London may elect first Muslim mayor, after ugly, 'dog-whistling' campaign

[johnatong]

In 20 years time the majority of the population in Europe will be muslims . Just my prediction.

So where are the millions and millions of non-muslims who currently live in europe going to disappear to?

If you care to look there are studies which demonstrate the low birth rate of 'Europeans' will result in their , overtime, being replaced by those with higher birthrates ie Muslim people !

Go and check fact !

[Grouse]

So. If white people go from majorities to minorities in their own country without any other countries "diversifying"...what is happening?

The Muslim countries are hell-bent on maintaining their ethnic and religious purity and their Sharia law while also being hell-bent on exporting their ways to us. All the while we are told that we are the bad guys if we don't allow this "diversity". We are called names such as racist and bigoted and Islamophobic and so on if we don't just let it happen without complaint. It's extremely one-sided.

Did I mention that some of these people are bloody mass killers of innocents? Did London learn nothing from the train bombing?

The UK is still 87% white, according to the most recent census, so talk of white people becoming a minority is simply nonsense - as is the rest of your post.

The deaths of those in the 'train bombing', as you call it, were a tragedy. To use them to score points in an argument like this is crass and insensitive in the extreme.

Birth rate?

[SoiBiker]

In 20 years time the majority of the population in Europe will be muslims . Just my prediction.

So where are the millions and millions of non-muslims who currently live in europe going to disappear to?

If you care to look there are studies which demonstrate the low birth rate of 'Europeans' will result in their , overtime, being replaced by those with higher birthrates ie Muslim people !

Go and check fact !

You don't have to look for them - they're posted online endlessly by paranoid islamophobes to back up the nonsense they come out with.

I wouldn't use the word 'fact' to describe them, though.

[nontabury]

That's true. 10 to 15 percent is significant. For example, that's about the percentage of African Americans in the U.S. and their votes are quite influential. In this election, they probably made the difference in the democratic party picking Clinton over Sanders.

And the relevance of this fasinating statistic to the elections of Londons mayor given the black americans referred to are not British citzens or one presumes residents of London which is in England ?

You forget,Obama thinks that the UK is the 51st state of the USA.

[nontabury]

In 20 years time the majority of the population in Europe will be muslims . Just my prediction.

So where are the millions and millions of non-muslims who currently live in europe going to disappear to?

Thailand.

[stevenl]

I am a member of the last generation to see London as an English city.

Cheers.

No. Just the last to think that English means White.

You seem to have attracted 3likes. 2 Aussies and I German. Yet no Brits,I wonder why? Not that there's anything wrong with that,after all as I pointed out earlier,England has been a divided country for quite some time. Many people talk about the north/south divide while others question,is London part of the U.K.

Your counting is off.

I was referring to post 181. At that point he had 3 likes. None of whom I believe are British.

I liked it way before you posted, and am Australian nor German.

How strange.

You previously claimed to be Dutch, which is why I had always made allowances for your extremely bad command of the English language, as highlighted perfectly in your above post.

I'll bet his English is superior to your Dutch!

And judging by his comprehension of the English language so is my English.

[Grouse]

Fact checker reckons UK Muslim birth rate at 3.5% compared to 1.8 for indigenous (2.1 required for replacement) Muslim population in UK grew from 3% to 5% between 2001 and 2011. They reckon birth rates will harmonise for multiple reasons. Finally, they doubt Muslims will reach 10% of UK population.

Hopefully, most will be in London and not Yorkshire (fat chance) but in general, reason to be cheerful!

[Grouse]

I am a member of the last generation to see London as an English city.

Cheers.

No. Just the last to think that English means White.

You seem to have attracted 3likes. 2 Aussies and I German. Yet no Brits,I wonder why? Not that there's anything wrong with that,after all as I pointed out earlier,England has been a divided country for quite some time. Many people talk about the north/south divide while others question,is London part of the U.K.

Your counting is off.

I was referring to post 181. At that point he had 3 likes. None of whom I believe are British.

