Non Married Farang Man buying land in Thailand.

[melvinmelvin]

You can own a condo,or you can have your name as co owner of a house,ie,Yellow book,BUT you cannot own the land it is built on,never never.

why do people here on TV continue to insist on rubbish as above?

it has been explained over and over again, in this thread, that real estate can be purchased by and owned by foreigners in their own name in LoS

yet, some nitwits with vague knowledge about reality persist that it cannot be done

beats me what kind of people this forum attracts

[sixlegs]

Why would you do such a silly thing?

[xylophone]

You can own a condo,or you can have your name as co owner of a house,ie,Yellow book,BUT you cannot own the land it is built on,never never.

why do people here on TV continue to insist on rubbish as above?

it has been explained over and over again, in this thread, that real estate can be purchased by and owned by foreigners in their own name in LoS

yet, some nitwits with vague knowledge about reality persist that it cannot be done

beats me what kind of people this forum attracts

I have seen nothing from you or on here "that has explained over and over again" how this can be legally done........reference please or explain it.

This from Desmond Hughes who has been an owner and operator of his law firm in Thailand for 14 years, and is a senior partner at the Hughes Krupica law firm......

PROPERTY/LEASES IN THAILAND

The first lease I saw contained a right for the lessor to terminate the lease for ‘any breach’ on failure to remedy a breach within 30 days of receiving a notice. I was amazed because the lessee was described by the sales agent as a ‘buyer’ and was paying around, at that time, 20 million baht for this ‘lease’. I commented strongly at the time that this didn’t sound safe for the lessee and was unfair. I clearly remember that I was attacked verbally and in writing by the developer’s legal counsel and by the sales agent.

“This is how things work in Phuket,” I was told.

I simply refused to accept this, and the buyers didn’t accept it either and negotiated a better, although not perfect, lease. There is no ‘Phuket law’ for property, only national law, rules and regulations for local officials on matters such as building restrictions and so on.

To this day, the saga continues. Many lessees in Phuket are being, or have been, treated unfairly in different projects, sometimes under the same umbrella of legal advisers who in the past may have persuaded them to buy leases and even advised them of the contents of the leases. Hypocrisy runs rife in the world and isn’t absent from property investment on our beautiful island.

Buying ‘freehold’ land in Thailand as a foreigner is illegal unless some rare exceptions apply. Simply setting up a Thai company used to be a common ‘solution’ offered by advisers and it became apparent over many years that the authorities disapproved of this practice to the point that headlines contained stark warnings of investigations and penalties for shareholders, directors, accountants and lawyers involved in any such practice. But then the investigations went ‘quiet’ and the practice continued.

There is a grey area in many investors' minds when it comes to the ‘purpose’ of a Thai company. In theory, if a company is not set up solely to own land, but operates a business and then coincidentally owns land, then this may or may not be a contravention of the Land Code. This theory has yet to be properly tested in the correct circumstances and anyone relying upon it must accept quite a few inherent risks.

Further, the authorities have made it clear they are looking to close loopholes and to ensure that past practices of circumventing and breaking laws will be handled. Land offices and the Department of Business Development are under instruction to look into Thai companies and land ownership.

However, if the same company has nominee shareholders, no proper documentation, no money trail for capitalization of shares, and no sign of any bona fide business relationship between shareholders, the chances of ever defending such a structure are slim. This means the prospect of owning an interest, below 50 per cent of the shares, in a Thai company that also owns land is extremely limited to most potential investors.

Leasehold only works for long-term investments if protections are in place. I have seen all sorts of weird, dreamed-up schemes, including making lessees ‘lenders’ and registering mortgages on titles, which only have to be removed when a buyer wishes to buy in the future. Experiments conducted without proper trials rarely work.

Leasehold investments for property require a lot of preparation to ensure that there is a balance between who the landlord is, what rights that landlord has, whether he/she will exercise those rights, what institutional obligations they have and whether the owners have any degree of control or input into assignment of their properties to buyers, or in the future, a renewal of the lease. When such a structure is created poorly, matters can go horribly wrong. However, it isn’t just the documents that can make things go wrong; it can be the companies and individuals involved – and sometimes their advisers too.

Public companies that retain strong rights as a lessor are under a strong obligation not to run riot and start terminating the leases of their clients. Not only do they rely upon repeat buyers, they have a long-term reputation and a share price to worry about. Thai public companies are heavily regulated, and therefore when you buy from such companies, you will have a degree of comfort and accountability available to you.

