SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[Johnyo]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.,nothing to do with money.They are just despicable parasites who don't integrate and the majority have no money. The only retired expats that should be allowed to live in Spain should at least speak our language and have more cash than the meager pension the majority have to spend.

1. No I am English. 2. I live among many poor & rich people in our village. 3. Well England is on an island. 4. Well get your Spain out of the EU then. 5. Only know 2 English people that live in Lanzarote retired but not poor and they said nearly everyone speaks English.

Next.

Lanzarote!! Lol I rest my case

[Kwasaki]

Lanzarote!! Lol I rest my case

Oh come on whats wrong with Lanzarote, never been there.

[dick dasterdly]

Lanzarote!! Lol I rest my case

Oh come on whats wrong with Lanzarote, never been there.

I have, but only for a 7 day holiday - and I stayed with a brother and his wife, so never saw the seedy side - only the amazing side.

Entirely off topic, but have to say that the (small) 2 storied house (each storey small) they were living in was the most beautifully designed place I've ever seen! A roof that opened and a centre 'well' with a palm growing through the house. The lower level was below ground, keeping the bedrooms far cooler than the ambient temperature. It was decades ago, but I still remember it well and wonder why the design isn't used frequently in hot countries?

Edit - and putting this in 'words' has made me realise that the house/apartment was on top of a 'hill', so flooding wasn't a problem - whereas normally it would be a problem .

Edited May 11, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[SussexExpat]

Absolutely disgusting that Farage isn't allowed to speak at the most important TV debate two days before the vote. Yet more proof that this referendum is being rigged.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/668983/Farage-fury-BBC-bosses-freeze-him-out-televised-Brexit-debate

you missed out "allegedly" - the story comes from Farage.

Well spotted. Who do you expect the story to come from? Camoron?

Most news stories emanate from news agencies - the first anyone heard of this one was when it came from the offices of UKIP.

Parties release policy statements etc but seldom actually start a story - the papers then decide what they want to carry.....if you look at which papers are carrying it first then you get a further impression of what is going on.

the BBC actually has pretty open rules on who is invited to political debates and they relate to the size of the party etc etc....as yet I haven't read any other stories about this other than the one released by UKIP.

You really have got your head in the sand if you think the BBC is not biased.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/669085/EU-Brexit-BBC-bias-Anti-EU

[Johnyo]

Lanzarote!! Lol I rest my case

Oh come on whats wrong with Lanzarote, never been there.

I have, but only for a 7 day holiday - and I stayed with a brother and his wife, so never saw the seedy side - only the amazing side.

Entirely off topic, but have to say that the (small) 2 storied house (each storey small) they were living in was the most beautifully designed place I've ever seen! A roof that opened and a centre 'well' with a palm growing through the house. The lower level was below ground, keeping the bedrooms far cooler than the ambient temperature. It was decades ago, but I still remember it well and wonder why the design isn't used frequently in hot countries?

Edit - and putting this in 'words' has made me realise that the house/apartment was on top of a 'hill', so flooding wasn't a problem - whereas normally it would be a problem .

Great no problem. Welcome

[Grouse]

UK.....Get your borders back, control yourself, tell foreign folk to go back to their country to make their place great, the UK forefathers paid a high price to make a great country, a small island..

You're not the only country that needs to control it's borders. In Spain there is a group of immigrants, around 800,000 of them, they don't speak our language, don't pay taxes, only socialise amongst themselves, use our who can infrastructures and arrived to our country and with next to no money. It's about time we send these foreignrdets tifolk back to their country. Retired Expat Brits out now!!!!

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.,nothing to do with money.They are just despicable parasites who don't integrate and the majority have no money. The only retired expats that should be allowed to live in Spain should at least speak our language and have more cash than the meager pension the majority have to spend.

You only get Brexiteers! Sorry about that....

[Grouse]

I'll with what Winnie said.

If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I'm assuming you don't mean Winnie the Pooh? - it's an unfortunate quote to choose as Churchill was by and large was pro EU.

