Obama lifts arms ban in his first visit to Vietnam

[webfact]

Obama lifts arms ban in his first visit to Vietnam
FOSTER KLUG, Associated Press

HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — U.S. President Barack Obama on Monday lifted a decades-old arms export embargo for Vietnam during his first visit to the communist country, looking to bolster a government seen as a crucial, though flawed partner even as he pushes for better human rights from the one-party state.

Obama announced the full removal of the embargo at a news conference, saying the move was intended to step toward normalizing relations with the former war enemy and to eliminate a "lingering vestige of the Cold War."

"At this stage both sides have developed a level of trust and cooperation," Obama said, adding that he expected deepening cooperation between the two nation's militaries.

Obama is seeking to strike this balance with Vietnam amid Chinese efforts to strengthen claims to disputed territory in the South China Sea, one of the world's most important waterways.

Lifting the arms embargo will be a psychological boost for Vietnam's leaders as they look to counter an increasingly aggressive China, but there may not be a big jump in sales. Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang thanked Obama for lifting the embargo.

U.S. lawmakers and activists had urged the president to press the communist leadership for greater freedoms before granting it. Vietnam holds about 100 political prisoners and there have been more detentions this year.

The United States partially lifted the embargo in 2014, but Vietnam wanted full access as it tries to deal with China's assertive land reclamation and military construction in nearby seas.

Vietnam has not bought anything, but removing the remaining restrictions shows relations are fully normalized and opens the way to deeper security cooperation.

After three days in Vietnam, Obama heads to Japan for an international summit and a visit to Hiroshima, where he will be the first sitting president to visit the site of the first atomic bomb attack.

He arrived in Hanoi, the capital, late Sunday, making him the third sitting president to visit the country since the end of the war. Four decades after the fall of Saigon, now called Ho Chi Minh City, and two decades after President Bill Clinton restored relations with the nation, Obama is eager to upgrade relations with an emerging power whose rapidly expanding middle class beckons as a promising market for U.S. goods and an offset to China's growing strength.

Obama was greeted Monday by Quang at the Presidential Palace. Obama congratulated Vietnam for making "extraordinary progress." He said he hopes the visit will show a continued interest in strengthening ties in the years to come.

Obama will make the case for stronger commercial and security ties, including approval of the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Trade agreement that is stalled in Congress and facing strong opposition from the 2016 presidential candidates.

The United States is eager to boost trade with a fast-growing middle class in Vietnam that is expected to double by 2020. That would mean knocking down auto, food and machine tariffs to get more U.S. products into Vietnam.

In Japan, Obama will attend a summit of the Group of Seven industrialized nations, where the uncertain global economy will be a top concern. They'll also grapple with a full array of world challenges, including the fight against the Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria and the refugee crisis in Europe.

Obama will finish his trip in Hiroshima, where the U.S. dropped the atomic bomb that killed 140,000 people, ushering in the nuclear age seven decades ago. Another bomb killed 70,000 in Nagasaki three days later.

It will be a moment to reflect on the devastating costs of war and to try to give new impetus to the call for a nuclear-free world that Obama issued seven years ago in his first year as president. He has faced criticism, however, that his mere presence at the site of the a-bomb explosion could be viewed as apology for an act that many Americans see as justified.

___

AP writer Nancy Benac contributed to this story from Hanoi.


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-05-23

[canopus1969]

Just as Vietnam places an order for Boeing jets

[Jingthing]

I just watched the press conference in Hanoi with Obama and Quang.

Obama handled himself beautifully, as Americans have come to expect from him, as he's destined to be seen as one of the greatest American presidents, as most European leaders already recognize.

I found myself imagining (in horror) trump being in the same press conference. Of course he could handle a prepared opening statement, but it's the questions from the press that I don't think he could ever handle diplomatically.

Obviously, relations between the USA and Vietnam are still a sensitive matter. trump doesn't do sensitive. Hopefully, that will never happen.

Again, good work, Obama, in upgrading the relations.

[AgMech Cowboy]

What applies to Cuba, applies to Vietnam. Obama is a show boat trying to justify his Noble Peace prize. The truth of the matter is that Senator John McCain laid the ground work for lifting the embargo and sanctions on his trip in 2014.

The following taken from an article featured on the website, "The Hill".

