The Fine Art of Clearing a Five and a Half Year Overstay

[Fabricus]

Recently I've read several stories on this forum about longterm overstays. I'm not sure if I believe all of them. Key details appear to be missing. The accounts -- as told here on TV -- generally don't reconcile with my own experience.

UbonJoe

I can prove what I'm about to write. If you'd like a copy of the overstay stamp from Hat Yai airport (dated March 18; slightly less than 2000 days), please PM me. I'll send it on the condition you treat it as private.

Pattani to Hat Yai

My GF and I live in Pattani. Her Thai friend in Phatalung has a farang BF (I won't specify his nationality) who until recently had been on overstay since October 2010. The farang's GF drove him to Pattani on the morning of March 18; at 7.40am we took a van to Hat Yai airport. We arrived at about 9.00am and waited for the 12H55 flight to KL.

Hat Yai Airport

The farang was asked to take a seat near the check-out desks and discuss his overstay with a couple of women. The conversation was bizarre:

Immigration girl: So why do you have this long overstay?

Farang: I'm very sorry. I won't do it again. I have the 20K Baht.

Immigration girl: Yes, but it is so long.

Farang: I know. I'm very sorry. I want to pay the fine.

Immigration girl: So why do you want to clear the overstay?

Farang: Because of the new rules. I need to clear it before March 20.

Immigration girl: And how do you know about the new rules?

Farang: I read it on the internet.

Immigration girl: Yes, we know. Foreigners read too much on the internet. We know about this. But you must not read the internet. You must talk to us. We can help. This is very serious.

Farang: I know. I'm very sorry. I want to pay the 20K Baht.

Immigration girl: But why do you want to clear the overstay? Why only now? How do we know you are serious?

Farang: I have to clear it now because after March 20 it will be too late.

Immigration girl: Yes, so you only want to clear the overstay because of the new rule. If we do not have the new rule you will not clear it. I think you are not serious about clearing your overstay.

Farang: I'm very serious. I want to pay the 20K Baht.

Immigration girl: But you are not serious. If you were serious you would clear it without the new rule.

Farang: I'm very sorry.

Immigration girl: You keep saying you're sorry, but I think you're not. How can I know if you are serious? I think you read too much on the internet.

Farang: I'm very sorry. I won't do it again.

They then asked the guy to sign a form accepting he would be blacklisted from the country. This worried me, but I noticed the form was dated 2014 and appeared to have no bearing on current or pending legislation. The farang signed it but didn't enter the dates. The women didn't countersign it, nor did they seem to care about it. I think they were just following protocol.

KL to Penang

We got to KL just after 3pm and on arrival at the city's central station learned we'd missed the train up to Penang. We walked out of station and found a nice hotel at Little India. The food was great!

We got to Butterworth very late on Saturday (March 19) and took the ferry to Penang. We checked in to a very pleasant Indian hotel in Chulia Street. This is where many of the city's tour operators and visa agents are located. On Sunday I wandered off by myself and checked out Fort Cornwallis and the botanical gardens.

Penang

Things got tricky on Monday morning (March 21). By now Thailand's new overstay rules were in place and we weren't certain the Thai consulate would issue a tourist visa. We went to a visa agency and explained the situation. They were shocked by the duration of the overstay and said we'd need to pay extra to guarantee a visa. They quoted us 3500 Baht.

We went to another agency in the same street and were quoted a whopping 890 Ringit. This puzzled me at first, but I worked out what was going on. The second agency had almost certainly phoned the first and doubled the figure of 3500 Baht. They had converted this amount (7000 Baht) into Malaysian Ringit at a rate of 10 to 1, and then added the visa fee (150 Ringit) and agency costs (40 Ringit).

At this point I realized there was probably no need to pay extra for the visa. I figured these George Town agents have a kind of racket going on and are used to adding extra charges as and when they can. We went to a third agency and paid 150 Ringit for the visa and 40 Ringit in agency fees. The guy at the desk (a very friendly Muslim) said the visa was "100% guaranteed" and we'd get it the following day at about 2.30pm. And that's exactly what happened.

