Thailand attack: British family 'vow never to return' after savage street attack

[Tomtomtom69]

One thing that is typical and not surprising is how people nearby were watching arms folded. I seen it before in Thailand. When someone is in distress and attacked its a case of "nothing to do with me"

And thats true of women and children attacked. Says something about the place!

I was with a friend a few years ago on motor bikes, and he was riding ahead of me and swerved to avoid a cat on the road. The bike jackknifed and he ended up bouncing down the road like a rag doll. Lots of Thais just looking on with disdain, and it was a farang Dive Shop owner who came to help, took my friend to hospital in his truck, even waiting until he was treated and released, and took him home - only minor injuries, but it could have been much worse, and the Thais couldn't have cared less.

Thais generally don't help anyone who happens to be the victim of a road accident, nothing to do with being Thai or not. They don't go up to the victim to check out what skin colour he/she has before deciding whether to help or not. Most people wouldn't even assume that a foreigner would be involved in an accident - in any given location the assumption (and the reality) is that you have a lot of Thais and maybe a small number of foreigners.

Thais don't help because they don't want to be accused of doing something wrong or something they didn't do. Whether that's reasonable or not, I dunno. However, I've witnessed accidents unfold in front of me and rarely did anyone do anything other than call an ambulance.

[dick dasterdly]

do a little more than they are currently. Their advice to tourists coming here is pretty basic.

They provide consular assistance to British nationals in emergencies, they're not here to act as our parents. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London is responsible for issuing foreign travel advice to British nationals, not the British Embassy in Thailand.

And that would be fine if they actually did help Brits needing assistance.

But they only provide the minimum help necessary as far as I can make out. Their remit is to promote Brit business/govt interests and they couldn't give a toss about Brit tourists/residents here.

[Tomtomtom69]

"The world will deal with it as it sees fit and regardless of TV forums"

The world doesn't care about Thailand. Lol. Some people on TVF really hope Thailand will be blacklisted and avoided by tourists but that won't happen. The show must go on and dozens of planes today alone are bringing in foreigners who will spend well needed euros, dollars and pounds.

This attack was absolutely horrible and must be condemned, but what to make of it? Well for starters, to assume that it is evidence that Thailand is somehow more dangerous than any other country in the region (or the world) is absolutely ridiculous. Isolated incidents of violence, some of which may be directed at foreigners unfortunately can and do occur. It's been happening for years - back in the early 2000s I was reading a couple of stories out of my Lonely Planet guidebook to Thailand, published in the year 1999 or 2000, about a western backpacker who was murdered by a monk on drugs in Pai, and westerners on motorcycles (usually big bikes) getting shot at on isolated roads in Mae Hong Son province and the like. This story will likely be added to the next edition of the Lonely Planet guide as the latest in a growing, but not surprising list of violence involving foreigners, which is statistically likely to occur at some point in a country with almost 30 million (an incredible figure!) international tourists a year.

On the whole, Thailand is safe though and that's why as you say, plane loads of foreigners, along with thousands more crossing land borders from Thailand's 4 neighbors make their way into the Kingdom daily. Nearly all of them will have a good time, get to their destinations safely and those that aren't residents of Thailand will eventually depart safely back to their countries of residence.

About 25% of all foreign tourists to Thailand will also be spending Yuan.

[Celer et Audax]

I would like to see a fair fight - these 6 Thai tough guys unarmed facing 6 unarmed British paras.

Or better still 2 "Chosen men"

[Celer et Audax]

Women start fights usually because they never had to finish one. She thought she could push a small yellow man around. She found out she couldn't

Small yellow man? Did this incident happen in China? I must of missed something

[Celer et Audax]

You can say anything u like to me I will not hit you. I dont care. Insult my mum, my sister, my gf. I dont care. All the machos on this very forum, geriatrics, quite funny. And quite pathetic. 555

Might want to include: if a 65 year old woman slaps me, I will just laugh and walk away, no doubt muttering choice phrases, rather than beat the crap out of her.

Only low life scum would do that.

True. But then we were not slabbed by a geriatric but some young Thai lowlives were. In other words: apples and oranges. I can not stress this enough. It's scum versus scum in this story. Old white trash hits young yellow trash and vice versa. Somnamnààààààààà.