However, when you buy from private developers, more care and investigation should be exercised. Importantly, don’t accept the word of any foreigner, and that includes me, as a final say on what happens in the courts in Thailand when things go wrong. Thai lawyers know how their court system works; they have experience in judgments at Court of First Instance, appeals and enforcement. A good Thai lawyer experienced in litigation can tell you if your lease can be terminated or not, very quickly, if you ask.

[xylophone]

As a rider to the above I exclude those lucky enough to be able to invest 40m baht in Thailand.

[mankondang]

What I have heard if you have A business then maybe possible to put it in the business name but you have to jump thru hoops to do it.There are books on the subject.

Yes you can register a business and buy and sell land in that business name. Extremely expensive, min 40 million bhat in your bank account I've been told, and complex as well. Research it well and trust no one with your money.

Edited May 30, 2016 by mankondang

[khunPer]

If you're American citizen, you can open a Thai company limited under the Thai-American Amity Treaty.

That is not correct, i have a American Amity Treaty company and this type of company cannot own land as it is owned by foreigners. The only benefit of such company is that you can own the company 100% and not have thai shareholders and thus be subjected to the Nominee problem.

Thanks for correcting me – and I'm sorry if I'm wrong, didn't make a re-check-up before posting – but I'm sure I several times has read that a company under Thai-American Amity Treaty are limited in owing land, but up to 1 rai.

I can see from a Sunbelt Asia lawyer reply, that I – and others – may have been confused by this:

Theoretically, Section 96 of the Land Code Amendment of 1999 allows the purchase of 1 rai for residential purposes through the Board of Investment. This requires a 40 million baht investment into Thailand in specified assets or government bonds beneficial to the Thai economy and approval by the Minister of Interior and only under strict restrictions and to set locations. It is not transferable by inheritance.

Also theoretically, foreigners can inherit and occupy 1 rai of land as statutory heirs but this also must be granted by the Minister of Interior. Generally, the rule is the surviving spouse has one year to dispose of the property.

Source: U.S. Citizens Can Own 1 Rai Of Land?

[khunPer]

OP:

If I can not put in my name, I have a Thai friend that I can trust.

My priority is to get it in my name somehow but if not, what are my options?

I really want to avoid expensive Lawyers

Normally a first meeting with a lawyer is free; and often the cost for a lawyer – even expensive ones – is worth it, when dealing with Thai ownership issues.

A foreigner cannot own land in Thailand.

You options are:

1.

The Thai friend you trust can buy the land in his name and grant the right of use to you, as Usufruct or Superficies.

You may be able to secure your indirectly investment by having a loan, just like a mortgage, declared on the Land Deed (have to be Chanote title), a lawyer can advise your further.

2.

Forming a Thai company limited, where you as foreigner own 49% and Thais own 51%. There need to be 3 shareholders in total. Your shares can by so-called "preferred shares" with 10-votes on each share – that may not be the intention of the Law, but to my knowledge not yet tried at Court – or as another TV-poster suggested, limit the votes of Thai-owned shares by giving a fixed small dividend. Expect the Thai owner/owners to be able to prove their financial capacity to invest in shares.

Use an experience lawyer to set up the company – he may also be able to advise you about present regulations and limitations.

Expect a cost of 30,000 to 50,000 baht to set up a Thai company limited, and a minimum of 40,000 baht annually for account and auditor – best if the company has some other activities than just owing a plot of land.

When buying land it may be a benefit, if foreign ownership is under 40% – some Land Departments may not transfer deed to a 49/51 company, but a local lawyer will know – and transfer the remaining 10% after land transfer.

You can lease the land from the company on a 30-year lease – that way the company make income for the running expenses – but there is no such legal thing, like optional extra 30 years, this may make the lease agreement void.

You shall probably expect to open a Thai company limited with a shareholder capital of 2 million baht, if your land value is more, you may be able to grant a loan with security in the land (see under 1).

If you wish to build a house on the land, you can as foreigner own a house, but not the land it sits on.

Wish you good luck with your project...

[xylophone]

OP:

If I can not put in my name, I have a Thai friend that I can trust.

My priority is to get it in my name somehow but if not, what are my options?

I really want to avoid expensive Lawyers

Normally a first meeting with a lawyer is free; and often the cost for a lawyer – even expensive ones – is worth it, when dealing with Thai ownership issues.

A foreigner cannot own land in Thailand.

You options are:

1.

The Thai friend you trust can buy the land in his name and grant the right of use to you, as Usufruct or Superficies.

You may be able to secure your indirectly investment by having a loan, just like a mortgage, declared on the Land Deed (have to be Chanote title), a lawyer can advise your further.

2.

