Gen Prawit hints at curbs on UDD’s anti-cheating centres

[Baerboxer]

"General Prawit said that there is no need for the UDD or any political groups to set up centres to monitor the referendum in order to prevent possible cheating because there are two already two agencies responsible for monitoring the referendum namely the Election Commission and the government sector’s Anti-Corruption Commission.’"

Both of which are lapdogs of a government widely believed to be illegal.

"He also dismissed any suggestion of bringing in foreign observers to observe the referendum, saying that referendum is an internal affairs of Thailand."

We can understand how strongly the dumpy general feels about referenda being internal matters for countries, by the fact that this government was happy to send a team of observers and hangers-on on a junket and shopping trip observation mission to Edinburgh in September 2014. Not so squeamish then I notice - he must have had a change of heart recently.

Winnie

Nonsense. Who believes this government to be illegal? Apart from the usual little band of Shin fans who post such drivel on TVF.

[Baerboxer]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Foreign observers seem to be somewhat confused about Thai election games. So no need for them.

"An Asian election monitoring group has hailed Thailand's nationwide election as final results were tallied for being generally peaceful, orderly and allowing the public to express their voice. But, theAsian Network for Free Elections also cited some flaws in the polls and warned the Thai military not to intervene in politics. "

http://www.voanews.com/content/asian-observer-group-commends-thai-election-cites-minor-flaws--125003034/141777.html

"Having served as a short-term international observer for the general election in Thailand earlier this month on July 3, I unfortunately became somewhat of an expert in the dark arts of vote buying.

As one of 60 observers from the Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL) deployed around the country, I spent eight days in Chonburi province in the lead-up to election day. Located just a little east of Bangkok, Chonburi is home to Kamnan Poh, the notorious godfather who once declared, I used to have enemies in Chonburi, but they all died. "

http://asiafoundation.org/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Translated: I know you know I'm a junta-hugger, but if I say I am, then you won't take me seriously.

So

This time, I'll say I'm not a junta-hugger so you'll take what I say seriously and forget all my posts for the last however many months.

Seriously, you can believe me. Honest. Promise. Cross my heart and hope to die.

ps I love Yingluck and I want to have her babies. No, wait, that's not right...

Winnie

ps Not a junta-hugger... dear oh dear...

I think you might find that what he means is either 'I am not ORDINARILY a supporter of juntas with the exception of this one' or 'I do not accept the fact that the Thai junta is a junta'.

I like the rest of what you had to say, however.

Let's accuse any who dare challenge the Shin might and their entitlement to do as they please to be Junta huggers! That might divert the topic and any discussions that go against the Shins.

Who believes the UDD, with their non elected mysteriously appointed leaders, who all happen to be Shin lackeys, many of whom are facing court cases, have been convicted and are known liars, are really capable of telling the truth about anything?

Do you?

An attempt to sow the seeds of dissent, plea for foreign support to hopefully negate a result they might not like, from a bunch of mongrels who were living it up at the people's expense as part of the Shin gang. They want their place controlling the trough back and nowt else.

There is nothing remotely democratic about the UDD or their Shin masters for that matter. Laughable that anyone would think a bunch of crooks should police anything.

Disliking an imposed Junta is one thing. Pretending the UDD are honest democrats is another - and ridiculous.

[Baerboxer]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Foreign observers seem to be somewhat confused about Thai election games. So no need for them.

"An Asian election monitoring group has hailed Thailand's nationwide election as final results were tallied for being generally peaceful, orderly and allowing the public to express their voice. But, theAsian Network for Free Elections also cited some flaws in the polls and warned the Thai military not to intervene in politics. "

http://www.voanews.com/content/asian-observer-group-commends-thai-election-cites-minor-flaws--125003034/141777.html

"Having served as a short-term international observer for the general election in Thailand earlier this month on July 3, I unfortunately became somewhat of an expert in the dark arts of vote buying.

As one of 60 observers from the Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL) deployed around the country, I spent eight days in Chonburi province in the lead-up to election day. Located just a little east of Bangkok, Chonburi is home to Kamnan Poh, the notorious godfather who once declared, I used to have enemies in Chonburi, but they all died. "

http://asiafoundation.org/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Translated: I know you know I'm a junta-hugger, but if I say I am, then you won't take me seriously.