Winston Churchill said this but it has been taken out of context and joined with other comments artificially by the Brexiteers.

here is the true context.....

"Churchill shouted this remark to the French leader, General Charles de Gaulle, in a raging row on the eve of the Normandy landings in 1944. Churchill had a roller coaster relationship with de Gaulle and wanted to show his loyalty to the US President, Franklin Roosevelt. Subsequently, Churchill also angrily added to de Gaulle: Every time I have to decide between you and Roosevelt, I will always choose Roosevelt. (Later, they made up over dinner and fine wine.)* - Jon Danzig

He also said the following

In 1953 he said...

"Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition "with" but not "of"we are with them, but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire."

Of course now we DONT have empire

In 1948 he said

We cannot aim at anything less than the Union of Europe as a whole, and we look forward with confidence to the day when that Union will be achieved.

a debate in June 1950 in the House of Commons to discuss a united Europe, Churchill said that he could not at present foresee Britain being a member of a Federal Union of Europe. However, Churchill went on to explain that this was primarily because of Britains position, at the centre of the British Empire and Commonwealth, and, our fraternal association with the United States of America. All that was to change during the course of the 1950s and 1960s.

Churchill made his last speech about Europe at Londons Central Hall, Westminster in July 1957; some four months after six founding nations established the European Economic Community by signing The Treaty of Rome (France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg). Churchill welcomed the formation of a common market by the six, provided that the whole of free Europe will have access. Churchill added, we genuinely wish to join.

But Churchill also warned:

If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it and not only in the economic field.* But Churchill also warned:

If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it and not only in the economic field.*

in August 1961, Churchill wrote:

I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...

Excellent informative post. Thank you!

[Grouse]

Lets put the trade argument to bed once and for all.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/uk-trade-deficit-hits-new-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit

It is a plain and simple fact. The EU is shrinking year on year and needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU.

Maybe you can explain to people how UK manufacturing is going to extricate itself from the current EU legislation and continue to trade with the EU or any other major economy.

The transition to new legislation is not going to happen overnight and is going to be expensive, both financially and in terms of jobs but no one wants to talk about that.

UK Manufacturers that are currently trading with the rest of the EU are complying with all EU legislation. Why would that suddenly change because the UK exits the EU ?

What new legislation ? Are you aware of something that I am not ? It is a tad difficult to have a discussion on something, that to date, does not exist.

A large percentage of UK manufactured products are subject to EU directives and subject to certification and product marking under EU legislation. Certification and the authority to mark the product is issued by EU approved entities known as notified bodies. At the moment there is just over 200 such notified bodies in the UK.

Take away the legislation that controls the certification system and indirectly the manufacturing process and you take away the proof of conformity.

The UK would need to introduce similar legislation to establish international conformity and allow product to be traded.

CE Marking is the symbol as shown on the top of this page. The letters "CE" are the abbreviation of French phrase "Conformité Européene" which literally means "European Conformity". The term initially used was "EC Mark" and it was officially replaced by "CE Marking" in the Directive 93/68/EEC in 1993. "CE Marking" is now used in all EU official documents.

*Product Directives contains the "essential requirements" and/or "performance levels" and "Harmonized Standards" to which the products must conform. Harmonized Standards are the technical specifications (European Standards or Harmonization Documents) which are established by several European standards agencies (CEN, CENELEC, etc).

• CE Marking on a product is a manufacturer's declaration that the product complies with the essential requirements of the relevant European health, safety and environmental protection legislation, in practice by many of the so-called Product Directives.*
• CE Marking on a product indicates to governmental officials that the product may be legally placed on the market in their country.
• CE Marking on a product ensures the free movement of the product within the EFTA & European Union (EU) single market (total 28 countries), and
• CE Marking on a product permits the withdrawal of the non-conforming products by customs and enforcement/vigilance authorities.

http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html

This is a REALLY important issue. In my Thai Electrical Engineering businesses it's a big deal that IEC 60364 enables harmonisation of BS7671 and all the European codes. Crucially, this also ensures compliance around the world in many countries.