I liked it way before you posted, and am Australian nor German.

How strange.

You previously claimed to be Dutch, which is why I had always made allowances for your extremely bad command of the English language, as highlighted perfectly in your above post.

I'll bet his English is superior to your Dutch!

And judging by his comprehension of the English language so is my English.

Your English is superior to your Dutch? Bully for you!

Edited May 8, 2016 by Grouse

[sirineou]

I feel you're overreacting. The mayor of London would surely be admitted. His position is a type of vetting. He's hardly ISIS.

It seems so many want to go to extremes such as banning Trump from the UK or assuming this mayor wouldn't be invited.

Trump (and I) are opposed to allowing immigrants of any stripe to flood across our borders without getting vetted and getting proper visas the normal way. It's normal and it's the law. It always has been and still is for most people, but the current administration refuses to enforce long standing immigration laws. We now have an unbelievable number of illegals in the US. I find that totally unacceptable.

I don't understand the OTT scenarios and what seems like panic over enforcing existing laws.

ThkU. I was at first going to respond to this but see you have. It is not entirely unfair to accuse Trump of this, but it is intentionally offered without context. The goal is clearly intelligent profiling, not banning; revising the sterilized DHS and DOJ terrorism texts and guidelines, not banning. The goal is deciding why the mafia always hangs out in little Italy, not banning. It is an expression of understanding that the Black Panthers do not hail from Groton, CT. The effort is to determine from which sources jihadist threats come.

Were it not for Obama's sterilizing and offering that islamic jihad is not islamic people would have a reference point. The effort to divorce the self evident from reality leads people to reach the very conclusion Trump has- soufflé has its origins in France!

A British mayor, duly elected and vetted by popular vote, would surely not suffer a ban (unlike the knee jerk reaction to free speech evidenced against Trump).

If America (indeed, the UK) cannot secure its borders as every other nation has/does in all of history, it may continue to exist, but not in a manner that is recognizable. Open borders, the pet of the darling left, is the problem. The millions pouring across the borders are only the symptom.

Good for you to explain Trump.because for a moment I thought he would discriminate against all Muslims , now that I know that he would only discriminate against the poor and the unimportant, I feel better.

This is what is refereed to as 'projection.' Taking our interior or politics and projecting into places it was not. Everything here is your post, your words, your inference, your projection. Its is divorced entirely from the posts above.

How is this taking it to places your discussion did not intent

Did you not mention selective profiling, only you called it "intelligent" ?

Remember, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig

The Muslim person that got elected mayor of London would be able to travel to the USA

but poor Muslim Joe Smo,would not. Isn't it that discriminating bases on position or wealth?

And let's talk about projection.Trump did not say anything about "vetted Muslims" he said Muslims.

I was Under the impression that the Visa process is the traveling to the US vetting process,

If vetting is your problem then perhaps the visa process should be reconsidered, and such consideration should include all, not just Muslims.

Are you not projecting what you wish he had said in to what he actually said.

So you can explain Trump, but I cant explain you?

[Koosdedooes]

That's true. 10 to 15 percent is significant. For example, that's about the percentage of African Americans in the U.S. and their votes are quite influential. In this election, they probably made the difference in the democratic party picking Clinton over Sanders.

And the relevance of this fasinating statistic to the elections of Londons mayor given the black americans referred to are not British citzens or one presumes residents of London which is in England ?

Duh. It was a reply to Morch's post asserting that 10 to 15 percent of a population can have major political implications. I gave a recent example of that. Morch was talking generally about the potential political impact of increasing Muslim population in any country, including the U.K. Cheerio.

He made no mention of "any" country, however he did mention Europe, so what is the relevance of your post citing Black Americans, in relation to Europe or the mayor of London old chap ?