Forming a Thai company limited, where you as foreigner own 49% and Thais own 51%. There need to be 3 shareholders in total. Your shares can by so-called "preferred shares" with 10-votes on each share – that may not be the intention of the Law, but to my knowledge not yet tried at Court – or as another TV-poster suggested, limit the votes of Thai-owned shares by giving a fixed small dividend. Expect the Thai owner/owners to be able to prove their financial capacity to invest in shares.

Use an experience lawyer to set up the company – he may also be able to advise you about present regulations and limitations.

Expect a cost of 30,000 to 50,000 baht to set up a Thai company limited, and a minimum of 40,000 baht annually for account and auditor – best if the company has some other activities than just owing a plot of land.

When buying land it may be a benefit, if foreign ownership is under 40% – some Land Departments may not transfer deed to a 49/51 company, but a local lawyer will know – and transfer the remaining 10% after land transfer.

You can lease the land from the company on a 30-year lease – that way the company make income for the running expenses – but there is no such legal thing, like optional extra 30 years, this may make the lease agreement void.

You shall probably expect to open a Thai company limited with a shareholder capital of 2 million baht, if your land value is more, you may be able to grant a loan with security in the land (see under 1).

If you wish to build a house on the land, you can as foreigner own a house, but not the land it sits on.

Wish you good luck with your project...

As you know, setting up a company just to own land is illegal, so I see that you are suggesting that the company has "some other activities".

The information I have is that if a company is set up and trading, then it needs to employ four Thai people in its business, pay salaries and taxes and be able to prove that it is a bona fide company.

Suffice it to say that the powers that be in this country do not want farangs to own land so they have done everything they possibly can to ensure that doesn't happen, yet there are still people trying to "get around" this in order that they can own land or similar, and do so by dreaming up various schemes and circuitous routes, but when push comes to shove, there is only ever going to be one loser and details of the same can often be found onThaivisa.com.

[Tony125]

The closest affordable way to get there is;

• Set up a Thai company and get the maximum (45% shares) on your name.
• Thai company, which you own, buys the land and holds the land title.
• You'll need a few Thai partners to share the other stocks (55%) with.
• The Thai share holders can be restricted to have no decision making rights for undersigning documents, these rights are only granted to yourself as director. So you have the only rights to make decisions by yourself and with all this legal issued, you technically have the land title 100% under control.
• Yearly costs to run your company app. 500 USD. The whole setup should not cost more than app. 2500 USD.
• When you want to sell the land, you need to transfer only the shares of the company to the new owners, no transfer taxes to pay............ only minor costs to transfer the shares by lawyer.
• It will cost you small money yearly but it guarantees you holding your assets 100% under control even if struggling with relations or friendships.

I've lost valuable assets over the last 25 years in Thailand to so called ''friends for life'', I've been there and many others too. Life changes every day, we can't control the mind of others, neither their way of living.

Putting assets on friends names is a ''no go'' unless you are ready to give all away after all anyway. If you can't find a reasonable priced lawyer, I can recommend you one.

Do you know how many people have lost everything under this scenario due to forgery, etc.?

i have met several, often their wifes have forged their signatures and borrowed money against their house. court cases drag on for years. do a google search, one poor guy i met down in phuket lost hundreds of thousands of pounds in property when the mother of his 3 kids took out a small loan against his assets. happens again and again because people wont listen.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/856992-defrauded-by-my-wife-and-criminals-in-thailand-bbc-special-report/ that is the link to the sad story

[djlest]

USAFRUCT! its possible but a grey tactic - but so everything here...

[jovavnni]

The closest affordable way to get there is;

• Set up a Thai company and get the maximum (45% shares) on your name.
• Thai company, which you own, buys the land and holds the land title.
• You'll need a few Thai partners to share the other stocks (55%) with.
• The Thai share holders can be restricted to have no decision making rights for undersigning documents, these rights are only granted to yourself as director. So you have the only rights to make decisions by yourself and with all this legal issued, you technically have the land title 100% under control.
• Yearly costs to run your company app. 500 USD. The whole setup should not cost more than app. 2500 USD.
• When you want to sell the land, you need to transfer only the shares of the company to the new owners, no transfer taxes to pay............ only minor costs to transfer the shares by lawyer.
• It will cost you small money yearly but it guarantees you holding your assets 100% under control even if struggling with relations or friendships.

I've lost valuable assets over the last 25 years in Thailand to so called ''friends for life'', I've been there and many others too. Life changes every day, we can't control the mind of others, neither their way of living.

Putting assets on friends names is a ''no go'' unless you are ready to give all away after all anyway. If you can't find a reasonable priced lawyer, I can recommend you one.