People generally just don't get it

You want NEC the American code?

Edited May 11, 2016 by Grouse

[dick dasterdly]

So back on topic, I don't trust the Brit govt. as far as I can throw it and have no doubt that they are only interested in their own monetary prospects. Luckily for them, when they are thrown out of govt. they can be elected as a Euro MP which pays one hell of a lot more - whilst also enjoying the generous pay from various Board member positions awarded for their decisions/opinions whilst they were MPs ....

On the other hand, the EU is little better when it comes to empire building/furthering their own, personal interests etc. - although a lot better paid. Some 'interest' is added by the Euro MPs/nations MPs pretending to do the best for their own countries rather than their own interests, although I could be being unfair here as perhaps its just the Brit Euro MPs who are only interested in their own financial gain.

But then again, the EU has forced Britain to accept minimal workers rights - something I have no doubt the Brit govt. would never have allowed, deeming that they are something 'market forces' must determine.

I'm pretty sure that if the UK left (one of the biggest 'givers' to the EU), other countries would likely follow. Consequently, I'm beginning to wonder whether this would force the EU to get rid of the corruption and reduce its costs to those that would be acceptable to member countries that are paying out more than they are gaining?

[Grouse]

Absolutely disgusting that Farage isn't allowed to speak at the most important TV debate two days before the vote. Yet more proof that this referendum is being rigged.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/668983/Farage-fury-BBC-bosses-freeze-him-out-televised-Brexit-debate

you missed out "allegedly" - the story comes from Farage.

Well spotted. Who do you expect the story to come from? Camoron?

Most news stories emanate from news agencies - the first anyone heard of this one was when it came from the offices of UKIP.
Parties release policy statements etc but seldom actually start a story - the papers then decide what they want to carry.....if you look at which papers are carrying it first then you get a further impression of what is going on.

the BBC actually has pretty open rules on who is invited to political debates and they relate to the size of the party etc etc....as yet I haven't read any other stories about this other than the one released by UKIP.

You really have got your head in the sand if you think the BBC is not biased.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/669085/EU-Brexit-BBC-bias-Anti-EU

I'm sure they have lots of silly Brexit people on the other side

[Grouse]

So back on topic, I don't trust the Brit govt. as far as I can throw it and have no doubt that they are only interested in their own monetary prospects. Luckily for them, when they are thrown out of govt. they can be elected as a Euro MP which pays one hell of a lot more - whilst also enjoying the generous pay from various Board member positions awarded for their decisions/opinions whilst they were MPs ....

On the other hand, the EU is little better when it comes to empire building/furthering their own, personal interests etc. - although a lot better paid. Some 'interest' is added by the Euro MPs/nations MPs pretending to do the best for their own countries rather than their own interests, although I could be being unfair here as perhaps its just the Brit Euro MPs who are only interested in their own financial gain.

But then again, the EU has forced Britain to accept minimal workers rights - something I have no doubt the Brit govt. would never have allowed, deeming that they are something 'market forces' must determine.

I'm pretty sure that if the UK left (one of the biggest 'givers' to the EU), other countries would likely follow. Consequently, I'm beginning to wonder whether this would force the EU to get rid of the corruption and reduce its costs to those that would be acceptable to member countries that are paying out more than they are gaining?

We opted out of most of the social chapter and fail to benefit accordingly

We are 9th of 10 net contributors according to GDP per head. Netherlands is number 1

MEP expenses should indeed be clipped and Strasbourg shut down as a ridiculous vanity.

We don't need to leave to FORCE that

[dick dasterdly]

Absolutely disgusting that Farage isn't allowed to speak at the most important TV debate two days before the vote. Yet more proof that this referendum is being rigged.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/668983/Farage-fury-BBC-bosses-freeze-him-out-televised-Brexit-debate

you missed out "allegedly" - the story comes from Farage.

Well spotted. Who do you expect the story to come from? Camoron?

Most news stories emanate from news agencies - the first anyone heard of this one was when it came from the offices of UKIP.