[Jingthing]

The connection is obvious. In any democracy 15 percent of the population can have a massive electoral impact on how a nation is governed. I realize some Brits are feeling hostile to the U.S. now over Obama's very sensible and friendly advice regarding Brexit. In this case y'all ought to listen well to your big Yankee Daddy. Daddy knows best.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Jingthing

[simple1]

In 20 years time the majority of the population in Europe will be muslims . Just my prediction.

So where are the millions and millions of non-muslims who currently live in europe going to disappear to?

If you care to look there are studies which demonstrate the low birth rate of 'Europeans' will result in their , overtime, being replaced by those with higher birthrates ie Muslim people !

Go and check fact !

With relevance to the topic i.e. the UK, there has been exercises / analysis which predicts the Muslim population based upon current immigration polices / birth rates will likely stabilise at around 10% of the UK population. To be brief Muslim birth rates, especially in Western countries, dramatically lower when exposed to better economic conditions and medical services.

[SoiBiker]

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/europe/

[nontabury]

Fact checker reckons UK Muslim birth rate at 3.5% compared to 1.8 for indigenous (2.1 required for replacement) Muslim population in UK grew from 3% to 5% between 2001 and 2011. They reckon birth rates will harmonise for multiple reasons. Finally, they doubt Muslims will reach 10% of UK population.

Hopefully, most will be in London and not Yorkshire (fat chance) but in general, reason to be cheerful!

Not sure how these data and projections can be relied upon.

The estimates of the Muslim community in Spain have already been adjusted, they expect the 2030 projection will be reached in 2020. Germany has also seen a dramatic rise in the Muslim population,caused by Merkels invitation.

As for Yorkshire we already have Bradfordstan and other towns heavily populated with Muslim immigrants,while at the same time, areas represented by Cameron, Osbourne and crew, have not received any of these economic immigrants.

[simple1]

Actually a research organisation often quoted on this forum, Pew Research, has estimated the Muslims of Europe will reach about 10% of the total population by 2050. I guess the influx in 2014 / 2015 will increase the percentage by a few percent.

10%-15% of the population can play a very significant part in elections, especially if its voter turnout figures are higher than average. Europe will not have a Muslim majority anytime soon, but the influence of Muslim minorities will definitely increase. How much of an issue this would present is another matter.

True, but often manipulated by backroom negotiation for preferences allocation. Some may be interested in indication of UK Muslim voting preferences e.g. in 2014:

figures, released last year (2014), show 73 per cent of Muslims intend to vote Labour, compared to only 14.9 per cent intending to vote Conservative and 7.3 per cent Liberal Democrat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11573827/Christians-Jews-and-Muslims-at-the-general-election-which-parties-do-they-vote-for.html

[Koosdedooes]

The connection is obvious. In any democracy 15 percent of the population can have a massive electoral impact on how a nation is governed. I realize some Brits are feeling hostile to the U.S. now over Obama's very sensible and friendly advice regarding Brexit. In this case y'all ought to listen well to your big Yankee Daddy. Daddy knows best.

I am not British and have no hostility to the the US, so please stop trying to play victim, however i feel i must comment when members irrespective of the topic discussed attempt to hijack an interesting discussion and make it all about the US,Clinton,Hillary, Obma et al all the time

a quick count indicates there are at least 6 threads discussing the aforementioned..so one could discuss these people to their hearts desire in those threads among like minded people and let people discuss the topic in the OP...which is the new mayor of London without the contineous references to the US or US politians

[samran]

I am a member of the last generation to see London as an English city.

Cheers.

Is that what you say to impress the women?

[Jingthing]

Not playing the victim. Just was responding to a question on how it was relevant when a demographic reaches 10 to 15 percent in any democratic nation. This thread has touched quite a bit on British nativist concerns about the cultural and political changes that may come about with a rising Muslim demographic. Morch indeed made an excellent point that a demographic doesn't need to come even close to a majority to have a major political impact. I provided a U.S. example so sue me ... the point was this phenomenon can be universal anywhere.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Jingthing

[Henryford]

Goodbye London, it was nice knowing you.