No, they're not the same. Anyone who assaults pensioners in this manner are the lowest form of scum.

Nothing can justify or explain away their vile behaviour.

Nothing.

Most agree with you and many others.. There is no way to explain away the vile behaviour of the Thai's..

There's also no way to explain away the stupid behavior of this family from Whales.

Anyone that assault not only Thai's, but drunk Thai's.. Can't be in touch with reality!

Or, just another bunch of ignorant tourist believing they are entitled to push around and assault the locals, as if it's part of their travel itinerary.

I'm on the side of... "Both" the tourist and Thai's were.... WRONG!!

do you mean Wales the country rather than Whales the largest mammals on the planet?

[Celer et Audax]

I sort of understand what happened with that incident. It definitely shows what Thais are really about - this is what they would do to all Farangs if they were given an opportunity to do it.

On another hand, you know that 43 year old was kind of really stupid for putting the whole group in danger. If I saw a few drunk thugs sorting their business out - I would keep a good 500 meter safety distance from them in any case, and Especially If I had my own family members with me around - this is so elementary, I had no idea I could have to explain this to some people apparently. I've seen this before in other countries and I know how quickly these things can escalate. These British people out of 10 things they could get wrong in the street survival Bible got all 10 wrong somehow - I just don't understand how naive these people are and how it's possible. It's no excuse for the thugs of course. But I mean seriously British people - you need to get a clue and fast because thanks to your stupidity you could put a lot of other Farangs in danger as well who could happen to be in the same area where you are stirring up some trouble... I pretty much stayed indoors the entire Songkran period - that's when all the muppets are out getting drunk and causing all kinds of mayhem - but if you were going to get in the middle of it all - the least you could do is at least try to stay away and not agitate the already extremely drunk and agitated - this should be as clear as 2x2, but apparently not to some people...

I don't understand why they were even walking through that area, I would have walked a whole mile around it, but I mean brushing people and then punching them instead of calling the police - I mean come on... I understand that we are dealing with some seriously disturbed racist people - but the least you could is minimize the damage to yourselves and others...

What do you mean 'seriously British people'? These are three people, not representative of the whole nation. If we're not going to tar all Thais with the same brush then perhaps you can do the British the same courtesy?

Do Scots people living in Wales count as British?

Everybody who is a citizen of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Norther Ireland" is British!!!

However some often prefer to describe themselves as English, Welsh, Scottish or indeed Irish depending on which part of the UK. They hail from

[ardokano]

Thank goodness the British media and others have well publicized this tragic and brutal attack.

Yes. Let this be a warning to tourists not to push, slap and punch Thai guys because they can be brutal when provoked.

rabid animals do not need to punch them should be killed !!

[ardokano]

Lewis said he was not sure why they were attacked.

“I didn’t know them, it was just random,” he said.

It wasn't 'random', they were beaten up because the mother slapped one Thai man in the face and the father punched another one while the son held him from behind. The clip being shown in the UK edits out all this, but it can be seen clearly in the full clip that the Brits throw the first punches.

First thai man pushed tourist..

After start argue.

And after women 6X yer old?? sllaped its reason turn her face into the meat??

[Mark123456]

do a little more than they are currently. Their advice to tourists coming here is pretty basic.

They provide consular assistance to British nationals in emergencies, they're not here to act as our parents. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London is responsible for issuing foreign travel advice to British nationals, not the British Embassy in Thailand.

And that would be fine if they actually did help Brits needing assistance.

But they only provide the minimum help necessary as far as I can make out. Their remit is to promote Brit business/govt interests and they couldn't give a toss about Brit tourists/residents here.

When you say 'as far as I can make out', what are you basing your opinion on? I've heard a lot of negative opinions about the British Embassy but no solid facts. Also, I haven't noticed the American, Australian, Canadian or other Western embassies being any more vocal or supportive when their nationals are in trouble. I'd be happy to be proved wrong but it seems to me that the British Embassy is unfairly targeted, for one reason or another.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Mark123456

[D3030]

You can say anything u like to me I will not hit you. I dont care. Insult my mum, my sister, my gf. I dont care. All the machos on this very forum, geriatrics, quite funny. And quite pathetic. 555

Might want to include: if a 65 year old woman slaps me, I will just laugh and walk away, no doubt muttering choice phrases, rather than beat the crap out of her.