Parties release policy statements etc but seldom actually start a story - the papers then decide what they want to carry.....if you look at which papers are carrying it first then you get a further impression of what is going on.

the BBC actually has pretty open rules on who is invited to political debates and they relate to the size of the party etc etc....as yet I haven't read any other stories about this other than the one released by UKIP.

You really have got your head in the sand if you think the BBC is not biased.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/669085/EU-Brexit-BBC-bias-Anti-EU

I'm sure they have lots of silly Brexit people on the other side

And so we're back to those who think exit, are just silly people .

I hadn't bothered registering to vote as I knew nobody could possibly know the possible outcome of leaving the EU, but I was 'tipped over the edge' by another poster who made yet another 'only stupid people would vote to leave' post - and so registered to vote.

Keep going and continue to convince me that only arrogant idiots (and vested interests) support the 'remain' vote.

[dick dasterdly]

So back on topic, I don't trust the Brit govt. as far as I can throw it and have no doubt that they are only interested in their own monetary prospects. Luckily for them, when they are thrown out of govt. they can be elected as a Euro MP which pays one hell of a lot more - whilst also enjoying the generous pay from various Board member positions awarded for their decisions/opinions whilst they were MPs ....

On the other hand, the EU is little better when it comes to empire building/furthering their own, personal interests etc. - although a lot better paid. Some 'interest' is added by the Euro MPs/nations MPs pretending to do the best for their own countries rather than their own interests, although I could be being unfair here as perhaps its just the Brit Euro MPs who are only interested in their own financial gain.

But then again, the EU has forced Britain to accept minimal workers rights - something I have no doubt the Brit govt. would never have allowed, deeming that they are something 'market forces' must determine.

I'm pretty sure that if the UK left (one of the biggest 'givers' to the EU), other countries would likely follow. Consequently, I'm beginning to wonder whether this would force the EU to get rid of the corruption and reduce its costs to those that would be acceptable to member countries that are paying out more than they are gaining?

We opted out of most of the social chapter and fail to benefit accordingly

We are 9th of 10 net contributors according to GDP per head. Netherlands is number 1

MEP expenses should indeed be clipped and Strasbourg shut down as a ridiculous vanity.

We don't need to leave to FORCE that

And that's where we agree, and why I think the EU may well be better than the Brit govt. when it comes to looking after ordinary people.

Unfortunately I suspect that only the UK leaving will force the EU to get itself in order .

If it could only sort out its problems, I'd be a fervent supporter - but (and again, putting things in words has made me realise this). its impossible to sort out the problems 'cos the variety of countries are in an entirely different position financially and socially.

[Mosha]

The remain people are posting on a Thailand interest forum. A country that will brook no political interference from other ASEAN members. Irony?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

Absolutely disgusting that Farage isn't allowed to speak at the most important TV debate two days before the vote. Yet more proof that this referendum is being rigged.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/668983/Farage-fury-BBC-bosses-freeze-him-out-televised-Brexit-debate

you missed out "allegedly" - the story comes from Farage.

Well spotted. Who do you expect the story to come from? Camoron?

Most news stories emanate from news agencies - the first anyone heard of this one was when it came from the offices of UKIP.
Parties release policy statements etc but seldom actually start a story - the papers then decide what they want to carry.....if you look at which papers are carrying it first then you get a further impression of what is going on.

the BBC actually has pretty open rules on who is invited to political debates and they relate to the size of the party etc etc....as yet I haven't read any other stories about this other than the one released by UKIP.

You really have got your head in the sand if you think the BBC is not biased.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/669085/EU-Brexit-BBC-bias-Anti-EU

I'm sure they have lots of silly Brexit people on the other side

And so we're back to those who think exit, are just silly people .

I hadn't bothered registering to vote as I knew nobody could possibly know the possible outcome of leaving the EU, but I was 'tipped over the edge' by another poster who made yet another 'only stupid people would vote to leave' post - and so registered to vote.

Keep going and continue to convince me that only arrogant idiots (and vested interests) support the 'remain' vote.

