How is Paypal allowed to do this

[Suradit69]

What does this have to do with Thailand?

Some of us who live in Thailand have had varied experiences dealing with PayPal. At times, being in Thailand can make issues more difficult to deal with.

[HappyDazed]

Paypal decided the claim in my favor and told me to return the goods in order to receive a full refund.

It's your responsibility to make sure the parcel arrives at it's destination.

If the parcel goes missing then you have to take it up with the courier that you employed.

Nothing to do with Paypal...

[Berty100]

Thai Post could be very slow hence the delay, you should have sent it via EMS. Detailed Thai Post tracking don't show up on Auspost tracking system only packages sent via EMS will show up. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

EMS should have cost at least 1000 Baht extra, and since I have to pay the return out of my own pocket, I of course look for the cheapest way that has a tracking number.

Thailand post told me about 1 week to 10 days to deliver. Just yesterday they told me again , not over 2 weeks, but we're nearing that and I just hope it gets delivered.

I even got the flight numbers on which the package was sent, and been told it left Thailand on June 9th.

[sultan2011]

My experiences with Paypal it's been far better actually calling them rather than messaging or emailing & to be fair they have always been very nice and helpful when i have called.

[lucifer666]

Paypal has a Facebook page. The last time i had a problem, I posted the information there. I received a response within the hour and my problem was resolved within a few days. They respond a little more diligently when the problem is viewable by the public methinks.

Edited June 18, 2016 by lucifer666

[KittenKong]

I find it is best to avoid PayPal whenever possible. They have no respect for those who use them.

[Berty100]

Claim closed again.

So lets see. They close the claim because they can't track the shipment, however everyone else in this world can.

I send them an email explaining that, and they reopen the claim.

I call the support desk, and they tell me that they had a wrong tracking number, but now have the correct number and are able to see the tracking info.

But last night I receive an email that says " Unfortunately, we can't grant your claim appeal because we were unable to track your shipment."

So is Paypal run by idiots, big idiots or the biggest idiots I've ever encountered.? Make your choice

[mike324]

Thai Post could be very slow hence the delay, you should have sent it via EMS. Detailed Thai Post tracking don't show up on Auspost tracking system only packages sent via EMS will show up. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

EMS should have cost at least 1000 Baht extra, and since I have to pay the return out of my own pocket, I of course look for the cheapest way that has a tracking number.

Thailand post told me about 1 week to 10 days to deliver. Just yesterday they told me again , not over 2 weeks, but we're nearing that and I just hope it gets delivered.

I even got the flight numbers on which the package was sent, and been told it left Thailand on June 9th.

I know EMS would have cost more. Its just tough luck. Thailand Post via air normally will take 2-3 weeks to arrive. EMS is very reliable when they say 1 week, it usually is around within that time frame. But Thailand Post can drag up to a month or more, I think the delays are usually within the Thai side.

Perhaps you can call up paypal and tell them to keep the case open as its still in transit and transit takes time. Thats your only best option, and also communicate with the seller. A honest seller may just refund you directly even though the case is close.

[Berty100]

Paypal has a Facebook page. The last time i had a problem, I posted the information there. I received a response within the hour and my problem was resolved within a few days. They respond a little more diligently when the problem is viewable by the public methinks.

I found 2 FB pages, an official and an unofficial one, but on neither of both pages there is an option to make a post.

Maybe you can advise me how to post?

[Berty100]

This morning I replied to Paypal with a link to the tracking page that clearly showed that the package is still in transit, and i will post it here for everyone to verify.

https://track.aftership.com/thailand-post/RR198607118TH

I also copy and pasted the message that is shown on Australia post webpage, and which clearly says that they don't show tracking all the way but will update when the package is signed for acceptance.

https://auspost.com.au/help/#/help_and_support/search_for#pageURL=invalid-product-not-trackable

The tracking status 'product not trackable' – or the message, ‘sorry, this item can’t be tracked’ – might be shown for items sent using one of our international services that doesn’t come with tracking as a standard feature.

These include:

• Registered Post International
• International Economy (Air and Sea)

No track events will be shown for these items. However, if the item was sent using Registered Post International, a signature will be obtained when the item is delivered.

Please visit our tracking service for more information about which domestic and international services are trackable.

Though this evening I received the following message from Paypal.

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

If a Significantly Not as Described claim is decided in the buyer's favor, we may ask the buyer to send the item back to the seller at the buyer's expense.

Online trackable Proof of Delivery is required. Once we have confirmed that the item has returned to the seller, we will process a refund.

We regret any inconvenience this may have caused you and encourage you to work directly with your seller for further resolution.

Is PP trying to scam me or what is going on here?

Edited June 18, 2016 by Berty100

[HappyDazed]

Is PP trying to scam me or what is going on here?

I've already answered your thread question, it might not be what you want to hear but it is the facts of the situation.