Only low life scum would do that.

True. But then we were not slabbed by a geriatric but some young Thai lowlives were. In other words: apples and oranges. I can not stress this enough. It's scum versus scum in this story. Old white trash hits young yellow trash and vice versa. Somnamnààààààààà.

No, they're not the same. Anyone who assaults pensioners in this manner are the lowest form of scum.

Nothing can justify or explain away their vile behaviour.

Nothing.

Most agree with you and many others.. There is no way to explain away the vile behaviour of the Thai's..

There's also no way to explain away the stupid behavior of this family from Whales.

Anyone that assault not only Thai's, but drunk Thai's.. Can't be in touch with reality!

Or, just another bunch of ignorant tourist believing they are entitled to push around and assault the locals, as if it's part of their travel itinerary.

I'm on the side of... "Both" the tourist and Thai's were.... WRONG!!

do you mean Wales the country rather than Whales the largest mammals on the planet?

Oops.. Obviously not the largest mammal...

Thanks for pointing that out..

Edited May 2, 2016 by D3030

[streetsweeper]

Bullies on the streets, bullies in political positions of power and law enforcement, bullies wearing saffron robes.

No doubt TAT will release a nice spin statement.

Notice how the junta leader has distanced himself?

Speaks volumes to the world and to bully-minded Thais.

[kamahele]

I can remember seeing this type of Hooliganism before, in Europe, committed by English soccer (excuse me football) fans (let's not forget skin heads and other trash in the west as well). This type of behavior is brutal no matter where it takes place, and it takes place everywhere. For many here to suggest that Thai men are more prone to this type of behavior than others is just stupid. I'm not making excuses for the Thai people involved in this incident but to link this type of behavior to all Thai men or all Thai people is ludicrous. It happens in my own country and in the home countries of the rest of the old, white people who frequent this site.There are bad apples everywhere. Now, what the criminal justice system here does with the case is another story. Thailand has many problems for which constructive criticism is called for, but there is a group of trolls on this site that just hate the country and the people. If you hate the country and the people, leave the country, stop visiting, and leave this site as your hatefulness is not helpful.

Edited May 2, 2016 by kamahele

[Docno]

One thing that is typical and not surprising is how people nearby were watching arms folded. I seen it before in Thailand. When someone is in distress and attacked its a case of "nothing to do with me"

And thats true of women and children attacked. Says something about the place!

Bystander apathy or non-intervention is a well-established feature of social behaviour, and it occurs all over the world. The tendency not to help victims when other people are present seems to be a universal characteristic of human-beings. In general, the larger the number of bystanders, the lower the likelihood that any one of them will help.

Very true. And I've seen several threads here in the past in which a lot of forum members say that it's not smart to intervene in Thailand when you see conflicts between Thais, even if it's a man abusing a woman. They say doing so is a good way to get yourself killed. I guess the tune changes when the victims are westerners. [p.s.I'm not arguing in favour of non-intervention, just highlighting an apparent inconsistency I've observed]

[Moonsterk]

“TAT would like to assure international travellers that this was an isolated incident, not targeted on any group of foreign tourists in particular. The situation was exacerbated by alcohol.”

That is another bull...t

Simply , those thugs was looking for blood and under influence whole nature is coming out towards foreigners... far to often just because this weird kind of law has this country allowing such bandits to skip real punishment .

I just wander if those bandits appeared in local Thai news ?????....probably NOT because they don't like dark truth about themselfs.

I have seen in my over 60 years of existence many bad situations but never see kicked old woman in the face specially when she was already punched and on the ground.

Just look how many locals was defending them .....?????

Someone want's to tell me that Thai have respect for old people.....??????????????

ironically more and more weird rules are implemented against foreign tourist in Thailand this days.....instead they should look closely to own people .

Shame shame shame.....Thailand.

Every similar incident is going to the world and this image of land of smile is just loosing this image drastically just because law in this country is on their own side.

I can bet that those bandits will be not properly punished as always before......

Police explanation in this and similar cases is just same stupid like those bandits act.

The 2:30 minute long video I saw did have some Thais trying to stop it, in fact one young woman took a nasty hit.

There is a western man seen hurrying away urging his Asian gf away from the area, wisely. One never knows when a gun will come out in these situations.

