When is an expat not an expat?

[cyberfarang]

An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship.

But we are not immigrants in Thailand. An immigrant is someone who lives and is given citizenship in another country. We are not citizens of Thailand and can only say we moved here and not immigrated here. This means that Gerry is incorrect, he is still a resident Farlang and not an expat.

[NanLaew]

An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship.

But we are not immigrants in Thailand. An immigrant is someone who lives and is given citizenship in another country. We are not citizens of Thailand and can only say we moved here and not immigrated here. This means that Gerry is incorrect, he is still a resident Farlang and not an expat.

Good grief.... here we go again.

Ex = outside.

Patria = homeland.

It has bugger all to do with where the person chooses to live, be it temporary, permanent or anything temporally related. Immigration status in one's chosen domicile is similarly totally irrelevant.

It has everything to do with where the person chooses NOT to live, ie not living in their homeland. Once again, immigration status in one's chosen domicile is totally irrelevant.

End of.

[Doc46]

? Who cares,you're just a Westerner living in Thailand When you're not at Home.

[Agent Sumo]

No doubt this will deteriorate into a slanging match with the more self-important posters inflating their chests and proudly proclaiming the importance of their "massive" monthly income to the Thai economy, particularly at its point of entry in the Big C foodhall.

This "wall of money", they'll reason, should entitle them to a lifetime visa and the right to buy a hectare of land anywhere in the kingdom.

[emilymat]

Who cares, it is all in the mind, usually other people`s minds.

Correct. However, I nearly came to blows with a newbie last year when I told him he was an alien. He thought I was taking the p.ss.

[klauskunkel]

You have no control over who categorizes you and how you are categorized, if you interact with people, that's what happens...

But guess what, you are still a person, so don't lose sleep/face/time about it.

[NanLaew]

No doubt this will deteriorate into a slanging match with the more self-important posters inflating their chests and proudly proclaiming the importance of their "massive" monthly income to the Thai economy, particularly at its point of entry in the Big C foodhall.

This "wall of money", they'll reason, should entitle them to a lifetime visa and the right to buy a hectare of land anywhere in the kingdom.

Only a hectare?

[NanLaew]

The whole premise of the debate is flawed when the article from the WSJ that is quoted in the OP asserts the following.

... A recent blog in none other than The Wall Street Journal spoke of the startling differences in the way the term is used in describing people of white skin colour and people with darker skin…..suddenly this was starting to be closer to the farang debate…

Speaking of the definition of an expat, the article says: “You should expect that any person going to work outside of his or her country for a period of time would be an expat, regardless of his skin colour or country. But that is not the case in reality; expat is a term reserved exclusively for western white people going to work abroad.”

Everybody else is an immigrant!

The writer, an African in referring to Hong Kong continued: “Some arrivals are described as expats; others as immigrants; and some simply as migrants. It depends on social class, country of origin and economic status. ...

If I were one of the less eloquent members here, this is where I would noisily proclaim BS! Who in Hong Kong is describing all these darker-hued expats in such derogatory terms? If someone wants to increase the paltry revenue of their blog by making up stories or suddenly chose to bestow the critically flawed concept of race, social and immigration status on the simple, age old definition of the word 'expat', then knock yourselves out. It's a facile as the 'farang argument' that is lamely introduced to instigate a racist edge to the whole puerile non-debate. One can be an expat, a migrant, an immigrant and latterly an economic refugee, white as the driven snow or black as the inside of a cow all at the same time but the term 'expat' in itself does not and never will confer any racial, social or immigration status except in the very, very small minded.

I am an expat and have been since I graduated. However, I much prefer the International Gypsy moniker my lawyer buddy bestowed on me while I lived in the US and just like my current second Thai domicile, worked everywhere else but.

[kinmaew]

You can mark my words with this not being pretentious but I believe it to be the absolute truth.

When will Thais stop referring to other people as "Farang"?

