Buying 2nd hand CBR250 advice needed

[Kenny202]

Decided to buy a little 2011 11,000km used Honda CBR250. I'm imagining these bikes are fairly bullet proof but just wondering what I should be looking for. Its from a dealer...no warranty etc and I need to take care of the transfer myself. The green book / transfer form is in the previous owners name (not the agents) and all the engine / frame number appears to match. Bike looks extremely straight and clean. Everything cosmetically about the bike seems to be consistent or better than expected for age so guessing mileage real (Is it easy to wind the clock back on these things?). Cant see any evidence of accidents or ever being dropped.

At 11,000km are there any expensive services coming up?

I tried to look at the condition of the oil but notice theres no dipstick on the plug. Is this normal?

The previous owner has signed the tfer paper with a copy of his ID but I don't see where he's dated it. Should I date it myself before going to transport dept or not important?

Has a carbon pipe which may or may not be too noisy. Isn't crazy loud but throaty. Are transport strict on this when inspecting vehicles (Khon Kaen)

[MichaelSong]

When they saw the Termignioni on my Ducati, they immediatly tested the sound : 107Db , too loud.

I said ok, i will put in the Db killers and come back, they said no : has to be the standard exhaust.

So I fitted the stock exhaust and went back, they just looked and approved without testing the sound again.

Maybe they are not that strict in KK , but if you can, try to include the original exhaust in the sale, just in case...

[Kenny202]

Well looks like the deal has fallen over anyway. Typical here, no customer is always right in fact most anyone I've done business with here seems to treat the customer with suspicion and like a criminal. Most times they try to jack up the already agreed price after the deal is done. I honestly think as soon as you agree to a price they assume they sold too cheap and you'll pay more. The original deal was I'd ride my bike to the shop. Id ride the new bike I was buying back to my place (about 2kms away) with the shop owner following on my bike. If all tested ok, I'd pay him for the bike at my place. Initially they offered a test drive in the lane at the back of their shop which is about 30m long and in the middle of Khon Kaen. I doubt I'd get out of 2nd gear. They continually stressed no warranty, they don't know anything about bikes....don't check them, only buy them from Bangkok and resell. (yeah right with a shop full of 50 bikes). They also don't handle any registration transfer etc, have to do that myself. I wasn't phased as the bike is in such good condition and a decent price.

So after agreeing to that they called back 20 mins later and said I couldn't ride the bike to my home but I could give it a test ride in the soi in front of my home. No problem I thought, I'll follow the guy from the shop on my bike back home, make sure she's not blowing smoke etc and have a ride on the long soi front of my home. At least I can go through all the gears.

20 mins later they ring back again. No go. Have to pay money in the shop 1st before the bike goes out of the shop. Best they would do is a test drive in the back alley (30m long). Just told them to shove it.

Is it so unusual to want a test ride?

As for KK transport department. Have had endless issues with them to get things done and seems everyone gets the same treatment.

I sold my other bike a month ago. I signed all the transfer forms. Gave them copies of my passport inc visa, stay until page etc.

The people went to transfer the rego today. Lady at transport told them they'd not only need a copy of every single page of my passport but me to go in person so they can sight original. They seem to just look for issues. When I got my motorcycle license a dog faced woman there told me I had to get passport photos, medical, letters from immigration. She was supposed to give me a request to take to immigration which she forgot resulting in 6 trips back and forth. Then when we got back where told we didn't need photos or medical as I'd recently done my car license. Just horrible. I thought things would be easier in civilisation but many things aren't.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Kenny202

[Familyonthemove]

The mileage sounded unusually low for the age and the dealer sounds unhelpful - so as the CBR250 is not exactly rare I would look elsewhere.

From my own experience of selling two bikes in Bangkok, test rides don't seem to the norm. Chap turned up with cash, bought it on site, rode it off.

I offered a test ride when selling both bikes, but was told there's no need.

My view - sell your own bike privately, but have a local manage the bartering as even if your Thai is good, people can be shy about bargaining with a foreigner.

Then buy a new bike, ideally a 300. The extra cost of a new CBR over a good used one will not be much. The CBR250 is still a popular bike, so if you see a cheap one, there'll be a reason it's cheap.

On your other questions - they have a sight glass rather than a dip stick, generally trouble free, although some abused ones do have issues.

Also have a look at Kawasaki and Yamaha, and..... although I don't want to start the traditional TV China bike bashing.... a new Benelli could be cheaper than a used Honda.

[nev]

I have bought 2nd hand from one of the road side shops before in Khonkaen, I was allowed to test drive took it for a spin all seemed good so I paid cash, later I discovered it had been in a accident, I would say most of them have and some maybe right offs.

It was a Yamaha GT125 and I still have it now albeit not registered no more and just used around the village.

Would I do again no, try looking on here or Facebook, there is one group called pattaya cars and bikes only, and find a 2nd hand falang owned bike.

