Crackdown On Foreign Teachers

[realthaideal]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

Oh yeah... good idea. And I should only try to speak Thai I learn from books and call myself Chan all the time. I woudn't ever want to learn how the real native speakers speak on the streets. I want to speak like a grammar book, that will help me get by in my new language in everyday life. I say this with the most sincere prachot prachan possible.

And Thais teaching Thais English. It can happen. Can. But in most cases, let's face it, that = the blind leading the blind.

[Laulen]

Once again, the authorities overlook the fact that to be an English teacher requires more than just a degree (useful training that this might be!).

Far more pertinent is the experience of teaching that the teaching applicant has had, where that experience was gained, and what TEACHING QUALIFICATIONS specific to the subject being taught does the applicant have.

We have heard nothing of this from the authorities. Once again, as is their right, they choose to ignore 'competent', experienced teachers without a degree. On top of that, for those with a degree, the application process is so long and bureaucratic that it is a wonder anyone is left who actually wants to teach English, for what many may think is a fantastic salary in Thailand, but in comparison even with neighbouring 'developing' nations is quite poor.

Please can the authorities take a more enlightened view in this area.

Laulen

[opothai]

i am no teacher, however i am sure i could teach the thai how to converse in english.

the salary expectations would of course be lower than an english teacher that could teach grammer along with common conversation.

then at the top of the scale you would probably get a proffessor of english, again a higher salary could be commanded.

now what schools in thailand could afford the top salaries.

there will be a dramatic decrease in the rural thais learning english along with some middle class, and only the elite would and could afford thier siblings to learn the international business language given the the present government guidlines.

therefore the elite keep the paupers where they belong, with no hope.

this is no way to take the country forward as a whole.

top teachers with all the top qualifications have a multitude of destinations of where to teach, so thailand will have to pay top dollar.

i just can not see it working

[johnnyk]

Of course there is no system for admins to evaluate candidates.

Admins and owners are not going to get on the phone or write an e-mail or fax to Michigan State U. or Durham U.

Mostly they don't have sufficient command of English and don't want to lose face, nor do they know what they are looking for in terms of paper and references.

Many of them lack basic admin skills because so much hiring is done on the basis of obligation to someone else and not evaluation of qualifications and suitability for the job.

They also haven't planned and they want/need someone NOW to put in front of the class tomorrow morning.

[Scott]

I met with the assistant at our school who handles the visa and work permit stuff for our foreign teachers. We do have to authenticate the degrees before WPs will be issued. We have to have a written letter from the school indicating the person did attend and receive the degree specified.

The letter requesting the information is apparently sufficient to get the MOE letter for the non-immigrant B visa. But the reply is needed to actually get the WP.

So, yes people will have to contact the University of "Nowhere" to obtain this stuff.

[Tolley]

Interesting topic...must be a lot of teachers on this board.

I don't think it is unreasonable to require that teachers have a degree but they should also have a relevant TESOL qualification and of course they should have some verifiable teaching experience.

That is fair enough. I suppose the problem for Thailand is that they will need to pay these people more as they can get jobs in other countries with much higher salaries due to their quals and experience.

30 - 40k baht which is what a lot of teachers get is almost starvation money. If you have invested in your education to get a degree then a post grad qual and have some experience this kind of money is an insult.

I think some Thais could teach English at an acceptable level but there will always be a need for native speakers with specialised teaching skills.

The world is gloabalised these days and English is the international language and Thailand is a poor performer when it comes to English so the need for English language training in Thailand is huge.

It will be interesting to see how these policy changes play out.

[Galong]

There are plenty of people with PHDs who are raging idiots! A piece of paper doesn't make you smarter or, in my opinion, any more qualified to teach a language.

I believe that GW has a degree and he's an embarassment when it comes to the English language... he, he, he...

[DrFisher]

There are plenty of people with PHDs who are raging idiots! A piece of paper doesn't make you smarter or, in my opinion, any more qualified to teach a language.

I believe that GW has a degree and he's an embarassment when it comes to the English language... he, he, he...

First of all (and I'm not a Bush supporter) I hope your an American after a comment like that.

You are correct a degree doesn't make you smarter "IQ" is hard to improve on; you are kind of stuck with what you have.

Albert Einstein is a good example of a man that found formal education difficult however he had a genius IQ so, it wasn't much of a set back for him. As we all know there aren't many Einstein's walking around Thailand let alone anywhere else in the world.