I can see I'm going to have to get the irony flag out. The comment was typical of my poor deceased mother

As for arrogant idiot? Moi?

Idiot savant?

[SgtRock]

No names, no packdrills.

It is obvious to anyone who wants to read the thread.

What this thread needs is a good spray of:

Edited May 11, 2016 by SgtRock

[cumgranosalum]

What a load of rubbish, Spain is doing really well in the EU are they, more probable the next Greece.

Are you Spanish? Do you have to live amongst these ignorant poor immigrants? Are the British the only ones who can control borders? We can't decide who can and can't live in our country? We don't want the retired British ex pats.,nothing to do with money.They are just despicable parasites who don't integrate and the majority have no money. The only retired expats that should be allowed to live in Spain should at least speak our language and have more cash than the meager pension the majority have to spend.

1. No I am English. 2. I live among many poor & rich people in our village. 3. Well England is on an island. 4. Well get your Spain out of the EU then. 5. Only know 2 English people that live in Lanzarote retired but not poor and they said nearly everyone speaks English.

Next.

" Well England is on an island. " - and what is the significance of that? I hope you are not going to claim some misinformed historical significance here!

"English people that live in Lanzarote retired but not poor and they said nearly everyone speaks English." - now there's a thought - what conclusions does one draw from that re -the EU?

[cumgranosalum]

So back on topic, I don't trust the Brit govt. as far as I can throw it and have no doubt that they are only interested in their own monetary prospects. Luckily for them, when they are thrown out of govt. they can be elected as a Euro MP which pays one hell of a lot more - whilst also enjoying the generous pay from various Board member positions awarded for their decisions/opinions whilst they were MPs ....

On the other hand, the EU is little better when it comes to empire building/furthering their own, personal interests etc. - although a lot better paid. Some 'interest' is added by the Euro MPs/nations MPs pretending to do the best for their own countries rather than their own interests, although I could be being unfair here as perhaps its just the Brit Euro MPs who are only interested in their own financial gain.

But then again, the EU has forced Britain to accept minimal workers rights - something I have no doubt the Brit govt. would never have allowed, deeming that they are something 'market forces' must determine.

I'm pretty sure that if the UK left (one of the biggest 'givers' to the EU), other countries would likely follow. Consequently, I'm beginning to wonder whether this would force the EU to get rid of the corruption and reduce its costs to those that would be acceptable to member countries that are paying out more than they are gaining?

we can't avoid the EU by leaving it......it's too big too close and we are too involved.

By staying in we can along with the countries change it. It seems to me that Brexiteers grossly underestimate how important the UK is in the EU and how much influence we have. they remind me of a baby chucking its rattle out the pram because it can't get immediately what it incorrectly thinks it wants. An inferiority complex I guess.

[cumgranosalum]

I'll with what Winnie said.

If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I'm assuming you don't mean Winnie the Pooh? - it's an unfortunate quote to choose as Churchill was by and large was pro EU.

Winston Churchill said this but it has been taken out of context and joined with other comments artificially by the Brexiteers.

here is the true context.....

"Churchill shouted this remark to the French leader, General Charles de Gaulle, in a raging row on the eve of the Normandy landings in 1944. Churchill had a roller coaster relationship with de Gaulle and wanted to show his loyalty to the US President, Franklin Roosevelt. Subsequently, Churchill also angrily added to de Gaulle: Every time I have to decide between you and Roosevelt, I will always choose Roosevelt. (Later, they made up over dinner and fine wine.)* - Jon Danzig

He also said the following

In 1953 he said...

"Where do we stand? We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition "with" but not "of"we are with them, but not of them. We have our own Commonwealth and Empire."

Of course now we DONT have empire

In 1948 he said

We cannot aim at anything less than the Union of Europe as a whole, and we look forward with confidence to the day when that Union will be achieved.

a debate in June 1950 in the House of Commons to discuss a united Europe, Churchill said that he could not at present foresee Britain being a member of a Federal Union of Europe. However, Churchill went on to explain that this was primarily because of Britains position, at the centre of the British Empire and Commonwealth, and, our fraternal association with the United States of America. All that was to change during the course of the 1950s and 1960s.