You might be able to wangle an exception to PP policy but its unlikely...

[Berty100]

Is PP trying to scam me or what is going on here?

I've already answered your thread question, it might not be what you want to hear but it is the facts of the situation.

You might be able to wangle an exception to PP policy but its unlikely...

Which part of the Paypal policy didn't I comply with?

I made a return shipping which is trackable, and it isn't missing, it is in transit.

What reason does PP have to close the claim?

[KittenKong]

Which part of the Paypal policy didn't I comply with?

I made a return shipping which is trackable, and it isn't missing, it is in transit.

What reason does PP have to close the claim?

You are missing the point.

PayPal do precisely what they want for no reason other than they want it. They dont follow any rules and they have no proper procedures in place to handle problems. Also they are impossible to contact.

There are quite literally hundreds of thousands of complaints about PayPal's high-handed and unilateral actions on the internet.

For these reasons I find it best to avoid them. For those who need another reason: they charge too much also. By the time PayPal have added all their fees to a transaction it costs more than using a credit card.

[Berty100]

Which part of the Paypal policy didn't I comply with?

I made a return shipping which is trackable, and it isn't missing, it is in transit.

What reason does PP have to close the claim?

You are missing the point.

PayPal do precisely what they want for no reason other than they want it. They dont follow any rules and they have no proper procedures in place to handle problems. Also they are impossible to contact.

There are quite literally hundreds of thousands of complaints about PayPal's high-handed and unilateral actions on the internet.

For these reasons I find it best to avoid them. For those who need another reason: they charge too much also. By the time PayPal have added all their fees to a transaction it costs more than using a credit card.

Paypal doesn't charge me any fees of any kind.

I pay in AU$ and my credit card get charged in AU$.

[HappyDazed]

Which part of the Paypal policy didn't I comply with?

It's in their reply to you...

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

If a Significantly Not as Described claim is decided in the buyer's favor, we may ask the buyer to send the item back to the seller at the buyer's expense.

Online trackable Proof of Delivery is required. Once we have confirmed that the item has returned to the seller, we will process a refund.

We regret any inconvenience this may have caused you and encourage you to work directly with your seller for further resolution.

Like I said earlier...

Paypal decided the claim in my favor and told me to return the goods in order to receive a full refund.

It's your responsibility to make sure the parcel arrives at it's destination.

If the parcel goes missing then you have to take it up with the courier that you employed.

Nothing to do with Paypal...

Don't get me wrong Berty. I'm not trying to troll your thread but there is a lot of bad advice being given, including the last guy who claims PP dont follow any rules and they have no proper procedures in place to handle problems. Also they are impossible to contact.

As for all the people on the internet whinging about their PP experience ..99% of those will not have bothered to read the T&C's/policy.

----------

Let me put this another way, how do you think the owner of the item will feel if you have lost(via Thai post) their property?

Does it seem reasonable they should be out of pocket because of something you did?

What PP are looking for is a tracking scan showing the owner reunited with their property.

Your claim doesn't have any basis...as technically you still have the item, the fact it's 'in transit' is irrelevant.

Edited June 19, 2016 by HappyDazed

[Berty100]

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

If a Significantly Not as Described claim is decided in the buyer's favor, we may ask the buyer to send the item back to the seller at the buyer's expense.

Online trackable Proof of Delivery is required. Once we have confirmed that the item has returned to the seller, we will process a refund.

We regret any inconvenience this may have caused you and encourage you to work directly with your seller for further resolution.

Like I said earlier...

Paypal decided the claim in my favor and told me to return the goods in order to receive a full refund.

It's your responsibility to make sure the parcel arrives at it's destination.

If the parcel goes missing then you have to take it up with the courier that you employed.

Nothing to do with Paypal...

Don't get me wrong Berty. I'm not trying to troll your thread but there is a lot of bad advice being given, including the last guy who claims PP dont follow any rules and they have no proper procedures in place to handle problems. Also they are impossible to contact.

As for all the people on the internet whinging about their PP experience ..99% of those will not have bothered to read the T&C's/policy.

----------

Let me put this another way, how do you think the owner of the item will feel if you have lost(via Thai post) their property?

Does it seem reasonable they should be out of pocket because of something you did?

What PP are looking for is a tracking scan showing the owner reunited with their property.

Your claim doesn't have any basis...as technically you still have the item, the fact it's 'in transit' is irrelevant.

You are the only one who has repeatedly claimed that the package is lost. Nothing is lost.

PP can track the package and it is on it's way to the recipient. is the below a tracking or not?

This shows clearly that the package is in the postal system, so definitely not lost, and for sure also not in my possession anymore also.

They have never asked me for a copy from the postal receipt or a picture from the package itself, which I have suggested to them, as it is more proof that the tracking number belongs to the package in question.