So

This time, I'll say I'm not a junta-hugger so you'll take what I say seriously and forget all my posts for the last however many months.

Seriously, you can believe me. Honest. Promise. Cross my heart and hope to die.

ps I love Yingluck and I want to have her babies. No, wait, that's not right...

Winnie

ps Not a junta-hugger... dear oh dear...

I think you might find that what he means is either 'I am not ORDINARILY a supporter of juntas with the exception of this one' or 'I do not accept the fact that the Thai junta is a junta'.

I like the rest of what you had to say, however.

Let's accuse any who dare challenge the Shin might and their entitlement to do as they please to be Junta huggers! That might divert the topic and any discussions that go against the Shins.

Who believes the UDD, with their non elected mysteriously appointed leaders, who all happen to be Shin lackeys, many of whom are facing court cases, have been convicted and are known liars, are really capable of telling the truth about anything?

Do you?

An attempt to sow the seeds of dissent, plea for foreign support to hopefully negate a result they might not like, from a bunch of mongrels who were living it up at the people's expense as part of the Shin gang. They want their place controlling the trough back and nowt else.

There is nothing remotely democratic about the UDD or their Shin masters for that matter. Laughable that anyone would think a bunch of crooks should police anything.

Disliking an imposed Junta is one thing. Pretending the UDD are honest democrats is another - and ridiculous.

[baboon]

^^

All very interesting I'm sure, but all we were doing was calling into question rubl's use of the phrase "Not a junta supporter".

Perhaps a little decaff next time the kettle boils?

Edit: In response to your post 65, obviously.

Edited June 14, 2016 by baboon

[Baerboxer]

I guess your making a mistake on purpose because your not stupid.

Did the Thais go there as observers to check if the elections were done fairly or to observe the process to learn from it. ?

Here they are asking for observers to check if elections are done fairly.. totally different thing. So there is nothing to reciprocate.

The two things are clearly different even a blind man could see.. unless there was some red paint in their eyes.

Going on a study trip to learn from someones elections or to be official observers to see if the elections are done fairly and report on it.

I am not against observers.. just against your argument that is flawed.

Also.. I remember dear leader (Thaksin) hating observers, the UN is not my father

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Thaksin_Shinawatra

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

What were the rest of your reasons?

Not my reasons (looking through their eyes), but you stay awfully silent on my arguments... you agree you were wrong ?

Other reasons could be giving up some sovereignty and nobody likes it when others are checking what they do (i know i dislike it).

Plus of course no Thai government has ever let observers come your beloved Thaksin was against them just as much.

I say let them come but then let them also check all elections when PTP are in power and comment on the problems democrats have with their safety when campaigning in red territories. Might be good to have them here so all parties keep to the law. But to be honest I really doubt it will happen.

Agree with you Rob. Countries don't want foreigners coming and checking them. It's an admission that their still third world, can't organize or control things etc.

Almost harps back to colonial thinking that only certain superior countries could be trusted to do things honestly.

The government has talked about reform, wish they'd get on with it, and going to observe other countries' elections and referendums is a good way of learning about alternative processes, procedures, and structures. I believe the German government invited Thailand to send observers to German elections.

As far as I can see, there has not been copious allegations of procedural irregularities in Thai elections before. Vote buying, voter intimidation and coercion prior to the vote, and dirty tricks with all sorts of allegations afterwards by the losers, usually about some obscure rule being broken or the winning candidates character, but not much if anything questioning the actual procedure.

Just another attempt by the Shins to turn the whole thing into a circus so they can try and invalidate a vote if it's not to their liking. They only like elections when the result favors them.

[Baerboxer]

^^

All very interesting I'm sure, but all we were doing was calling into question rubl's use of the phrase "Not a junta supporter".

Perhaps a little decaff next time the kettle boils?

Edit: In response to your post 65, obviously.

So it's ok for you to accuse Rubl of lying, and being something he's says he's not?

Perhaps a dose of humility might be in order for some.

Do you believe the UDD leadership to be honest?

Or is that a question you'd prefer not to answer?

Edited June 14, 2016 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

There is a violent organisation close by and intimidating. But most people would have a clearer idea what that might be than the crazies.