This is illegal and could result in the "buyer" losing everything.

As long as you fill in your tax papers and keep the DBD registration up to date, nothing Illegal with it, perfectly legal to be a share holder of a company.....

[jovavnni]

The closest affordable way to get there is;

• Set up a Thai company and get the maximum (45% shares) on your name.
• Thai company, which you own, buys the land and holds the land title.
• You'll need a few Thai partners to share the other stocks (55%) with.
• The Thai share holders can be restricted to have no decision making rights for undersigning documents, these rights are only granted to yourself as director. So you have the only rights to make decisions by yourself and with all this legal issued, you technically have the land title 100% under control.
• Yearly costs to run your company app. 500 USD. The whole setup should not cost more than app. 2500 USD.
• When you want to sell the land, you need to transfer only the shares of the company to the new owners, no transfer taxes to pay............ only minor costs to transfer the shares by lawyer.
• It will cost you small money yearly but it guarantees you holding your assets 100% under control even if struggling with relations or friendships.

I've lost valuable assets over the last 25 years in Thailand to so called ''friends for life'', I've been there and many others too. Life changes every day, we can't control the mind of others, neither their way of living.

Putting assets on friends names is a ''no go'' unless you are ready to give all away after all anyway. If you can't find a reasonable priced lawyer, I can recommend you one.

Do you know how many people have lost everything under this scenario due to forgery, etc.?

i have met several, often their wifes have forged their signatures and borrowed money against their house. court cases drag on for years. do a google search, one poor guy i met down in phuket lost hundreds of thousands of pounds in property when the mother of his 3 kids took out a small loan against his assets. happens again and again because people wont listen.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/856992-defrauded-by-my-wife-and-criminals-in-thailand-bbc-special-report/ that is the link to the sad story

If forgery come into play, court lawsuit and a lot of luck is needed. A good lawyer at beforehand who is keeping the original signed documents for you safe away from any other share holders is the key. Without the original titles, one can sell or borrow nothing to a third party, copies are useless for these purposes!

[ozyjon]

Non Married Farang Man buying land in Thailand.

Please answer only if you have had personal dealings with this topic or if you have full knowledge of this.

I have NO experience in this field except to re-write your heading to suit me.

Non Married - INVISIBLE - Farang Man buying land in Thailand.

[khunPer]

OP:

If I can not put in my name, I have a Thai friend that I can trust.

My priority is to get it in my name somehow but if not, what are my options?

I really want to avoid expensive Lawyers

Normally a first meeting with a lawyer is free; and often the cost for a lawyer – even expensive ones – is worth it, when dealing with Thai ownership issues.

A foreigner cannot own land in Thailand.

You options are:

1.

The Thai friend you trust can buy the land in his name and grant the right of use to you, as Usufruct or Superficies.

You may be able to secure your indirectly investment by having a loan, just like a mortgage, declared on the Land Deed (have to be Chanote title), a lawyer can advise your further.

2.

Forming a Thai company limited, where you as foreigner own 49% and Thais own 51%. There need to be 3 shareholders in total. Your shares can by so-called "preferred shares" with 10-votes on each share – that may not be the intention of the Law, but to my knowledge not yet tried at Court – or as another TV-poster suggested, limit the votes of Thai-owned shares by giving a fixed small dividend. Expect the Thai owner/owners to be able to prove their financial capacity to invest in shares.

Use an experience lawyer to set up the company – he may also be able to advise you about present regulations and limitations.

Expect a cost of 30,000 to 50,000 baht to set up a Thai company limited, and a minimum of 40,000 baht annually for account and auditor – best if the company has some other activities than just owing a plot of land.

When buying land it may be a benefit, if foreign ownership is under 40% – some Land Departments may not transfer deed to a 49/51 company, but a local lawyer will know – and transfer the remaining 10% after land transfer.

You can lease the land from the company on a 30-year lease – that way the company make income for the running expenses – but there is no such legal thing, like optional extra 30 years, this may make the lease agreement void.

You shall probably expect to open a Thai company limited with a shareholder capital of 2 million baht, if your land value is more, you may be able to grant a loan with security in the land (see under 1).

If you wish to build a house on the land, you can as foreigner own a house, but not the land it sits on.

Wish you good luck with your project...

As you know, setting up a company just to own land is illegal, so I see that you are suggesting that the company has "some other activities".

The information I have is that if a company is set up and trading, then it needs to employ four Thai people in its business, pay salaries and taxes and be able to prove that it is a bona fide company.

