Berty100 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 And what can I do against. In another thread of mine you will read that I returned goods to Australia for a refund, and that it still shows as in transit. I have Paypal informed the tracking number. I have also contacted Australian post and they informed that I should start an investigation with Thai Post since the item didn't arrive in Australia and still shows as in transit Right now I receive the following email from Paypal The tracking information you provided was invalid and we were unable toconfirm delivery of the item associated with this claim. As a result, thecase is now considered closed and we are unable to process a refund.We encourage you to work directly with the seller to find a resolution.Thank you for your cooperation.Sincerely,Protection Services Department At the same time they have blocked access to my Paypal account, so I can't even email the bastards. Lucky there is no money inside, but I have a 486 AU$ item that was sent back and for which I paid. Your advice is welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satcommlee Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Do you make many refund claims? or was this the first one? I cant see why they'd block your access unless they think you are abusing the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berty100 Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 Do you make many refund claims? or was this the first one? I cant see why they'd block your access unless they think you are abusing the system. I had 1 claim in the past 180 days. Access to my account is restored now, but how dare they to say that tracking info is invalid and deny me a refund for a return I made on their advice, if they can simply check it online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Presumably you have "proof of posting" as in the receipt issued by the Post Office with the parcel number on ? then use that number in the THAI postal service. It was explained to you previously it would not show on the Auspost system. That would provide evidence it was sent and is "in the system" ? Why not give them a ring and discuss it ? is this Paypal account done through Singapore ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Call them and explain your issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berty100 Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 No my Paypal account is in Europe. I have informed them on the 7th about the tracking info and they confirmed that they received it. I have also messaged them 2 days ago that I was concerned that the item still hadn't arrived on Australian soil, something that was confirmed to me in 2 emails from Australian post, and asked them if I am responsible in case the shipment goes missing. On the tracking page it shows as " in transit" and that is also what Aussie post tells me, but they add that this is unusual and advice me to start an investigation with Thai post. Paypal themselves can enter the info in the tracking site and verify the validity of the tracking number. NOT? What gives them the right to simply close the case, without asking me for additional info or proof, and tell me that I have to find a solution with the seller myself after they told me to ship it back? Does anyone think that a seller who sent me an item that even closely looked as described, will refund me after he receives it back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berty100 Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 I have initiated a charge back to my credit card, for goods I returned and didn't receive the promised refund, will see how they respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvdf Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I have initiated a charge back to my credit card, for goods I returned and didn't receive the promised refund, will see how they respond. You will later find that you did this in vain. PayPal vigorously contests such chargebacks. Nevertheless you might have a slim chance to recover your money based on what they say on their T&Cs: 7.7 Relationship between PayPal's protection programs and Chargebacks. Credit card Chargeback rights, if they apply, may be broader than PayPal’s protection programs. Chargebacks may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as SNAD. You may pursue a Dispute/Claim with PayPal, or you may contact your credit card company and pursue your Chargeback rights. You may not pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you have an open Dispute or Claim with PayPal, and also file a Chargeback with your credit card company, PayPal will close your Dispute or Claim, and you will have to rely solely on your Chargeback rights. Before contacting your card issuer or filing a Dispute with PayPal, you should contact the Seller to resolve your issue in accordance with the Seller’s return policy as stated on their auction or website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berty100 Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) I have initiated a charge back to my credit card, for goods I returned and didn't receive the promised refund, will see how they respond. You will later find that you did this in vain. PayPal vigorously contests such chargebacks. Nevertheless you might have a slim chance to recover your money based on what they say on their T&Cs: 7.7 Relationship between PayPal's protection programs and Chargebacks. Credit card Chargeback rights, if they apply, may be broader than PayPal’s protection programs. Chargebacks may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as SNAD. You may pursue a Dispute/Claim with PayPal, or you may contact your credit card company and pursue your Chargeback rights. You may not pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you have an open Dispute or Claim with PayPal, and also file a Chargeback with your credit card company, PayPal will close your Dispute or Claim, and you will have to rely solely on your Chargeback rights. Before contacting your card issuer or filing a Dispute with PayPal, you should contact the Seller to resolve your issue in accordance with the Seller’s return policy as stated on their auction or website. That is just my point, I didn't initiate a charge back for SNAD, but because I returned the goods and didn't receive the refund. Paypal decided the claim in my favor and told me to return the goods in order to receive a full refund. While the goods are in the postal process they close the claim, so there is no double claim. First of all because the case is closed by Paypal and secondly because the reason for charge back is for different reasons. Edited June 16, 2016 by Berty100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 No my Paypal account is in Europe. I have informed them on the 7th about the tracking info and they confirmed that they received it. I have also messaged them 2 days ago that I was concerned that the item still hadn't arrived on Australian soil, something that was confirmed to me in 2 emails from Australian post, and asked them if I am responsible in case the shipment goes missing. On the tracking page it shows as " in transit" and that is also what Aussie post tells me, but they add that this is unusual and advice me to start an investigation with Thai post. Paypal themselves can enter the info in the tracking site and verify the validity