Reenactment and guilt – the Thai face of crime, punishment and society?

[Inspire]

Reenactment and guilt – the Thai face of crime, punishment and society?



For many newbies to Thailand, expats and a whole army of netizens the police handling of the Ko Tao double murder came under incredulous and rightful scrutiny.

But no issue connected to the sensational case, apart from perhaps the guilt or not of the two Burmese men itself, caused as much comment, ridicule and collective head shaking as the reenactment of the crime.

The two men were dressed up in helmets and made to show an expectant world what it was they had done. Thai Police then hoped that would be an end of the matter. Case closed.

Indeed, in thousands upon thousands of cases of rape, robbery, assault and even murder, that is precisely what has happened. But then in nearly all those cases, where international media couldn’t have given two hoots about the crimes, the perps were not about to change their story.

In the Ko Tao case, that no one could say was not very poorly handled if not corrupt, human rights lawyers got involved and the hapless Burmese then changed their story and alleged torture and coercion.

Most cases receive no such publicity, the guilty readily admitting their crimes and appearing in front of press, TV and cameras, pointing at victims, showing with volunteers how the deed was done with knife and toy gun.

So why would they do this?

Thailand is a country where the police make incredible and unguarded comments as a matter of course. Sub-judice as exhibited in many systems in Europe for example is just not heeded or even on the books. When a suspect is apprehended he, or she, is quickly reminded that it is in their best interests to say “fair cop” admit to everything and not to waste people’s time on arguing.

This kind of kowtowing to authority is not peculiar to the police and criminal conundrum. It’s feudal nature is pervasive in all aspects of Thai society with its reliance on ‘greng jai’ and respect for elders just the tip of an iceberg of deference shown from one sector of society to another.

Read the full story here: http://www.inspirepattaya.com/lifestyle/reenactment-guilt-thai-face-crime-punishment-society/

-- Inspire Pattaya 2016-03-04

[technologybytes]

The truth is that there is injustice in every society. The USA for example decides to sentence children to life in prison without any chance of parole, many of them for non-violent offences.

The UK has a history of sentencing innocent men to life in prison, in a recent example a man called Barry George was sentenced to life for a murder he never could have committed, in a trial where there was no evidence. The appeals process saw him released after 6 years but he has repeatedly been denied any compensation.

Again and again, so called civilised societies make massive errors in their justice systems, and yes so does Thailand.

[partington]

You are conflating and confusing "mistakes" with deliberate intentions.

If I lose control of my vehicle because the steering link breaks suddenly and plough into a pedestrian, killing them , that is a"mistake". If I look for a pedestrian, deliberately try to kill them and then drive off again, that is "intent".

In the Barry George case the faulty guilty verdict is seen as an error that must be corrected, an anomaly and a stain on the UK judicial system that is deplored and regretted and that no-one ever wants to happen.

In Thailand the parading of suspects around re-enacting crimes and the lack of importance assigned to evidence is a deliberate, intentional and applauded part of the system, that is regularly defended by Thai police hierarchy, and held up as an ideal and beneficial part of criminal justice. It is not considered a "mistake" and is completely intentional.

This is the difference, and calling something a mistake obscures the issue not defends it.

[yellowboat]

The truth is that there is injustice in every society. The USA for example decides to sentence children to life in prison without any chance of parole, many of them for non-violent offences.

The UK has a history of sentencing innocent men to life in prison, in a recent example a man called Barry George was sentenced to life for a murder he never could have committed, in a trial where there was no evidence. The appeals process saw him released after 6 years but he has repeatedly been denied any compensation.

Again and again, so called civilised societies make massive errors in their justice systems, and yes so does Thailand.

Yes, miscarriages do happen everywhere. What you mention above though speaks to if you do not know your rights you do not have them. Most people, even the innocent, put themselves perilous situations by not knowing their rights and by talking. If you are an uneducated person in Thailand, you probably do not know what to do or who to call, and you will say anything.