The Red Shirt paramilitaries, their mysterious mates in black that Chalerm wanted to pretend never existed, or perhaps the cooperative RTP that did little to prevent the former's activities and even less to apprehend them?

Only the crazies want to pretend it's all one sided.

[sjaak327]

Does anyone actually believe the outcome will be different from what the military wants it to be? To many eyes......not easy to ensure the correct result

Misdirection, that's what they want you to think, that it's complicated. xyz million ballot papers, xyz different voting locations, xyz different counting stations, xyz staff doing the counting. If there is fraud, it will be in the downstream places, where there is less complexity.

They want you to concentrate on the electorate and the process of ticking in the boxes because that's where the head-spinning numbers are.

What they don't want you to concentrate on is what happens to the the voting machines or what happens downstream from the counting rooms. There are various possibilities, would be easier to spot the weak spots with a process map.

That's why they don't want observers, they don't care about the voting stations, little chance for widespread falsification there that won't eventually come out, but they don't want observers at the points where small groups of people summarise the counted votes. They can't pick and choose where and what the foreign observers observe, so they ban them outright. The only reason for banning foreign observers is that they know what's going to happen.

W

Although stated as fact and true, it's actually only your subjective opinion. And that of a few other posters here of course.

My opinion is that foreign observers don't see the wheeling and dealing before the referendum, neither do they understand the threat of having a violent organisation which is against the charter close by and intimidating in their presence. There are still 'red village' were everyone is a red shirt as declared by the UDD. Free choice, my foot." My opinion is that foreign observers don't see the wheeling and dealing before the referendum, neither do they understand the threat of having a violent organisation which is against the charter close by and intimidating in their presence."

No, they are complete idiots of course.

" There are still 'red village' were everyone is a red shirt as declared by the UDD. Free choice, my foot."

OK, I'm sure you can back this statement up with proof?

No proof, but I think the villages are still red.

As for 'all are red', of course, UDD and various red shirt leaders told us so. Dr. weng learned all about freedom of choice when he was in Vietnam in the 70sh. A visible political arm and the invisible other arm for control.

Anyway this is about why there's no need for either foreign or UDD observers.

The trouble is, that you just say there is no need. So far without one compelling argument.

There is one very compelling argument to have observers. There is a good chance that the people who instigated this referendum are going to cheat.

They cheated themselves into power, have since introduced the referendum act which pervents normal debate on the charter and they will not stop to get the yes vote they so desire.

By the way, it might be good to point out that PT or the UDD aren't the only ones that oppose this charter. Over at the yellow side of the fence, the Democrats have opposed it too.

Ironically this might be the junta's biggest achievement yet, they have finally managed to have PT and the Democrats agee on something !

Edited June 14, 2016 by sjaak327

[baboon]

^^

All very interesting I'm sure, but all we were doing was calling into question rubl's use of the phrase "Not a junta supporter".

Perhaps a little decaff next time the kettle boils?

Edit: In response to your post 65, obviously.

So it's ok for you to accuse Rubl of lying, and being something he's says he's not?

Perhaps a dose of humility might be in order for some.

Do you believe the UDD leadership to be honest?

Or is that a question you'd prefer not to answer?

Lying? Where did I accuse him of that? Mendacious, certainly, but too cunning to be an out and out liar.

"Do you believe the UDD leadership to be honest?

Or is that a question you'd prefer not to answer?"

Sure I'll answer this, but I don't think you are going to like it...

The fact is you could put a pistol to my head (bet that prospect has brightened the day of a few of you on here) and I would still not actually be able to tell you who the UDD leadership are, so I am really not in a position to speculate on their honesty. I spend little to no time every day thinking about them, to be frank with you.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all to discover they are just as dishonest as the present crew running the show.

How's that?

Edited June 14, 2016 by baboon

[Winniedapu]

"General Prawit said that there is no need for the UDD or any political groups to set up centres to monitor the referendum in order to prevent possible cheating because there are two already two agencies responsible for monitoring the referendum namely the Election Commission and the government sector’s Anti-Corruption Commission.’"

Both of which are lapdogs of a government widely believed to be illegal.

"He also dismissed any suggestion of bringing in foreign observers to observe the referendum, saying that referendum is an internal affairs of Thailand."

