protection (finger prints, electronic face recognition etc.) and publicly announce who is leaving France once and for good through a website or whatever else is public enough.

How can a government continue to let people maintaining the nationality of a country the latter officially terrorises? Bienvenue en France

[LukKrueng]

Maybe they should do what Russia does:

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20131025/184354003/Law-Passed-in-Russia-to-Punish-Terrorists-Relatives.html

Law Passed in Russia to Punish Terrorists' Relatives

Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

MOSCOW, October 25 (RIA Novosti) – Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

The law approved by the State Duma, the country’s lower house of parliament, was submitted by President Vladimir Putin’s office and includes measures to criminalize training in terrorist camps.

Think what you will of Russians.

At least some of them have balls and a spine.

Sadly, the relatives may have had nothing to do with the terrorist act, but may have their lives ruined forever. If we use this philosophy, if your kid commits a crime, you'll pay the penalty. Even if they no longer live at home and you've not been in contact with them for years. Not sure that works out well...

You look at the wrong end of the rope. The idea of such a law is not to get the money from the relatives, nor to punish them. But a would be terrorist MIGHT think twice before he decides to act if he knows the grief his action will cause his family. This is the only way you might be able to stop those terrorist. Threatening them with the death penalty is worthless as they plan to die anyway on their way to "shahidness" and becoming the masters of 72 virgins.

[Tchooptip]

France says no to controversial plan to strip terrorists of their nationality

Correction:

Leftist president François Hollande says no to controversial plan to strip terrorists of their nationality not to upset his main Muslim electorate

Edited March 31, 2016 by Tchooptip

[simple1]

Sadly, the relatives may have had nothing to do with the terrorist act, but may have their lives ruined forever. If we use this philosophy, if your kid commits a crime, you'll pay the penalty. Even if they no longer live at home and you've not been in contact with them for years. Not sure that works out well...

You look at the wrong end of the rope. The idea of such a law is not to get the money from the relatives, nor to punish them. But a would be terrorist MIGHT think twice before he decides to act if he knows the grief his action will cause his family. This is the only way you might be able to stop those terrorist. Threatening them with the death penalty is worthless as they plan to die anyway on their way to "shahidness" and becoming the masters of 72 virgins.

The Israelis destroy the family house of terrorists, does this policy reduce acts of terrorism? Sincere question.

[craigt3365]

I'm looking at it from both points of view. Parents/relatives can't be 100% responsible for the actions of their kids/relatives. A good deterrent, but could end up really hurting innocent people, including children.

[petermik]

Think what you will of Russians.

At least some of them have balls and a spine.

Sadly, the relatives may have had nothing to do with the terrorist act, but may have their lives ruined forever. If we use this philosophy, if your kid commits a crime, you'll pay the penalty. Even if they no longer live at home and you've not been in contact with them for years. Not sure that works out well...

If it deters just one act of terrorism it would be well worth it-I suggested recently in another thread imprisoning the immediate family of all convicted terrorists/suicide bombers,maybe then they might reconsider there actions,to those that do not care less about their family up to them.

[LukKrueng]

Sadly, the relatives may have had nothing to do with the terrorist act, but may have their lives ruined forever. If we use this philosophy, if your kid commits a crime, you'll pay the penalty. Even if they no longer live at home and you've not been in contact with them for years. Not sure that works out well...

You look at the wrong end of the rope. The idea of such a law is not to get the money from the relatives, nor to punish them. But a would be terrorist MIGHT think twice before he decides to act if he knows the grief his action will cause his family. This is the only way you might be able to stop those terrorist. Threatening them with the death penalty is worthless as they plan to die anyway on their way to "shahidness" and becoming the masters of 72 virgins.

The Israelis destroy the family house of terrorists, does this policy reduce acts of terrorism? Sincere question.

The Israelis have a weird justice system where as after each terror attack they have to go through court before they can destroy the house. This procedure takes months, and in some cases the court refuse permitting the action (only yesterday they have destroyed a house as punishment for an attack that happened in December last year...). So, no, it doesn't have the full desired effect on terrorists as they know their families will have a long enough time to get their life in order before their home is destroyed, and they also know there is a good chance the house won't be destroyed at all - simple casino rules of gambling.

But if they know that an action is going to be taken against their relatives immediately, no questions, no courts - only clear proof of identity of the terrorist and clear proof of relations to the punishable party - then it would be a different story. You won't have so many parents that encourage their children to commit an act that will destroy their own lives

Edited March 31, 2016 by LukKrueng

[craigt3365]

I think an easier solution would be to just expel them. No job, go home. Protest on the streets, go home. Stand in a park and threaten your host country, go home. I shudder when I see videos of Muslims criticizing their host countries. Issuing threats, etc. Unreal.

Egypt had a problem in a village between Cario and Luxor. Men from this village were attacking vehicles and doing terrorist activities. They went in and create jobs. The men then had something to do. Some way to support their family. Idle hands are the devil's tool....

[simple1]

I think an easier solution would be to just expel them. No job, go home. Protest on the streets, go home. Stand in a park and threaten your host country, go home. I shudder when I see videos of Muslims criticizing their host countries. Issuing threats, etc. Unreal.

Egypt had a problem in a village between Cario and Luxor. Men from this village were attacking vehicles and doing terrorist activities. They went in and create jobs. The men then had something to do. Some way to support their family. Idle hands are the devil's tool....