Suffice it to say that the powers that be in this country do not want farangs to own land so they have done everything they possibly can to ensure that doesn't happen, yet there are still people trying to "get around" this in order that they can own land or similar, and do so by dreaming up various schemes and circuitous routes, but when push comes to shove, there is only ever going to be one loser and details of the same can often be found onThaivisa.com.

"4 Thai workers etc..." I think you are messing up with, what's needed for a foreign Work Permit in a company. It's recommendable to have an employed Thai and pay salary/social security, and that the company show a profit and pay tax.

OP asked for options, and that's what he's having – beginning with "a foreigner cannot own land in Thailand"...

FYI: I live here and is major shareholder in a Thai company, but not a land-proxy...

[catman20]

it is absolutely not possible.

nonsense! get a Thai to buy the land and get him give you a 30 year lease. Register the lease with the land department. Get a lawyer to to make an agreement that he lease is renewable. Easy , no problem

or put the land in a company name. I did no problem's

[BaldPlumber]

it is absolutely not possible.

nonsense! get a Thai to buy the land and get him give you a 30 year lease. Register the lease with the land department. Get a lawyer to to make an agreement that he lease is renewable. Easy , no problem

or put the land in a company name. I did no problem's

As have many others I suspect, with zero problems.

Maybe they're lucky enough not to have all of these contacts with a direct line to government legislators who are currently trying to outwit the foreign devils who just wish to own a <deleted> house here.

[flare]

Using a nominee company works, especially if you file all proper tax paperwork and have a decent accountant (fly under the radar and don't encourage scrutiny). If the government were to actually crackdown on the use of these companies to enable foreigners to buy land (which I don't believe they really want to do- many of the people in government are the ones who are enjoying enormous profits selling land to foreigners- if the market were only Thais, land values would likely drop), the penalty would be that the land would have to be sold or transferred to a Thai, or the structure of the company would have to be changed- if you have a Thai national that you trust completely, use them as a failsafe in case your company ends up having an issue later (which, if you only own a single house and pay your taxes, it likely won't).

Edited May 30, 2016 by flare

[xylophone]

Using a nominee company works, especially if you file all proper tax paperwork and have a decent accountant (fly under the radar and don't encourage scrutiny). If the government were to actually crackdown on the use of these companies to enable foreigners to buy land (which I don't believe they really want to do- many of the people in government are the ones who are enjoying enormous profits selling land to foreigners- if the market were only Thais, land values would likely drop), the penalty would be that the land would have to be sold or transferred to a Thai, or the structure of the company would have to be changed- if you have a Thai national that you trust completely, use them as a failsafe in case your company ends up having an issue later (which, if you only own a single house and pay your taxes, it likely won't).

Using a nominee company to buy/acquire land is illegal and no amount of paperwork/accountant shenanigans can get round that, so why do it?

Not only is it illegal on the face of it, it is also illegal in other aspects ......see this from a lawyer: "if the same company has nominee shareholders, no proper documentation, no money trail for capitalization of shares, and no sign of any bona fide business relationship between shareholders, the chances of ever defending such a structure are slim".

I will share with you one of the pitfalls of such a structure, and these have been commonly implemented over the past years with the help of "crooked" lawyers.

I have first hand experience because this is a friend of mine and I have discussed it with him on many occasions, however the likelihood of him coming out of it with "anything" seem very slim......... he purchased a villa here in Phuket with the help of his well recommended lawyer, using the nominee company process and was assured that everything was kosher and he seemed set up for life. That was until he decided to rent the place out and took a job overseas, coming back only occasionally to check on it.

He came back for an extended stay when it was empty and imagine his surprise when someone turned up on his doorstep asking him to vacate the premises because they were the owners of the place and had recently bought it from his lawyer, who was the owner!

To cut a long story short, it turns out that the lawyer had forged a signature and sold the house, pocketing the proceeds (with the help of the nominees of course because in total they owned more than 50% of the company).

He has now spent over a year trying to recover the situation, but his current lawyer explains that he is in a difficult situation because he acquired the property illegally in the first place, so that must be dealt with first..........and you've guessed it, after much money being spent and frequent visits back from overseas, he has gotten absolutely nowhere.

A bone fide, first-hand case which shows one of the problems which can occur with such a structure.

Message to the OP.......... DON'T DO IT, despite others suggesting "ways around it" because in the end it is illegal and you could lose everything.