What a degree makes you is educated having spent some time in a place of higher learning you simply become educated (some people marginally) or flunk out.

The point is that there is no Western country in this world that is going to allow anyone to teach anything without an education; why should the Eastern countries be any different (do you think these people deserve less than you?) your teachers had an education. Is it fair? If not I want my money back and all the years back I spent killing myself going to school and working with as little as 2 hours of sleep many days and the year of internship I spent in the hospital 18 hours a day 28 days a month.

Try thinking about this topic from a non bias stand point and try to answer the question, "Would you want to learn form someone that really didn't know?"

I don't mean any disrespect I am just stating the facts, if I am wrong please correct me.

[geljune]

]I think that's better! Because it's so easy for especially asian people to just apply here all over thailand as teachers. They are actually non-pro teachers or even not teachers before. And of course, here paying fees for school is very expensive. Parents of course, need high quality education for their children. Some doesnt even teach by the book. Many for sure will agree on this! And the government should really do something,for good standard education's sake!ot only phuket, samui, bkk, but all over thailand. Especially International & Catholic Schools

Edited November 11, 2006 by geljune

[teepruksa]

If the Thai education system is to advance, it needs to clarify its objectives & manpower requirements. Until now, this has not been the case.

This chaotic situation has allowed a large number of unqualified personnel to pass themselves off as teachers. This is detrimental to the students in the long run & has to be corrected.

Much of the "teacher-trade" & associated support agencies & companies has revolved around the need to make money. In many ways, this situation is not too different to the "flesh-trade", except that the merchandise is new fresh 'teachers'. One wonders how much thought has actually been given to improving the education system & the product on offer, rather than improving the facilitators' bottom line?

Edited November 11, 2006 by teepruksa

[rexall]

One wonders how much thought has actually been given to improving the education system & the product on offer, rather than improving the facilitators' bottom line?

Sat 11 Nov 06, 11:29 a.m.

At the risk of biting the hand that feeds, I must say that I question the pervasive view in many Asian countries that everyone and anyone can and should learn English. For those students who lack the aptitude and/or motivation (much more important in learning a language as compared to say, studying geography or mathematics), it is a complete waste of everyone's time and resources for them to take up space in a language classroom for 2 or 3 or more years. Instead, let them study something they might succeed at and represent an actual benefit in their life. In the meantime, encourage and support those students are really are motivated and capable with smaller classes, better teachers, improved resources and facilities, more modern teaching methods.

Aloha,

Rex

[Robski]

Try thinking about this topic from a non bias stand point and try to answer the question, "Would you want to learn form someone that really didn't know?

Get a load of yourself 'Doc' a typical knee-jerk reaction from the morally outraged brigade.

a non bias stand point ?

can we have something more constructive. pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

[sriracha john]

from National Park Fees Thread:

As a mater of fact thailand as a country would colapse without thai bar girls to support the ecomony and husbands and family this country would be no more.

Excuse me but I believe there's a rule that only one troll is allowed per thread and since creeper was posting here first, you'll have to find another thread.

Thank you for understanding.

*edit*...

sorry, forgive my manners...I almost forgot....

and have a nice day.

It willl get rid of most of the pedifiles who come to prey on the innocent youth of thailand .I say this should have happened years ago.

I'm glad you took my advice from the other thread and found a different thread for yourself.

Best of luck to you and thank you for your cooperation.

[rexall]

It willl get rid of most of the pedifiles who come to prey on the innocent youth of thailand .I say this should have happened years ago.

Then I guess we can conclude from this statement that you would prefer your children be molested only by educated "pedifiles" rather than those stupid pediiles who have no degree?

NordicMan, sometimes I exaggerate a trillion times per nanosecond. I think a 'certified copy' just means that somebody saw an original that might have been a fake. Some degrees contain words written in Latin, where university is spelled VNIVERSITAD, and there's a story where they wanted it translated, or that the guy at Khao Sahn Road couldn't even spell!!

I meant to respond to this one from PeaceBlondie when it was first posted. Ultimately, a "certified copy" means whatever the MOE says that it means. However, I presume it is a copy issued by your school with an official seal and signature of the registrar, or whomever, certifying that it is a copy of the original on file. Some employers (not in Thailand I reckon) insist on certified copies from your school in an unopened envelope closed with an unbroken security seal. In any event, the only reliable verification must come directly from the school. Any documents--originals, certified copies, letters from the dean, or whatever--handed to an employer by an applicant can be counterfeited without too much difficulty.

