Should Corbyn Quit or Be Pushed, as Leader of the UK Labour Party ?

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Only genuine policies that the two main parties, especially Labour have is filling their own pockets.

I initially 'liked' this post - but its hard to argue that the Conservatives are any less inclined in their own power and wealth base than the Labour party.

[dick dasterdly]

After the referendum, I think its important to get a better idea of the way the voting population is thinking.

 

As far as I can make out, Corby is 'old Labour' - so it would give a better idea if he is the leader of the Labour party at the next election, rather than a 'New Labour' supporter?

[NoshowJones]

48 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I initially 'liked' this post - but its hard to argue that the Conservatives are any less inclined in their own power and wealth base than the Labour party.

I have no time for either of them, but Labour are supposed to be the party of the working class, but not in my lifetime have they ever been.

The Tories  have never said that they are a working mans party, and from a tax point of view, they have not raised or brought out new taxes as much as the "working mans party".

As I have said before, the Tories left the country with a good economy when Blair took over in1997. every Labour government I know has always left the country worse off.

I give you Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown. The party of the working man.

[Ricardo]

Jeremy appears to be openly rowing with his deputy-leader, about whether the party is being infiltrated or influenced by extremists, he's also clearly pissed with the party general-secretary over the legal-action, which prevents some new-entrants (widely thought to support JC) from voting in the leadership-contest.

 

"Mr Corbyn said Tom Watson's suggestion that "Trotsky entryists" are manipulating young party members to boost his support were "nonsense".  But Mr Watson responded saying there was "clear and incontrovertible evidence" to back his claims."

 

and   "In his Observer interview Mr Corbyn also refused to express full confidence in the party's general secretary Ian McNichol who was a key figure in recent legal action which stopped 130,000 of the new members from voting in the leadership contest.  Mr Corbyn said Mr McNichol would face questions over the events of the last few months."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37074553

 

There is clearly strong support for the current leader, from the newly-arrived idealistic grass-roots members, while many other long-standing Labour politicians & MPs & party-leaders feel that they're being sidelined or threatened.

 

Jeremy seems to be in-denial about even the possibility, that there is any such attempt to steer the wave of youthful new enthusiasm,  perhaps because he is benefiting from it ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ricardo]

And the competition continues  ...

 

Jeremy Corbyn promises reform on the trains & buses

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37089246

 

...  while Owen Smith has recently accused the government of secretly planning to privatise the NHS.

[dick dasterdly]

I suspect Labour MPs are New Labour (ala Blair), whilst Corby is old Labour.

 

Personally, I would prefer Corbyn to remain the leader and see how that pans out at the next election.

 

It will become even more interesting if May delays and delays Brexit - and Corbyn admits what he's always believed i.e. Brexit.

Edited August 17, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[Ricardo]

From the hustings-meeting in Birmingham  ...

 

"Jeremy Corbyn has insisted he can reach out beyond his core supporters as his leadership rival said Labour was not on a "trajectory to win power".  At a hustings event, he said his policies would win over "some people that have been tempted to vote Tory".

 

and  ""Challenger Owen Smith said he did not believe Labour would win power under Mr Corbyn's "ineffective" leadership.

At the hustings in Birmingham, Mr Smith said: "I feel right now we are not about to win in Kingswood and Milton Keynes and Cardiff North and all of the 116 seats we have got to win from the Tories."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37125819

[dick dasterdly]

It will be fascinating to see how this plays out.

 

Will New Labour MPs win - or will the Labour members vote for Corbyn?

Edited August 19, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[Ricardo]

And what will the current Labour MPs do, as they're threatened with deselection by the Corbynites in their contituencies , while JC is re-elected (as seems likely) but doesn't appear to be eroding the Tory majority ?

 

This story may not end with the leadership election itself.  Which is one more reason why it matters.

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

And what will the current Labour MPs do, as they're threatened with deselection by the Corbynites in their contituencies , while JC is re-elected (as seems likely) but doesn't appear to be eroding the Tory majority ?

 

This story may not end with the leadership election itself.  Which is one more reason why it matters.

If Corbyn wins, perhaps he will gather supporters to replace the New Labour MPs - that are desperate to get rid of him?

 

If Corbyn is re-elected as the leader, then the Labour MPs will have failed.  They are New Labour, which is why I can't wait to see how the populace votes when there is an election if Corbyn is the Labour leader.

 

Brexit has distorted this - or perhaps made it more obvious as to voters' views?

 

Corbyn may be able to take advantage of this (assuming May doesn't invoke Article 50) - whereas the New Labour MPs 100% in support of the EU stand no chance of doing so.

[emilymat]

I just cannot understand how JC can refuse to endorse the basic principle of NATO, that has kept the peace in Europe for 60 years.