[elgordo38]

You are conflating and confusing "mistakes" with deliberate intentions.

If I lose control of my vehicle because the steering link breaks suddenly and plough into a pedestrian, killing them , that is a"mistake". If I look for a pedestrian, deliberately try to kill them and then drive off again, that is "intent".

In the Barry George case the faulty guilty verdict is seen as an error that must be corrected, an anomaly and a stain on the UK judicial system that is deplored and regretted and that no-one ever wants to happen.

In Thailand the parading of suspects around re-enacting crimes and the lack of importance assigned to evidence is a deliberate, intentional and applauded part of the system, that is regularly defended by Thai police hierarchy, and held up as an ideal and beneficial part of criminal justice. It is not considered a "mistake" and is completely intentional.

This is the difference, and calling something a mistake obscures the issue not defends it.

Anyone can be "trained" to go through the motions of a crime especially if they perceive they have no chance of being found innocent and also if they are fed the carrot of "your sentence will be cut in half if you plead guilty" or they are softened up a bit by heavy interrogation. Most Thai's understand the system and take the carrot. The police get glad handed for another crime solved and a job well done and so life goes on in the LOS

[Minnehaha]

The truth is that there is injustice in every society. The USA for example decides to sentence children to life in prison without any chance of parole, many of them for non-violent offences.

The UK has a history of sentencing innocent men to life in prison, in a recent example a man called Barry George was sentenced to life for a murder he never could have committed, in a trial where there was no evidence. The appeals process saw him released after 6 years but he has repeatedly been denied any compensation.

Again and again, so called civilised societies make massive errors in their justice systems, and yes so does Thailand.

Yes, miscarriages do happen everywhere. What you mention above though speaks to if you do not know your rights you do not have them. Most people, even the innocent, put themselves perilous situations by not knowing their rights and by talking. If you are an uneducated person in Thailand, you probably do not know what to do or who to call, and you will say anything.

people do not know their rights

police do not know their rights or the people's rights

authorities ignore rights

authorities extend special rights

courts are corrupt

these are not all true all the time but they are all true more often than one would hope.

nothing surprises me anymore

I know the lawyer that defended those 2 Burmese. When asked about their chances before the trial, he said "the whole system is moving in a direction with a sense of completeness in virtually all parts of the government and law enforcement (I did not ask about influential persons) were moving in one direction with a sense of pith and moment that was not going to turn awry and lose the name of action. He said the only hope is to raise enough to get it on the record to achieve something in appeal.

[Asheron]

The truth is that there is injustice in every society. The USA for example decides to sentence children to life in prison without any chance of parole, many of them for non-violent offences.

The UK has a history of sentencing innocent men to life in prison, in a recent example a man called Barry George was sentenced to life for a murder he never could have committed, in a trial where there was no evidence. The appeals process saw him released after 6 years but he has repeatedly been denied any compensation.

Again and again, so called civilised societies make massive errors in their justice systems, and yes so does Thailand.

Nothing new really...

In my shithole nation the lowest courts routinely sentence people without any evidence whatsoever. How do i know? Well lets just say that my shithole nations courts have politically appointed judges (lowest and second "district courts" have, third is supreme court which does not have) without any kind of education about law and one *real* judge who went to law school and i have been one of those 3 politically appointed judges without law education. And if these three politically appointed "judges" say that a person is guilty and the real judge says no then that person will still get a sentence.

And this shithole nation is usually referred to as Sweden. Soon Swedenistan.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Asheron

[mikiea]

60 70 years from now , people will refer to today as the dark times , almost the same as china and the cultural revolution .

[TuskegeeBen]

60 70 years from now , people will refer to today as the dark times , almost the same as china and the cultural revolution .

Considering the "Yellow Brick Road" path this current civilization is traveling, every living creature on this planet will be long-gone, 60-70 years from now. So, no worries about any "cultural" revolution, in any way, shape or form.

Edited April 3, 2016 by TuskegeeBen