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/227442-can-obama-lift-cuba-embargo-without-congress

"Obama can’t repeal legislation enforcing the embargo without action by Congress.

“Fundamentally, the embargo is law, and without Congress’s backing, the heart of U.S. economic sanctions will remain in place,” said Mark Lagon, an adjunct senior fellow for human rights with the Council on Foreign Relations.

"And Kavulich said there are limits to Obama’s actions.

“If the president is now going to expand what people can do, when they go down there, and how many people can go down there, is he essentially ending the embargo? No, there’s still a lot he can’t do,” he said.

"But through regulations, Obama can chip away at the effectiveness of the sanctions, making it easier for people to travel or trade with Cuba.

"Some experts on Cuba-U.S. relations argue that Obama might have an unimpeded path toward fundamentally changing the embargoes, even if Congress doesn’t lift a finger.

"Robert Muse, a Cuban legal expert, argued in a recent article that the president’s ability to alter or rescind the embargo is “essentially unfettered.”

"The Trading with the Enemy Act, which provides the basis for the embargo, effectively gives the president the power to put in place and maintain economic sanctions against hostile nations.

"Muse contends that, since the implementation of the trade embargo is done by a host of regulations, the president has extremely broad power to do away with them. After all, it was Kennedy who prohibited U.S. exports to Cuba, meaning Obama is “just as free” to rescind it, he wrote.

"But Obama could face a number of hurdles with a Republican House and Senate, where some members are warning of a challenge."

[Jingthing]

Blah, blah, blah.

We're all well aware that Obama continues to face obnoxious obstructionist opposition. Plus it's an election year, and yes, Hillary Clinton is running to be the third Obama term. Anything NEW to share?

[Sydebolle]

"Vietnam has not bought anything" - what do you expect if the supplies come from a country which killed millions of their people? I - for one - never saw a Vietnamese threat at an American border. The Yankees were never supposed to be in Indochina. Officially fighting communism it might be noteworthy that the biggest creditor to the US is ...... the Peoples Republic of China; to the best of my limited knowledge a communist country.

​Obama runs around like a headless chicken and attending lame duck summits in the departure lounge of power. How godforsaken arrogant to "remove" the sanctions and embargoes; it takes Asian wisdom and skills not to spit and vomit. But 43 years ago the Vietnamese proved their superiority in character, Le Tuc Pho refused the Peace Nobel Prize 1973 while Kissinger, never accused of genocide nor faced the bench - accepted it.

We've learnt absolutely nothing; tell the Amis to go home and get their house in order; Asia, Europe and Africa can sort out their own way without what today is still called "imperialists" by certain Indochinese governments. And this, to make it crystal clear, refers to the official USA seated in Washington DC and not to the countless American friends of mine who are likewise sick and tired of their country's leadership.

[Jingthing]

The upgraded relationship is good for both countries.

[ggt]

Obami...had to do some'um...dem dare Chinese and Russians were making too much money from de Vietnamese...time to stop dat!

[Jingthing]

Obami...had to do some'um...dem dare Chinese and Russians were making too much money from de Vietnamese...time to stop dat!

What sort of speech pattern are you mocking there? Surely not Obama's.

[Norvid]

Anything but war is welcome worldwide and it doesn't matter who initiate that. People need stability and peace however, if some religious leaders praying on their flock's stupidity and teach jihad, they should be simply eliminated without mercy. Capital punishment ! Most people are good but only derailed by those preachers of false assumptions and teaching.

Anyway, credit to Obama.

[Jingthing]

From the U.S. POV, I don't really see a downside to upgraded relations with Vietnam. Can't speak for the Vietnamese side.

[Slickrick]

I new someone was going to call him "one of the greatest American presidents".

[arjunadawn]

I think Obama is correct. I think this act is wise and also a serious telegraph. This may be the single diplomatic coup for Obama.

As the issue had little to do with damaging America's image in the world, or motivating jihad, or alienating friends, it was hardly a difficult choice for Obama.

IMO, this should have been done when China started moving barges and building islands. But leading from behind demands after actions not calculation.

[ggt]

Obami...had to do some'um...dem dare Chinese and Russians were making too much money from de Vietnamese...time to stop dat!

What sort of speech pattern are you mocking there? Surely not Obama's.