Churchill made his last speech about Europe at Londons Central Hall, Westminster in July 1957; some four months after six founding nations established the European Economic Community by signing The Treaty of Rome (France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg). Churchill welcomed the formation of a common market by the six, provided that the whole of free Europe will have access. Churchill added, we genuinely wish to join.

But Churchill also warned:

If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it and not only in the economic field.* But Churchill also warned:

If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it and not only in the economic field.*

in August 1961, Churchill wrote:

I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...

Excellent informative post. Thank you!

But in 2016 Winnie may have a Gallipoli moment...

You mean of of the most popularly misinterpreted moments in 20th century history? - BTW - "Winnie" is dead

[cumgranosalum]

Brexiteers might pause to think what government we will have in the UK if we leave.

Try these scenarios.....

First - immediately after any out vote - cameron will resign.

Within a short time Boris will be PM

Any following government will be a Tory government - probably for the next 10 years - as England has no left opposition seats......they are mostly in Scotland and Wales and the Scottish ones have gone.,

During that time Scotland will hold another referendum and leave and negotiate their own deal with the EU - it will actually be easier for them to join from the outside.

Wales may want to leave the UK too....maybe with Scotland - which would be interesting as they might form a UK without England.

In almost any scenario England will be left isolated as an ultra-right wing "neighbour" to the left of centre EU, who are furious that they left.

i'd like to see what deals they think they can get from the EU then.

England (as it will then be known) will turn to trading with other countries around the world - old empire countries in Africa and Asia simply won't be interested after the last time the UK pillaged their economies.

Australia is now far more interested in selling to China and Asia, New Zealand will never forgive us for stopping the flow of expensive, subsidised butter.

The next problem will be what can we sell? well the financial markets will leave UK for Germany and France - so that won't be an option - the Japanese car manufacturers will gradually pull out as they only wanted to be able to sell in the EU, America has already said that the UK will lose a good trading position and they won't be interested in vehicles as they make enough of their own. Shipping Japanese cars around the world is a no-no as they simply build factories in countries where they want to sell - thus avoiding duties etc.

The resulting unemployment in UK good also bring civil unrest - [not many people realise that the reason Thatcher didn't close all the steel mills in Wales was that she was advised their was a real chance of civil unrest in the valleys if she went ahead]. England is likely to be a bitterly divided country with low income and a massively restive poor population

OK - this is a simplified look at the future and a bit tongue in cheek, but I haven't heard a single plausible forecast from the Brexiteers as to how they expect England to survive in a world where they are little more than a pariah

Sorry if this "scares" you but it is based totally on plausible scenarios.

Edited May 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Felipesed]

As you have such psychic powers, can you please tell me what lottery numbers to pick next week?

You are obviously a multi-millionaire by now with all your correct predictions!

[cumgranosalum]

As you have such psychic powers, can you please tell me what lottery numbers to pick next week?

You are obviously a multi-millionaire by now with all your correct predictions!

Which ones are those?...or didn't you understand the post?

however, if you take issue with anything I've posted, how about composing a reasoned rebuttal, may I draw your attention to a comment I made?...

"I haven't heard a single plausible forecast from the Brexiteers"

Edited May 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Felipesed]

Your posts are very difficult to comprehend, littered as they are with half-truths and wild guesswork, and garnished with an incredible and unsupportable arrogance.

[cumgranosalum]

Your posts are very difficult to comprehend, littered as they are with half-truths and wild guesswork, and garnished with an incredible and unsupportable arrogance.

YEs - I know I'll have to dumb it down for some.

but as I say if you care to pick up on a point, I'll be glad to hear your argument - so far, as predicted, you haven't put one.

[Linzz]

Snobby remark

Sorry if the truth hurts....

Now that's also a childish remark.