Aloha,

Rex

[teepruksa]

One wonders how much thought has actually been given to improving the education system & the product on offer, rather than improving the facilitators' bottom line?

Sat 11 Nov 06, 11:29 a.m.

At the risk of biting the hand that feeds, I must say that I question the pervasive view in many Asian countries that everyone and anyone can and should learn English. For those students who lack the aptitude and/or motivation (much more important in learning a language as compared to say, studying geography or mathematics), it is a complete waste of everyone's time and resources for them to take up space in a language classroom for 2 or 3 or more years. Instead, let them study something they might succeed at and represent an actual benefit in their life. In the meantime, encourage and support those students are really are motivated and capable with smaller classes, better teachers, improved resources and facilities, more modern teaching methods.

Aloha,

Rex

Many countries educate their learners in a 1st & 2nd language. Some, like Switzerland, educate the learners in 4 languages. There are various reasons for doing so.

I believe that at least the mother-tongue & plus say, English, French, German, Spanish or Chinese, will prepare the learner to meet & communicate with the modern world. To train only the mother tongue does them a dis-service.

Added to this basic language requirement should be the tools they will need for later life e.g. mathematics, physics, biology, geography, history - the selection of which depends on their specific preferred career direction.

Most Thai learners have not had sufficient grounding in English as a second language. This severely impinges on their ability to communicate in the modern workplace.

[rexall]

Many countries educate their learners in a 1st & 2nd language. Some, like Switzerland, educate the learners in 4 languages. There are various reasons for doing so.

Sat 11 Nov 06, 7:10 p.m.

I question whether there are "many reasons" for universal, compulsory second-language learning. Personally, I think it is an "old wives tale" that studying languages is somehow "good for you" even if you have no particular interest or aptitude for it. Particularly aptitude. I would not prevent someone from studying if they wanted to, but neither would I force them to. Why? It used to be prevailing wisdom that studying classical languages (ancient Greek and Latin) was "good you" in some unspecified sort of way. We don't bother with that anymore except for those who have an interest. Why spend a precious 5 classroom hours per week for two, three or more years studying something you are never going to be any good at, never be interested in, and never use?

There is another issue as well. Switzerland is a misleading example. I recently read somewhere that American schools are gearing up to meet the increasing demand for Chinese Language instruction. The story mentioned that speakers of European languages require approximately 1,500 hours of instructions to learn Chinese as compared to learning another European language. I cannot confirm this, but I have no problem with it, and I assume the same is true for Chinese learners studying English.

In some ideal world, every Thai child knowing a little English sounds great. But, personally, I think that is more fantasy and wishful thinking than anything else and that resources could be better allocated in some other way. I know that may sound like "heresy", but think about it. Quick, every TEFL teacher in a Thai school who feels that most of his or her students are actually learning any English, raise your hands!

Aloha,

Rex

Edited November 11, 2006 by rexall

[Hermano Lobo]

Certain posters here seem to have misunderstood that teaching *conversation* (what TEFL teachers generally do) is not teaching *grammar* (what TEFL teachers generally don't). *Thai* English teachers teach formal grammar/mechanics/pronunciation rules- that's what they do well, and is why very little English is ever spoken in Thai-taught Thai classrooms.

Let's take a little example and see if our "educated" commentators can help me out:

When I was a TEFLer, I ran into a bit of a pronunciation mystery. The words photo, photograph, and photographer all have different stress patterns and vowel sounds on the 2nd syllables. There *is* a rule that accounts for this, but I never found out what it was called- a friend of mine who'd done a masters specialising in GRAMMAR & MECHANICS (sounds awful, doesn't it?) did happen to know about it, but he'd forgotten specifically what the rule was called.

So here's the challenge.

1. What's the rule? Name it specifically and quote your source.

2. Explain how knowing the name of this rule and teaching it to Thai elementary/high school students could possibly make any difference in their study of English- as it is, after all, "one of the rules."

I *did* actually teach the pronunciation changes, which is all that any native speaker I have ever met (except for that one guy I just mentioned with the master's degree) has ever known about.

