Living in Thailand with no health insurance

[JLCrab]

... and I prefer to carry a card from an insurer that the hospital deals with hundreds of times per week that says I am good for X million baht per incident and I don't have to wait for a cheque to clear.

My father played golf one morning with a much younger corporate executive. The guy returned to work and after work, the guy went for a jog, returned to his house and dropped dead on his porch from a heart attack. So one never knows. do one?

[tonray]

... and I prefer to carry a card from an insurer that the hospital deals with hundreds of times per week that says I am good for X million baht per incident and I don't have to wait for a cheque to clear.

My father played golf one morning with a much younger corporate executive. The guy returned to work and after work, the guy went for a jog, returned to his house and dropped dead on his porch from a heart attack. So one never knows. do one?

Did his insurer cover it or was it considered a pre-existing illness ?

[LivinLOS]

... and I prefer to carry a card from an insurer that the hospital deals with hundreds of times per week that says I am good for X million baht per incident and I don't have to wait for a cheque to clear.

My father played golf one morning with a much younger corporate executive. The guy returned to work and after work, the guy went for a jog, returned to his house and dropped dead on his porch from a heart attack. So one never knows. do one?

Any injury or illness that runs up multi millions in hospital fees, takes long enough theres no waiting.. In fact dealing in cash gets much better response than dealing via insurers, for a start they knock 20 or so % off for us that pay personally, so again your beating the aggregate.

Anyway... You can carry your card as part of a herd.. I just carry my own plastic.. They both work.

As for the guy who dropped down dead.. What difference did either way of handling it have on the outcome ?

[JLCrab]

Part of the herd. So you are not part of the herd. I'll just leave it there.

[LivinLOS]

But thats what collectivization is.. Fear.. Desire to be protected.. Desire to accept lower reward for less risk.. Herd mentality.

Not only insurance but the whole lot.. Pensions.. Other people managing your money with unit trusts or similar..

[JLCrab]

Well I figured all along this was not about financial analysis but libertarian mumbo-jumbo.

[CharlieH]

At the end of the day its not up to anyone to persuade or dissuade is it, its an individual informed choice.

Either you do think its required, or you dont, and their are valid arguments on both sides dependent on individual circumstance.

Personal decision and choice.

[LivinLOS]

Well I figured all along this was not about financial analysis but libertarian mumbo-jumbo.

Ok so what is insurance if it isnt just that.. Fear that a bill will be too much, effect your lifestyle, effect your future..

So you agree to pay a little bit now, to ease the fear of a bad thing happening.

[sirineou]

But thats what collectivization is.. Fear.. Desire to be protected.. Desire to accept lower reward for less risk.. Herd mentality.

Not only insurance but the whole lot.. Pensions.. Other people managing your money with unit trusts or similar..

First I dont except your premise that a desire to be protected is herd mentality,

It is prudent mentality.

Second , there is good reason why certain animals form herds, Next time you are at the savanna , count the number of herd animals, and then count the lone predators.

I think you will find "collectivization " to be a successful survival strategy.

[KC 71]

There is no insurance

Well as you can read on the thread there is l have a card for health insurance now and a card for accident insurance also a card for the gov hospital.

All better than what l had before, nowt.

Good luck with the payout

[LivinLOS]

But thats what collectivization is.. Fear.. Desire to be protected.. Desire to accept lower reward for less risk.. Herd mentality.

Not only insurance but the whole lot.. Pensions.. Other people managing your money with unit trusts or similar..

First I dont except your premise that a desire to be protected is herd mentality,

It is prudent mentality.

Second , there is good reason why certain animals form herds, Next time you are at the savanna , count the number of herd animals, and then count the lone predators.

I think you will find "collectivization " to be a successful survival strategy.

If you consider your self a prey animal.. Then I am sure its a valid strategy..

The thought never entered my mind.

[JLCrab]

Well I figured all along this was not about financial analysis but libertarian mumbo-jumbo.

Ok so what is insurance if it isnt just that.. Fear that a bill will be too much, effect your lifestyle, effect your future..

So you agree to pay a little bit now, to ease the fear of a bad thing happening.

It is a rational financial decision whether I have enough cash on hand to pay for a bill or not. I am not trying to convince anyone however there are persons reading this and the insurance forum trying to decide what to do. I am concerned about them -- not you. For some it might be a good time to get insurance now and if they delay it might no longer be.

And a I've said, some who have enough money to donate funds for a new wing at the hospital still buy insurance as it is a prudent risk.

Edited April 8, 2016 by JLCrab

[sirineou]

But thats what collectivization is.. Fear.. Desire to be protected.. Desire to accept lower reward for less risk.. Herd mentality.