[Kenny202]

I have bought 2nd hand from one of the road side shops before in Khonkaen, I was allowed to test drive took it for a spin all seemed good so I paid cash, later I discovered it had been in a accident, I would say most of them have and some maybe right offs.

It was a Yamaha GT125 and I still have it now albeit not registered no more and just used around the village.

Would I do again no, try looking on here or Facebook, there is one group called pattaya cars and bikes only, and find a 2nd hand falang owned bike.

yeah I reckon for the best. Like most Thais just want the deck stacked in their favour 100%. I take all the risk. Like I said bike immaculate and certain k's were genuine but had 3 owners. I'm sure 1 or all of them didn't maintain the bike well. Good advice buy off one owner farang

[MichaelSong]

Second hand prices for a CBR250 have dropped a lot since the new 300 is out. You can buy a good one 3 to 4 years old in the price range 50 - 60K maybe even less if you dont need ABS. That is less than half the price of a new 300.

Personally I also would only buy from Farang , first owner and with service history.

[Kenny202]

Was 58k but I had to take care of all the tfer and no warranty. Was pretty satisfied with the deal and it was in great shape but buy without a 2 min test drive? Nope. Too be honest I bought another bike here without a real test drive. Low tech Kawasaki KLX150 only had 2000km on it and was 2 years old one owner. The transaction felt comfortable so I wasn't worried.

[guzzi850m2]

A 2011 model with 11k on the clock, very unlikely as FOM said, it will be much more than that.

No test ride, <deleted>? I test rode a Honda Cup 70cc, gave them my passport and off I went.

Yes many for sale, the trick is to find one with correct mileage on the clock, one reason many expats stick to new bikes/cars when shopping for one.

[Kenny202]

Like I said I'm certain mileage was genuine. I don't know if they can wind those digital clocks back / reprogram etc? but I guess you could buy a low milage speedo from a wrecker or is the info stored in the bikes chip? Or do u just hook a battery drill up to the cable and go in reverse? I'd like to know the answer to that for the future.

All the areas for wear and tear (pedals, seat etc) were very lightly worn. Could have been dodgy or a dud but I don't think so. Just typical Thai mistrust. I even said to them if I was going to drive off with the bike what difference would it make if it was in front of your shop or my home? Blank stare. All too hard

Edited May 31, 2016 by Kenny202

[Nickymaster]

If you don't have a Thai person with you (who knows how the big transfer stuff works and ALSO speaks good English) buy from farang.

[Happy Grumpy]

There's a shop in KK that brand new TZR150's (2-stroke) for 58k baht.

Search the forum and buy one of them.

2T - more power than the 4T CBR250 and a lot more fun.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Happy Grumpy

[Rhys]

Better to buy new..start your own history...

[papa al]

Like I said I'm certain mileage was genuine. I don't know if they can wind those digital clocks back / reprogram etc? but I guess you could buy a low milage speedo from a wrecker or is the info stored in the bikes chip? Or do u just hook a battery drill up to the cable and go in reverse? I'd like to know the answer to that for the future.

All the areas for wear and tear (pedals, seat etc) were very lightly worn. Could have been dodgy or a dud but I don't think so. Just typical Thai mistrust. I even said to them if I was going to drive off with the bike what difference would it make if it was in front of your shop or my home? Blank stare. All too hard

How can this be true?

[macknife]

Going to your house etc is just hassle for them and never normally done. Test rides are not the norm in this country so you should be thankful they even offered to let you ride it near their shop. I doubt even in the west a salesman would travel to your home to give you a test ride.

If you were happy with the bike and believed the mileage you should have just bought it, it's a Honda and generally speaking they are very reliable. Also repairs in this country are very cheap for that bike. The salesmen in these small shops get very little, if any!, commission at all, so why should they go out of their way to sell you the bike? They simply don't care, if I was on their salary, I wouldn't either.

As far as the mileage goes, it is possible. At the time the 250 came out it was something of a luxury bike and it's quite possible the owner hardly used it. I'm pretty sure clocks can't be tampered with, but as others have said, it could be from another bike or even a new clock was put in at some point. Wear on the rubber pedal or hand grips can sometimes give away the true mileage. Is there a service book?

Remember this is Thailand, many things are done differently here and we just have to accept that.

[MatteoBassini]

Yeah, test rides are unusual, what's stopping you, the test rider, from stealing the bike altogether?

[Kenny202]

Yeah, test rides are unusual, what's stopping you, the test rider, from stealing the bike altogether?

test rides are unusual? On a bike with no guarantee the minute the money's handed over? No guarantee transport dept will approve the bike? I hear you about stealing the bike but I told the guy he could hold my 2015 click, near the same value and in front of my house.

That said, it's not really about whether or not they'll allow test rides. It's about what they agreed to and then systematically went back on what they said. If they told me no test ride in the beginning I wouldn't have went to all the trouble.

