Senepol Cattle?

[nutterz64]

Does anyone know of anyone breeding Senepol Cattle in Thailand? I am interested in buying a few heifers for crossbreeding.

Cheers

Peter

[kickstart]

Senepol cattle ,a new breed to me , a look at Google they look a good breed ,that could well in Thailand ,to my knowledge there is no Senepol cattle in Thailand.

The next best breed similar to Senepol would be the Beefmaster breed and Drought master ,Beefmaster is popular in Thailand ,there are a few big herds about the county

Drought master cattle have been in Thailand a few years , I have had some semen on some of my beef cows , they do ok ,they was herd near me up to a few years ago ,but I heard they sold up ,one problem was finding new bloodlines for breeding .

The only way to breed Senepol cattle in Thailand ,would be to import the semen ,and start a breeding program .

[nutterz64]

Thanks kickstart, I was hoping to hear from you. Yes, I think the Droughtmaster would do well here. What I am planning to do is cross Senepol with Lowline blood to produce a smaller sized animal with good performance characteristics and that can thrive in this environment up here in the north east. I know the Thais love big cattle and thus the penchant for Braham, Brazil lines but I firmly believe that small properties should be looking at smaller breeds with better carcass yields.

I am only wanting to start small and see if I can make a go of it so importing live animals and all the risks associated with that causes me to pause. I think I can still achieve a similar result with local Droughtmaster cows and imported lowline semen. I could use local semen but I do not believe there are any red lowine genetics here.... only black.

I will now start the search for Droughtmaster heifers/cows here...

Cheers.

[kickstart]

Thanks kickstart, I was hoping to hear from you. Yes, I think the Droughtmaster would do well here. What I am planning to do is cross Senepol with Lowline blood to produce a smaller sized animal with good performance characteristics and that can thrive in this environment up here in the north east. I know the Thais love big cattle and thus the penchant for Braham, Brazil lines but I firmly believe that small properties should be looking at smaller breeds with better carcass yields.

I am only wanting to start small and see if I can make a go of it so importing live animals and all the risks associated with that causes me to pause. I think I can still achieve a similar result with local Droughtmaster cows and imported lowline semen. I could use local semen but I do not believe there are any red lowine genetics here.... only black.

I will now start the search for Droughtmaster heifers/cows here...

Cheers.

I could not agree with you more ,the Thai love of big cattle is beyond me ,it would be ok if they were on a proper diet ,then they would do ok , but only grazing hedge bottoms ,and supplemented with rice straw ,is no way to rear cattle .I know the financial incentives are not they for the average Thai cattle farmer to rear good quality cattle ,some do ,and do it well for the average cattle farm it is not easy ,main problem is cash flow ,not a lot of cash for long term investment .

I can see where you are going ,and I wish you luck ,but have you thought of Angus crosses ,or more so Brangus ,they are not a big breed ,and cattle and semen is available in Thailand ,I have 2 of my beef cows in calf this year to Brangus bulls ,one cow is a Thai native ,small hardy thing ,I would say a Brangus calf should do well.

I have seen a CP poster selling red Angus semen ,and I have seen a photograph of a red Brangus heifer ,for sale 35 000 Baht .

[nutterz64]

Thanks kickstart, I was hoping to hear from you. Yes, I think the Droughtmaster would do well here. What I am planning to do is cross Senepol with Lowline blood to produce a smaller sized animal with good performance characteristics and that can thrive in this environment up here in the north east. I know the Thais love big cattle and thus the penchant for Braham, Brazil lines but I firmly believe that small properties should be looking at smaller breeds with better carcass yields.

I am only wanting to start small and see if I can make a go of it so importing live animals and all the risks associated with that causes me to pause. I think I can still achieve a similar result with local Droughtmaster cows and imported lowline semen. I could use local semen but I do not believe there are any red lowine genetics here.... only black.

I will now start the search for Droughtmaster heifers/cows here...

Cheers.

I could not agree with you more ,the Thai love of big cattle is beyond me ,it would be ok if they were on a proper diet ,then they would do ok , but only grazing hedge bottoms ,and supplemented with rice straw ,is no way to rear cattle .I know the financial incentives are not they for the average Thai cattle farmer to rear good quality cattle ,some do ,and do it well for the average cattle farm it is not easy ,main problem is cash flow ,not a lot of cash for long term investment .

I can see where you are going ,and I wish you luck ,but have you thought of Angus crosses ,or more so Brangus ,they are not a big breed ,and cattle and semen is available in Thailand ,I have 2 of my beef cows in calf this year to Brangus bulls ,one cow is a Thai native ,small hardy thing ,I would say a Brangus calf should do well.

