Tiger’s hides and amulets seized from a truck leaving Tiger’s Temple

[VincentRJ]

Tigers die of natural causes.

Part them out and sell them.

very sensible,profitable also.

This is an important point that seems to have been missed by posters who immediately fly off the handle with indignation and condemnation.

It has to be established whether the tigers, young or old, were deliberately killed in order to make profit. When tigers or tiger cubs die naturally, it's only sensible to try to meet a market demand for such products. This could be considered as a form of Buddhist compassion.

In other words, if there are millions of people who have great faith in the healing properties of tiger-related medicines, does it make sense to simply bury the bodies of animals which might otherwise help those who have that belief in the miraculous benefits of medicines derived from tiger bodies?

The other question, which has yet to be answered, is what happened to the profits from such sales. If they are treated simply as donations to the temple, the Buddhist organisation and its charitable activities, then all's well.

However, if the profits are traced to the bank accounts of individual monks or abbots who use such funds for personal expenses and luxuries, then that is clearly wrong.

[aussieinthailand]

Joust one other question.

During all those years off operation and so many western volunteers why wasn't this exposed years ago?

Surely someone somehow must have seen something.

I know there were calls from conservation groups but a volunteer with direct access must have had some idea about the mistreatment going.

There have been may many calls for this temple of death to be shut down, but Thailand has the laws of deformation and computer crimes that are used against any and all that interfere or make noise against the money machine.

It matters not the truth of an allegation but rather you made me look bad, you made me loose face, and so you will be sued and dragged through court, bank accounts frozen, death threats, harassment, and if your a falang deported after everything you own has been seized.

Talk about reform, have a look at the judicial system and how it is manipulated by the powerful at the price of justice.

Unfortunately I would guess that following the money trail to fined the people that pocketed millions from this evil will just not happen, only a few low sacrificial heads will roll and no one of "influence" will be called to account.

Yet another black mark on the country for the profit of a few.

[Asiantravel]

I have lost all faith respect for anything to do with monks/temples e.t.c.

Nothing matters to monks anymore except getting more money than the next monk.

I never had any faith or respect for them from day one.

It has taken you how long to realise this ?

and that is pretty daunting because it means the binding force that maintained social cohesion has gone. All that is left now is consumerism

Edited June 3, 2016 by Asiantravel

[csabo]

Let's not forget the countless tourists who patronized this temple conveniently ignoring obvious signs it was a tiger concentration camp all along.

[wvavin]

Hope the people from all over the world are aware how Buddhism is operated in Thailand.

[lifeincnx]

I have lost all faith respect for anything to do with monks/temples e.t.c.

Nothing matters to monks anymore except getting more money than the next monk.

I never had any faith or respect for them from day one.

It has taken you how long to realise this ?

and that is pretty daunting because it means the binding force that maintained social cohesion has gone. All that is left now is consumerism

Morality is required for human social structures and human communities to survive at all. Neither the presence nor the absence of any god can change this.

[silent]

Tigers die of natural causes.

Part them out and sell them.

very sensible,profitable also.

True, but truth doesn't matter once under investigation and caught in what looks tainted. It then becomes a true matter of saving as much face as possible and burning any evidence might have made it look less true.

[Brer Fox]

Abbots, monks and temples now up there with the best in the corruption stakes. A close third behind law and disorder and education.

[hobobo]

What has happened to Buddism in Thailand?

I have lost all faith respect for anything to do with monks/temples e.t.c.

MONEY is all monks care about these days MONEY.

Who can get the most money either legally or illegally.

Nothing matters to monks anymore except getting more money than the next monk.

Money from credit unions, money from cheating people, money from keeping/ killing endangered animals.

I've lived and worked in three Buddhist countries for almost 15 years and nowhere have I seen so much corruption and criminal activities as in Buddhist temples and among Buddhist monks in Thailand. Monkhood in Thailand is just a path to riches and an escape from legal and moral obligations

[Winniedapu]

Tigers die of natural causes.

Part them out and sell them.

very sensible,profitable also.