Not only insurance but the whole lot.. Pensions.. Other people managing your money with unit trusts or similar..

First I dont except your premise that a desire to be protected is herd mentality,

It is prudent mentality.

Second , there is good reason why certain animals form herds, Next time you are at the savanna , count the number of herd animals, and then count the lone predators.

I think you will find "collectivization " to be a successful survival strategy.

If you consider your self a prey animal.. Then I am sure its a valid strategy..

The thought never entered my mind.

I consider my self to be successful, and I use the best strategy towards that goal. I I find successes in the herd, then that's where you will find me, and when going at it along is more prudent, that's where I will be.

When it comes to risk I like to spread it, and nobody spreads it better than me

Pride is not only one of the seven sins, in the face of overwhelming, contradicting evidence is stupidity.

[tonray]

But thats what collectivization is.. Fear.. Desire to be protected.. Desire to accept lower reward for less risk.. Herd mentality.

Not only insurance but the whole lot.. Pensions.. Other people managing your money with unit trusts or similar..

Wouldn't going to hospital where the 'herd' goes for treatment also be forbidden in your ideology ?

Why trust medical professionals, after all they are trained to cure the great unwashed masses (herd) ?

Perhaps you can go completely off the grid, grow your own food (why rely on society to provide sustenance) and provide your own well for water too.

We all like the herd when it does things for us but you only take the good parts of society and reject the ones you don't like....laughable.

[LivinLOS]

But thats what collectivization is.. Fear.. Desire to be protected.. Desire to accept lower reward for less risk.. Herd mentality.

Not only insurance but the whole lot.. Pensions.. Other people managing your money with unit trusts or similar..

Wouldn't going to hospital where the 'herd' goes for treatment also be forbidden in your ideology ?

Why trust medical professionals, after all they are trained to cure the great unwashed masses (herd) ?

Perhaps you can go completely off the grid, grow your own food (why rely on society to provide sustenance) and provide your own well for water too.

We all like the herd when it does things for us but you only take the good parts of society and reject the ones you don't like....laughable.

Not at all, you find the best available specialist to give you personal attention (also convenience.. I use RAM not brumingrad as flying to bkk is a hassle). I then evaluate their advice, and decide if I think they are correct.

I have upset Thai doctors in the past as I didnt agree with them.. Never seen an adult professional have such a dummy spit..

[SpokaneAl]

Well I figured all along this was not about financial analysis but libertarian mumbo-jumbo.

Ok so what is insurance if it isnt just that.. Fear that a bill will be too much, effect your lifestyle, effect your future..

So you agree to pay a little bit now, to ease the fear of a bad thing happening.

Duplicate response deleted.

Edited April 8, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[SpokaneAl]

Well I figured all along this was not about financial analysis but libertarian mumbo-jumbo.

Ok so what is insurance if it isnt just that.. Fear that a bill will be too much, effect your lifestyle, effect your future..

So you agree to pay a little bit now, to ease the fear of a bad thing happening.

No, it is not about fear. It is about making an informed analysis and judgement on the potential risks and deciding whether or not to purchase a product that alleviates part or all of that risk. Simple.

It is why I wear a seatbelt, or a helmet while riding my bike or scooter. It is why I don't drink from the scummy pond on the side of the road.

To say buying insurance is generated by fear as if this is some kind of personal weakness is just silly.

Edited April 8, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[NancyL]

I've assisted a number of expats who unhappily found themselves in crowded, hot wards at government hospitals because there was an assumption they weren't going to be able to pay their medical bill. Perhaps they were in an accident or found wandering unable to communicate due to a medical problem and initially were taken to a private hospital, but their wallet didn't pass muster and nothing about their appearance instilled confidence that they'd be able to pay their bill, either. These people are quickly bundled off to a gov't hospital.

If they'd had an insurance card, or even instructions on who to contact locally in their wallet they would have found themselves receiving treatment in a more comfortable environment. Yes, private hospitals love to see insurance cards they recognize. They especially love it when they see a card from a company they deal with every day. In response to the post about "good luck ever getting money from an insurance company" -- that's simply hogwash.

I'm a big fan of the Personal Accident Senior Plus plan offered by Bangkok Bank. Yes, I know there may be other plans that may be "better", but what is good about this one is the ease of purchase (many senior expats deal with Bangkok Bank already), upper age limit of 100 and the numerous first-hand accounts I've heard of people going to CM Ram right after an accident, presenting their Bangkok Bank PA card and never seeing a bill. It costs something like 7000 baht per year for max cover of 200,000 baht. No deductible and no pre-existing conditions excluded. Every senior expat should be able to afford 7000 baht per year. I've taken guys in wheelchairs or using a cane to buy this policy.

