Youths who murdered handicapped bread seller won't face premeditated murder charge

[gyrosman]

Ahhh...Thai justice in action...

Instead of pure thai bashing please explain what you mean.

Thai bashing or just pointing out facts that they are children of police officers and being treated with kitten gloves. What about the movie star, Red Bull son commit crimes and paid their way out. What justice system would you call that?

What would do if that was your father, brother or uncle mercilessly hacked to death by street thugs, not premeditated, using swords what were they thinking only going to bruise him?

[The Deerhunter]

Its very hard to prove that anything is premeditated in Thailand .

Yeah! Premeditation involves planning.

[GAZZPA]

Is there not an option to charge the offender(s) with premeditated murder if the death is during the commission of a premeditated crime?

Don't think so. If they planned to harm this guy then it doesn't mean they meant to kill him.

However, I would argue if they planned the attack and were going armed with swords surely thats a case for premeditated murder, right?

[trainman34014]

Its very hard to prove that anything is premeditated in Thailand .

Apart from extracting your money !

[fxe1200]

Ahhh...Thai justice in action...

...wait until the sentence is being halfed, because they admit the crime , then the culprits will be released on bail, and latest after two years they will walk free.

[mesterm]

Its very hard to prove that anything is premeditated in Thailand .

Except for incidents related to balconies, for then it is always premeditated suicide.

[rkidlad]

Ahhh...Thai justice in action...

Instead of pure thai bashing please explain what you mean.

No, it's not Thai bashing. The government, police and courts have a reputation here. It wasn't created after one bad case of injustice.

Think of it like a scientific experiment. We do tests to see the results. The same result may not happen the same way all the time, but if it happens let's say 7-8 times out of 10, then we usually expect that result to happen.

There are always anomalies, but they're an exception. Another analogy would be gambling. You wouldn't back a s***** horse. Sure, that horse could come good in some races, but there's a reason why you don't put money on it. I guess the easiest way to sum it up is 'logic'.

It's not personal it's business.

Far too much explanation, seems more than 3 single syllable words exceeds the comprehension capabilities.

I know, but someone people just don't get.

I sometimes don't know who's worse; the people who slag off Thailand for anything and everything, or the people who try and defend the things that are indefensible.

[Classic Ray]

Good job for them the Thai law is weaker than English law on the definition of murder, although there is no longer the death penalty in the UK. Premeditation not required, only the intent to cause serious harm or injury. Mandatory life sentence on conviction, but usually up for parole after a period of 8 - 10 years. Definition below from Wikipedia.

Murder is an offence under the common law of England and Wales. It is considered the most serious form of homicide, in which one person kills another with the intention to unlawfully cause either death or serious injury. The element of intentionality was originally termed malice aforethought although it required neither malice nor premeditation.

Because murder is generally defined in law as an intent to cause serious harm or injury (alone or with others), combined with a death arising from that intention, there are certain circumstances where a death will be treated as murder even if the defendant did not wish to kill the actual victim. This is called "transferred malice", and arises in two common cases: -

• The defendant intended serious harm to one or more persons, but an unintended other person dies as a result;
• Several people share an intent to do serious harm, and the victim dies because of the action of any of those involved (for example, if another person goes "further than expected" or performs an unexpectedly lethal action).

[DLang]

Its very hard to prove that anything is premeditated in Thailand .

Depends on three things.

If you're wearing yellow underpants.

Red underpants.

Have a large bank account.

[MZurf]

let me take a guess, they will be sentenced to 20-30 years, they confess they are guilty, their sentence will be half to 10-15 years. On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so.

I think Thailand should not allow halving of jail terms for murder crimes.

" On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so."

Five years? I'd be surprised if they served even one.

[donnybay]

"A life sentence or 15-20 years can also be imposed"

So how did the money laundering(supposedly) Dutchman get 107 years? .

[bendejo]

Four of the accused are children of serving police officers at the nearby Chok Chai 4 police station.

Curious that this case was not swept under the rug, never to see the light of day, no?

[mercman24]

correct me if i am wrong but i am sure i read that these toe rags went away and returned tooled up for revenge, how cannot that be pre meditated..

[Moonmoon]

from whatever honor n loss of face they felt from getting involved in a quarrel with a handicap till they have to bring in 7 of their kind to hack a handicap to death. It is a much bigger loss of face n no honor whatsoever at all now its all over the news that they did such cowardly attack on a handicap with 7 fully develop bodies of theirs'.

Imprison them for 70-80 years with attitude adjustment everyday. that is the best mercy anyone can show them

[Baerboxer]

If you bring lethal weapons to an attack, there's a good chance you were intending to seriously hurt or kill.