We can understand how strongly the dumpy general feels about referenda being internal matters for countries, by the fact that this government was happy to send a team of observers and hangers-on on a junket and shopping trip observation mission to Edinburgh in September 2014. Not so squeamish then I notice - he must have had a change of heart recently.

Winnie

Nonsense. Who believes this government to be illegal? Apart from the usual little band of Shin fans who post such drivel on TVF.

Well you're well and truly outnumbered on TVF I venture to suggest. As to the rest, an election would tell a story. But of course, this illegal government had to put the fix in before it will allow an election. That's what Meechai's job was, to rort the constitution of the country to make sure vested interests still rule. As he did once before as I recall, with consequences as disastrous for the country as I predict will come again. But no matter, he's a 'good' man, he tells everyone he loves the right people; wheel him out again to wreak his baleful influence on 54 million Thais. I suspect this time, some people have other ideas.

Want to discuss the legality of this government rationally? I'd be happy if you would, its an easy win for me.

But I guess we'll see who laughs last...

W

Edited June 14, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Winniedapu]

Does anyone actually believe the outcome will be different from what the military wants it to be? To many eyes......not easy to ensure the correct result

Misdirection, that's what they want you to think, that it's complicated. xyz million ballot papers, xyz different voting locations, xyz different counting stations, xyz staff doing the counting. If there is fraud, it will be in the downstream places, where there is less complexity.

They want you to concentrate on the electorate and the process of ticking in the boxes because that's where the head-spinning numbers are.

What they don't want you to concentrate on is what happens to the the voting machines or what happens downstream from the counting rooms. There are various possibilities, would be easier to spot the weak spots with a process map.

That's why they don't want observers, they don't care about the voting stations, little chance for widespread falsification there that won't eventually come out, but they don't want observers at the points where small groups of people summarise the counted votes. They can't pick and choose where and what the foreign observers observe, so they ban them outright. The only reason for banning foreign observers is that they know what's going to happen.

W

Although stated as fact and true, it's actually only your subjective opinion. And that of a few other posters here of course.

My opinion is that foreign observers don't see the wheeling and dealing before the referendum, neither do they understand the threat of having a violent organisation which is against the charter close by and intimidating in their presence. There are still 'red village' were everyone is a red shirt as declared by the UDD. Free choice, my foot.

"Although stated as fact and true, it's actually only your subjective opinion."

90% of what you say is also opinion, friend, people in glass houses should not throw stones.

90% of what else is said in this forum is also opinion, viewpoint, conclusion, it's all subjective.

Yours was a silly point to make really, didn't do your street-cred any favours.

W

[jayboy]

There is a violent organisation close by and intimidating. But most people would have a clearer idea what that might be than the crazies.

The Red Shirt paramilitaries, their mysterious mates in black that Chalerm wanted to pretend never existed, or perhaps the cooperative RTP that did little to prevent the former's activities and even less to apprehend them?

Only the crazies want to pretend it's all one sided.

Oh dear.It's back to the elusive men in black for those stranded by events and at loss for a rational and structured approach.They don't seem to have noticed many of their former comrades in the battle against The Great Satan are depressed and angry by the obstinacy and incompetence of the Junta

As to the forthcoming Charter I have no doubt there will be some group think characteristics in Isaan and the North but it requires a special kind of myopia to believe this in any way is equivalent to the nation wide propaganda the regime has under way - essentially banning all free discussion.

[heybruce]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

"Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before."

It was allowed in the 2011 election, and gave the results credibility. Much to the disappointment of Prayut, the Democrats, and others.

"Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective."

I agree.

[Winniedapu]

UUD will have no access to monitor anything so this is complete nonsense

What they might be able to do is intimidate people into voting a certain way

At the end of the day they have no right mandate or authority to do anything except spew out garbage under the payroll and direction of their convicted criminal master

someone should shut them up once and for all, they are an unelected unwanted or needed disruptive divisive element in Thai society

If that is indeed the opinion of Thai society, why any need for panic if nobody is interested in them? Why should they forcibly be silenced? Why not just let them piss in the wind and then fade away, unnoticed and uncared about?