 

His 'dewey eyed' vision of a world at total peace, with no need  for military alliances may well appeal to his young band of new supporters, who have no  experience of the cold war. 

 

I'm no militarist - far from it, but am a realisitc who recognises that the first thing Putin did when taking over Russia, was to restore the Soviet Union national anthem. He also, of course, wishes to restore the Soviet Union by stealth.

 

 

[Ricardo]

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has just announced that he is supporting Owen Smith against Jeremy Corbyn ...

 

"Mr Khan said: "Jeremy has already proved that he is unable to organise an effective team and has failed to win the trust and respect of the British people.

"Jeremy's personal ratings are the worst of any opposition leader on record and the Labour party is suffering badly as a result.

"He has lost the confidence of more than 80% of Labour's MPs in Parliament - and I am afraid we simply cannot afford to go on like this."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37146729

[emilymat]

5 hours ago, Ricardo said:

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has just announced that he is supporting Owen Smith against Jeremy Corbyn ...

 

"Mr Khan said: "Jeremy has already proved that he is unable to organise an effective team and has failed to win the trust and respect of the British people.

"Jeremy's personal ratings are the worst of any opposition leader on record and the Labour party is suffering badly as a result.

"He has lost the confidence of more than 80% of Labour's MPs in Parliament - and I am afraid we simply cannot afford to go on like this."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37146729

and yet.....on the BBC Today programme yesterday he was repeatedly asked and refused to answer. In fairness, he wasbeing interviewed in relation to his first 100 days as Mayor.

[Ricardo]

"Jeremy Corbyn has said he would look to bolster the bargaining powers of trade unions if he wins the leadership vote."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37150553

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, Ricardo said:

"Jeremy Corbyn has said he would look to bolster the bargaining powers of trade unions if he wins the leadership vote."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37150553

Interesting article, thanks for the link.

[Ricardo]

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Interesting article, thanks for the link.

 

Very interesting, and some of it I do agree with, but he needs to get elected to do anything at all, and that's where I have my doubts.

 

"Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale is backing Owen Smith in the Labour Party leadership contest.

She said Mr Smith could reunite the party and win a general election."

 

and  ...  "Writing in the Daily Record, Ms Dugdale claimed Mr Corbyn was unable to appeal to enough voters to beat the Conservative Party.

"We can't pin our hopes on a leadership that speaks only to the converted rather than speaking to the country as a whole," she wrote."

 

  which is exactly the point, in my view !

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37150430

 

Anyway, the voting-papers apparently go out today  ...

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37150553

[Ricardo]

Sorry, by the way, I know I'm posting links mostly to the BBC-website, that's what I monitor myself.

 

But if anyone wants to post any other links, please feel free !  Wider information can only illuminate us all, watching from afar !

[Ricardo]

The unions tend to be backing Corbyn  ...  but not all of them  ...

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37158099

[ThaiPauly]

On 6/29/2016 at 8:56 PM, dogpatch55 said:

The thing is the Labour party has not had a great leader for a long long time!! Nor has the Tory party for that matter..

Michael Heseltine's Spitting Image character would have given it a good shot though

[laban]

Why can't the LP members admit he is unelectable


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[emilymat]

Next year will be interesting.

 

I foresee the re-election of JC and the further disintegration of the Labour Party (i.e. the split between the 'grass roots' - a they are called, and the Parliamentary party).

 

Now I realise that is not a particularly clever observation but,  supposing Teresa can stitch up something regarding Brexit and then argue she needs to take it 'to the country' then a General Election could well be on the cards ,with Labour decimated, UKIP coming through as a  reasonable force etc etc. The SNP would have to support a re-visit of Brexit, or they would look hypocritical in the extreme.

 

There are those on this forum who may be more knowledgable, but my understanding is that even though we have 5 year fixed term Parliaments now (dreadful thing in my opinion, removing the 'speculation' on when PM's call snap elections and also ensuring a lame duck parliament for the final year) a PM can go to the country if there is a major issue - perhaps a revision of the Brexit result. No bigger issue really

[Ricardo]

1 hour ago, ThaiPauly said:

Michael Heseltine's Spitting Image character would have given it a good shot though

 

Off-topic, but we can all use a laugh as we contemplate the weaker-Pound, so ...

 

 

and from 10 Downing Street, to the tune (first few seconds) of St Trinians  ...

 

 

[Ricardo]

Today's snippet is that JC wants to re-nationalize the National Health, copying Owen Smith, and reversing a decade of Labour-government changes and ending PFI (which Gordon Brown used mainly to massage over-spending figures lower). It's never been justified, everyone is against it in-opposition, but then fails to stop it once elected.

 

"Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is to promise to "remove" private provision within the NHS as part of plans to "renationalise" the health service.

In a speech on Wednesday, he will vow to make the NHS fully publicly funded and bring services provided privately "back into public hands".