To know "all the rules of grammar" literally means an entire encyclopedia of detail, and I doubt that anyone without an academic specialisation in the matter knows even most of them, or that it would ever, ever matter in the typical TEFL environment even if such an environment could pay the kinds of people who would know.

"Steven"

P.S. A No-Prize to the first person who comes up with the rule, especially if it is without googling.

"Steven"-

I was not aware that TEFL teaching is generally about conversational English.

If I were a teacher (conditional.. I think ?) I would want to teach grammar as well as conversation.

I would also want to see some result. Students learning quickly and being able to put that learning to use, to encourage them to study further. Still, I am not a teacher and my grammar and punctuation are crap anyway.

Interesting thread ...

Commandante Hermano Lobo

[rexall]

speakers of European languages require approximately 1,500 hours of instructions to learn Chinese as compared to learning another European language.

Sat 11 Nov 06, 8:16 p.m.

Ooops! My "edit" button seems to have disappeared. I am quoting myself above, and that sentence should read:

" . . . speakers of European languages require approximately 1,500 hours of instructions to learn Chinese as compared to 500 hours learning another European language

[teepruksa]

Many countries educate their learners in a 1st & 2nd language. Some, like Switzerland, educate the learners in 4 languages. There are various reasons for doing so.

Sat 11 Nov 06, 7:10 p.m.

I question whether there are "many reasons" for universal, compulsory second-language learning. Personally, I think it is an "old wives tale" that studying languages is somehow "good for you" even if you have no particular interest or aptitude for it. Particularly aptitude. I would not prevent someone from studying if they wanted to, but neither would I force them to. Why? It used to be prevailing wisdom that studying classical languages (ancient Greek and Latin) was "good you" in some unspecified sort of way. We don't bother with that anymore except for those who have an interest. Why spend a precious 5 classroom hours per week for two, three or more years studying something you are never going to be any good at, never be interested in, and never use?

There is another issue as well. Switzerland is a misleading example. I recently read somewhere that American schools are gearing up to meet the increasing demand for Chinese Language instruction. The story mentioned that speakers of European languages require approximately 1,500 hours of instructions to learn Chinese as compared to learning another European language. I cannot confirm this, but I have no problem with it, and I assume the same is true for Chinese learners studying English.

In some ideal world, every Thai child knowing a little English sounds great. But, personally, I think that is more fantasy and wishful thinking than anything else and that resources could be better allocated in some other way. I know that may sound like "heresy", but think about it. Quick, every TEFL teacher in a Thai school who feels that most of his or her students are actually learning any English, raise your hands!

Aloha,

Rex

The problem with poor 2nd language skills begins the moment the learner enters either a Tertiary learning environment, or into industry.

In Thailand, the lack of English communication skills puts a major damper on the ability of foreign companies to transfer Technology into Thai hands. In this regard, the two languages required are Japanese & English - in the main. Recently the Japanese have raised concerns over the lack of skilled manpower available in the Thai economy. This has recently led to decisions to position new projects in surrounding countries, rather than Thailand.

It is a serious problem which is going to have to be addressed if Thailand is to enter the modern age.

[Ijustwannateach]

Hermano: If you were familiar with 90% of TEFL as it is practiced in Thailand in public schools, you would know that it is largely composed of conversational activities and games with elementary and younger high school age students. Grammar teaching is handled by the Thai teachers. The point is that the Thai teachers are so incapable of speaking in Ejnglish, and the students so afraid of speaking in English, that it is best to encourage conversational foreign language skills in a safe environment (away from the Thai teachers) without much academic pressure.

*Are* you familiar with TEFL as it is practiced in Thai government schools?

"Steven"

[Hermano Lobo]

Hermano: If you were familiar with 90% of TEFL as it is practiced in Thailand in public schools, you would know that it is largely composed of conversational activities and games with elementary and younger high school age students. Grammar teaching is handled by the Thai teachers. The point is that the Thai teachers are so incapable of speaking in Ejnglish, and the students so afraid of speaking in English, that it is best to encourage conversational foreign language skills in a safe environment (away from the Thai teachers) without much academic pressure.

*Are* you familiar with TEFL as it is practiced in Thai government schools?

"Steven"

"Steven"

Not yet but I should next year. My child will be changing schools to another that is nearer.

Both schools are Thai but bi-lingual. The fees are reasonable and apparently they have

farang teachers. I do not know whether this is termed a Government school or not.