It is clear to me the Owens instigated and incited the violence and assaulted the first Thai. An odd caress- was Lewis Jr. fondling his chest? Mrs. Owens slapping and Lewis Jr holding him so Mr Owens could punch him. I don't think he should have been charged for his role- or if so, then so should the Owens.

I see most posters cannot, or will not see this incident had Thais acting individually, not a gang, not a group.

I view the last kick of Mrs. Owens, which was inexcusable absolutely- was by a man who seemed to simply be an opportunist in the situation.

[Moonsterk]

Lewis said he was not sure why they were attacked.

“I didn’t know them, it was just random,” he said.

It wasn't 'random', they were beaten up because the mother slapped one Thai man in the face and the father punched another one while the son held him from behind. The clip being shown in the UK edits out all this, but it can be seen clearly in the full clip that the Brits throw the first punches.

First thai man pushed tourist..

After start argue.

And after women 6X yer old?? sllaped its reason turn her face into the meat??

First tourist touch Thai man's chest ( was that a sort of caress? ) Thai man push tourist. Tourist trip over mother, hits head. Mother leaves son on ground to get into bitch slap mode :50... fast forward 45 seconds, son holds Thai man father hits Thai man... fast forward 2:20 tourist family on ground.

Incidentally http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/161851

British couple vows to return to Hua Hin despite brutal attack Edited May 3, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Tomtomtom69]

Lewis said he was not sure why they were attacked.

“I didn’t know them, it was just random,” he said.

It wasn't 'random', they were beaten up because the mother slapped one Thai man in the face and the father punched another one while the son held him from behind. The clip being shown in the UK edits out all this, but it can be seen clearly in the full clip that the Brits throw the first punches.

First thai man pushed tourist..

After start argue.

And after women 6X yer old?? sllaped its reason turn her face into the meat??

Interesting. I have seen the clip, but it does not show what DP25 claims probably because I was viewing the edited version?

If true, then this whole argument about these tourists being innocent victims is refuted. I always knew there was more to this story. While it doesn't excuse the horrible attack on this family, which was probably still disproportionate, if they did indeed throw the first punches, it's no wonder then that they ended up in hospital.

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be reading about this if the tourists had stopped at having a mild altercation only involving words, or better yet, just walked away altogether.

[ardokano]

Lewis said he was not sure why they were attacked.

“I didn’t know them, it was just random,” he said.

It wasn't 'random', they were beaten up because the mother slapped one Thai man in the face and the father punched another one while the son held him from behind. The clip being shown in the UK edits out all this, but it can be seen clearly in the full clip that the Brits throw the first punches.

First thai man pushed tourist..

After start argue.

And after women 6X yer old?? sllaped its reason turn her face into the meat??

First tourist touch Thai man's chest ( was that a sort of caress? ) Thai man push tourist. Tourist trip over mother, hits head. Mother leaves son on ground to get into bitch slap mode :50... fast forward 45 seconds, son holds Thai man father hits Thai man... fast forward 2:20 tourist family on ground.

Incidentally http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/161851

British couple vows to return to Hua Hin despite brutal attack

where you see that?

can you give me link and time on video?

And I see only as a tourist hand pushed( even not hurd just litle touch) the drunken man(as can see later even it not man is a mad dog ) out of the way his woman in the crowd . 23 sec https://youtu.be/PsbE7Gku5iU

I am evry time do it.. Mean care about women with me( mum/girl/sister/wife)

And look many guys do it even in Thailand.

PS

if follow your logic.

I need evry day in Pattaya/Bangkok punch few guys or leave in they yes pen?

[Moonmoon]

has this post ended yet?

Edited May 3, 2016 by Moonmoon

[Slip]

Lewis said he was not sure why they were attacked.

“I didn’t know them, it was just random,” he said.

It wasn't 'random', they were beaten up because the mother slapped one Thai man in the face and the father punched another one while the son held him from behind. The clip being shown in the UK edits out all this, but it can be seen clearly in the full clip that the Brits throw the first punches.

First thai man pushed tourist..

After start argue.

And after women 6X yer old?? sllaped its reason turn her face into the meat??