[SgtRock]

Actually a research organisation often quoted on this forum, Pew Research, has estimated the Muslims of Europe will reach about 10% of the total population by 2050. I guess the influx in 2014 / 2015 will increase the percentage by a few percent.

10%-15% of the population can play a very significant part in elections, especially if its voter turnout figures are higher than average. Europe will not have a Muslim majority anytime soon, but the influence of Muslim minorities will definitely increase. How much of an issue this would present is another matter.

True, but often manipulated by backroom negotiation for preferences allocation. Some may be interested in indication of UK Muslim voting preferences e.g. in 2014:

figures, released last year (2014), show 73 per cent of Muslims intend to vote Labour, compared to only 14.9 per cent intending to vote Conservative and 7.3 per cent Liberal Democrat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11573827/Christians-Jews-and-Muslims-at-the-general-election-which-parties-do-they-vote-for.html

Judging by the amount of Labour Party members that have been suspended over the last 2 weeks for Anti - Semitism, that figure should surprise no-one.

[SoiBiker]

Goodbye London, it was nice knowing you.

If you think a Muslim mayor is going to destroy the place, you clearly didn't know London in the first place.

[sirineou]

In 20 years time the majority of the population in Europe will be muslims . Just my prediction.

So where are the millions and millions of non-muslims who currently live in europe going to disappear to?

I dont agree with Balo's statement but it is possible for a percentage to increase simply by changing the sum, nobody has to go leave.

So Muslims are reproducing at a higher rate than Christians, and are migrating to Europe at a higher rate than Christians , for obvious reasons. If this trend is to continue it is inevitable that their percentage will increase. This is a simple analysis that does not take in to account many other dynamics such as , assimilation, the growth of Atheism, etc etc

So there is the rule of 72 if you dont already know google "rule of 72"

How long will it take for a number to double , of course this rule assumes a constant growth percentage. and is useful for money earning a constant percentage interest, but it can be useful in this instance for approximations.

So if a population is growing by 8% (only an example,not saying Muslim pop. is growing by 8%) so if a population is growing by 8% , you divide 72/8=9

That population will double in 9 years

I hope this did not sound too didactic, It was not intended to be, I just find it interesting.

[SoiBiker]

In 20 years time the majority of the population in Europe will be muslims . Just my prediction.

So where are the millions and millions of non-muslims who currently live in europe going to disappear to?

I dont agree with Balo's statement but it is possible for a percentage to increase simply by changing the sum, nobody has to go leave.

So Muslims are reproducing at a higher rate than Christians, and are migrating to Europe at a higher rate than Christians , for obvious reasons. If this trend is to continue it is inevitable that their percentage will increase. This is a simple analysis that does not take in to account many other dynamics such as , assimilation, the growth of Atheism, etc etc

So there is the rule of 72 if you dont already know google "rule of 72"

How long will it take for a number to double , of course this rule assumes a constant growth percentage. and is useful for money earning a constant percentage interest, but it can be useful in this instance for approximations.

So if a population is growing by 8% (only an example,not saying Muslim pop. is growing by 8%) so if a population is growing by 8% , you divide 72/8=9

That population will double in 9 years

I hope this did not sound too didactic, It was not intended to be, I just find it interesting.

A percentage change, yes. But a muslim majority within 20 years?

[Grouse]

Fact checker reckons UK Muslim birth rate at 3.5% compared to 1.8 for indigenous (2.1 required for replacement) Muslim population in UK grew from 3% to 5% between 2001 and 2011. They reckon birth rates will harmonise for multiple reasons. Finally, they doubt Muslims will reach 10% of UK population.

Hopefully, most will be in London and not Yorkshire (fat chance) but in general, reason to be cheerful!

Not sure how these data and projections can be relied upon.

The estimates of the Muslim community in Spain have already been adjusted, they expect the 2030 projection will be reached in 2020. Germany has also seen a dramatic rise in the Muslim population,caused by Merkels invitation.