[LivinLOS]

No, it is not about fear. It is about making an informed analysis and judgement on the potential risks and deciding whether or not to purchase a product that alleviates part or all of that risk. Simple.

It is why I wear a seatbelt, or a helmet while riding my bike or scooter. It is why I don't drink from the scummy pond on the side of the road.

To say buying insurance is generated by fear as if this is some kind of personal weakness is just silly.

Wearing a seatbelt.. Or helmet.. Or drinking scummy water are all free..

Insurance is the act of paying now, on aggregate more than it will cost, to be free of any large bill your worried about not being able to handle.

Thats fear / concern / worry or whatever you wish to call it. I understand it, I advice anyone who cant pay their bills to have it.. I just dont take part in it.

[NancyL]

No, it is not about fear. It is about making an informed analysis and judgement on the potential risks and deciding whether or not to purchase a product that alleviates part or all of that risk. Simple.

It is why I wear a seatbelt, or a helmet while riding my bike or scooter. It is why I don't drink from the scummy pond on the side of the road.

To say buying insurance is generated by fear as if this is some kind of personal weakness is just silly.

Wearing a seatbelt.. Or helmet.. Or drinking scummy water are all free..

Insurance is the act of paying now, on aggregate more than it will cost, to be free of any large bill your worried about not being able to handle.

Thats fear / concern / worry or whatever you wish to call it. I understand it, I advice anyone who cant pay their bills to have it.. I just dont take part in it.

I've got way more than 200,000 baht on deposit at Bangkok Bank, yet I have one of their PA Senior First policies. How is someone at a hospital suppose to know my bank balance in looking at my wallet if I'm unable to communicate? Yet the PA card says it all. So does my health insurance card. That policy has a high deductible, so I figure I'll use the PA policy to pay the deductible.

Why spend down my money when I can afford to buy insurance?

[LannaGuy]

No, it is not about fear. It is about making an informed analysis and judgement on the potential risks and deciding whether or not to purchase a product that alleviates part or all of that risk. Simple.

It is why I wear a seatbelt, or a helmet while riding my bike or scooter. It is why I don't drink from the scummy pond on the side of the road.

To say buying insurance is generated by fear as if this is some kind of personal weakness is just silly.

Wearing a seatbelt.. Or helmet.. Or drinking scummy water are all free..

Insurance is the act of paying now, on aggregate more than it will cost, to be free of any large bill your worried about not being able to handle.

Thats fear / concern / worry or whatever you wish to call it. I understand it, I advice anyone who cant pay their bills to have it.. I just dont take part in it.

I've got way more than 200,000 baht on deposit at Bangkok Bank, yet I have one of their PA Senior First policies. How is someone at a hospital suppose to know my bank balance in looking at my wallet if I'm unable to communicate? Yet the PA card says it all. So does my health insurance card. That policy has a high deductible, so I figure I'll use the PA policy to pay the deductible.

Why spend down my money when I can afford to buy insurance?

so you have BUPA and the PA?

[JLCrab]

People buy health insurance because they live in fear. Others do not buy health insurance because they are not part of the herd and are self-reliant. Forget any financial analysis or risk management, this is all psychology.

[billd766]

Personal insurance for the wealthy is a no-brainer as the premiums are minor and there is a big upside if something goes wrong ... and rich people like situations with a big upside. The notion that wealthy people don't buy insurance because they have the funds to cover any type of catastrophe is a myth.

... or as in a famous US commercial why a rich person like him should care about the small matters:

" How do you think a person like me got to be a person like me."

Spot on. I have never seen so much ridiculous justification for an unjustifiable position as in this thread. From; "I'll jump off a balcony" (sure you will), to "rich people don't insure" (you're having a laugh). Insurance is a shared risk proposition. Some of us will claim, some of us won't but the potential upside will nearly always outweigh the potential downside. The idea that as long as you have 3 million Baht, you're OK is absolutely ridiculous. And the vast majority of posters don't have 3 million Baht in liquid assets either. Waiting four years to sell your house while you have cancer will quickly teach you the difference between liquid assets and those that aren't.

If you live in a developing nation like Thailand - you should have health insurance. It should be a condition of any long-term visa for the country (including and perhaps, especially, retirement). No insurance? Then go home.

OK. I will go home if you personally guarantee to look after my Thai wife and son for the rest of your and their lives.

Why should I have to abandon my Thai family just because you think it is a good idea?