A future Labour government would end PFI contracts in the NHS and restore publicly-funded bursaries for nurses."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37167256

Edited August 24, 2016 by Ricardo

[emilymat]

I see Owen Smith has indicated he would want a second referendum before final Brexit. Strengthens my belief Brexit will not happen. Even if JC gets elected, OS clearly represents the majority view of his parliamentary colleagues. Add those to SNP and many Tories - not to mention the Libdems and you could well get a majority for a second referendum, based on the 'outcome' of any deals.

 

As for JC's train stunt. OMG. The papers have crucified him.

[Ricardo]

Yes, Virgin Trains say they have CCTV showing him & his team walking past empty seats before the filming.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37171416

and  http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37167700

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/24/2016 at 7:33 AM, Ricardo said:

Today's snippet is that JC wants to re-nationalize the National Health, copying Owen Smith, and reversing a decade of Labour-government changes and ending PFI (which Gordon Brown used mainly to massage over-spending figures lower). It's never been justified, everyone is against it in-opposition, but then fails to stop it once elected.

 

"Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is to promise to "remove" private provision within the NHS as part of plans to "renationalise" the health service.

In a speech on Wednesday, he will vow to make the NHS fully publicly funded and bring services provided privately "back into public hands".

A future Labour government would end PFI contracts in the NHS and restore publicly-funded bursaries for nurses."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37167256

PFI was one of the truly appalling 'give money to our friends' (and ourselves in due course) initiatives.

 

But they got away with it .

[Ricardo]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

PFI was one of the truly appalling 'give money to our friends' (and ourselves in due course) initiatives.

 

But they got away with it .

 

I absolutely agree, it's a very expensive way to finance infrastructure-investment, and impossible to justify, unless you're a Chancellor of either party who wants to hide spending. Too often a PFI-investment is sold offshore, so that no tax is paid by the investors, and I really doubt the honesty of the calculations that purported to ever show that it was slightly cheaper at-the-time, to do things this way.

 

While lecturing us on how prudent they were being, lies lies lies, I'm afraid.

 

It costs far more, for thirty years after, and they've all really gone-to-town with it. And the bills will be falling-due for a long time to come, education-authorities & health-authorities are now struggling, to pay the costs.

 

Better for a government (any  government) to borrow itself more cheaply & build themselves, and carry the loans & investment 'on the books', except that then the taxpayers/voters would have seen just how much they were being committed to repay, at some point.

 

And that would never have done.

[samsensam]

On 8/5/2016 at 10:00 AM, kkerry said:

He may have been voted in by a landslide but Labour at the moment are like a corporation with a chairman totally at odds with the majority of his board, it's unworkable.

 

His supporters can stick to their principals if they wish, but they can look forward to years in the parliamentary wilderness as few undecided voters will vote for a party in such disarray.

Corbyn might be a good man but a Labour Party led by him is going nowhere fast.

 

Corbyn has been portrayed as a good man however cracks are starting to show; over the last couple of days he's been shown to be a liar about being aboard a 'ram packed' train - the fact he couldnt find a ram packed train in the UK for his stunt is stunning, and he's been economical with the truth regarding Bernie Sanders support for him.

 

but the truth is that the UK deserves a leader of the opposition up the the job of challenging and acting as a check on the government, something Corbyn and his team are hopeless at.

[Ricardo]

Anyway, to get back to the thread-topic, today's story is that Jeremy Corbyn has apparently ruled-out any possible coalition-pact with the Scottish-Nationalists, against the advice of his own Shadow Scottish Secretary.

 

"The current leader of Labour, Jeremy Corbyn, has ruled out his party entering into a coalition with the SNP.

He made his view clear ahead of taking part in a leadership hustings in Glasgow with rival Owen Smith.

 

Mr Corbyn's Shadow Scottish Secretary Dave Anderson had urged Labour to consider an SNP coalition."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37174140

 

So the Labour Party having lost the large block of Scottish MPs, he wouldn't ever deal with the people who now represent those former-Labour voters, even if it were the only way to get back into government.  One can only wonder, why ever not ?

[Ricardo]

Jeremy Corbyn wants a probe into excluded voters, after a union leader who supports him was barred, from voting in the leadership-election or attending party-meetings, including the annual-conference next month.

 

"He has handed a list of names to party officials, saying he wants a "fair and open" contest, with all those eligible to take part able to do so.

Allies of Mr Corbyn have claimed there is a "rigged purge" of his supporters after a union leader was excluded."

 

"The most senior official in the Labour Party, general secretary Iain McNicol, has insisted the decision to suspend Mr Draper had been taken by elected members of the party's ruling body, the NEC, not by unelected party officials as claimed by Corbyn supporters.

But Mr Corbyn has urged the NEC, of which he is a member, to reconsider the move."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37184118