Penang to Thailand

Most tourists and visa runners take the 3pm van from George Town to Pedang Besar and cross into Sadao. We did things differently: we walked to the jetty, took the ferry back to Butterworth and headed for a border which for a number of reasons I won't name. We checked out of Malaysia at about 9pm and entered no man's land.

Disaster

As soon as we'd cleared Malaysian immigration I told the farang to put something in his passport. It wasn't a 100 Baht note, nor was it 500 Baht. Let's just call it a piece of paper. By now it was very dark and out of nowhere a Malaysian policeman appeared. He asked to see our passports. He handed mine back promptly but took great exception to the farang's. He pulled out the "piece of paper" and held it aloft, saying we had attempted to bribe a Malaysian official and committed a very serious offence. For a while I was fairly scared and figured he might take us back to Malaysia. Eventually he calmed down and told us to go to Thailand.

Thailand

There's not much more to say. I noticed a look of surprise when the Thai immigration guy saw the "piece of paper" in the farang's passport. He stamped him in quickly and wished us bon voyage. It was too late by then to get back to Pattani / Phattalung, so we found a cheap resort-style place and shared a bottle of vodka I'd bought in George Town. The following day we went our separate ways.

====

As stated at the beginning, I would be happy to prove this story to UbonJoe.

[Eclipse]

[bkkcanuck8]

And how would you prove this fairytale?

[Kopitiam]

What is the point of writing this "normal" clearing of overstay before the 20 March deadline?

[Rayk]

Where is the fine art you discussed?

Was it the I'm sorry, I'm sorry of the overstayer, or the bribing of an immigration official, neither of which i would consider a fine art, especially prior to March 20th. Had this occured post March 20th than it would of been a more interesting read.

To me, it's just as Kopitiam has stated clearing a normal overstay.

But still nice to know your friend has taken responsibility and cleared his overstay.

[Sheryl]

It does not read to me as at all inconsistent with what we have heard from others.

The difference in your friend's case is that he did not handle the questioning at all well. If you read other accounts, these people actually explained (or at least gave an explanation) of what they had been doing in Thailand and why they overstayed. It is not an idle question, they really do want to know and how they respond will be affected by what they think of the proffered reason.

Also IMO not a good idea to keep mentioning the 20,000 baht fine, really does make it sound like taking overstay lightly as a matter to just pay to resolve.

I think the IO was annoyed by that attitude as well as lack of reason given (which may have seemed rather brash). Purpose of the paper he had to sign was to give him a scare as a deterrent, since it was not yet March 20 so couldn't do more than that. But a similar performance in future IMO has an excellent chance of earning a ban...whereas from what we so far hear, some people at least have so far been able to avoid one with the right appearance, behavior etc.

In any dealing with Thai officialdom - but most especially one in which you have made a transgression or are seeking special; dispensation - should act meek and deferential, and a bit naive.Wide-eyed, respectful. Don't talk too much or try to direct the conversation, but do respond to any questions asked.

May be useful to remember that the underlying reason for the new regs is to provide a means of ridding the country of "undersirables". So important to be clearly seen as not one of those, that part was probably evident enough to the IO, but you also don't want to p^&* them off especially now that they have it in their power to administer bans.

[NanLaew]

No idea why they wandered through 'no mans land' in the dark unless it was to avoid any Sadao drama or why the OP suggested the other guy put money in his passport but I guess he's back for another +5 years or so.

[SoiBiker]

I think they just got the train to Padang Besar, but for some reason want to be mysterious about it.

[james.d]

Why all the cloak and dagger.."a piece of paper - headed for a border which for a number of reasons I won't name....

The words " We checked out of Malaysia at about 9pm and entered no man's land" sound like a Ryan SAS novel.

Goodness, you were not invading Thailand, just trying to return.

[Hedghog]

Lacks suspense.