I have seen a CP poster selling red Angus semen ,and I have seen a photograph of a red Brangus heifer ,for sale 35 000 Baht .

Yes, the Brangus is certainly a good option. And if I can find the red genetics then I could be on a winner,

I have sometimes considered using small native heifers but really don't know anything about them. Calving, fertility, milk production, growth rates, FCR etc, I assume that they are very hardy. but that is all I know.

[kickstart]

Hi nuterz64

The 2 photos are of some of my cattle ,the cow is my Thai native ,if she is Thai I do not know ,she has a hole in her right ear ,which makes me think come into Thailand from Burma or Cambodia ,when cattle come into Thailand at the borders they are registered by the Thai Department of Livestock Development and given an plastic ear tag ,and a foot and mouth vaccine I would say she lost her tag ,she is 7 months in calf with her third calf ,first calf our Angus cross bull served her ,last year and this year she was A I ed,both times held first service ,this year she is in calf to a Brangus, so far no calving problems .

As for Calving, fertility, milk production, growth rates, FCR ,that depends on the feed and management .for us fertility has not been a problem, FCR is to do with breeding but if the diet is low on energy and protein ,you will not get the required weight gains .

The photo of the cow and calf ,the cow is a Thai Native x Brahman , the calf is a Angus ,the semen coming from America, he is 5 months old , I do not think he will be that big , but if he can weigh 250 kg at 12-14 months we will be happy .

If you look at Yenwar Thailand on Google, they are a company selling dairy equipment and A I equipment ,and bull semen in Bangkok ,look at they Angus team "Embossed is a red Angus , put him on to a red Brahman ,you should get a red Brangus.

[nutterz64]

Thanks again kickstart. I like the look of that calf. Can certainly see the Angus influence. Good muscle development at only 5 months. I found out yesterday there is someone not far from me (near Nong Khai) that is breeding Aussie Brahmans. No idea what kind of money he is wanting but make a visit to him shortly.

Yes, I had found the Yenwar site from a previous post you had made on another thread. They and Pornchaiinter look interesting. I am familiar with the later due to some dealing with them with our pig farm.

have just planted 3 rai of Napier, 1 rai of Lucerne and 2 rai of something else that I am not sure about. Papa got the seed for free and then planted them for me before I could find out exactly what they are. He assures me that it is good for cattle but I will wait and see what I get. Fun to have 2 rai mystery grass....

We finished building the cow shed a couple of days ago so now waiting for fodder to grow and then buy a couple of heifers to kick things off.

cheers

[kickstart]

Those photos I posted ,the cow and calf ,believe it or not they are walking on my pasture ,when it will green up I do not know .we have had 85 mm of rain this month so far ,if that was the UK ,they would probably be floods everywhere,here no effect.

Looking at my old records ,this time last year we where making Nappier grass silage ,this year ,we are buying in maize silage , run out of our own silage do not know when we will make any more silage ,been a difficult year so far ,and it is only May ,but that is farming for you .

We had plans to expand , buy in a few more heifers ,use Angus bulls ,never a problem selling them , but that is well on hold ,can not afford to buy in all the feed ,and still make some money .

Aussie Brahmans ,they sound interesting ,if they are red he will be wanting some money , the white Brahmans tend to be a bit cheaper ,but I am like you and have a liking for red cattle ,that Red Angus bull at Yenwa looks very tempting, 1 straw is about 500 Baht .

I would say the free grass seed could well be Pupal Guinie, if he got the seed from a farmers meeting ,probably would have been your local DLD office .

TV member Micale Hare wrot a pice about DLD grass seed , a while ago ,not allways the most fertie of grass seed , but time will tell.

[cobbler]

Kickstart been reading your posts. How many total breeders do you have? Do u sell weiners or grow them out to 18months or so?
Maybe the thais run mostly brahmans as they r maybe suited well to this area. Can get decent weight withought overcapitalizing on expensive feeds. Or maybe it is as u say in many cases,lack of cashflow.
Interested to hear from u please.
Cheers cobbler

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[kickstart]

Hi cobbler

At this time  we only have  5 breeders ,you asked a very  good question about feed we feed a 14% mixed feed ,not in pellet  form  ,at about 2 ,2.5 kg/head/day ,plus brewers grains  at about 2.5-3 kg/head /day ,plus Napier grass silage ,and now about our main forage feed the tree legume  Leucaena Leucocephala ,or Gratin ,in Thai ,which we cut now every day ,which this year is getting more and more difficult  to find ,and the hot season is not upon us yet .