I am attempting to reach the general unemployed uneducated unconcerned population...

[Freakin Musashi]

It's obviously meant to send a message to China, and to help the SE Asian "Co-prosperity Sphere" to grow a spine.

Perhaps China will discover how much it peed in its own soup.

[ilostmypassword]

"Vietnam has not bought anything" - what do you expect if the supplies come from a country which killed millions of their people? I - for one - never saw a Vietnamese threat at an American border. The Yankees were never supposed to be in Indochina. Officially fighting communism it might be noteworthy that the biggest creditor to the US is ...... the Peoples Republic of China; to the best of my limited knowledge a communist country.

​Obama runs around like a headless chicken and attending lame duck summits in the departure lounge of power. How godforsaken arrogant to "remove" the sanctions and embargoes; it takes Asian wisdom and skills not to spit and vomit. But 43 years ago the Vietnamese proved their superiority in character, Le Tuc Pho refused the Peace Nobel Prize 1973 while Kissinger, never accused of genocide nor faced the bench - accepted it.

We've learnt absolutely nothing; tell the Amis to go home and get their house in order; Asia, Europe and Africa can sort out their own way without what today is still called "imperialists" by certain Indochinese governments. And this, to make it crystal clear, refers to the official USA seated in Washington DC and not to the countless American friends of mine who are likewise sick and tired of their country's leadership.

Anybody who actually knows anything about the situation understand that Vietnam considers its #1 current threat to be China. As you clearly don't know, after the Vietnam war, China and Vietnam battled each other. China now pretty much claims the south china sea to be it's lake and maintains it has sovereignty over islands that Vietnam claims for its own. Even if it wanted to, The USA can't twist Vietnam's arm into doing business with us and purchasing arms from us. This is something Vietnam clearly wants.

[Utley]

"Vietnam has not bought anything" - what do you expect if the supplies come from a country which killed millions of their people? I - for one - never saw a Vietnamese threat at an American border. The Yankees were never supposed to be in Indochina. Officially fighting communism it might be noteworthy that the biggest creditor to the US is ...... the Peoples Republic of China; to the best of my limited knowledge a communist country.

​Obama runs around like a headless chicken and attending lame duck summits in the departure lounge of power. How godforsaken arrogant to "remove" the sanctions and embargoes; it takes Asian wisdom and skills not to spit and vomit. But 43 years ago the Vietnamese proved their superiority in character, Le Tuc Pho refused the Peace Nobel Prize 1973 while Kissinger, never accused of genocide nor faced the bench - accepted it.

We've learnt absolutely nothing; tell the Amis to go home and get their house in order; Asia, Europe and Africa can sort out their own way without what today is still called "imperialists" by certain Indochinese governments. And this, to make it crystal clear, refers to the official USA seated in Washington DC and not to the countless American friends of mine who are likewise sick and tired of their country's leadership.

I find it ironic that you rant and rave against the primary country that protects your right to rant and rave. Try ranting and raving against your host country and see how far you get.

[Usernames]

Swoooosh!!! That was the sound of the US-Vietnamese train that just flashed past the rest of SE Asia.

[SABloke]

Obami...had to do some'um...dem dare Chinese and Russians were making too much money from de Vietnamese...time to stop dat!

What sort of speech pattern are you mocking there? Surely not Obama's.

He's not mocking...that's just how he speaks himself Edited May 24, 2016 by SABloke

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.

[Sydebolle]

"Vietnam has not bought anything" - what do you expect if the supplies come from a country which killed millions of their people? I - for one - never saw a Vietnamese threat at an American border. The Yankees were never supposed to be in Indochina. Officially fighting communism it might be noteworthy that the biggest creditor to the US is ...... the Peoples Republic of China; to the best of my limited knowledge a communist country.

​Obama runs around like a headless chicken and attending lame duck summits in the departure lounge of power. How godforsaken arrogant to "remove" the sanctions and embargoes; it takes Asian wisdom and skills not to spit and vomit. But 43 years ago the Vietnamese proved their superiority in character, Le Tuc Pho refused the Peace Nobel Prize 1973 while Kissinger, never accused of genocide nor faced the bench - accepted it.