As for Yorkshire we already have Bradfordstan and other towns heavily populated with Muslim immigrants,while at the same time, areas represented by Cameron, Osbourne and crew, have not received any of these economic immigrants.

I was being facetious about Yorkshire. Surprised I have to point that out to you!

[sirineou]

In 20 years time the majority of the population in Europe will be muslims . Just my prediction.

So where are the millions and millions of non-muslims who currently live in europe going to disappear to?

I dont agree with Balo's statement but it is possible for a percentage to increase simply by changing the sum, nobody has to go leave.

So Muslims are reproducing at a higher rate than Christians, and are migrating to Europe at a higher rate than Christians , for obvious reasons. If this trend is to continue it is inevitable that their percentage will increase. This is a simple analysis that does not take in to account many other dynamics such as , assimilation, the growth of Atheism, etc etc

So there is the rule of 72 if you dont already know google "rule of 72"

How long will it take for a number to double , of course this rule assumes a constant growth percentage. and is useful for money earning a constant percentage interest, but it can be useful in this instance for approximations.

So if a population is growing by 8% (only an example,not saying Muslim pop. is growing by 8%) so if a population is growing by 8% , you divide 72/8=9

That population will double in 9 years

I hope this did not sound too didactic, It was not intended to be, I just find it interesting.

A percentage change, yes. But a muslim majority within 20 years?

I agree with you

a majority would be hyperbole at best

[SgtRock]

I dont agree with Balo's statement but it is possible for a percentage to increase simply by changing the sum, nobody has to go leave.

So Muslims are reproducing at a higher rate than Christians, and are migrating to Europe at a higher rate than Christians , for obvious reasons. If this trend is to continue it is inevitable that their percentage will increase. This is a simple analysis that does not take in to account many other dynamics such as , assimilation, the growth of Atheism, etc etc

So there is the rule of 72 if you dont already know google "rule of 72"

How long will it take for a number to double , of course this rule assumes a constant growth percentage. and is useful for money earning a constant percentage interest, but it can be useful in this instance for approximations.

So if a population is growing by 8% (only an example,not saying Muslim pop. is growing by 8%) so if a population is growing by 8% , you divide 72/8=9

That population will double in 9 years

I hope this did not sound too didactic, It was not intended to be, I just find it interesting.

You might find this interesting. It is an analysis of the 2011 consensus, although it is now 5 years out of date.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/11/muslim-population-england-wales-nearly-doubles-10-years

The constituency graph on the left hand side is interesting and shows areas in England that have a Muslim population % of between 45 & 55 %.

The figures show that Muslims make up 20% or more of the electorate in 26 constituencies and live in all local authority areas in England and Wales. “There has been a spreading-out effect and this has accelerated in the past 10 years,” said Sundas Ali, a sociologist at Oxford University

I agree that the UK will not have a Muslim majority in the next 20 years. There are areas that currently have over a 50% Muslim majority, if the current demographs continue, at some stage the UK will become a Muslim majority Country.

[arjunadawn]

ThkU. I was at first going to respond to this but see you have. It is not entirely unfair to accuse Trump of this, but it is intentionally offered without context. The goal is clearly intelligent profiling, not banning; revising the sterilized DHS and DOJ terrorism texts and guidelines, not banning. The goal is deciding why the mafia always hangs out in little Italy, not banning. It is an expression of understanding that the Black Panthers do not hail from Groton, CT. The effort is to determine from which sources jihadist threats come.

Were it not for Obama's sterilizing and offering that islamic jihad is not islamic people would have a reference point. The effort to divorce the self evident from reality leads people to reach the very conclusion Trump has- soufflé has its origins in France!

A British mayor, duly elected and vetted by popular vote, would surely not suffer a ban (unlike the knee jerk reaction to free speech evidenced against Trump).

If America (indeed, the UK) cannot secure its borders as every other nation has/does in all of history, it may continue to exist, but not in a manner that is recognizable. Open borders, the pet of the darling left, is the problem. The millions pouring across the borders are only the symptom.