Must try harder.

[balo]

Just another story, what is your point really

[darrendsd]

A Overstay was cleared. not much difference to the numerous stories about the same topic that have been posted on here numerous times over the years, the only difference is that you are trying to add drama where there really isn't any

Please don't consider a career change to a suspense writer will you?

[2fishin2]

YOU PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM NOT THE SOLUTION! And you joke about bribing officials? What the H double L is wrong with you people? Id much rather hear how you got caught and had to spend time in the monkey house. SMDH

[BritTim]

I find no reason to disbelieve the OP's story. Since you were not trying to enter through Sadao, assuming a bribe would be helpful was misguided. Other than that, Sheryl has provided good observations.

[Fabricus]

It does not read to me as at all inconsistent with what we have heard from others.

The difference in your friend's case is that he did not handle the questioning at all well. If you read other accounts, these people actually explained (or at least gave an explanation) of what they had been doing in Thailand and why they overstayed. It is not an idle question, they really do want to know and how they respond will be affected by what they think of the proffered reason.

Also IMO not a good idea to keep mentioning the 20,000 baht fine, really does make it sound like taking overstay lightly as a matter to just pay to resolve.

I discussed this with my GF, the farang's GF in Phattalung and other Thais in Pattani. We really weren't sure what the guy should say to the IOs at Hat Yai airport.

We figured you could perhaps justify an overstay of a week or possibly even a month, but not five and half years.

Ultimately the consensus among Thais was to say sorry and avoid long-winded excuses. They also suggested being very upfront about the 20K fine.

My overall feeling was that the Hat Yai IOs wanted to help the guy resolve his problem and remain in Thailand legally. I thought they were firm but helpful. They certainly weren't vindictive or unpleasant.

[Myran]

Sorry, but what an utterly ridiculous attempt to create drama over something as common as paying for your overstay before the 20th. I do, however, love your "I can prove that this extremely common and not out-of-the-ordinary occurrence actually did happen" – this is like me making a topic and offering evidence of my purchase of milk at 7-Eleven.

"I slipped the check-out girl a small piece of paper – it had the number '100' written on it, let's just leave it at that. She scrutinized it intently and gave me a weird look out of the corner of her eye. After what seemed like an eternity she hammered a few strokes on the cash register keyboard, which popped open with a slight ringing sound. I breathed a sigh of relief as I could finally see the end of my journey. She gave me back some pieces of paper and a few round objects made of metal. The milk was already in a bag and ready to go. But something was wrong; something was... different. I carefully peaked inside the bag and saw what appeared to be a circular tube made of plastic. The device confused and frightened me, as I had not seen it before. I snatched the bag from the counter and quickly made my way home to my condo. I was finally safe... or so I thought."

[bkkcanuck8]

The repeating of I will pay the 20K came across as evasive when asked questions - and just for that alone if I were the immigration officer.... I would have sent the person back.

A person evading questions when asked by immigration is considered a warning sign.

[thaibreaker]

"Recently I've read several stories on this forum about longterm overstays. I'm not sure if I believe all of them. Key details appear to be missing. The accounts -- as told here on TV -- generally don't reconcile with my own experience."

How on earth does this story not reconcile with others??

Nothing new here, not one thing (except the bribe, which is not necessary btw).

Good the overstay was cleared, but not necessary to make this drama out of something many others did before. In fact, I thought the overstayer had bad answers to the IO`s question, and am not surprised by her answers.

Nothing new, but glad it went well.

[Fabricus]

Sorry, but what an utterly ridiculous attempt to create drama over something as common as paying for your overstay before the 20th.

Childish, but not unexpected.

The drama was real. Very real.

When I met the guy on the morning of March 18 he told me he'd been having nightmares for the previous three days. He was terrified of going to the airport. He needed three beers at the airport to calm his nerves.

We intended to go to the Thai consulate in Penang on the Monday. He couldn't do it. He said he was having a panic attack. This was why we used an agent.