I hope to visit the school and chat to the English teachers.

Thanks for your reply......

Edited November 11, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[Ijustwannateach]

True, the so-called "bi-lingual" programs and EP's and MP's are higher level than just TEFL- those require real English teaching, even language arts teaching at the higher levels: subject teaching. But that's not the kind of nuts-and-bolts TEFL to which I'm referring- the kind of stuff that average Thai kids will encounter in the relatively poorer government schools without being in any special programs.

[PeaceBlondie]

I doubt that there are 'a lot of creeps' teaching EFL in Thailand, percentagewise. Many of them are young men who marry Thai ladies and settle down here. Some of us are older, semi-retired gentlemen (okay I use the term loosely) or grandfathers.

However, expatriates in general, including most members of ThaiVisa forums, are not completely normal.

I doubt that the rules proposed by the Ministry of Education will eliminate creeps.

[moebius]

English is a shell game involving big money.

As in many acquired skills, it takes one person to teach the theory and another to tell you how it really works.

[Tolley]

Hermano: If you were familiar with 90% of TEFL as it is practiced in Thailand in public schools, you would know that it is largely composed of conversational activities and games with elementary and younger high school age students. Grammar teaching is handled by the Thai teachers. The point is that the Thai teachers are so incapable of speaking in Ejnglish, and the students so afraid of speaking in English, that it is best to encourage conversational foreign language skills in a safe environment (away from the Thai teachers) without much academic pressure.

*Are* you familiar with TEFL as it is practiced in Thai government schools?

"Steven"

Interesting that conversation and grammar are seen or taught as seperate entities.

I thought when teaching conversation grammatical structures were reinforced?

ie There are many grammar game books where different grammatical structures are taught via games and conversations.

[PeaceBlondie]

To add to what ijustwannateach has said: just one step above pure conversation classes (where the students hear the native speaker and try to correct their own pronunciation), there inevitably comes a grammar lesson. At least there is when I teach beginners, because I've known grammar for almost all my life, and secondary students in Thailand know their grammar even if they hate it. If you're a native speaking teacher who believes you aren't supposed to teach grammar (or if you can't teach grammar), you just ignore it and teach words. Then you have to grate your teeth when they something is "funner" or, "Last week I go to market."

The same with spelling: you great your teath.

[Tolley]

When i was a teacher many moons ago we used to have conversation classes based on some grammatical structures and have the students working in groups and then feedback by putting all the grammatically incorrect sentences we heard on the board and getting the students to self correct.

[otherstuff1957]

[

Interesting that conversation and grammar are seen or taught as seperate entities.

I thought when teaching conversation grammatical structures were reinforced?

ie There are many grammar game books where different grammatical structures are taught via games and conversations.

Yes, Tolley, you are right. Grammar and conversation cannot really be taught entirely separately, but most Farang teachers at most Thai schools place more of an emphasis on conversation, while their Thai counterparts teach grammar, spelling and vocabulary, with a minimum of actual conversation.

Ideally, the Farang and Thai teachers can coordinate their lessons so that, for instance, the Thai teacher teaches the students about past simple tense and the Farang teaches them how to actually use the past simple tense in real sentences and conversations.

I have been trying to reach that ideal for the past three years and have never even come close. In my first year in Thailand I asked the Thai English teachers if there was a syllabus or textbook or cirriculum that they were following so that I could tailor my lessons to it. They responded with blank looks and, finally, a vague wave at a table in the back of the office that was stacked high with miscellaneous papers.

I did finally find (on another forum, not in a Thai school) what the expectations are for the grades I am currently teaching:

Foreign Language (English):

(1) Language for Communication

( A) Understanding the listening and speaking process. Be able to understand a story from listening to and reading various media and apply this understanding logically.

( Gain communication skills to exchange news and information, express thoughts and opinions by using the proper technology and management for lifelong learning.

( C) The speaking and writing process. Gain communication skills to present information and express opinions. Summarize texts creatively and efficiently

(2) Language and Culture

( A) The relationship between the language and the culture of native speakers. Behave appropriately in different situations.

( The similarities and differences in the cultures and languages of native speakers and Thais. Apply these understandings logically.

Neat stuff, but it's not exactly the level of detail that I was looking for.