Surely that would be a feather in the cap of the current democracy enablers, to shrug and simply let them get on with it as they are a busted flush anyway?

they have guns bombs and grenades and have used them on a regular basis, democracy UUD style

"they have guns bombs and grenades and used them on a regular basis, democracy UDD style".

Now if you replaced the UDD and inserted Junta and yellow shirts then your comment would be just as accurate, but you choose to only accuse (the reds/UDD) of this when there is plenty of video evidence out there that the military and yellow supporter's are quite ready and do in fact use guns bombs and grenades on people.

As I recall, that was in retaliation by redshirts for being attacked. Of course, that's what Suthep and his cronies were agitating for, but I can't see it was an option to turn the other cheek..

A fine point perhaps for juntaphiles.

W

Edited June 14, 2016 by Winniedapu

[heybruce]

during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power

Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections

there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin

Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol

Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions, usually it is the Thai people but since they were generally ignored when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists while the police were told to do nothing, I see this as a reasonable compromise and a necessary one.

"during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power"

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Is it Suthep's ridiculous demand that an elected government step down so an unnamed counsel be allowed to implement unspecified reforms while the country was governed by...who?

"Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections"

The charter hasn't been approved by the Thai people. If there is no international monitoring of the referendum there will be questions about the results. It remains to be seen when, or if, there will be elections. It the charter is approved the concern is the elections will be for show and power will remain in the hands of the unelected.

Nobody here wants to hand power to the unelected UDD. Some people here want power to remain in the hands of the unelected military and those it represents.

[heybruce]

"General Prawit said that there is no need for the UDD or any political groups to set up centres to monitor the referendum in order to prevent possible cheating because there are two already two agencies responsible for monitoring the referendum namely the Election Commission and the government sector’s Anti-Corruption Commission.’"

Both of which are lapdogs of a government widely believed to be illegal.

"He also dismissed any suggestion of bringing in foreign observers to observe the referendum, saying that referendum is an internal affairs of Thailand."

We can understand how strongly the dumpy general feels about referenda being internal matters for countries, by the fact that this government was happy to send a team of observers and hangers-on on a junket and shopping trip observation mission to Edinburgh in September 2014. Not so squeamish then I notice - he must have had a change of heart recently.

Winnie

Nonsense. Who believes this government to be illegal? Apart from the usual little band of Shin fans who post such drivel on TVF.

Well, if one believes that a government installed by an illegal coup is illegal:

"Parliament expresses its concerns at the "deteriorating human rights situation in Thailand following the illegal coup of May 2014" and urges the Thai authorities to lift repressive restrictions on the right to liberty and the peaceful exercise of other human rights." http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20151002IPR95368/Human-rights-Saudi-Arabia-Nigeria-Central-African-Republic-and-Thailand

"Leaders on both sides of the Atlantic have been essentially condoning and silently supporting an illegal coup in Thailand." http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2015/06/26/how-the-west-helped-thailand-became-a-dictatorship/

[heybruce]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Not a junta supporter but I hope you don't mind I answer this question.

Foreign observers seem to be somewhat confused about Thai election games. So no need for them.

"An Asian election monitoring group has hailed Thailand's nationwide election as final results were tallied for being generally peaceful, orderly and allowing the public to express their voice. But, theAsian Network for Free Elections also cited some flaws in the polls and warned the Thai military not to intervene in politics. "

http://www.voanews.com/content/asian-observer-group-commends-thai-election-cites-minor-flaws--125003034/141777.html

"Having served as a short-term international observer for the general election in Thailand earlier this month on July 3, I unfortunately became somewhat of an expert in the dark arts of vote buying.

As one of 60 observers from the Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL) deployed around the country, I spent eight days in Chonburi province in the lead-up to election day. Located just a little east of Bangkok, Chonburi is home to Kamnan Poh, the notorious godfather who once declared, “I used to have enemies in Chonburi, but they all died.” "

http://asiafoundation.org/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

Actually the headline of your first reference says it all: "Asian Observer Group Commends Thai Election, Cites Minor Flaws". The election wasn't perfect, but it reflected the will of the voters.

No election is perfect. However there is no evidence that vote buying was more prevalent on one side or the other in past elections, or that it affected outcomes of national elections. However if people are concerned about vote buying or other forms of cheating during the referendum they should welcome outside observers.

Can you explain how not having international election observers will make for a more credible vote?