We've learnt absolutely nothing; tell the Amis to go home and get their house in order; Asia, Europe and Africa can sort out their own way without what today is still called "imperialists" by certain Indochinese governments. And this, to make it crystal clear, refers to the official USA seated in Washington DC and not to the countless American friends of mine who are likewise sick and tired of their country's leadership.

Anybody who actually knows anything about the situation understand that Vietnam considers its #1 current threat to be China. As you clearly don't know, after the Vietnam war, China and Vietnam battled each other. China now pretty much claims the south china sea to be it's lake and maintains it has sovereignty over islands that Vietnam claims for its own. Even if it wanted to, The USA can't twist Vietnam's arm into doing business with us and purchasing arms from us. This is something Vietnam clearly wants.

It would help if you actually would understand what I wrote. Reading alone is not sufficient.

I worked in Hanoi from 1978 - 1980 and happened to be around during the conflict you mentioned in February 1979. Luckily the US had lost the war by then already so Kissinger could brabble about Sino-Viet issues but nobody listened anymore. Today the US is still licking its wounds over the 58'000 service people they lost in Vietnam (by the way, 58'000 too many - as far as I am concerned) but nobody speaks about those millions of Indochinese, the systematic destruction of Cambodia or the 2 million tons of bombs the US dropped over Laos alone.

The US exists for 240 years of which it was and is war mongering for 224 years with countries NOT bordering the US.

The US boycotted the Olympic Games in Moscow 1980 was because the Soviets had occupied Afghanistan. Well, guess who went into Afghanistan a generation later?

Schwartzkopf already warned against taking out Hussein and Gaddafi - well it created a vacuum with a deadly domino effect in the Middle East and Northern Africa; the result will be a third world war.

Well; apart from cheaper oil the official US can also continue to sell weapons to countries behaving like kindergarteners.

What would Washington say if nuclear-free Canada would file a petition with the UN to demilitarise nuclear arsenal from the US? Washington would go apeshit!

So my point was, is and always will be that the US might be better advised to look after its own country and people.

One in seven Americans lives of food stamps, has - by far - the highest percentage of people in jails and needs to tax its citizens anywhere on the planet. Education is related to financial means, people die because of unaffordable medical care and while they choose the Miss USA among 50 candidates their system provides for the choice of precisely two once it concerns their head of state - there is lots of room for domestic improvement; don't you think so?

Let Indochina sort out the Spratly-island subject; the US is clearly not wanted. You saw what happened at the REAL 9/11 (Chile 1973); once those Washington-cronies are out affairs usually normalise over a generation or so - the latest example being Burma/Myanmar, Vietnam or Cuba. The Chinese will be put into the place it belongs - but this is up to Asia and certainly not the US or Europe.

Maybe you understand my point now; then only we could even agree to disagree

[Jingthing]

As someone old enough to have been personally impacted by the Vietnam War or the American War as the Vietnamese call it, I have to say that Obama's speech in Hanoi nearly brought me to tears. Kerry there as well who I saw in person when he was a firebrand anti-war protester. No, I'm not a veteran but I've known a number of Vietnam vets as friends and I knew some soldiers that were killed there. I also had the pleasure of later becoming friends with Vietnamese refugees in the U.S. who assimilated into American culture in often humorous ways. We've come so far. It's clear now the USA and Vietnam are destined to be SPECIAL friends in a way that will never happen with USA - Thailand relations. Because we've had the shared experience of pain ... the peace is so much more meaningful.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[zydeco]

As someone old enough to have been personally impacted by the Vietnam War or the American War as the Vietnamese call it, I have to say that Obama's speech in Hanoi nearly brought me to tears. Kerry there as well who I saw in person when he was a firebrand anti-war protester. No, I'm not a veteran but I've known a number of Vietnam vets as friends and I knew some soldiers that were killed there. I also had the pleasure of later becoming friends with Vietnamese refugees in the U.S. who assimilated into American culture in often humorous ways. We've come so far. It's clear now the USA and Vietnam are destined to be SPECIAL friends in a way that will never happen with USA - Thailand relations. Because we've had the shared experience of pain ... the peace is so much more meaningful.