I'm being a bit prolix here, so let me cut to the chase. If the MOE really wanted to improve the level of English teaching here in Thailand they should:

1. License Farang teachers directly, rather than through the schools, so the schools could just hire licensed teachers, rather than hiring unlicensed teachers and having to go through all of the noncense associated with getting their teachers' new licenses.

2. Give licensed teachers a one year Work Permit and Visa THAT IS NOT TIED TO ONE PARTICULAR EMPLOYER! Although there should be a stipulation that they would have to work a certain number of months and pay taxes in order to keep the license and permit.

3. Create a lesser qualification - say Teaching Assistant or Tutor for undegreed teachers, so that they can work for Language Centers or as 'teaching assistants' in Thai Schools.

4. Commission or, at least, approve some textbooks for EFL teachers to use that are appropriate for Thai students at various levels.

I think the MOE wants to improve the quality of EL instruction here in Thailand, but they just don't seem to have a clue as to how to do so.

P.S.: I'm not making an editorial comment with those smilies in the middle of my MOE quote. I can't seem to edit them out!

Edited November 13, 2006 by otherstuff1957

[Ijustwannateach]

Many Kudos, Otherstuff! I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Some inflammatory stuff by a flakey creep now on holiday has been removed, along with related eye-rolling posts.

"Steven"

[sting01]

[

Interesting that conversation and grammar are seen or taught as seperate entities.

I thought when teaching conversation grammatical structures were reinforced?

ie There are many grammar game books where different grammatical structures are taught via games and conversations.

Yes, Tolley, you are right. Grammar and conversation cannot really be taught entirely separately, but most Farang teachers at most Thai schools place more of an emphasis on conversation, while their Thai counterparts teach grammar, spelling and vocabulary, with a minimum of actual conversation.

Ideally, the Farang and Thai teachers can coordinate their lessons so that, for instance, the Thai teacher teaches the students about past simple tense and the Farang teaches them how to actually use the past simple tense in real sentences and conversations.

I have been trying to reach that ideal for the past three years and have never even come close. In my first year in Thailand I asked the Thai English teachers if there was a syllabus or textbook or cirriculum that they were following so that I could tailor my lessons to it. They responded with blank looks and, finally, a vague wave at a table in the back of the office that was stacked high with miscellaneous papers.

I did finally find (on another forum, not in a Thai school) what the expectations are for the grades I am currently teaching:

Foreign Language (English):

(1) Language for Communication

( A) Understanding the listening and speaking process. Be able to understand a story from listening to and reading various media and apply this understanding logically.

( Gain communication skills to exchange news and information, express thoughts and opinions by using the proper technology and management for lifelong learning.

( C) The speaking and writing process. Gain communication skills to present information and express opinions. Summarize texts creatively and efficiently

(2) Language and Culture

( A) The relationship between the language and the culture of native speakers. Behave appropriately in different situations.

( The similarities and differences in the cultures and languages of native speakers and Thais. Apply these understandings logically.

Neat stuff, but it's not exactly the level of detail that I was looking for.

I'm being a bit prolix here, so let me cut to the chase. If the MOE really wanted to improve the level of English teaching here in Thailand they should:

1. License Farang teachers directly, rather than through the schools, so the schools could just hire licensed teachers, rather than hiring unlicensed teachers and having to go through all of the noncense associated with getting their teachers' new licenses.

2. Give licensed teachers a one year Work Permit and Visa THAT IS NOT TIED TO ONE PARTICULAR EMPLOYER! Although there should be a stipulation that they would have to work a certain number of months and pay taxes in order to keep the license and permit.

3. Create a lesser qualification - say Teaching Assistant or Tutor for undegreed teachers, so that they can work for Language Centers or as 'teaching assistants' in Thai Schools.

4. Commission or, at least, approve some textbooks for EFL teachers to use that are appropriate for Thai students at various levels.

I think the MOE wants to improve the quality of EL instruction here in Thailand, but they just don't seem to have a clue as to how to do so.

P.S.: I'm not making an editorial comment with those smilies in the middle of my MOE quote. I can't seem to edit them out!

Yes, that is the way to go, and incidently what I do not stop to say since years (both here and in ajarn.com).

Trully happy to discover even if I am old fart french (the usual comment I get), there is other people out there who have the same conclusions (anyway, are you french of with french ancestors? do you have often some gaz? be careful people are fast to jump to conclusion lol).

Anyway it's more or less how it work in EU (at least in France still)