[THAIJAMES]

Using a nominee company works, especially if you file all proper tax paperwork and have a decent accountant (fly under the radar and don't encourage scrutiny). If the government were to actually crackdown on the use of these companies to enable foreigners to buy land (which I don't believe they really want to do- many of the people in government are the ones who are enjoying enormous profits selling land to foreigners- if the market were only Thais, land values would likely drop), the penalty would be that the land would have to be sold or transferred to a Thai, or the structure of the company would have to be changed- if you have a Thai national that you trust completely, use them as a failsafe in case your company ends up having an issue later (which, if you only own a single house and pay your taxes, it likely won't).

Using a nominee company to buy/acquire land is illegal and no amount of paperwork/accountant shenanigans can get round that, so why do it?

Not only is it illegal on the face of it, it is also illegal in other aspects ......see this from a lawyer: "if the same company has nominee shareholders, no proper documentation, no money trail for capitalization of shares, and no sign of any bona fide business relationship between shareholders, the chances of ever defending such a structure are slim".

I will share with you one of the pitfalls of such a structure, and these have been commonly implemented over the past years with the help of "crooked" lawyers.

I have first hand experience because this is a friend of mine and I have discussed it with him on many occasions, however the likelihood of him coming out of it with "anything" seem very slim......... he purchased a villa here in Phuket with the help of his well recommended lawyer, using the nominee company process and was assured that everything was kosher and he seemed set up for life. That was until he decided to rent the place out and took a job overseas, coming back only occasionally to check on it.

He came back for an extended stay when it was empty and imagine his surprise when someone turned up on his doorstep asking him to vacate the premises because they were the owners of the place and had recently bought it from his lawyer, who was the owner!

To cut a long story short, it turns out that the lawyer had forged a signature and sold the house, pocketing the proceeds (with the help of the nominees of course because in total they owned more than 50% of the company).

He has now spent over a year trying to recover the situation, but his current lawyer explains that he is in a difficult situation because he acquired the property illegally in the first place, so that must be dealt with first..........and you've guessed it, after much money being spent and frequent visits back from overseas, he has gotten absolutely nowhere.

A bone fide, first-hand case which shows one of the problems which can occur with such a structure.

Message to the OP.......... DON'T DO IT, despite others suggesting "ways around it" because in the end it is illegal and you could lose everything.

This is not a good example.

The problem you mention is not the problem of a nominee company it is a risk that any company faces land or no land involved.

You can avoid this risk by signing a statement at the business department that no changes to the company structure, ownership, etc can be carried out without you being present in person.

Edited May 31, 2016 by THAIJAMES

[THAIJAMES]

If you're American citizen, you can open a Thai company limited under the Thai-American Amity Treaty.

That is not correct, i have a American Amity Treaty company and this type of company cannot own land as it is owned by foreigners. The only benefit of such company is that you can own the company 100% and not have thai shareholders and thus be subjected to the Nominee problem.

Thanks for correcting me – and I'm sorry if I'm wrong, didn't make a re-check-up before posting – but I'm sure I several times has read that a company under Thai-American Amity Treaty are limited in owing land, but up to 1 rai.

I can see from a Sunbelt Asia lawyer reply, that I – and others – may have been confused by this:

Theoretically, Section 96 of the Land Code Amendment of 1999 allows the purchase of 1 rai for residential purposes through the Board of Investment. This requires a 40 million baht investment into Thailand in specified assets or government bonds beneficial to the Thai economy and approval by the Minister of Interior and only under strict restrictions and to set locations. It is not transferable by inheritance.

Also theoretically, foreigners can inherit and occupy 1 rai of land as statutory heirs but this also must be granted by the Minister of Interior. Generally, the rule is the surviving spouse has one year to dispose of the property.

Source: U.S. Citizens Can Own 1 Rai Of Land?

I wish it was true, i would have purchased land using my amity treaty company a long time ago. There is a BOI section 96 that allows you to purchase land with a 40 million baht investment, but this is separate and nothing to do with the amity treaty.

[THAIJAMES]

If forgery come into play, court lawsuit and a lot of luck is needed. A good lawyer at beforehand who is keeping the original signed documents for you safe away from any other share holders is the key. Without the original titles, one can sell or borrow nothing to a third party, copies are useless for these purposes!

I think lawyers are part of the problem, I am not sure that I would trust any of them here in Thailand. better to keep the important documents in a bank safety deposit box where no one else beside you has access.

Also I am not so sure that without the original title nothing can be done.

In fact with (forged) power of attorney, someone else can request new titles deeds claiming old ones have been lost. From there another (forged) power of attorney can be used to transfer land to anyone. The land department has signatures on record so it will have to be a pretty good forgery, but land department officials have been known to accept bribes to look the other way as long as most of the documentation is correct ( the person with power of attorney presents a copy of the owners ID, house registration etc.).