To expel 'them' requires govt to govt agreement which coincidentally is one of the major reasons why until very recently EU countries were unable to deport many of the economic refugees. Agreement are now slowly being finalised with a number of countries, I believe Morocco is a recent example.

[Scott]

Sadly, the relatives may have had nothing to do with the terrorist act, but may have their lives ruined forever. If we use this philosophy, if your kid commits a crime, you'll pay the penalty. Even if they no longer live at home and you've not been in contact with them for years. Not sure that works out well...

You look at the wrong end of the rope. The idea of such a law is not to get the money from the relatives, nor to punish them. But a would be terrorist MIGHT think twice before he decides to act if he knows the grief his action will cause his family. This is the only way you might be able to stop those terrorist. Threatening them with the death penalty is worthless as they plan to die anyway on their way to "shahidness" and becoming the masters of 72 virgins.

The Israelis destroy the family house of terrorists, does this policy reduce acts of terrorism? Sincere question.

That is not unique to Israel. It's sort of a ME thing. When I was working in Iraq, there were a lot of beautiful houses and interspersed were piles of ruble. It seemed that these were houses that were destroyed by the Iraqi gov't for misdeeds done by a family member. The area was predominantly Kurdish, but a few of the houses had been owned by Arab members of the military who fell afoul of the regime.

It made absolutely no sense, to me, but apparently it was sort of standard procedure for some crimes. It seemed to make sense to the people, for what that's worth.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... many on the left of the president’s ruling Socialists ... they said it created a two-tier nation and disagreed with the idea of differentiating between dual and solo nationals.' A two-tier nation? Surely the dual nationals can be described as two-tier. How the hell can they not differentiate between them and single-nationality French?

Terrorists choose their path. If they're caught, and are dual nationals, the chances are that they are French - or of whichever western country accepted them - by choice, not by birth. Certainly the British citizenship system does allow for loss of British nationality in similar circumstances - though I'm far from convinced that any British home secretary would demonstrate the metaphorical balls to carry it through.

[uptheos]

OMG, look at the guy standing between Hollande and the bald guy. He looks soooooo much like Mr Bean, it's staggering !

It's France......it IS Mr Bean they have lots of them.

[soc]

What an opportunity lost, M'sieur Le President.

[Yann55]

OMG, look at the guy standing between Hollande and the bald guy. He looks soooooo much like Mr Bean, it's staggering !

It's France......it IS Mr Bean they have lots of them.

My post was merely a joke, and I don't appreciate your using it as a back-up to your stupid francophobic comment, Mr Lame.

I know that most of the British posters on this Forum are extreme right wing bigots who can't see the words 'French' or 'France' appear anywhere without starting to quack viciously like a bunch of ageing Thatcherettes, but I don't belong to that club and never will, thank you very much.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Yann55

[soc]

OMG, look at the guy standing between Hollande and the bald guy. He looks soooooo much like Mr Bean, it's staggering !

It's France......it IS Mr Bean they have lots of them.

My post was merely a joke, I don't like you using it to support your stupid francophobic comment, Mr Lame.

I know that most of the British posters on this Forum are extreme right wing bigots who can't see the words 'French' or 'France' appear anywhere without starting to quack viciously like a bunch of ageing Thatcherettes, but I don't belong to that club and never will, thank you very much.

Don't get your knickers in a knot.

Many of us like the French.

l have quite a few French friends.

[Yann55]

OMG, look at the guy standing between Hollande and the bald guy. He looks soooooo much like Mr Bean, it's staggering !

It's France......it IS Mr Bean they have lots of them.

My post was merely a joke, I don't like you using it to support your stupid francophobic comment, Mr Lame.

I know that most of the British posters on this Forum are extreme right wing bigots who can't see the words 'French' or 'France' appear anywhere without starting to quack viciously like a bunch of ageing Thatcherettes, but I don't belong to that club and never will, thank you very much.

Don't get your knickers in a knot.

Many of us like the French.

l have quite a few French friends.

Well, I guess you're not an Ageing Thatcherette then, good for you, and my knickers are fine thank you. How are yours ?

[soc]

Clean at the moment, but the night is still young

[simple1]

'... many on the left of the president’s ruling Socialists ... they said it created a two-tier nation and disagreed with the idea of differentiating between dual and solo nationals.' A two-tier nation? Surely the dual nationals can be described as two-tier. How the hell can they not differentiate between them and single-nationality French?

Terrorists choose their path. If they're caught, and are dual nationals, the chances are that they are French - or of whichever western country accepted them - by choice, not by birth. Certainly the British citizenship system does allow for loss of British nationality in similar circumstances - though I'm far from convinced that any British home secretary would demonstrate the metaphorical balls to carry it through.

Home Office has cancelled UK citizenship and deported a number of dual nationals

[Grouse]

Maybe they should do what Russia does:

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20131025/184354003/Law-Passed-in-Russia-to-Punish-Terrorists-Relatives.html

Law Passed in Russia to Punish Terrorists' Relatives

Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

MOSCOW, October 25 (RIA Novosti) Russian legislators unanimously passed a law Friday forcing the relatives of terrorists to pay for the damages caused by their attacks.

The law approved by the State Duma, the countrys lower house of parliament, was submitted by President Vladimir Putins office and includes measures to criminalize training in terrorist camps.

Think what you will of Russians.

At least some of them have balls and a spine.

I'm afraid that nicely illustrates your stance on many threads

What about brains? Humanity? Intelligence?

Hmmm