Instead of being part of the solution you are part of the problem.

All of the confiscated items from tiger amulets, tiger carcasses, skins, etc. should be itemized and photographed for the criminal trial of these three. Save a few samples for the trial, but every remaining confiscated item should be burned and destroyed so that not one single item can be resold. This is the only way to help stop perpetuating this heinous problem.

Bravo to the National Parks, Wildlife and Plants Conservation Department, police and army personnel! Keep it up until every one of these crooks is behind bars.

Please get real. If this was a temple that supported the yellow shirts, or was owned by a Thai fat cat like the Cheeravanont family, that manages to acquire billions of US dollars through completely ethical and honest deals, do you think they would have been raided? This is Thailand for God's sake. Thailand rarely works at all, but when it does, it doesn't work that way.

Wake up and smell the roses. No offence, but honestly...

W

Edited June 3, 2016 by Winniedapu

[maddermax]

It is good to see that nobody is outside the law since the army took over. For too long now the temple monks around Thailand have been getting away with too much. An example is the amount of noise that comes out of the temples at certain times of the year 24 hours a day. Previously, complaints to the police fell on deaf ears but since the coup they appear to be behaving better.

[ratcatcher]

Some more pictures of the Abbotoir at the Tiger Temple.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=tiger+temple&rlz=1C1GNAM_enTH684TH684&espv=2&biw=1360&bih=599&tbm=isch&imgil=bQ463pw3yt4AOM%253A%253Bb0rsSTZAJC6QbM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.travelonline.com%25252Fthailand%25252Finformation%25252Ftiger-temple.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=bQ463pw3yt4AOM%253A%252Cb0rsSTZAJC6QbM%252C_&usg=__mdcBVSkx4HPSjLDszna2epbJwDo%3D&ved=0ahUKEwiNyvXu7IrNAhWJrY8KHbdqCTkQyjcILg&ei=xfBQV83TDYnbvgS31aXIAw#imgdii=bQ463pw3yt4AOM%3A%3BbQ463pw3yt4AOM%3A%3BIZjt7dfBt2Ct1M%3A&imgrc=bQ463pw3yt4AOM%3A

[exalll]

Tigers die of natural causes.

Part them out and sell them.

very sensible,profitable also.

This is an important point that seems to have been missed by posters who immediately fly off the handle with indignation and condemnation.

It has to be established whether the tigers, young or old, were deliberately killed in order to make profit. When tigers or tiger cubs die naturally, it's only sensible to try to meet a market demand for such products. This could be considered as a form of Buddhist compassion.

In other words, if there are millions of people who have great faith in the healing properties of tiger-related medicines, does it make sense to simply bury the bodies of animals which might otherwise help those who have that belief in the miraculous benefits of medicines derived from tiger bodies?

The other question, which has yet to be answered, is what happened to the profits from such sales. If they are treated simply as donations to the temple, the Buddhist organisation and its charitable activities, then all's well.

However, if the profits are traced to the bank accounts of individual monks or abbots who use such funds for personal expenses and luxuries, then that is clearly wrong.

Please read post # 29

[Winniedapu]

Abbots, monks and temples now up there with the best in the corruption stakes. A close third behind law and disorder and education.

Corrruption cheating and dishonesty permeate Thai society and culture completely. Why on earth would buddhism be any different, it's been known for years that criminals and prostitutes get sanctuary in wats across the nation and earn good money from alms bestowing the odd bogus blessing to make the uneducated and stupid believe they won't came back as cockroaches in the next life.

Someone has set a very bad example in a quest to acquire money to make their institution powerful instead of redundant.

W

Edited June 3, 2016 by Winniedapu

[mesterm]

holy crap. i was keeping an open mind, but this is very hard to explain.

You must have a very open mind.

[cumgranosalum]

Tigers die of natural causes.

Part them out and sell them.

very sensible,profitable also.

This is an important point that seems to have been missed by posters who immediately fly off the handle with indignation and condemnation.