[Winniedapu]

Can one of the junta supporters please step in and explain why banning foreign observers is a good thing?

Not expecting an answer of course, but miracles do sometime happen...

Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before. Even when the democrats wanted them the PTP /TRT did not. So its not a junta thing its a Thai thing.

Its a big loss of face when you allow foreign observers, that is one of the reasons why not.

Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective. I wonder what the observers would have said when Democrats could not go in the campaign red lands without fear of their life.

Anyway.. just let them in .. but then always.

"Its a great thing, but no Thai government has ever allowed this before."

It was allowed in the 2011 election, and gave the results credibility. Much to the disappointment of Prayut, the Democrats, and others.

"Id say allow foreign observers but then allow them always also when other Thai governments are in place. Not selective."

I agree.

Which is exactly the opposite of what they fear if they do it again this time.

All the froth and bubble about foreign observers is just that, froth and bubble. Lots of countries allow observers for elections and referenda.

The upside of saying 'no' is that the government asserts it's 'national sovereignty' (face) har har...

The downside is that nobody gives a damn about Thailand's 'national sovereignty' anyway (unless they've got a funny hat and some big boots), and a refusal to submit to foreign observation means the elections will not be taken seriously, and will likely be assumed to have been fraudulent.

It's a genuine lose/lose situation for Dumpy and Grumpy, the modern equivalent of Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee. Or Dumb and Dumber, Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello etc etc. Take yer pick. If they can find another muppet of the same IQ they could give The three Stooges a run for their money in the 'how to look completely ridiculous' show - Prem perhaps?

Anyway, Thailand surrendered it's 'national sovereignty' to the Japanese about 20 minutes after the first platoon of Japanese soldiers fronted up on the Thai border anyway so they should stop bleating about it and grow a pair.

W

Edited June 14, 2016 by Winniedapu

[smedly]

There is no such thing as a yellow, what we have now is a small group of thugs that are paid for their services "by the" now insignificant criminal on the run and then we have the rest of the Thai population who have become well aware of the situation after the antics of the last government - they have had enough

the thaksin fan club constantly spaming TVF need to smell the cheese - it's over, red terrorism will never raise its head again in Thailand

[Winniedapu]

There is no such thing as a yellow, what we have now is a small group of thugs that are paid for their services "by the" now insignificant criminal on the run and then we have the rest of the Thai population who have become well aware of the situation after the antics of the last government - they have had enough

the thaksin fan club constantly spaming TVF need to smell the cheese - it's over, red terrorism will never raise its head again in Thailand

Well, I guess we'll see in due course. It ain't over 'til it's over and the fat lady sings.

Winnie

[baboon]

There is no such thing as a yellow, what we have now is a small group of thugs that are paid for their services "by the" now insignificant criminal on the run and then we have the rest of the Thai population who have become well aware of the situation after the antics of the last government - they have had enough

the thaksin fan club constantly spaming TVF need to smell the cheese - it's over, red terrorism will never raise its head again in Thailand

So the yellows which don't exist are a small group of thugs that are paid for their services "by the" now insignificant criminal on the run? What? Are you enjoying an early afternoon aperitif, perchance?

[GeorgesAbitbol]

UUD will have no access to monitor anything so this is complete nonsense

What they might be able to do is intimidate people into voting a certain way

At the end of the day they have no right mandate or authority to do anything except spew out garbage under the payroll and direction of their convicted criminal master

someone should shut them up once and for all, they are an unelected unwanted or needed disruptive divisive element in Thai society

You re so funny Smeldly, does the UDD has no right because they wanted to have an amnesty for the big bad wolf? then what do you think of the amnesty the JUnta gave to themselves to avoid High Trahison ?

Junta is unelected, unwanted and a disruptive and divisive element in Thai society...but I guess we know your colors and probably prefer the tactics of dict unelected, all powerfull Junta, right?

[GeorgesAbitbol]

There is no such thing as a yellow, what we have now is a small group of thugs that are paid for their services "by the" now insignificant criminal on the run and then we have the rest of the Thai population who have become well aware of the situation after the antics of the last government - they have had enough

the thaksin fan club constantly spaming TVF need to smell the cheese - it's over, red terrorism will never raise its head again in Thailand

The thai society, as well as the world (except you and few others here) are also well aware the Junta works for the establishment,(yellow shirts, yep) and they have enough of them, Yellow terrorism was quite present during the Suthep circus (where is all the money he grabbed?).