Getting back in to Thailand was always going to be the hard part. Even though we arrived at Thai immigration after 9pm, the guy was dripping with sweat. I could see his hand shaking as he filled in the TM30.

===

To suggest -- as you've done -- that clearing a five and a half year overstay is a common occurrence is pure idiocy and shows your pygmified knowledge of these things. The women at Hat Yai airport said it was longest overstay they'd ever seen.

[BritTim]

I would be interested in one detail: which agents tried to rip you off in Penang?

[Sheryl]

I discussed this with my GF, the farang's GF in Phattalung and other Thais in Pattani. We really weren't sure what the guy should say to the IOs at Hat Yai airport.

We figured you could perhaps justify an overstay of a week or possibly even a month, but not five and half years.

Ultimately the consensus among Thais was to say sorry and avoid long-winded excuses. They also suggested being very upfront about the 20K fine.

Thais are the best source of information about many aspects of life in Thailand, but never regarding immigration matters. They have zero reason to ever deal with immigration depts or officers and really know nothing at all about it, why would they?. When foreign friends ask for my advice on matters of US immigration, I can be of zero help since as a citizen I never have anything to do with it.

Immigration offices/officers are places where Thai officialdom daily interacts with people from all the countries in the world, and only with such people, and in the context of Thailand's sometimes byzantine immigration rules and policies. . As such they have their own special dynamic entirely different from other government offices. In particular, the attitude towards foreigners differs.

They asked for a reason, as they were bound to do, and a reason needed to be supplied. I once overstayed, many many years ago, , and when asked why told them that I had gotten so used to life in Thailand and so comfortable here that I forgot I was even a foreigner and needed a Visa. (Which was in fact the literal truth.)

Any number of reasons could be offered, they know you may not be telling the whole story (e.g. you are not going to say if you were working illegally here) but they want to see what you come up with and get a sense of you. Evading their questions is absolutely the worst thing to do. Second worse being to constantly bring up the 20K fine. Sounds calculated and also like a conscious decision was made to pay 20K in order to overstay.

It also misses a chance to score some points...if the IO thinks you may not see the fine coming they will be concerned you will react negatively (as no doubt some do) or worse yet not enough money on you (ditto). So saying nothing until they tell you and then meekly paying without complaint wins you some positive points in their eyes. But not when you lead off with "I know the rules, let me just pay the 20K" sort of talk.

[thaibreaker]

Sorry, but what an utterly ridiculous attempt to create drama over something as common as paying for your overstay before the 20th.

Childish, but not unexpected.

The drama was real. Very real.

When I met the guy on the morning of March 18 he told me he'd been having nightmares for the previous three days. He was terrified of going to the airport. He needed three beers at the airport to calm his nerves.

We intended to go to the Thai consulate in Penang on the Monday. He couldn't do it. He said he was having a panic attack. This was why we used an agent.

Getting back in to Thailand was always going to be the hard part. Even though we arrived at Thai immigration after 9pm, the guy was dripping with sweat. I could see his hand shaking as he filled in the TM30.

===

To suggest -- as you've done -- that clearing a five and a half year overstay is a common occurrence is pure idiocy and shows your pygmified knowledge of these things. The women at Hat Yai airport said it was longest overstay they'd ever seen.

Sorry, but in fact there was no drama here. He cleared the overstay before the 20th, and there was no doubt he would be let in when he wasn`t banned. He had a visa, so there was no problem. Many have done it before this bloke, even with longer overstay.

Whether the overstay was 1, 5 or 10 years is in fact irrelevant. They all went through the same, and were treated the same, before the 20th.

[BritTim]

Sorry, but what an utterly ridiculous attempt to create drama over something as common as paying for your overstay before the 20th.

Childish, but not unexpected.

The drama was real. Very real.

When I met the guy on the morning of March 18 he told me he'd been having nightmares for the previous three days. He was terrified of going to the airport. He needed three beers at the airport to calm his nerves.