Probably the large number of Vietnamese-Americans versus Thai-Americans makes the US-Vietnamese "special relationship" more of a possibility than anything else. I'm not sure how much the war registers on Americans' minds in general anymore. With the under 50s, I'm not so sure they think of it at all. And even the people from the war generation hardly think of it, either. The only people obsessed with it, seems to be a few old diehards who have put it at the center of their lives and never moved on. Some for good reason, injury or disability. Some for less than good reason, simply the failure to grow beyond their teens and twenties.

[Jingthing]

I see your point as well, and of course the reason there are so many Vietnamese Americans is the war, but I think there's another factor that might be seen as controversial. I think the general TEMPERAMENT of Vietnamese culture is closer to American culture than Thais are to Americans. When I think of Vietnamese people, the last thing I think of is MAI BPEN RAI.

This is purely anecdotal and may mean nothing, but putting it out there for discussion purposes.

The few Thai Americans I met while living in the U.S. didn't really seem deeply connected to the U.S. or really very interested (aloof and cat-like), where most of the Vietnamese Americans I've known have been enthusiastically into being American, like I said before, often in comical ways with the first generation ones. Like thinking being American is mostly about Rambo, that kind of silly stuff, but still into it and trying really hard, even if wrong about it.

Similarly, considering WW2, Americans are more like Germans (the enemy) than French (the allies).

The theory doesn't really hold up with the Japanese, who are so unique.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[zydeco]

I see your point as well, and of course the reason there are so many Vietnamese Americans is the war, but I think there's another factor that might be seen as controversial. I think the general TEMPERAMENT of Vietnamese culture is closer to American culture than Thais are to Americans. When I think of Vietnamese people, the last thing I think of is MAI BPEN RAI.

This is purely anecdotal and may mean nothing, but putting it out there for discussion purposes.

The few Thai Americans I met while living in the U.S. didn't really seem deeply connected to the U.S. or really very interested (aloof and cat-like), where most of the Vietnamese Americans I've known have been enthusiastically into being American, like I said before, often in comical ways with the first generation ones. Like thinking being American is mostly about Rambo, that kind of silly stuff, but still into it and trying really hard, even if wrong about it.

Similarly, considering WW2, Americans are more like Germans (the enemy) than French (the allies).

The theory doesn't really hold up with the Japanese, who are so unique.

Yes, I think the same thing is true for the Vietnamese I knew back in the US. They are hard-edged competitors who take life and especially business seriously. And you're right about the difference b/w Thai and Vietnamese attitudes, too. I've not met as many Thais--but American citizenship among many of them was almost a matter of convenience and gaining advantage. For the Vietnamese it was the difference b/w life and death. The Vietnamese were fully invested.

[Jingthing]

A little bit of related humor.

In the U.S. comedy series, the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt , there is a young Vietnamese recent immigrant who has entered a sham marriage for immigration. He's in real fear of being deported. Not because life in Vietnam is so horrible now ... his comical reason.

Paraphrased -- I can't go back to Vietnam. It's filled with backpacking (American) baby boomers looking for meaning.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[zydeco]

A little bit of related humor.

In the U.S. comedy series, the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt , there is a young Vietnamese recent immigrant who has entered a sham marriage for immigration. He's in real fear of being deported. Not because life in Vietnam is so horrible now ... his comical reason.

Paraphrased -- I can't go back to Vietnam. It's filled with backpacking (American) baby boomers looking for meaning.

Might check out Fresh Off the Boat, another US comedy series with similar digs about a Chinese-American family living in Florida during the 1990s

[Saastrajaa]

Just as Vietnam places an order for Boeing jets

Vietnam Airlines has been using Boeing planes for years, including 787s.

[ttthailand]

Being a Vietnam era vet and having been offended by a local tour company speaking out about how terrible America was and still is. I was offended but just kept it to myself.

For me, I think we should let them sink in their own blood. Let them fight the Chinese and become what they are destined to .... We have other places to build bases... Screw them !!!

[Jingthing]

Being a Vietnam era vet and having been offended by a local tour company speaking out about how terrible America was and still is. I was offended but just kept it to myself.

For me, I think we should let them sink in their own blood. Let them fight the Chinese and become what they are destined to .... We have other places to build bases... Screw them !!!

I visited Hanoi when American tourists were more rare. I definitely got special attention from tour operators but considering the history I felt it was understandable. The main question I got was, why don't we see many Americans? (Duh!) It takes time.