Concentrate is 7 baht/kg,  brewers grains  are about 2 baht /kg ,but if you take in to account that  grains are only 28% dry matter ,on a  DM  basis  they are about the same price as the 14% concentrate  grass  silage,  plastic bags  and tractor diesel costs  and fertilizer costs ,a 25kg bag costs us  about 15-20 baht  bag ,labour  costs  difficult to work out ,plus minerals ,and salt blocks .

Brought in feeds last year cost us about  52 000 silage about 6 000 baht ,

On this  diet  our 5 cows gave us 5 calves we sold 3 for 79 000 baht  2  1 year old ,one we still have one  ,one died I was in the  uk at the time , and our  useless vet  did not diagnose pneumonia   right ,he said snake bite ,so if we sold all 5  we would have got  over 100 000  baht , not a bad income from 6 rie ,better than crops ,but ,and a big but ,labour  costs are high .

As for weight 2 where 200 -220 kg  , 1 bull and 1 heifer  Angus  x ,the other was a Brahman heifer  18 months old  about 300 kg ,and 2 months in calf .

I also work ,so a lot of the time work , sort of subs the farm.

I would like more land ,but we are boxed in ,and with land prices still high ,and that includes  renting ,finding  more land in looking very un  likely ,with out traveling a few km to some rented land ,which we do not need .

[cobbler]

Hi kickstart,
Thanks so much for your prompy reply.
I have been diligently reading everything i can about yhis cattle subject. Mostly your knowledge.
Im familiar with farming in oz. BUT. The 1st thing you learn when doing things in tropical climate,is. Forget everything u think u know and start again.
Is there money to be made? From what i can gather you can maybe run 2 per rai. Correct me if im wrong. If so is this including dry season if silage was made and stored?
Would the profit margin,in your experience be roughly 70%?
If the soil was prepared and planted down to the good grasses ,put pui/fertilizer on it . Give urea or salt blocks or both. Is this in your opinion enough protein?
I was reading your comments on the comparison between u feeding extra pelets ect , and your neighbour just feeding grass. Free range style. Do you feel he is not puting fertilizer and have good grasses? If not is this the difference between having the cow come into season at more regular intervals?
Cut and carry napier. As in a feedlot system.Would this increase the running capacity to 3 breeders per rai? If not ,in your opinion how many maybe?
Answer is. Drum rollll......... how long is a piece of string.bing.
Appreciate your ideas as wife and i are keen to do cattle if we think we can make a bit. But its got to be worth it. If not will just go buy rubber trees down in bangsaphan where her family are.
Love to come see what you are doing
Cheers Cobbler


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[Paul Mennick]

Hi There,

 

Just got hooked up with this site after doing a search for senepol in thailand.  We exported some embryos from California to a farm near Khon Kaen a couple of years before the coup; I understand they got one bull and 3 cows on the ground.  We had Castle Nugent stock; first senepol in USA west of Texas, and had started on a re-order of 30 more embryos and hen the coup put an end to that. I aAm visiting in Feb/March and am trying to track them down to see how they are doing.  Would also like to see any cattle shows going on in the northeast at that time if anyone can give me any leads..........

[kickstart]

l Did not know they was any  Senepol cattle in Thailand ,and thay  where breed  by  ET.

As for cattle shows, the  big Thai beef show is held at Pattaya, this year it was in April ,most  Thai beef breeds were  there, predominantly  Indo-Brazil.

As for Issan cattle shows .not certain , Khon  Kaen , has a  big show ,not certain  if any cattle  will be there ,looking at Thai  Google, stumbled upon a cattle show at Yasaton ,held in April ,Korat  has a big show , again not certain if any cattle will be they  .

Best thing wait until the new year if you can  go in to Thai  Google , dates  and places of cattle shows  should be there

[Paul Mennick]

I am currently doing horse breeding work in West Australia, but will be visiting northeastern Thailand late Feb and early March; am interested in meeting up with any cattle or pig breeders, regardless of breed, to find out more about markets, feeds, breeding programs, genetics, problems breeders have, availability of vaccines and dewormers, etc.  I have specialized in veterinary reproduction for over 30 years, and do everything from breeding soundness exams to freezing semen, embryo transfer, plus import/export work.  I raise Senepol and a few Jerseys in California; have done consulting work all over (Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua, Fiji, Philippines, Australia, New Zealand etc.).  I plan on visiting Khon Kaen Uni and hopefully the farm I sent Senepol embryos to years ago, and of course any shows that happen to occur the 2 weeks I'm there are great ways to see a lot of animals and meet new people.  Best way to communicate is by email:

[email protected]  Thanks!