We intended to go to the Thai consulate in Penang on the Monday. He couldn't do it. He said he was having a panic attack. This was why we used an agent.

Getting back in to Thailand was always going to be the hard part. Even though we arrived at Thai immigration after 9pm, the guy was dripping with sweat. I could see his hand shaking as he filled in the TM30.

===

To suggest -- as you've done -- that clearing a five and a half year overstay is a common occurrence is pure idiocy and shows your pygmified knowledge of these things. The women at Hat Yai airport said it was longest overstay they'd ever seen.

Wow, three beers just before talking to immigration about the overstay! Do you know how bad an idea that was? The immigration officials were probably wondering if he is a mental wreck with a drinking problem (as am I). That, by the way, would be a legitimate reason to blacklist him.

[johnatong]

Sorry, but what an utterly ridiculous attempt to create drama over something as common as paying for your overstay before the 20th.

Childish, but not unexpected.

The drama was real. Very real.

When I met the guy on the morning of March 18 he told me he'd been having nightmares for the previous three days. He was terrified of going to the airport. He needed three beers at the airport to calm his nerves.

We intended to go to the Thai consulate in Penang on the Monday. He couldn't do it. He said he was having a panic attack. This was why we used an agent.

Getting back in to Thailand was always going to be the hard part. Even though we arrived at Thai immigration after 9pm, the guy was dripping with sweat. I could see his hand shaking as he filled in the TM30.

===

To suggest -- as you've done -- that clearing a five and a half year overstay is a common occurrence is pure idiocy and shows your pygmified knowledge of these things. The women at Hat Yai airport said it was longest overstay they'd ever seen.

Where was the TM30 filled out ?

Was this form required by the airport Immigration Officers ?

[Fabricus]

I discussed this with my GF, the farang's GF in Phattalung and other Thais in Pattani. We really weren't sure what the guy should say to the IOs at Hat Yai airport.

We figured you could perhaps justify an overstay of a week or possibly even a month, but not five and half years.

Ultimately the consensus among Thais was to say sorry and avoid long-winded excuses. They also suggested being very upfront about the 20K fine.

Thais are the best source of information about many aspects of life in Thailand, but never regarding immigration matters. They have zero reason to ever deal with immigration depts or officers and really know nothing at all about it, why would they?. When foreign friends ask for my advice on matters of US immigration, I can be of zero help since as a citizen I never have anything to do with it.

Immigration offices/officers are places where Thai officialdom daily interacts with people from all the countries in the world, and only with such people, and in the context of Thailand's sometimes byzantine immigration rules and policies. . As such they have their own special dynamic entirely different from other government offices. In particular, the attitude towards foreigners differs.

They asked for a reason, as they were bound to do, and a reason needed to be supplied. I once overstayed, many many years ago, , and when asked why told them that I had gotten so used to life in Thailand and so comfortable here that I forgot I was even a foreigner and needed a Visa. (Which was in fact the literal truth.)

Any number of reasons could be offered, they know you may not be telling the whole story (e.g. you are not going to say if you were working illegally here) but they want to see what you come up with and get a sense of you. Evading their questions is absolutely the worst thing to do. Second worse being to constantly bring up the 20K fine. Sounds calculated and also like a conscious decision was made to pay 20K in order to overstay.

It also misses a chance to score some points...if the IO thinks you may not see the fine coming they will be concerned you will react negatively (as no doubt some do) or worse yet not enough money on you (ditto). So saying nothing until they tell you and then meekly paying without complaint wins you some positive points in their eyes. But not when you lead off with "I know the rules, let me just pay the 20K" sort of talk.

Sheryl, thanks for the feedback.

My thoughts are the opposite of yours.

I told the guy to put about 50K in his pocket and make a big show of it when counting out the 20K. I figured the IOs would at least see he's not destitute.

The guy's overstay wasn't calculated. He told me that when it reached a month or so he became too scared to deal with it. He said he just tried to forget it.