Everyone has choices. They made theirs, I made mine

[Kenny202]

Like I said I'm certain mileage was genuine. I don't know if they can wind those digital clocks back / reprogram etc? but I guess you could buy a low milage speedo from a wrecker or is the info stored in the bikes chip? Or do u just hook a battery drill up to the cable and go in reverse? I'd like to know the answer to that for the future.

All the areas for wear and tear (pedals, seat etc) were very lightly worn. Could have been dodgy or a dud but I don't think so. Just typical Thai mistrust. I even said to them if I was going to drive off with the bike what difference would it make if it was in front of your shop or my home? Blank stare. All too hard

How can this be true?

How can what be true?

[papa al]

Like I said I'm certain mileage was genuine. I don't know if they can wind those digital clocks back / reprogram etc? but I guess you could buy a low milage speedo from a wrecker or is the info stored in the bikes chip? Or do u just hook a battery drill up to the cable and go in reverse? I'd like to know the answer to that for the future.

All the areas for wear and tear (pedals, seat etc) were very lightly worn. Could have been dodgy or a dud but I don't think so. Just typical Thai mistrust. I even said to them if I was going to drive off with the bike what difference would it make if it was in front of your shop or my home? Blank stare. All too hard

How can this be true?

How can what be true?

"Like I said I'm certain mileage was genuine."

Given the uncertainty that you iterate later in the paragraph,

how can you be certain that the milage is correct.?

You contradict yourself.

Certainty /100% is very elusive.

Edited June 1, 2016 by papa al

[Kenny202]

Like I said I'm certain mileage was genuine. I don't know if they can wind those digital clocks back / reprogram etc? but I guess you could buy a low milage speedo from a wrecker or is the info stored in the bikes chip? Or do u just hook a battery drill up to the cable and go in reverse? I'd like to know the answer to that for the future.

All the areas for wear and tear (pedals, seat etc) were very lightly worn. Could have been dodgy or a dud but I don't think so. Just typical Thai mistrust. I even said to them if I was going to drive off with the bike what difference would it make if it was in front of your shop or my home? Blank stare. All too hard

How can this be true?

How can what be true?

Yes.

Given the uncertainty what you iterate later in the paragraph,

how can you be certain that the milage is correct.?

You contradict yourself.

Certainty /100% is very elusive.

Well no one is ever 100% or certain buying a used vehicle of course. My feeling is that it looks right. The bike is 5 years old. I just sold a bike I had for 3 years put 1500k's on it so the milage per age on this one for me doesn't seem unusual to me. I just went and looked at one with 20k on it and it did look its age. Chips all over the fairing, dents, pedal wear, seat rip etc

I just dont think its that easy to roll back a digital odometer and I'm not sure throwing a second hand one on with lower mileage works either. I read somewhere the digital odometer is only an electronic display. It gets its info from the bikes CPU which can only be changed by a dealer. Its all possible but I just can't see why someone would go to all that all that effort for a 60k baht bike. If we were talking a used Harley or big bike sure

[burgdawg]

..kenny..save yourself piles of headaches and buy new. A poster mentioned the CBR300---smart move!

Keep a maintenance book. Kon Tai have no idea what a maintenance book is about!

[Kenny202]

Oh well, bit the bullet and swallowed my pride and bought it. People turned out to be very nice. All seems perfect. Took it for a decent ride and feels and looks like a new bike, no dramas. Pop her in for a service tomorrow. By the way, the liquid on the ground isn't coolant or oil, the dog having a swim. 11,000km? You be the judge

Edited June 1, 2016 by Kenny202

[Kenny202]

What's the go with the fuel here? I assumed 95 would be better than 91? Does it all have methanol?

[biker Bob]

Nice bike. I always used 95 on mine, seemed to have a bit more torque.

[johng]

You might have some problems with that exhaust at the DLT and/or police checkpoints did they give you the original ?

95 without methanol is rather hard to find these days.

[Kenny202]

No original. It's not overly noisy to be honest but of course it's not original. If the inspectors are anything like the administration people at KK DLT there'll be a myriad of issues

[johng]

Its not just about the noise the muffler ( not the pipe ) is supposed to have a Thai standard T.I.S stamp on it to be legal.

[Kenny202]

How long do you have to tfer the rego? Bloke I was speaking to this morning didn't seem to think it was a big deal.

[Kenny202]

By the way. Is proof of ownership in the receipt / bill of sale or the registered (tax) owner paper?

[johng]

Technically to be the owner you need your name in the green book.

If you have a receipt from the previous owner and the green book as long as you keep paying tax then there is no big rush to change registration

lots of dealers and a fair few others who only keep bikes for a short time will not bother changing owners in the green book and just give the next buyer all the required paperwork...however there are things that can go wrong when doing that so best to get it in your name as soon as possible.