[khunPer]

Using a nominee company works, especially if you file all proper tax paperwork and have a decent accountant (fly under the radar and don't encourage scrutiny). If the government were to actually crackdown on the use of these companies to enable foreigners to buy land (which I don't believe they really want to do- many of the people in government are the ones who are enjoying enormous profits selling land to foreigners- if the market were only Thais, land values would likely drop), the penalty would be that the land would have to be sold or transferred to a Thai, or the structure of the company would have to be changed- if you have a Thai national that you trust completely, use them as a failsafe in case your company ends up having an issue later (which, if you only own a single house and pay your taxes, it likely won't).

Using a nominee company to buy/acquire land is illegal and no amount of paperwork/accountant shenanigans can get round that, so why do it?

Not only is it illegal on the face of it, it is also illegal in other aspects ......see this from a lawyer: "if the same company has nominee shareholders, no proper documentation, no money trail for capitalization of shares, and no sign of any bona fide business relationship between shareholders, the chances of ever defending such a structure are slim".

I will share with you one of the pitfalls of such a structure, and these have been commonly implemented over the past years with the help of "crooked" lawyers.

I have first hand experience because this is a friend of mine and I have discussed it with him on many occasions, however the likelihood of him coming out of it with "anything" seem very slim......... he purchased a villa here in Phuket with the help of his well recommended lawyer, using the nominee company process and was assured that everything was kosher and he seemed set up for life. That was until he decided to rent the place out and took a job overseas, coming back only occasionally to check on it.

He came back for an extended stay when it was empty and imagine his surprise when someone turned up on his doorstep asking him to vacate the premises because they were the owners of the place and had recently bought it from his lawyer, who was the owner!

To cut a long story short, it turns out that the lawyer had forged a signature and sold the house, pocketing the proceeds (with the help of the nominees of course because in total they owned more than 50% of the company).

He has now spent over a year trying to recover the situation, but his current lawyer explains that he is in a difficult situation because he acquired the property illegally in the first place, so that must be dealt with first..........and you've guessed it, after much money being spent and frequent visits back from overseas, he has gotten absolutely nowhere.

A bone fide, first-hand case which shows one of the problems which can occur with such a structure.

Message to the OP.......... DON'T DO IT, despite others suggesting "ways around it" because in the end it is illegal and you could lose everything.

The few horror-stories sells headlines – all the many good stories are so boring that we seldom hear about them...

[xylophone]

Using a nominee company works, especially if you file all proper tax paperwork and have a decent accountant (fly under the radar and don't encourage scrutiny). If the government were to actually crackdown on the use of these companies to enable foreigners to buy land (which I don't believe they really want to do- many of the people in government are the ones who are enjoying enormous profits selling land to foreigners- if the market were only Thais, land values would likely drop), the penalty would be that the land would have to be sold or transferred to a Thai, or the structure of the company would have to be changed- if you have a Thai national that you trust completely, use them as a failsafe in case your company ends up having an issue later (which, if you only own a single house and pay your taxes, it likely won't).

Using a nominee company to buy/acquire land is illegal and no amount of paperwork/accountant shenanigans can get round that, so why do it?

Not only is it illegal on the face of it, it is also illegal in other aspects ......see this from a lawyer: "if the same company has nominee shareholders, no proper documentation, no money trail for capitalization of shares, and no sign of any bona fide business relationship between shareholders, the chances of ever defending such a structure are slim".

I will share with you one of the pitfalls of such a structure, and these have been commonly implemented over the past years with the help of "crooked" lawyers.

I have first hand experience because this is a friend of mine and I have discussed it with him on many occasions, however the likelihood of him coming out of it with "anything" seem very slim......... he purchased a villa here in Phuket with the help of his well recommended lawyer, using the nominee company process and was assured that everything was kosher and he seemed set up for life. That was until he decided to rent the place out and took a job overseas, coming back only occasionally to check on it.

He came back for an extended stay when it was empty and imagine his surprise when someone turned up on his doorstep asking him to vacate the premises because they were the owners of the place and had recently bought it from his lawyer, who was the owner!

To cut a long story short, it turns out that the lawyer had forged a signature and sold the house, pocketing the proceeds (with the help of the nominees of course because in total they owned more than 50% of the company).

He has now spent over a year trying to recover the situation, but his current lawyer explains that he is in a difficult situation because he acquired the property illegally in the first place, so that must be dealt with first..........and you've guessed it, after much money being spent and frequent visits back from overseas, he has gotten absolutely nowhere.

A bone fide, first-hand case which shows one of the problems which can occur with such a structure.