The Junta is so scared of the event looming that they want to prevent in any way the possible rising of the low and middle class...if you don t see this you re too blind and live under a rock.

Thaksin was even praised by the guy at the top.

Now having curious deaths in the cells (blood infection, suicides) threats to the families of Students who are fed up with the suppression of civil rights and freedom of speech, extra judicial killings, extra judicial "adjustments"...they even want to creat "readjustment camps..."

You re really a lost soul mate and should probably open a bit your eyes or listen to the thais...they are fed up and only the specific "event" will prevent an uprising in the next few months...mark my words

[Winniedapu]

during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power

Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections

there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin

Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol

Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions, usually it is the Thai people but since they were generally ignored when millions took to the streets in peaceful protests and were slaughtered by government sponsored terrorists while the police were told to do nothing, I see this as a reasonable compromise and a necessary one.

"during the last attempt at a new charter all the red fan boys on here made claims that the government didn't want the charter approved because they wanted to stay in power"

Yes, and that was clearly correct.

"Now that this charter is aprroved and we are heading for a referendum and ultimately and election you are all now wanting the referendum to be rejected and no elections"

Charter approved? Approved by who?? We are heading for an election - really? When will that be? Wanting the charter to be rejected - yes. Elections - yes.

"there no pleasing you is there, the only thing that is going to work is to hand control of the country over to the nonelected UUD lol and control given back to the convicted criminal Thaksin"

The UDD is not contesting in an election so why should it be elected?? Who here on TVF wants the unelected junta ti hand over power to the unelected UDD?? What I'm saying is "hold elections and whoever wins forms the government".

"Oh and who was the idiot farang (in the photo) I noticed on the red stage last week when they made this announcement, well it looked like a farang lol"

And?

"Oh and before you claim election or not the army will still be in power - that is your interpretation, I quite like the idea that a future elected Thai government actually has to answer to someone for their actions,"

So elected representatives have to answer to unelected persons. Tell me; who/what ensures that the unelected persons are any better that the elected ones???

In fact, let me pose the question yet again;

After a bunch of coups that didn't change a thing what is it about the present junta that makes you believe anything will be different?

PS. I'm disappointed that you did not mention the YL government's failed amnesty bid. Has it fina;lly dawned on you that bleeting on about this is hypocritical?

people who are tasked with upholding the law are in most countries (if not all) not elected by the people, they are in place for law enforcement and to operate the justice system, unfortunately as we have all seen in Thailand those tasked with upholding the law are controlled by the sitting government so that system currently doesn't work here, what I see is a collective group from from various parts of Thai society that will be in place to make sure that the sitting elected government works within the law and in the interests of the country and its people and not themselves as we have seen in the past, unfortunate but I honestly cannot see any other way forward

The only other option imho is to knock it down and start again, from the bottom up and the top down.

In my view it is irretrievable and one should not excuse inaction for the reason that one ;'can't see any other way forward. There is always another way forward.

You can't build a first-class nation from a third-class education, third-class law-enforcement and 3rd-class defence forces, and those are ranked in order of importance, or so it appears to me.

You can't knit a first-class anything from third-class wool, but I'm sure you're free to keep knitting in desperation and see what you get.

W

Edited June 14, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Eric Loh]

There is no such thing as a yellow, what we have now is a small group of thugs that are paid for their services "by the" now insignificant criminal on the run and then we have the rest of the Thai population who have become well aware of the situation after the antics of the last government - they have had enough

the thaksin fan club constantly spaming TVF need to smell the cheese - it's over, red terrorism will never raise its head again in Thailand

Wake up and smell reality Smedly. The yellow group is fast shrinking disgust by the junta idioscrantic performance and the bad economic hurting their pockets. Many yellow academics and activists have been very outspoken critizing the junta. The Dems have also been harsh and brought out many corruption cases and the main perpetrator of the coup, the PDRC is forming a parallel reform committee. The yellow is in disarray and disunited.