It has to be established whether the tigers, young or old, were deliberately killed in order to make profit. When tigers or tiger cubs die naturally, it's only sensible to try to meet a market demand for such products. This could be considered as a form of Buddhist compassion.

In other words, if there are millions of people who have great faith in the healing properties of tiger-related medicines, does it make sense to simply bury the bodies of animals which might otherwise help those who have that belief in the miraculous benefits of medicines derived from tiger bodies?

The other question, which has yet to be answered, is what happened to the profits from such sales. If they are treated simply as donations to the temple, the Buddhist organisation and its charitable activities, then all's well.

However, if the profits are traced to the bank accounts of individual monks or abbots who use such funds for personal expenses and luxuries, then that is clearly wrong.

Can you describe any death from an illegal breeding program as natural.

as for your theories on TCM - it has already been shown time and again that allowing endangered animal parts onto the market only increases demand and pressure on those endangered species.

TCM has to be shown to be the scam it is.

furthermore those involved in the smuggling of these parts are the very same who smuggle arms, drugs and people - it is not a nice industry.

There have already bee estimates of the temple's income, but as with all temples it is normal for them to receive donations in CASH - so it will be hugely difficult to account for moneys - especially if it comes from international crime cartels.....short of finding wads of the stuff in a freezer or somewhere.

[cumgranosalum]

It is good to see that nobody is outside the law since the army took over. For too long now the temple monks around Thailand have been getting away with too much. An example is the amount of noise that comes out of the temples at certain times of the year 24 hours a day. Previously, complaints to the police fell on deaf ears but since the coup they appear to be behaving better.

interesting viewpoint - I'd suggest it would be more accurate to suggest that a different set of people remain outside the law......... and as for the Abbot - he still appears to be well out of reach of any long arm...so far and has been since the Junta came to power.

[cumgranosalum]

holy crap. i was keeping an open mind, but this is very hard to explain.

You must have a very open mind.

so open it fell out?

[Srikcir]

With these recent disclosures Prayut will need to wait two lifetimes before allowing prosecution of monks from this wat.

[Winniedapu]

It is good to see that nobody is outside the law since the army took over. For too long now the temple monks around Thailand have been getting away with too much. An example is the amount of noise that comes out of the temples at certain times of the year 24 hours a day. Previously, complaints to the police fell on deaf ears but since the coup they appear to be behaving better.

Right. Got that.

W

[ddavidovsky]

Tigers die of natural causes.

Part them out and sell them.

very sensible,profitable also.

Instead of being part of the solution you are part of the problem.

All of the confiscated items from tiger amulets, tiger carcasses, skins, etc. should be itemized and photographed for the criminal trial of these three. Save a few samples for the trial, but every remaining confiscated item should be burned and destroyed so that not one single item can be resold. This is the only way to help stop perpetuating this heinous problem.

Bravo to the National Parks, Wildlife and Plants Conservation Department, police and army personnel! Keep it up until every one of these crooks is behind bars.

I'm sure you mean well, but that is naive. The root of the problem is the demand in China, not the supply. Chinese demand will exist regardless because of their deep-rooted superstitions, which is part of their culture and fairly ineradicable (unfortunately). If the supply reduces, then the price of animal parts will get higher, and the demand will only increase because of the scarcity cachet. Criminalising both the supply and the demand only pushes it underground - a lesson that was clear from alcohol prohibition in the 1920s. In any case, if tigers became completely extinct, then the trade would transfer onto another species.

This is the truly heinous problem and it will not go away for a few generations. Blanket publicity campaigns in China could help vilify old-fashioned superstitions, but of course, there are high-ups in China too who have a vested interest in perpetuating this trade.

I don't join the torch-and-pitchfork brigade in ranting about this temple. Everybody knows the place - among many others - has been involved in trafficking. Not to do so would be for them to effectively burn money, and if you know anything about human nature, you'll know that people are good at convincing themselves that corruption is less immoral than poverty. But the thing is, there's a real moral dilemma for those advocating closing down all places that breed of tigers: the demand from China will then be satisfied by wild tigers, and that would be a much bigger catastrophe. Think carefully about what you wish for.