Message to the OP.......... DON'T DO IT, despite others suggesting "ways around it" because in the end it is illegal and you could lose everything.

This is not a good example.

The problem you mention is not the problem of a nominee company it is a risk that any company faces land or no land involved.

You can avoid this risk by signing a statement at the business department that no changes to the company structure, ownership, etc can be carried out without you being present in person.

My point was that using a nominee company to buy property/land is illegal AND if anything goes wrong then there is very little in the way of a remedy available.

Sure there are other risks to doing business in Thailand, one of which you highlight.

[THAIJAMES]

My point was that using a nominee company to buy property/land is illegal AND if anything goes wrong then there is very little in the way of a remedy available.

Sure there are other risks to doing business in Thailand, one of which you highlight.

You are correct that that by definition it is illegal. However I am not sure that there is little in the way of remedy available.

From my understanding if a company is deemed to be a nominee company illegally holding land, such land will not be confiscated it will be ordered to be transferred to a legal entity, for example a thai person and a penalty may be assessed.

[flare]

My point was that using a nominee company to buy property/land is illegal AND if anything goes wrong then there is very little in the way of a remedy available.

Sure there are other risks to doing business in Thailand, one of which you highlight.

You are correct that that by definition it is illegal. However I am not sure that there is little in the way of remedy available.

From my understanding if a company is deemed to be a nominee company illegally holding land, such land will not be confiscated it will be ordered to be transferred to a legal entity, for example a thai person and a penalty may be assessed.

Right, hence my point of using a Thai person as a secondary measure. Someone not doing their due diligence and having an issue isn't a Thai problem, it's universal- the friend in question didn't do his homework and got screwed.

[xylophone]

My point was that using a nominee company to buy property/land is illegal AND if anything goes wrong then there is very little in the way of a remedy available.

Sure there are other risks to doing business in Thailand, one of which you highlight.

You are correct that that by definition it is illegal. However I am not sure that there is little in the way of remedy available.

From my understanding if a company is deemed to be a nominee company illegally holding land, such land will not be confiscated it will be ordered to be transferred to a legal entity, for example a thai person and a penalty may be assessed.

Right, hence my point of using a Thai person as a secondary measure. Someone not doing their due diligence and having an issue isn't a Thai problem, it's universal- the friend in question didn't do his homework and got screwed.

So what you're saying is that it is alright to use a nominee company (which it isn't, because it is illegal) but you should put in place a plan B just in case you are found out!

As for the Thai person being used as a secondary measure, as both you and another poster point out, the land may not be confiscated but it could be ordered to be transferred to a legal entity, but who, maybe not the backup person, this especially if they are a nominee and have not invested in this company which most don't, so the whole setup becomes illegal and what happens then?............and there will certainly be a cost to all of this and even perhaps a fine?

I don't think there's any real point in going round and round in circles, talking about ways in which you can break the law by "flying under the radar"/being smart/having a secondary person/etc etc because in plain and simple English it is not allowed and it is illegal.

Message to the OP; a foreigner cannot own land in Thailand unless it is through the 40 million baht investment process. End of story really.

[connda]

I am an unmarried 57 year old American man buying land here in Thailand.

1. You may be a 57 year old American, but;

2. you are not buying land here in Thailand.

Otherwise: Go straight to Jail, do not pass Go!

Edited May 31, 2016 by connda

[jeanno]

Lease land contract 30 years registered in land office. I m single man and it s what i have.

[beerzy]

It is not possible for you to buy land in your name....only for Thai citizens.

It is not possible to trust a Thai friend to buy your land in his name and for problems

not to arrive in the future.......would you buy land in your home country in someone else's name ?

Bullshit you can buy land in Thailand.

here's a link

http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/thailand-buying-land.php

[simon43]

The OP is 57 years old, foreigner, single?

My suggestion: Lease the land for up to the maximum-allowed term of 30 years. He can lease the land in his name only, not involving any Thais. Then build a nice teak or Mai-daang house to live in on the land. If some problem should occur in the future with the land (pig farm built next door etc), just lease another piece of land and transport your house to that new piece of land.

I have leased land in Phuket on 4 occasions (for business), in my name only. Each lease contract fixes the monthly rent for the whole term, (ie the rent never increases each year - it is a nominal amount, typically 16,000 THB per month for half a rai of land).

My lease contract is registered at the local Amphur office. It is a lease contract in my favour - the landowner must honour the lease for the whole term, but I can walk away at any time without having to pay the balance of the lease. I can build whatever I want on the land (subject to planning permissions), and I can demolish or remove those buildings at any time if I want to.