One thing I learned from this little episode is that longterm overstayers aren't bums, deadbeats or criminals, but normal people who experience financial or personal troubles and then, through fear, remain on overstay. Based on what I saw, they suffer enormous stress. The sense of relief on the guy's face when we got back into Thailand was tangible.

[johnatong]

I discussed this with my GF, the farang's GF in Phattalung and other Thais in Pattani. We really weren't sure what the guy should say to the IOs at Hat Yai airport.

We figured you could perhaps justify an overstay of a week or possibly even a month, but not five and half years.

Ultimately the consensus among Thais was to say sorry and avoid long-winded excuses. They also suggested being very upfront about the 20K fine.

Thais are the best source of information about many aspects of life in Thailand, but never regarding immigration matters. They have zero reason to ever deal with immigration depts or officers and really know nothing at all about it, why would they?. When foreign friends ask for my advice on matters of US immigration, I can be of zero help since as a citizen I never have anything to do with it.

Immigration offices/officers are places where Thai officialdom daily interacts with people from all the countries in the world, and only with such people, and in the context of Thailand's sometimes byzantine immigration rules and policies. . As such they have their own special dynamic entirely different from other government offices. In particular, the attitude towards foreigners differs.

They asked for a reason, as they were bound to do, and a reason needed to be supplied. I once overstayed, many many years ago, , and when asked why told them that I had gotten so used to life in Thailand and so comfortable here that I forgot I was even a foreigner and needed a Visa. (Which was in fact the literal truth.)

Any number of reasons could be offered, they know you may not be telling the whole story (e.g. you are not going to say if you were working illegally here) but they want to see what you come up with and get a sense of you. Evading their questions is absolutely the worst thing to do. Second worse being to constantly bring up the 20K fine. Sounds calculated and also like a conscious decision was made to pay 20K in order to overstay.

It also misses a chance to score some points...if the IO thinks you may not see the fine coming they will be concerned you will react negatively (as no doubt some do) or worse yet not enough money on you (ditto). So saying nothing until they tell you and then meekly paying without complaint wins you some positive points in their eyes. But not when you lead off with "I know the rules, let me just pay the 20K" sort of talk.

Sheryl, thanks for the feedback.

My thoughts are the opposite of yours.

I told the guy to put about 50K in his pocket and make a big show of it when counting out the 20K. I figured the IOs would at least see he's not destitute.

The guy's overstay wasn't calculated. He told me that when it reached a month or so he became too scared to deal with it. He said he just tried to forget it.

One thing I learned from this little episode is that longterm overstayers aren't bums, deadbeats or criminals, but normal people who experience financial or personal troubles and then, through fear, remain on overstay. Based on what I saw, they suffer enormous stress. The sense of relief on the guy's face when we got back into Thailand was tangible.

Maybe immigration officers are not so "simple" as you believe. A "show" of wealth could prompt a question about where the money came from .

Can you please answer my earlier question about the TM30 form ?

[TerryLH]

"I could see his hand shaking as he filled in the TM30."

Why would he do that? Is that something new?

[thaiduncankk]

Riveting stuff (NOT !)

[Fabricus]

I would be interested in one detail: which agents tried to rip you off in Penang?

Can't remember the names, but the first one is on the right, just past 7-11, as you walk along Chulia Street AWAY from the ferry port. The agency had four computer terminals and internet access. They arranged visas (150 Ringit for a tourist visa + 40 Ringit agency fee) and operated a van service to Pedang Besar / Sadao.

The second agency was on the other side of the road, slightly further away from the ferry port. There are several cheap guesthouses in this area, along with a few bars.

I wouldn't say these agencies tried to rip us off. I think they just saw an opportunity and took it. Had we not mentioned the overstay I'm sure they wouldn't have attempted to charge extra.

[johnatong]

"I could see his hand shaking as he filled in the TM30."

Why would he do that? Is that something new?

Those suffering from DT's often have shaky hands until steadied by a large dose of alcohol.