I get it - some people may pick up a baseball bat in the heat of the moment to scare someone else. But as they say in the movies "If you're gonna bring a weapon, you better be prepared to use it".

Thing in this case is they brought these weapons 7 people strong to do what? Scare a disabled man? No, it would seem they had all the intent in the world to use their weapons and they did. I guess at the end of the day 'it's not what you know it's what you can prove'. Only problem is - in Thailand that very rarely applies. But Thailand sure is selective in it's prosecutions.

I seriously doubt that they would be charged with premeditated murder by any criminal system. For that charge there would need to be evidence they went out, with the sole intention of murdering the victim.

As I understood it, they exchanged insults, went back and tooled up, came back and in the ensuing fight killed the victim.

6 on one, with an stupid girl egging them on, armed and fighting with a disabled person is despicable and they deserve to be charged, and from the evidence I saw on CCTV and read, convicted and punished. The defense will do all they can to try to mitigate the circumstances, plead leniency etc whilst 4 having police officer parents always raises worrying eyebrows. Hopefully the courts will, if finding them guilty look towards the higher end of the scale with lengthy prison sentences as a minimum.

The court still have the option of the death penalty, life or 15-20 years if they wish.

[Baerboxer]

correct me if i am wrong but i am sure i read that these toe rags went away and returned tooled up for revenge, how cannot that be pre meditated..

Because that act, as foul as it was, was a reaction to the initial confrontation.

Had they have gone off, allowed some time to pass, and then planned and executed an attack and murder it would be premeditated.

But they didn't. It was all essentially one action.

[Baerboxer]

let me take a guess, they will be sentenced to 20-30 years, they confess they are guilty, their sentence will be half to 10-15 years. On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so.

I think Thailand should not allow halving of jail terms for murder crimes.

" On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so."

Five years? I'd be surprised if they served even one.

Possibly first or minor offenders, police officer daddies for 4 of them, never been to prison before, full of remorse, wai-ing, possible trip to the monkhood etc.

Sadly, I agree and wouldn't be at all surprised if they receive suspended sentences, community service, and a telling off. Victims family will be given some money and warned not to comment or keep making a noise. Hope I'm wrong.

[kannot]

...took them long enough to connive and contrive.....???

,,,,,I suppose we will be hearing about how remorseful the savage and cowardly murderers suddenly are.....

....and becoming monks etc.....

....to live and kill another day perhaps....???

nah just move straight into the ranks of the BIB

[MZurf]

Four of the accused are children of serving police officers at the nearby Chok Chai 4 police station.

Curious that this case was not swept under the rug, never to see the light of day, no?

I think we can thank social media for that.

[Classic Ray]

I seriously doubt that they would be charged with premeditated murder by any criminal system. For that charge there would need to be evidence they went out, with the sole intention of murdering the victim.

As I understood it, they exchanged insults, went back and tooled up, came back and in the ensuing fight killed the victim.

6 on one, with an stupid girl egging them on, armed and fighting with a disabled person is despicable and they deserve to be charged, and from the evidence I saw on CCTV and read, convicted and punished. The defense will do all they can to try to mitigate the circumstances, plead leniency etc whilst 4 having police officer parents always raises worrying eyebrows. Hopefully the courts will, if finding them guilty look towards the higher end of the scale with lengthy prison sentences as a minimum.

The court still have the option of the death penalty, life or 15-20 years if they wish.

As I said in my earlier post, in the UK justice system they would certainly have been charged with murder as by their actions it could clearly be shown that one or more of them intended to do him serious bodily harm.

So there is at least one criminal justice system where this would have happened, and one victim would have had justice done for him.

[MZurf]

let me take a guess, they will be sentenced to 20-30 years, they confess they are guilty, their sentence will be half to 10-15 years. On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so.

I think Thailand should not allow halving of jail terms for murder crimes.

" On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so."

Five years? I'd be surprised if they served even one.

Possibly first or minor offenders, police officer daddies for 4 of them, never been to prison before, full of remorse, wai-ing, possible trip to the monkhood etc.

Sadly, I agree and wouldn't be at all surprised if they receive suspended sentences, community service, and a telling off. Victims family will be given some money and warned not to comment or keep making a noise. Hope I'm wrong.

Me too, but all the years I've spent in Thailand have turned me into a cynic. And even if they are convicted and given a jail sentence they might not spend any time in jail. From what I've heard on many occasions (including from my wife) it's not uncommon for people with means to pay someone to do the time for them.

Edited July 12, 2016 by MZurf

[djayz]

These were the kids of the police, right? Or am I getting my murderers mixed up?