It will only be once they have a full democracy (When hell freezes over in Thailands case because the people have no guts and are passive and mostly lazy) because only when you have that, you let all sorts of people in to live and work and cultures and customs mix just like it is in "Farang countries" for better or worse.

Sending people to prison for 15 years for merely expressing an opinion is not the same country that will welcome people with full hearts.

[Red13]

Expat? Nope, just an immigrant.

I'd rather not afford myself with some ridiculous privilege when millions are labelled as merely immigrant scum.

Regardless of personal wealth or reasons for moving country, I'm an immigrant.

[SoiBiker]

You don't get to choose whether you're an expat or not.

[chicowoodduck]

The only true expat I know of is the former wife, but I just shorten it to ex......Amen!?

[dunque]

If I go back to my country one day, I guess I will be called an ex-immigrant

A repatriate maybe?

[soc]

Enjoying the life as a WHITE SUPREMACIST ADVANTAGES, you are a real piece of work. I'VE been in 48 countries and taught in several countries training military

and civilians including the MIDDLE EAST. And to make such a remark, don't every meet me little Englishman.

Ohhh! Cranky……

[HerbalEd]

I guess dictionaries are going out of fashion.

I use my OSX Dictionary almost every day ... from one to five or six times per day. And when I'm writing an article I may use it even more. And with some words I'll go to dictionary.com and look the word up in ten to twenty different dictionaries. Unlike the misassumption by many that computers and the internet lessen a person's vocabulary, I've had the exact opposite experience.

[BritManToo]

An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship."

Clearly incorrect, you can't be a 'temporary immigrant', it's something you either are or you aren't.

[SoiBiker]

Just out of interest, I thought I'd see what the OSX dictionary has to say on the matter.

expat |eksˈpat|

noun& adjective informal

short for expatriate

expatriate

noun |eksˈpātrēit|

a person who lives outside their native country: American expatriates in London.

• archaic a person exiled from their native country.

adjective |eksˈpātrēit| [ attrib. ]

(of a person) living outside their native country: expatriate writers and artists.

• archaic expelled from one's native country.

verb |eksˈpātrēˌāt| [ no obj. ]

settle oneself abroad: candidates should be willing to expatriate.

DERIVATIVES

expatriation |eksˌpātrēˈāSHən| noun

ORIGIN mid 18th cent. (as a verb): from medieval Latin expatriat- ‘gone out from one's country,’ from the verb expatriare, from ex- ‘out’ + patria ‘native country.’

[chrisinth]

Looking at the definition the OP uses:

"An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship"

How therefore can anyone working here on a non-immigrant B or someone living here on a non-immigrant O for the reason of marriage/retirement/supporting a child/etc be classed as an expat?

I've never seen any urgency or need to clasify myself other than a visitor to the Kingdom who happens to be married to one of the citizens and is at present working here.

IMHO, defining yourself for whatever reason as an expat doesn't make you a better person.................

[ericthai]

Expats typically still have their roots in their home country and intend to return one day. Immigrants have made the move permanently, whether having residency or a long term visa. Technically, many of us are probably stateless!

Sorry but I none of us are stateless, stateless means you have no citizenship in any country, all of us still have a home country and a passport from that country. If you have no passport, no ID and not able to get an passport or ID card then you are stateless.

[overherebc]

An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship.

But we are not immigrants in Thailand. An immigrant is someone who lives and is given citizenship in another country. We are not citizens of Thailand and can only say we moved here and not immigrated here. This means that Gerry is incorrect, he is still a resident Farlang and not an expat.

What the hell is a FaRlang ?

[NanLaew]

An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship."

Clearly incorrect, you can't be a 'temporary immigrant', it's something you either are or you aren't.

The OP's claimed google definition incorrectly places the emphasis on "where you are" and not "where you are from" and this seems to be fueling the confusion. Once again, the term expat is not about the foreign country that one is living in or anything that relates to that foreign domicile. Expat relates only to the country of your birth and/or nationality that you are either temporarily or permanently removed from.