Good for you to explain Trump.because for a moment I thought he would discriminate against all Muslims , now that I know that he would only discriminate against the poor and the unimportant, I feel better.

This is what is refereed to as 'projection.' Taking our interior or politics and projecting into places it was not. Everything here is your post, your words, your inference, your projection. Its is divorced entirely from the posts above.

How is this taking it to places your discussion did not intent

Did you not mention selective profiling, only you called it "intelligent" ?

Remember, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig

The Muslim person that got elected mayor of London would be able to travel to the USA

but poor Muslim Joe Smo,would not. Isn't it that discriminating bases on position or wealth?

And let's talk about projection.Trump did not say anything about "vetted Muslims" he said Muslims.

I was Under the impression that the Visa process is the traveling to the US vetting process,

If vetting is your problem then perhaps the visa process should be reconsidered, and such consideration should include all, not just Muslims.

Are you not projecting what you wish he had said in to what he actually said.

So you can explain Trump, but I cant explain you?

I do not have the gymnastics to either possess such reasoning nor to follow it here. It is deriving entirely from you, not me. I have made no class comments and I generally do not focus my political lens through a class-only filter.

I like you. We get along. I cannot for the life of me follow the reasoning here, try as I might. The post above totally teases your own politics from my own comments, and our politics are entirely different. I have never said nor implied any of the things you suggest above.

I do like your ending though; it is sharp and very funny. You may be explaining me in your perception, but I have made zero comments regarding muslims of any class or wealth, just leaders who are muslim. I only commented that a Five Eyes Ally elected a representative and by that mechanism he ipso facto has been vetted and would not likely suffer entry problems. You may have missed the pretext but it was based on extrapolating Trump's only end in banning anything was to force 'profiling.' Factually, speaking, this further abuses your reasoning as the vast majority of the greater jihadi threats are not from the poor and uneducated.

The US would of course background [him] further as we do everyone (leaders included), but he would absolutely be excluded as surely as the radical hatemonger and occasional embassy hostage taker M. Ahmadinejad was, or 'I'm gonna pitch a tent in central park Mohamar." I am only going back and forth with you on this because it is... you . There is really not much here for posting. Something must have been misunderstood earlier. Wishing you a great weekend.

[Naam]

That's right. Whites are fleeing London en masse and being replaced by Moslem refugees. That's why the price of real estate in London has gone astronomically high. Because of all those dark skinned filthy-rich Pakistanis and other assorted Moslems..

if this is not irony then it's clear that you've lost much more than a password

[johnatong]

In 20 years time the majority of the population in Europe will be muslims . Just my prediction.

So where are the millions and millions of non-muslims who currently live in europe going to disappear to?

I dont agree with Balo's statement but it is possible for a percentage to increase simply by changing the sum, nobody has to go leave.

So Muslims are reproducing at a higher rate than Christians, and are migrating to Europe at a higher rate than Christians , for obvious reasons. If this trend is to continue it is inevitable that their percentage will increase. This is a simple analysis that does not take in to account many other dynamics such as , assimilation, the growth of Atheism, etc etc

So there is the rule of 72 if you dont already know google "rule of 72"

How long will it take for a number to double , of course this rule assumes a constant growth percentage. and is useful for money earning a constant percentage interest, but it can be useful in this instance for approximations.

So if a population is growing by 8% (only an example,not saying Muslim pop. is growing by 8%) so if a population is growing by 8% , you divide 72/8=9

That population will double in 9 years

I hope this did not sound too didactic, It was not intended to be, I just find it interesting.

A percentage change, yes. But a muslim majority within 20 years?

Muslim populations in Europe are increasing.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/

It will not be long before these populations are of a size which will permit them to exercise major influence over matters of both policy and politics. Some would argue that that tipping point has already been reached in many areas with the emergence of no-go areas and the (illegal?) imposition of Sharia law and Sharia courts.

[thai3]

Khan is a Muslim, then a Pakistani and lastly British, that's the way he and many others see themselves, unfortunately.