So PP has no reason at all to close a claim while the return is in progress.

tran·sit

ˈtranzət/

noun

noun: transit

1.

the carrying of people, goods, or materials from one place to another.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Berty100

[HappyDazed]

You are the only one who has repeatedly claimed that the package is lost.

I have claimed no such thing...quote me or it didn't happen!

Or maybe you don't understand what "If.." means?

[Berty100]

You are the only one who has repeatedly claimed that the package is lost.

I have claimed no such thing...quote me or it didn't happen!

Or maybe you don't understand what "If.." means?

In 2 previous post you told me that I have to take it up with the courier if the package got missing.

In your last post you wrote "Let me put this another way, how do you think the owner of the item will feel if you have lost(via Thai post) their property?"

Well the package is NOT lost nor missing, so stop getting OFF TOPIC.

Please tell which valid reason can PP have to close a claim while the return shipping is in progress, and it is clear that the package is NOT missing or lost?

A claim is decided in my favor and is supposed to be closed ONLY after the package has been delivered or there are indications that the return will not happen at all.

None of these has factors applies in this case, since the package was shipped on 7 June with a tracking number, and it is normal that this takes 2 - 3 weeks to delivery which hasn't passed yet.

Australia post also clearly states on their website that it is normal practice that International registered mail is not trackable all the way, but will be updated when delivered.

[4evermaat]

Paypal has reopened the claim. Their excuse was that a wrong tracking number was added at first, and they reacted to that. After I sent them a message last night they were able to see the correct number, and reopened the case sometime this afternoon.

I have only sent them 1 tracking number on June 7th, which they confirmed by a message in the message center wherein they repeated the number, so they must have f****d up somewhere and now come up with a lame excuse.

By the way, Australia post advised me that Thailand post could request for a return of the shipment before it is delivered to the addressee, so this morning called Thailand post call center, and they told me " Canot".

I then went to the post office and spoke with the postmaster, and again got the " canot". So after a while I got a bit upset Berty style, and things started to get a bit loud.

Guess what, out of nowhere came a pre- printed form in English and Thai, that had the purpose to request the return of a shipment from the recipient post office.

CANOT

Can you please post an image of this form here? Blur out any sensitive info, or if you have a blank form, that would be better.

[HappyDazed]

In 2 previous post you told me that I have to take it up with the courier if the package got missing.

Correct! ...which is completely different from repeatedly claiming the parcel is lost.

Your claim against the seller has no basis, you should not have submitted a claim in the first place.

All you have to do is ensure the owner is reunited with their property then you will be refunded....not exactly rocket science!

This is my last post...because if you don't understand by now you never will!

[Berty100]

In 2 previous post you told me that I have to take it up with the courier if the package got missing.

Correct! ...which is completely different from repeatedly claiming the parcel is lost.

Your claim against the seller has no basis, you should not have submitted a claim in the first place.

All you have to do is ensure the owner is reunited with their property then you will be refunded....not exactly rocket science!

This is my last post...because if you don't understand by now you never will!

Now you are trolling.

You have not the slightest idea about the item, so how can you know if my claim had any base or not.

I received an item that was NASD, inferior in quality and clearly used, while I ordered a new item.

The fact that PP decided the claim in my favor should be enough evidence that I indeed had a base for my claim.

After reviewing your case, we've determined that you are eligible for a refund of $461,31 AUD. Before we can issue you this refund, we need you to return the merchandise to your seller and provide us with online shipment tracking information before 10 June 2016.

Is this clear enough for you.

So after I sent back the item, WITH tracking number that can be clearly tracked by everyone and his dog, PP decided to close the claim because they say they can't track the item. Which is a lie.

[Berty100]

I have initiated a charge back to my credit card, for goods I returned and didn't receive the promised refund, will see how they respond.

You will later find that you did this in vain. PayPal vigorously contests such chargebacks. Nevertheless you might have a slim chance to recover your money based on what they say on their T&Cs:

7.7 Relationship between PayPal's protection programs and Chargebacks. Credit card Chargeback rights, if they apply, may be broader than PayPal’s protection programs. Chargebacks may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as SNAD. You may pursue a Dispute/Claim with PayPal, or you may contact your credit card company and pursue your Chargeback rights. You may not pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you have an open Dispute or Claim with PayPal, and also file a Chargeback with your credit card company, PayPal will close your Dispute or Claim, and you will have to rely solely on your Chargeback rights.

Before contacting your card issuer or filing a Dispute with PayPal, you should contact the Seller to resolve your issue in accordance with the Seller’s return policy as stated on their auction or website.

That is just my point, I didn't initiate a charge back for SNAD, but because I returned the goods and didn't receive the refund.

Paypal decided the claim in my favor and told me to return the goods in order to receive a full refund.

While the goods are in the postal process they close the claim, so there is no double claim.

First of all because the case is closed by Paypal and secondly because the reason for charge back is for different reasons.