Nice, so you had a child and can't take the responsibility for insuring you are healthy enough to raise it? Incredible parenting; I can see why you'd want to shift that job to someone else but I'll pass all the same thanks.

Who said that I am not healthy enough to raise my son? I didn't so it must have been you, who actually have no idea who I am, what my finances are or anything else about me.

What should I have said to my wife?

Sorry dear but I may not be healthy enough to raise your only child in 10 or 15 years time, so go and get an abortion.

Insuring myself has nothing to do with raising a child.

[mania]

This has been a long interesting ..mostly thread.

It came at a time when I have been questioning my existence here.

As detailed in a post I made in this thread I kind of really had to re-think my life here

after just a rather small event.

It was not so much the event but how it was handled/ when it occurred & seeing how the sharks here also exist in the medical arenas.

Maybe it is always this way everywhere & I never noticed as elsewhere had unlimited insurance. So it did not faze us.

But having fully excepted Thailand is Thailand & after years here I expect folks I want or need to buy something from to try & get more from me because I am a foreigner

Fine I am game for it ..I have learned in these years to speak,read & write Thai. I do ok...&vote with my feet if I think it is unfair

But never did I expect such behavior in the medical industry at critical moments when your down.

It really was a slap that shook my Thai wife & I up. Or fully woke us up?

Maybe it is good that it happened now. But stick a fork in me & I think it will come out clean. I think I am done

Sad? yeah a bit

Problem? Not at all we have all our bridges intact

[MadMac]

Correction to my earlier post

Major op 1million Baht

1-2 million per event at a government hospital. 5 mill if private. We have a member ion this board who recently racked up >3 million in a single hospitalization (without major complications, but 2 big specialized surgeries) in a private hospital, and I have seen far, far worse especially after major accidents with multiple trauma. Luckily he was well insured.

You are ignoring one important fact here. Almost all local health insurances come with a limitation of max. 1mTHB coverage.

[TheSiemReaper]

Spot on. I have never seen so much ridiculous justification for an unjustifiable position as in this thread. From; "I'll jump off a balcony" (sure you will), to "rich people don't insure" (you're having a laugh). Insurance is a shared risk proposition. Some of us will claim, some of us won't but the potential upside will nearly always outweigh the potential downside. The idea that as long as you have 3 million Baht, you're OK is absolutely ridiculous. And the vast majority of posters don't have 3 million Baht in liquid assets either. Waiting four years to sell your house while you have cancer will quickly teach you the difference between liquid assets and those that aren't.

If you live in a developing nation like Thailand - you should have health insurance. It should be a condition of any long-term visa for the country (including and perhaps, especially, retirement). No insurance? Then go home.

OK. I will go home if you personally guarantee to look after my Thai wife and son for the rest of your and their lives.

Why should I have to abandon my Thai family just because you think it is a good idea?

Nice, so you had a child and can't take the responsibility for insuring you are healthy enough to raise it? Incredible parenting; I can see why you'd want to shift that job to someone else but I'll pass all the same thanks.

Who said that I am not healthy enough to raise my son? I didn't so it must have been you, who actually have no idea who I am, what my finances are or anything else about me.

What should I have said to my wife?

Sorry dear but I may not be healthy enough to raise your only child in 10 or 15 years time, so go and get an abortion.

Insuring myself has nothing to do with raising a child.

Sure it doesn't. Whatever you say. Whatever it takes to make you feel OK about that eh?

[Bri19000]

I really do think that the majority of posters here talk some amount of pish…!

My mother came to visit over the Xmas period. Unfortunately, for her, she got really quite sick. She dropped a lot of weight, due to constant diarrhoea and vomiting. It was touch and go.

She took out travel insurance before she came, expecting that would cover any bills.

Dealing with insurance / travel insurance companies takes time and can also be quite confusing for some people.

Long story short, she was treated in the government hospital in Mae Rim for just under £70. I didn’t bother with her travel insurance. I paid in cash.

Not the best hospital stay she’s ever going to enjoy, but hey, TIT..!

3 million insurance my f00kin a**e.

[MadMac]

Hope your mom is well, must have been some experience.

Every hospital has to treat you for emergency within the first 24h regardless of insurance or not. That's the law.

[anto]

Hope your mom is well, must have been some experience.

Every hospital has to treat you for emergency within the first 24h regardless of insurance or not. That's the law.

Government hospitals probably yes ,but private hospitals ? ..i very much doubt it .

[MadMac]

Every hospital, they have to treat you. Does not mean it's for free. But you do not need to put an insurance card on the table.

Edited April 8, 2016 by MadMac