of the tracking number. NOT? What gives them the right to simply close the case, without asking me for additional info or proof, and tell me that I have to find a solution with the seller myself after they told me to ship it back? Does anyone think that a seller who sent me an item that even closely looked as described, will refund me after he receives it back? So contact Thai post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I have initiated a charge back to my credit card, for goods I returned and didn't receive the promised refund, will see how they respond. You will later find that you did this in vain. PayPal vigorously contests such chargebacks. Nevertheless you might have a slim chance to recover your money based on what they say on their T&Cs: 7.7 Relationship between PayPal's protection programs and Chargebacks. Credit card Chargeback rights, if they apply, may be broader than PayPal’s protection programs. Chargebacks may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as SNAD. You may pursue a Dispute/Claim with PayPal, or you may contact your credit card company and pursue your Chargeback rights. You may not pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you have an open Dispute or Claim with PayPal, and also file a Chargeback with your credit card company, PayPal will close your Dispute or Claim, and you will have to rely solely on your Chargeback rights. Before contacting your card issuer or filing a Dispute with PayPal, you should contact the Seller to resolve your issue in accordance with the Seller’s return policy as stated on their auction or website. That is just my point, I didn't initiate a charge back for SNAD, but because I returned the goods and didn't receive the refund. Paypal decided the claim in my favor and told me to return the goods in order to receive a full refund. While the goods are in the postal process they close the claim, so there is no double claim. First of all because the case is closed by Paypal and secondly because the reason for charge back is for different reasons. Ever thought about the seller, he delivered the goods, gets no goods back and you want to take his money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berty100 Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) I have initiated a charge back to my credit card, for goods I returned and didn't receive the promised refund, will see how they respond. You will later find that you did this in vain. PayPal vigorously contests such chargebacks. Nevertheless you might have a slim chance to recover your money based on what they say on their T&Cs: 7.7 Relationship between PayPal's protection programs and Chargebacks. Credit card Chargeback rights, if they apply, may be broader than PayPal’s protection programs. Chargebacks may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as SNAD. You may pursue a Dispute/Claim with PayPal, or you may contact your credit card company and pursue your Chargeback rights. You may not pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you have an open Dispute or Claim with PayPal, and also file a Chargeback with your credit card company, PayPal will close your Dispute or Claim, and you will have to rely solely on your Chargeback rights. Before contacting your card issuer or filing a Dispute with PayPal, you should contact the Seller to resolve your issue in accordance with the Seller’s return policy as stated on their auction or website. That is just my point, I didn't initiate a charge back for SNAD, but because I returned the goods and didn't receive the refund. Paypal decided the claim in my favor and told me to return the goods in order to receive a full refund. While the goods are in the postal process they close the claim, so there is no double claim. First of all because the case is closed by Paypal and secondly because the reason for charge back is for different reasons. Ever thought about the seller, he delivered the goods, gets no goods back and you want to take his money? Ever thought about taking reading classes, because from both of your posts it's obvious that you were too eager to share your knowledge with the forum, but couldn't be bothered to read the OP and previous posts first. The seller sent me a 460 AU$ item that was inferior to say it gentle, and I was forced to pay the return shipping, so to hell with the seller. Edited June 16, 2016 by Berty100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berty100 Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) Paypal has reopened the claim. Their excuse was that a wrong tracking number was added at first, and they reacted to that. After I sent them a message last night they were able to see the correct number, and reopened the case sometime this afternoon. I have only sent them 1 tracking number on June 7th, which they confirmed by a message in the message center wherein they repeated the number, so they must have f****d up somewhere and now come up with a lame excuse. By the way, Australia post advised me that Thailand post could request for a return of the shipment before it is delivered to the addressee, so this morning called Thailand post call center, and they told me " Canot". I then went to the post office and spoke with the postmaster, and again got the " canot". So after a while I got a bit upset Berty style, and things started to get a bit loud. Guess what, out of nowhere came a pre- printed form in English and Thai, that had the purpose to request the return of a shipment from the recipient post office. CANOT Edited June 16, 2016 by Berty100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wump Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I suggest to the op that he does a bit of a Google search about PayPal (especially about the company randomly closing accounts) and then decide if he really wants to work with them and their "business model". I think you would be best off claiming your money back via your credit card company and forgetting about PayPal forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgeorgeallen Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 sorry i dont have any advice on this matter other than i tried paypal once and is was an disaster. i dont tend to get upset easily but i was so angry by the end if it i swore i would never use their services again. i really dont understand how they got to be so big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suradit69 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) PayPal employs a lot of minimum wage, otherwise unemployable people who tend to be easily overwhelmed by simple issues. I once had to call one of their reps at their (ironically named) service center in California to sort out something ridiculous because they simply ignored my emails on the subject. The jerk I spoke to knew I was calling from Thailand but put me on hold so often it cost me nearly US$100 just for the phone call. He eventually conceded the error was theirs, but never expressed even the slightest regret for the inconvenience caused. I did find an email address for a rep in Singapore who actually responded to emails regarding two other problems I had with them and who quickly solved those problems and who actually responded politely ... unfortunately I no longer have that email address. I expect they do have to deal with a lot of people who are intentionally trying to game the system for profit and every