Ever thought about the seller, he delivered the goods, gets no goods back and you want to take his money?

You should learn to read, and so should those who like your silly post, because the subject of this thread is not me claiming money from the seller without returning the item.

I had a claim decided in my favor by PP, but when I sent the item back with tracking number as they require, they close the claim on the base that I provide an invalid tracking number.

" The tracking information you provided was invalid and we were unable to

confirm delivery of the item associated with this claim. As a result, the

case is now considered closed and we are unable to process a refund"

Of course the delivery can not be confirmed at this point, because it is still ON THE WAY and it is normal that it takes this long to get delivered, but it can definitely be tracked and I have provided PP that info.

But a claim usually only get closed when the item is delivered or it is clear that it will not be delivered.

So PP decided that the item will not get delivered even before it HAD A CHANCE to be delivered under normal circumstances.

On a day in the coming week the item will arrive at the seller's destination, and I have no way to recover my money at that point, since the claim is closed already.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Berty100

[stevenl]

I would presume the claim will be reopened as soon as you can proof the item is with the seller again.

DELETED

Edited June 19, 2016 by seedy
flaming

[Berty100]

I would presume the claim will be reopened as soon as you can proof the item is with the seller again.

I can only hope for that, but I have my doubts, because they closed the claim on 16 June.

At that point I sent an email and called them, after which they reopened the claim for review, with the excuse that they previously had a wrong tracking number.

Yesterday I received a new email where they rejected my appeal to reopen the case.

"Unfortunately, we can't grant your claim appeal because we were unable to track your shipment.

If you have valid tracking information, or have any further questions, reply to this email or send a message to [email protected].

Thank you for your cooperation.

Sincerely, Protection Services "

I sent them a link to the Thailand post tracking page, and the info I had received from Australia post, wherein they state that it's normal practice that international registered mail doesn't track all the way down, but will be updated on delivery.

Then last night the posted a message in the message center where they state that their review shows that the item can not be tracked, and they closed the case again.

They didn't say anything about reopening on a later occasion.

[Berty100]

DELETED

They don't have to like me, they should just adhere to their own rules.

If they didn't want to refund me they shouldn't have asked me to return the item. I have complied and returned the item, and provided them with the tracking info, which they say they can't verify.

Edited June 19, 2016 by seedy
Quote hidden post

[HappyDazed]

So fine Mr Troll, please explain to everyone here what item is the subject of this thread and which were my reasons and arguments to open a PP dispute

No need to explain to everyone, ...you are only person who seems confused.

Anyone with a basic grasp of English can read the thread for the details of the item and your interaction with PP.

[seedy]

Flaming post Removed

[KittenKong]

For these reasons I find it best to avoid them. For those who need another reason: they charge too much also. By the time PayPal have added all their fees to a transaction it costs more than using a credit card.

Paypal doesn't charge me any fees of any kind.

I pay in AU$ and my credit card get charged in AU$.

Try receiving money via PayPal, or using it across borders (even in the same currency). Remember: a transaction has two sides.

Using my credit card costs less in total than using PayPal, and I get a significant measure of protection from the card that PayPal simply dont offer.

But hey, if you like them so much why not carry on using them? Oh sorry, I forgot, your whole thread was about the way they mistreated you. Well there you go.

[Berty100]

For these reasons I find it best to avoid them. For those who need another reason: they charge too much also. By the time PayPal have added all their fees to a transaction it costs more than using a credit card.

Paypal doesn't charge me any fees of any kind.

I pay in AU$ and my credit card get charged in AU$.

Try receiving money via PayPal, or using it across borders (even in the same currency). Remember: a transaction has two sides.

Using my credit card costs less in total than using PayPal, and I get a significant measure of protection from the card that PayPal simply dont offer.

But hey, if you like them so much why not carry on using them? Oh sorry, I forgot, your whole thread was about the way they mistreated you. Well there you go.

I have no idea what you're on to.

I only use Paypal to check out on e-commerce websites that accept PP, I don't sell anything, nor use I PP to transfer money.

Since the amount at the check out is credited to my CC in the currency I made the purchase, there is no conversion hence also no exchange fees.

So in I'm protected twice, since in case Paypal doesn't cover me in this claim, I still can fall back on the protection my CC offers.

By the way, while I'm writing this post I received an email from Australia post that the package has arrived in the system.

[mike324]

Why don't you talk to the seller directly? Explain that its in transit and show him the receipt for postal office. I'm sure if its like a store not an individual seller, they would be understanding about the whole situation.

PP don't accept an "in transit" as solid proof as too many scammers use the exact same trick to get refunds. I do think they should allow at least 30 days before they close the case against you, especially when it involves international transactions.

No luck trying to get a hold of someone on the line on paypals side? They have more power and patient to open up the case then those just replying to emails.