Meanwhile, thanks to the highly skewed draft charter, the UDD is stronger than ever and Yingluck popularity has not dropped and seen by more neutrals as a victim of this elaborate plan to rid her since the day she was elected. The junta is increasingly concern by the sustainability of the PT popularity in spite of all the barriers that they throw at them. The UDD is taking the mickey out of the junta and have them guessing what they will do next. It's not over by a long shot and the junta knows it but not you as you are a steadfast junta fanboy.

[Winniedapu]

UUD will have no access to monitor anything so this is complete nonsense

What they might be able to do is intimidate people into voting a certain way

At the end of the day they have no right mandate or authority to do anything except spew out garbage under the payroll and direction of their convicted criminal master

someone should shut them up once and for all, they are an unelected unwanted or needed disruptive divisive element in Thai society

If that is indeed the opinion of Thai society, why any need for panic if nobody is interested in them? Why should they forcibly be silenced? Why not just let them piss in the wind and then fade away, unnoticed and uncared about?

Surely that would be a feather in the cap of the current democracy enablers, to shrug and simply let them get on with it as they are a busted flush anyway?

they have guns bombs and grenades and have used them on a regular basis, democracy UUD style

"they have guns bombs and grenades and used them on a regular basis, democracy UDD style".

Now if you replaced the UDD and inserted Junta and yellow shirts then your comment would be just as accurate, but you choose to only accuse (the reds/UDD) of this when there is plenty of video evidence out there that the military and yellow supporter's are quite ready and do in fact use guns bombs and grenades on people.

But oddly, never seem to attract the condemnation of the juntaphiles.

W

[Dumbastheycome]

The refusal to allow International observers is a very debatable issue. But underwhat guise does the UDD think it can realistically claim to be operating "anti cheating" groups. It certainly would not be permitted any active role in the process. So the suspicion that it wants a presence to apply overt or other influence on voting must be considered as real. Let them be satisfied with whatever number of aligned people they have managed to infiltrate the approved officials with.

[jesimps]

"General Prawit said that there is no need for the UDD or any political groups to set up centres to monitor the referendum in order to prevent possible cheating because there are two already two agencies responsible for monitoring the referendum namely the Election Commission and the government sectors Anti-Corruption Commission."

Both of which are lapdogs of a government widely believed to be illegal.

"He also dismissed any suggestion of bringing in foreign observers to observe the referendum, saying that referendum is an internal affairs of Thailand."

We can understand how strongly the dumpy general feels about referenda being internal matters for countries, by the fact that this government was happy to send a team of observers and hangers-on on a junket and shopping trip observation mission to Edinburgh in September 2014. Not so squeamish then I notice - he must have had a change of heart recently.

Winnie

Nonsense. Who believes this government to be illegal? Apart from the usual little band of Shin fans who post such drivel on TVF.

Everyone in Thailand who enjoys the freedom to vote and for the party they elected to be allowed to serve their full term of office I would have thought.

[smedly]

there is no such thing as a yellow shirt which certain people keep mentioning on this thread, that would imply that there were rival factions which is all very well and gives thaksin and his funded terrorist reds a purpose but they are gone, there is no longer such a movement, you have the vast majority of Thai people and a funded terror group called redshirt or UDD

"""""""There is no longer such an organisation called yellow shirt in thailand"""""""""" Thaksin and his followers would like to think there is such a thing because you cannot have a conflict unless there are identifiable sides, this is the closest Thailand will get towards so called reconcilliation, no more yellows and red side that cannot justify their existance or purpose

The yellows are gone, all that is left are the ordinary Thai people niether red or yellow just people and a small group of funded thugs that are trying to justify their existance

The reason I have mentioned this several times on this thread are two fold

1. stupididty keeps talking about yellow shirt - they don't exist anymore

2. the UDD seem to think they have a mandate to control something or interfere in a process or act in some sort of official capacity - well they don't, why should they

[Khun Han]

Whenever there's a Thaksinista government in power, the Bangkok mafia start up a street protest. Whether they're called Yelloshirts, PDRC, or whatever is irrelevant. It's always the same families and cronies who are tasked by the mafia with organising and leading the protests. And, should another Thaksin-inspired/led government somehow get into power in the future, it will be the same response., It's like the classic confidence trickster play: Change the name, the game's the same.