Four of the 7 are, according to the report, children of police officers at the Chok Chai police station.

Edited July 12, 2016 by djayz

[balford]

Isn't it just absolutely bloody fantastic, the rest of the civilised world must be so jealous of such a great system.

Seems it's the best money can buy.

Bob A. Relaxed in Lampang

[Gecko123]

Many here assume that the legal standard of "premeditation" is the same as the lay definition. It isn't.

Many here also assume that the legal standard of "premeditation" is universal, i.e., the same as it is back home. It isn't.

My understanding is that under Thai law, premeditation requires planning to commit the crime prior to the crime taking place, i.e., not in the heat of the moment and with deliberation.

There are so many people following this case (the victim's outspoken family, their attorneys, the government, the press, etc.), I am sure that the evidence was reviewed with extreme care by the prosecutors.

Listening to the TV court room pundits howl as if not being charged with premeditated murder is a terrible miscarriage of justice leaves me perplexed. Charged with homicide, they still face the death penalty.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Gecko123

[djayz]

let me take a guess, they will be sentenced to 20-30 years, they confess they are guilty, their sentence will be half to 10-15 years. On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so.

I think Thailand should not allow halving of jail terms for murder crimes.

" On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so."

Five years? I'd be surprised if they served even one.

I'm surprised they're being held at all... never mind doing time.

[MZurf]

let me take a guess, they will be sentenced to 20-30 years, they confess they are guilty, their sentence will be half to 10-15 years. On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so.

I think Thailand should not allow halving of jail terms for murder crimes.

" On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so."

Five years? I'd be surprised if they served even one.

I'm surprised they're being held at all... never mind doing time.

Well, they might not be held at all.

[djayz]

let me take a guess, they will be sentenced to 20-30 years, they confess they are guilty, their sentence will be half to 10-15 years. On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so.

I think Thailand should not allow halving of jail terms for murder crimes.

" On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so."

Five years? I'd be surprised if they served even one.

I'm surprised they're being held at all... never mind doing time.

Well, they might not be held at all.

Very good point, but, according to the article, they are being held. Neither one of us can know their whereabouts for sure.

I sincerely hope they are behind bars.

[SABloke]

I seriously doubt that they would be charged with premeditated murder by any criminal system. For that charge there would need to be evidence they went out, with the sole intention of murdering the victim.

As I understood it, they exchanged insults, went back and tooled up, came back and in the ensuing fight killed the victim.

6 on one, with an stupid girl egging them on, armed and fighting with a disabled person is despicable and they deserve to be charged, and from the evidence I saw on CCTV and read, convicted and punished. The defense will do all they can to try to mitigate the circumstances, plead leniency etc whilst 4 having police officer parents always raises worrying eyebrows. Hopefully the courts will, if finding them guilty look towards the higher end of the scale with lengthy prison sentences as a minimum.

The court still have the option of the death penalty, life or 15-20 years if they wish.

As I said in my earlier post, in the UK justice system they would certainly have been charged with murder as by their actions it could clearly be shown that one or more of them intended to do him serious bodily harm.

So there is at least one criminal justice system where this would have happened, and one victim would have had justice done for him.

They ARE being charged with murder

"Instead the six male teenagers and one female who egged them on will face murder with intent along with weapons charges."

[cockatoowho]

Four of the accused are children of serving police officers at the nearby Chok Chai 4 police station.

Curious that this case was not swept under the rug, never to see the light of day, no?

I think we can thank social media for that.

Sure can, but it's the media the Junta want to get rid of or muzzle, so incidents of this nature never will see the light of day.

[cockatoowho]

let me take a guess, they will be sentenced to 20-30 years, they confess they are guilty, their sentence will be half to 10-15 years. On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so.

I think Thailand should not allow halving of jail terms for murder crimes.

" On good behavior they will be out just after 5 years or so."

Five years? I'd be surprised if they served even one.

Possibly first or minor offenders, police officer daddies for 4 of them, never been to prison before, full of remorse, wai-ing, possible trip to the monkhood etc.

Sadly, I agree and wouldn't be at all surprised if they receive suspended sentences, community service, and a telling off. Victims family will be given some money and warned not to comment or keep making a noise. Hope I'm wrong.

Me too, but all the years I've spent in Thailand have turned me into a cynic. And even if they are convicted and given a jail sentence they might not spend any time in jail. From what I've heard on many occasions (including from my wife) it's not uncommon for people with means to pay someone to do the time for them.

You hear correct, had a brother-in-law who took an arranged rap for his ex missus some years after the the crime was committed. He was told he would do a little time and get out, of which was correct, only he came out in a body bag,