Edited June 3, 2016 by ddavidovsky

[GAZZPA]

Catalogue everything illegal burn it then demolish the temple as it was used for nothing else but a money making exercise to profit off the suffering and exploitation of these beautiful animals.

Nothing to do with the Buddhist faith and for those who have lost their jobs well off to the bangkok Hilton to reflect on what cruelty they have inflicted on these noble beasts for some superstitious beliefs ,

Absolutely right, there will be a lot of true Buddhists disgusted in the behaviour of these people. A little jail time and confiscation of assets gained will serve as a good example to others.

It is good to see the authorities acting decisively on this, even to the point of installing a road block to catch this "Monk" and his accomplices trying to flee with goods.

An education to the idiots who believe these superstitions about "magic" tiger amulets and ridiculous medicines would also be warranted.

Why is it that these so called super medicines are all obtained from dangerous and / or endangered animals? Why can it not be the magic amulet comes from a pickled earthworm? There are plenty of idiots in the World who believe anything.

[VincentRJ]

Tigers die of natural causes.

Part them out and sell them.

very sensible,profitable also.

This is an important point that seems to have been missed by posters who immediately fly off the handle with indignation and condemnation.

It has to be established whether the tigers, young or old, were deliberately killed in order to make profit. When tigers or tiger cubs die naturally, it's only sensible to try to meet a market demand for such products. This could be considered as a form of Buddhist compassion.

In other words, if there are millions of people who have great faith in the healing properties of tiger-related medicines, does it make sense to simply bury the bodies of animals which might otherwise help those who have that belief in the miraculous benefits of medicines derived from tiger bodies?

The other question, which has yet to be answered, is what happened to the profits from such sales. If they are treated simply as donations to the temple, the Buddhist organisation and its charitable activities, then all's well.

However, if the profits are traced to the bank accounts of individual monks or abbots who use such funds for personal expenses and luxuries, then that is clearly wrong.

Please read post # 29

Post #29 seems devoid of any facts whatsoever, or references to facts. It seems to be just a biased diatribe.

I'm only persuaded by facts. If the Thai judicial system is not up to your standards, then that's another issue.

Prejudging a case is a common occurrence, in all countries, and is a real problem for trials with juries. People generally tend to respond with emotions, unsupported by the facts.

[Sydebolle]

Police in Jomtien ransack a bar without search warrant, confiscate music playing devices and force the manager to shell out B50'000.
Only upon presentation of the valid "license to play music in public" (with the manager's wife at the time of the illegal raid) the equipment is released and the manager can, without an apology, go back. No official complaint filed with the police against the police.

Now, if I get this right, this temple could be turned upside down within a few hours and a search warrant would be definitely in order.

Confused, confused, confused, confused

[johnhw]

Attention Buddha Bashers: Imagine a WestVisa website popular among Thias. Now imagine a news item about the concealment from the civil authorities of child-molesting priests by a disgustingly filthy rich Farang religion. Maybe an item about the victimization of the elderly, lonely and desperate by evangelical TV thieves, or perhaps an item about Freddie Phelps' Christians demonstrating their hate for Gays.

Draw some interesting comments, huh?

(let the tap-dancing begin)

[sambum]

Even though it took far too long for this to finally be exposed to the public, although most of us knew something was going on in one form or another at this despicable place, I will say congratulations to the Thai authorities for finally getting off your lazy asses and doing something about it.

Ohhh please! The way it is looking the temple will be back in business in a year or 2 now that they have been given a zoo license. Only this time they will be operating legally to the government and no one will question what is happening in the back rooms there. Do you really think that this will end simply because a they are cracking down there right now? There is too much money to be made and lost and too many people who were getting some hefty envelopes that turned a blind eye to what was happening there before. These actions now are just a minor inconvenience and a delay in their profits. Until the government arrests everyone there including the Abbott that told the monk to deliver those skins and amulets and tears that temple down. Notice in the article they were moving those items to an undisclosed location and they don't mention any names who gave the offer to get them out of the temple. Even now the gigs up the monk's are trying to salvage their money makers for the future. A shame and disgrace for all Thai Buddhism but, then again, they are not the only ones perverting their religion.