Try this. I am British by birth thus "I am a British expat". I am married and (mostly) retired in Thailand with Thai Non-Immigrant status but all that does is expand the first statement as follows, "I am a British expat residing in Thailand." My Thai immigration status, social standing, race, height and haircut have absolutely no impact on the fact that "I am a British expat living in Thailand." When I go off to work in (say) Vietnam, my expat status becomes "I am a British expat working in Vietnam."

If you are not in the land of your birth and/or nationality, you are an expat.

[ResandePohm]

For me an Expat is someone who has fully integrated into the society he/she has chosen to live in and accepts all its differences and peculiarities without comment or denigration and feels no need to criticise or Thaibash. They will participate in the cultural life and enjoy it.They will learn or at least try to learn the language and try to be a useful member of the local society.

Those that that continually Thaibash, usually from a barstool, do not integrate into the local society and do nothing to contribute to this country other than spend a few quid on beer and prostitutes are nothing but tourists no matter how long they have been here.

It has been my experience that after a while living in another country there comes a time when you have to decide: accept the ways of that country if you wish to stay or leave and find a place more in line with your life views. Unfortunately TV seems to be dominated by the latter who do not leave and go elsewhere but sit here and continually criticise everything and anything. Shame on them.

[SoiBiker]

For me an Expat is someone who has fully integrated into the society he/she has chosen to live in and accepts all its differences and peculiarities without comment or denigration and feels no need to criticise or Thaibash. They will participate in the cultural life and enjoy it.They will learn or at least try to learn the language and try to be a useful member of the local society.

Those that that continually Thaibash, usually from a barstool, do not integrate into the local society and do nothing to contribute to this country other than spend a few quid on beer and prostitutes are nothing but tourists no matter how long they have been here.

It has been my experience that after a while living in another country there comes a time when you have to decide: accept the ways of that country if you wish to stay or leave and find a place more in line with your life views. Unfortunately TV seems to be dominated by the latter who do not leave and go elsewhere but sit here and continually criticise everything and anything. Shame on them.

To be fair, moaners tend to be moaners, wherever they end up.

It is a shame so many of them seem to end up here, but there you go.

[ThaiKneeTim]

I've given up reading the comments because so many are frustratingly ignoring the dictionary definition in favour of their own notion of the term.

If you're out of (ex) your own country, live in one other and work in another, you are therefore an expat in two countries. Temporary or permanent! When/if you return to your country of origin you cease to be expatriate.

The funniest thing I've seen in recent monthes was a UKIP supporter complaining about immigrants.... from his home in Spain. When it was pointed out that he was an immigrant he replied indignantly "no I'm not, I'm an expat".

Get over yourselves and wear your expat/farang/immigrant badge with pride!

Remember, a name is only offensive if you take offence, own the name and turn it back on those who try to p1ss you off with it.

[NanLaew]

For me an Expat is someone who has fully integrated into the society he/she has chosen to live in and accepts all its differences and peculiarities without comment or denigration and feels no need to criticise or Thaibash. They will participate in the cultural life and enjoy it.They will learn or at least try to learn the language and try to be a useful member of the local society.

Those that that continually Thaibash, usually from a barstool, do not integrate into the local society and do nothing to contribute to this country other than spend a few quid on beer and prostitutes are nothing but tourists no matter how long they have been here.

It has been my experience that after a while living in another country there comes a time when you have to decide: accept the ways of that country if you wish to stay or leave and find a place more in line with your life views. Unfortunately TV seems to be dominated by the latter who do not leave and go elsewhere but sit here and continually criticise everything and anything. Shame on them.

To be fair, moaners tend to be moaners, wherever they end up.

It is a shame so many of them seem to end up here, but there you go.

Yup, being an expat and moaning are not mutually exclusive.