First tourist touch Thai man's chest ( was that a sort of caress? ) Thai man push tourist. Tourist trip over mother, hits head. Mother leaves son on ground to get into bitch slap mode :50... fast forward 45 seconds, son holds Thai man father hits Thai man... fast forward 2:20 tourist family on ground.

Incidentally http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/161851

British couple vows to return to Hua Hin despite brutal attack

Sentence. need. all. word. or. piggin.

[ardokano]

Interesting. I have seen the clip, but it does not show what DP25 claims probably because I was viewing the edited version?

If true, then this whole argument about these tourists being innocent victims is refuted. I always knew there was more to this story. While it doesn't excuse the horrible attack on this family, which was probably still disproportionate, if they did indeed throw the first punches, it's no wonder then that they ended up in hospital.

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be reading about this if the tourists had stopped at having a mild altercation only involving words, or better yet, just walked away altogether.

First punches? You guess 60 more year old women sllap it punches?

And it happened after drunk mad dog pushing her men on ground?

[Brizo]

The 2:30 minute long video I saw did have some Thais trying to stop it, in fact one young woman took a nasty hit.

This thread( a tidal wave of raw sewage ) shows that bigoted people only see and acknowledge the things that confirm their bigoted view of the world while ignoring everything else.

Contrary to popular belief there were plenty of Thais trying to intervene and help the tourists, one of the male Thais trying to help was assaulted by the tourists for his trouble, had his hair pulled, face raked, jostled and finally punched in the face. Another tiny thai girl tried to get between one of the tourists and another Thai to break up the fight, she was then picked up and body slammed onto the concrete by the tourist.

[BritManToo]

This thread( a tidal wave of raw sewage ) shows that bigoted people only see and acknowledge the things that confirm their bigoted view of the world while ignoring everything else.

I saw a young Thai male kicking granny in the face, while she was trying to sit up.

What did you see to justify what I saw?

Edited May 3, 2016 by BritManToo

[Brizo]

Language problem....?

Do you mean this thread or why the tourists assaulted the Thais or?

I saw a young Thai male kicking granny in the face, while she was trying to sit up.

What did you see to justify what I saw?

Granny getting kicked in the face wasn't the worst thing in the video, not sure why people are fixating on that, for me it was her son having his head stamped on repeatedly when he was already unconscious.

Granny did more than anyone else to cause the brawl, she was the reason her family were seriously assaulted, she didn't even show any concern for her son when he went down twice or for her husband when he got knocked down, she was too busy brawling and running her mouth off...I'm guessing this wasn't grannies first rodeo, I imagine this has played out many times before when her and hubby have been out drinking, it didn't look like hubby's first time to sneak punch someone either.

Granny getting kicked in the face? ...som nam na as they say! If you want to be treated like a fragile old lady then act like one!

Edited May 3, 2016 by Brizo

[ardokano]

I can remember seeing this type of Hooliganism before, in Europe, committed by English soccer (excuse me football) fans (let's not forget skin heads and other trash in the west as well). This type of behavior is brutal no matter where it takes place, and it takes place everywhere. For many here to suggest that Thai men are more prone to this type of behavior than others is just stupid. I'm not making excuses for the Thai people involved in this incident but to link this type of behavior to all Thai men or all Thai people is ludicrous. It happens in my own country and in the home countries of the rest of the old, white people who frequent this site.There are bad apples everywhere. Now, what the criminal justice system here does with the case is another story. Thailand has many problems for which constructive criticism is called for, but there is a group of trolls on this site that just hate the country and the people. If you hate the country and the people, leave the country, stop visiting, and leave this site as your hatefulness is not helpful.

Not matter what place?

Are you sure?

I thinks not any place few look few weak mad dog beat a defenseless old women, and many dozens of people look at it?

I can bet on this is.

I am show few place in planet and can do prank.. if its happened as in Thailand( on this is topic) even in ONE place i Show you take my bet..

Its Fine?

PS

I am not hate Thailand and Thai people

But i am honestly ..

And I amand do not hide head and say: it can happen anywhere !!!

Incidentally drop in crime is one of the factors is the inevitability of punishment. no matter it is the law (the arrest of a prison sentence) or by society (mob beating).

[ardokano]

Language problem....?

Do you mean this thread or why the tourists assaulted the Thais or?

I saw a young Thai male kicking granny in the face, while she was trying to sit up.

What did you see to justify what I saw?