All people need to hear from you is your opinion on BREXIT which you are entitled to give. But no one is really interested in your opinion of yourself or even your opinion of others. In fact it's boorish and uncultured to be self opinionated and to indulge in condescension towards other members. Your divide of for or against BREXIT as related to education is simplistic and artificial.

how do we apply this to your post here?

It is a well established that the Brexiteers are from a less educated demographic

"analysis of around 30,000 Britons reveals that, broadly, those who would vote to leave the EU tend to have left school before their 17th birthday, to have few or no advanced academic qualifications, to be over 55 years old, and to work in less secure, lower-income jobs. In contrast, those who want Britain to remain a member of the EU tend to be younger, to be more highly educated, and to have more financially secure and professional jobs." - Chatham House

It's glaringly apparent the best of British snobbery and class warfare is alive and well on TVF. Must be a real feel good factor for the "educated class" to believe crap research backs up their superiority prejudice. "It's well established that Brexiteers are from a less educated demographic"? It's flawed research and not representative. There are plenty of university educated that want a BREXIT.

“who would vote to leave the EU tend to have left school before their 17th birthday, to have few or no advanced academic qualifications, to be over 55 years old,”

Most people over 55 would have attended school at a time when less than 10% went to university and therefore gone to work in "less secure, lower income jobs"

But that logically means to some on here that they somehow left their intelligence behind or didn't have any in the first place because they couldn't or didn't make it to university.

It seems that anyone who dissents from university driven leftist ideology is white, male, old and poorly educated. Oh and it must be so hard for those "educated" who secretly agree with BREXIT to be seen to identify with the riff raff. I realize that we should just roll over and keep quiet and listen to our betters, pay our taxes and let others decide for us but some of us understand freedom and democracy.

Years spent in socialist indoctrinated academia = higher intelligence. Yeah right. The pompous and stuffy elists from Chatham House can go fk themselves

[allanos]

The scenario painted by Cumgranosalum (not too sure of the true Latin meaning of this name -

with a grain of ?? anguish, anxiety, concern) is the product of a tortured and devious mind -

akin to the paintings by Vincent van Gogh, perhaps; so tortured that he cut off his ear!

The portent suggested by an exit by the United Kingdom from the EU are as implausible, and

unlikely, as something I read this morning by an "In" campaigner, viz. that the world will

stop buying scotch whisky if Britain "secedes" from the EU. If it has a remote chance of

coming to pass, I will start buying shares in the Suntory distillery in Japan immediately.

As to Wales trying to go it alone - the Joke of the Forum today!

[cumgranosalum]

The scenario painted by Cumgranosalum (not too sure of the true Latin meaning of this name -

with a grain of ?? anguish, anxiety, concern) is the product of a tortured and devious mind -

akin to the paintings by Vincent van Gogh, perhaps; so tortured that he cut off his ear!

The portent suggested by an exit by the United Kingdom from the EU are as implausible, and

unlikely, as something I read this morning by an "In" campaigner, viz. that the world will

stop buying scotch whisky if Britain "secedes" from the EU. If it has a remote chance of

coming to pass, I will start buying shares in the Suntory distillery in Japan immediately.

As to Wales trying to go it alone - the Joke of the Forum today!

pity - if you'd had an education you'd be able to understand the stats or even the words? still waiting for a plausible counter argument.

Edited May 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[SussexExpat]

The vast majority of my friends will also vote to stay in. They would rather opt for short term inevitability than long-term aspiration. What they mean when they say “my heart says one thing, but my head says another” is that they don’t have the balls to follow their own logic, because they know voting to stay in is a poor option. Some of them have a notion that the European Union and its ill-conceived currency are going to collapse, but they don’t have the strength of their conviction to leave the building before it collapses.

The above paragraph is taken from an article in todays Telegraph. Worth a read.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/10/i-think-were-having-the-wool-pulled-over-our-eyes-about-the-eu/

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

[SgtRock]

Your posts are very difficult to comprehend, littered as they are with half-truths and wild guesswork, and garnished with an incredible and unsupportable arrogance.

They are not difficult to understand.

They are the posts of an imbicile.

He has provided nothing to this thread, other than being a troll.