Yes, the key words here are "undisclosed location" and "no names mentioned". Of course, it may be that there may be another location that is next on the places to be visited by Wildlife/Conservation Officers, and they don't want to give advance warning! Or, it may be that advance warning HAS been given so that the decks can be cleared, so to speak! What do you think?

[Winniedapu]

Police in Jomtien ransack a bar without search warrant, confiscate music playing devices and force the manager to shell out B50'000.

Only upon presentation of the valid "license to play music in public" (with the manager's wife at the time of the illegal raid) the equipment is released and the manager can, without an apology, go back. No official complaint filed with the police against the police.

Now, if I get this right, this temple could be turned upside down within a few hours and a search warrant would be definitely in order.

Confused, confused, confused, confused

I can help you with that.

Thainess.

W

[meatboy]

Maybe the policemen here could send a quick memo to Mr P, titled, 'how to arrest a monk'.

yes TDKK you know the police have a unique no.u can call to report any wrong doing its thailand 5555 ex 555.

[VincentRJ]

Tigers die of natural causes.

Part them out and sell them.

very sensible,profitable also.

This is an important point that seems to have been missed by posters who immediately fly off the handle with indignation and condemnation.

It has to be established whether the tigers, young or old, were deliberately killed in order to make profit. When tigers or tiger cubs die naturally, it's only sensible to try to meet a market demand for such products. This could be considered as a form of Buddhist compassion.

In other words, if there are millions of people who have great faith in the healing properties of tiger-related medicines, does it make sense to simply bury the bodies of animals which might otherwise help those who have that belief in the miraculous benefits of medicines derived from tiger bodies?

The other question, which has yet to be answered, is what happened to the profits from such sales. If they are treated simply as donations to the temple, the Buddhist organisation and its charitable activities, then all's well.

However, if the profits are traced to the bank accounts of individual monks or abbots who use such funds for personal expenses and luxuries, then that is clearly wrong.

Can you describe any death from an illegal breeding program as natural.

I wasn't aware that breeding tigers in Kanchanaburi was illegal. Please provide a link.

If a species are serving a benefit for mankind, then the species should be taken care of, and ensured it does not become extinct, unlike malaria-carrying mosquitoes.

The monks in Kanchanaburi were not going out to kill tigers in their natural habitat, as happens with elephants and Rhinoceros in Africa. They were breeding the tigers themselves. Having bred them, it would be against Buddhist principle to kill them for any purpose. However, making practical use of the dead tigers who have died naturally, is a different matter.

There have already been estimates of the temple's income, but as with all temples it is normal for them to receive donations in CASH - so it will be hugely difficult to account for moneys - especially if it comes from international crime cartels.....short of finding wads of the stuff in a freezer or somewhere.

If that's the true situation then no case can be made until the system is changed, and/or real evidence of corruption is revealed. One is innocent until proved guilty. You must be aware of that.

[dageurreotype]

Abbots, monks and temples now up there with the best in the corruption stakes. A close third behind law and disorder and education.

Corrruption cheating and dishonesty permeate Thai society and culture completely. Why on earth would buddhism be any different, it's been known for years that criminals and prostitutes get sanctuary in wats across the nation and earn good money from alms bestowing the odd bogus blessing to make the uneducated and stupid believe they won't came back as cockroaches in the next life.

Someone has set a very bad example in a quest to acquire money to make their institution powerful instead of redundant.

W

It isn't only the 'uneducated and stupid' who have no clue as to what Buddhism actually means. I asked a Thai architect to explain Buddhism as he saw it 'Well, if you step on a cockroach you may come back as one' 'And?' 'That's it'

Thailand could take a look at Bhutan, you remember, that tiny kingdom they were all over some years ago .. http://qz.com/467852/this-tiny-himalayan-kingdom-is-teaching-the-world-how-to-save-the-tigers/