Granny getting kicked in the face wasn't the worst thing in the video, not sure why people are fixating on that, for me it was her son having his head stamped on repeatedly when he was already unconscious.

Granny did more than anyone else to cause the brawl, she was the reason her family were seriously assaulted, she didn't even show any concern for her son when he went down twice or for her husband when he got knocked down, she was too busy brawling and running her mouth off...I'm guessing this wasn't grannies first rodeo, I imagine this has played out many times before when her and hubby have been out drinking, it didn't look like hubby's first time to sneak punch someone either.

Granny getting kicked in the face? ...som nam na as they say!

so you accept kicking old women becouse she agrue with about you pushing herson/husband?

Bravo..

Edited May 3, 2016 by ardokano

[Brizo]

so you accept kicking old women becouse she agrue with about you pushing herson/husband?

Bravo..

Your words not mine(I can spell) .. she didn't get thumped for arguing she got thumped for being violent and starting a brawl.

Her son fell because he tripped over his own leg .. not because he was pushed by a Thai.

But, maybe it would easier if you just read the thread properly(ergo watch the full video carefully) .. as this has already been covered ad nauseam.

News Flash:

If you use violence to settle arguments then one day you will get your ass kicked(or even your face) as a result....regardless of your gender/age!

Edited May 3, 2016 by Brizo

[sambum]

One thing that is typical and not surprising is how people nearby were watching arms folded. I seen it before in Thailand. When someone is in distress and attacked its a case of "nothing to do with me"

And thats true of women and children attacked. Says something about the place!

I was with a friend a few years ago on motor bikes, and he was riding ahead of me and swerved to avoid a cat on the road. The bike jackknifed and he ended up bouncing down the road like a rag doll. Lots of Thais just looking on with disdain, and it was a farang Dive Shop owner who came to help, took my friend to hospital in his truck, even waiting until he was treated and released, and took him home - only minor injuries, but it could have been much worse, and the Thais couldn't have cared less.

Thais generally don't help anyone who happens to be the victim of a road accident, nothing to do with being Thai or not. They don't go up to the victim to check out what skin colour he/she has before deciding whether to help or not. Most people wouldn't even assume that a foreigner would be involved in an accident - in any given location the assumption (and the reality) is that you have a lot of Thais and maybe a small number of foreigners.

Thais don't help because they don't want to be accused of doing something wrong or something they didn't do. Whether that's reasonable or not, I dunno. However, I've witnessed accidents unfold in front of me and rarely did anyone do anything other than call an ambulance.

And even then, they're probably reluctant to do that in case they get charged for it!

[Mudcrab]

If the old bat had kept her hands to herself she wouldn't have been smacked, hope she learnt the lesson not to punch people in the face.

And to add to this...she might be an old lady ...but compare her to what you see here and she could have easily been mistaken, and probably was, for a man. Certainly acted like a man with her initial aggressiveness.

Sorry I can't accept anyone showing aggressiveness then pulling the little old lady pensioner card when she gets slapped back.

Kicks to the head are just plain wrong and always have been but the world has moved on from when i was young. Witness the recent trouble in Cologne.....not kicks to the head....jumping on peoples heads.

[Blue Muton]

I can remember seeing this type of Hooliganism before, in Europe, committed by English soccer (excuse me football) fans (let's not forget skin heads and other trash in the west as well). This type of behavior is brutal no matter where it takes place, and it takes place everywhere. For many here to suggest that Thai men are more prone to this type of behavior than others is just stupid. I'm not making excuses for the Thai people involved in this incident but to link this type of behavior to all Thai men or all Thai people is ludicrous. It happens in my own country and in the home countries of the rest of the old, white people who frequent this site.There are bad apples everywhere. Now, what the criminal justice system here does with the case is another story. Thailand has many problems for which constructive criticism is called for, but there is a group of trolls on this site that just hate the country and the people. If you hate the country and the people, leave the country, stop visiting, and leave this site as your hatefulness is not helpful.

Nonsense, why post off topic rubbish on a subject that you know little or nothing about. English football hooligans have never gone around bashing old women, they tend to keep it among themselves.

Tell us where you were when you saw this.

And no, I am not nor ever have been a hooligan, football or other, but I have followed football for forty years across England, Wales and Europe.