transaction of this sort does involve both a buyer & seller each of whom may have something to gain or lose when a complaint arises. The three problems I had with them were all connected with eBay, when eBay and PayPal were part of the same company. eBay can at times be a major pain in the rear end too. I've started getting several emails a week from PayPal trying to get me to use them again. They must be getting desperate to generate business. Edited June 17, 2016 by Suradit69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al007 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I use pay pal a lot, generally I find them very helpful and fair, also a great safety insurance against faulty goods etc I know if you do not abide to their strict conditions they will close out a claim, I suggest either through another email address or better by phone try and contact them for help, they will generally listen but of course you need to stay calm Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedsada3 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 What we read in forums and blogs about companies (like Paypal) always comes from unsatisfied user. No one is perfect. i really dont understand how they got to be so big. For every customer who complains, there are many thousands who are satisfied... but they don't tell it on blogs or forums. And that's the reason why such companies are so big: more happy customers than angry ones. By the way I use Paypal already since 2002 and never had unsolved problems. One day I called Paypal Germany from Thailand and when I told them it would cost a lot of phone fee, they asked my number and called me back. Some like it some don't... everyone's choice and feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabula Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I would follow-up with the dispute with PayPal by calling them. Perhaps it's tied up in customs. I've lived in Thailand for 9 years and import frequently. I've had a few items postmarked 3 months prior when I finally received them. Perhaps, it was placed on a ship by mistake! Or lost and it maybe eventually found. Or at the bottom of the ocean with another lost place! Never say never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiWai Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 What does this have to do with Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roiethome Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I have used Paypal dozens of times and never had any disputes with them. As I understand the OP he returned the item by Thai Post and AusPost is saying they never received it to return to the seller and that is why there is no refund. It seems that the onus is on ThaiPost to prove they have 'delivered' it to AusPost. If they cannot then surely the claim is with ThaiPost to be settled under their terms and conditions such as any limit of liabiltiy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster11 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 What does this have to do with Thailand? Thai Post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Another reason not to deal with such ignorant people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 PayPal employs a lot of minimum wage, otherwise unemployable people who tend to be easily overwhelmed by simple issues. I once had to call one of their reps at their (ironically named) service center in California to sort out something ridiculous because they simply ignored my emails on the subject. The jerk I spoke to knew I was calling from Thailand but put me on hold so often it cost me nearly US$100 just for the phone call. He eventually conceded the error was theirs, but never expressed even the slightest regret for the inconvenience caused. I did find an email address for a rep in Singapore who actually responded to emails regarding two other problems I had with them and who quickly solved those problems and who actually responded politely ... unfortunately I no longer have that email address. I expect they do have to deal with a lot of people who are intentionally trying to game the system for profit and every transaction of this sort does involve both a buyer & seller each of whom may have something to gain or lose when a complaint arises. The three problems I had with them were all connected with eBay, when eBay and PayPal were part of the same company. eBay can at times be a major pain in the rear end too. I've started getting several emails a week from PayPal trying to get me to use them again. They must be getting desperate to generate business. Why people deal with such a useless ignorant company is beyond me. Surely there will be other companies people can deal with rather than these retards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike324 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Thai Post could be very slow hence the delay, you should have sent it via EMS. Detailed Thai Post tracking don't show up on Auspost tracking system only packages sent via EMS will show up. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTIRIOS Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 ...I was once sent a measly $100 from Canada....it took 18 days to finally get the funds in my hands....hope things have improved... ...maybe not..... ...one word....'Singapore'...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjdw Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) Use these respectfully. Put all information together and all account information together. Email too the people below, it will be offloaded to a HR office leader and resolved one way or the other within a few days, i will not respond to questions as just came across this in the email but should you have any just fire me a msg here Mr Dan Schulman CEO Ms Louise Phelan Vice President Mr Cameron McLean Managing Director Edited June 17, 2016 by wjdw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh2121 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 If the item has not been delivered to Australia then surely you must claim from Thai Post. Did you use registered mail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtrain5000 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 We ship all the time to Australia via Thai post. Australia assigns a new tracking code and usually you'll have to wait about 3 weeks before a claim is really investigated. If you open an account on AU post and open a claim,they are much more helpful. At first they always say that the tracking shows there is no parcel in their system, but this is because AU post assigns a new tracking code once it's scanned in there. After it's scanned in, they will follow up with another email saying is scheduled for delivery or waiting at the post office to pick up. Almost every claim we opened was found and delivered after about 30 days. You just have to wait patiently and you'll get your refund. PayPal will even reopen a case after they close it many times if they find the item was delivered. This has happened to me several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster11 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Big chance the item could be still in LOS though,especially an item of more than a few hundred $$$ value that is not registered or EMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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