Thai sex industry under fire from tourism minister, police

[Jonmarleesco]

Catering for dirty old men isn't really applicable in the 21st century. I must admit picturing a young pretty Thai lady barely 20 years old, with a drooling fart, old enough to be her grandfather is quite repulsive. In EU this would be considered unacceptable. Regretfully, Thailand does seemingly attract the dregs of society .. the sex tourists, perverts, and criminals. Most come after failing to attract a woman in their home country, (which is not surprising). So they come to LOS, as looks/age don't matter, so long as you have a fat bank account. I have witnessed 60 year-old men acting like a 21 year-old, which just looks ridiculous. Would be nice if Thailand cleaned-up it's act. The bars, and whore-houses were catering for the US service men at the time of the Vietnam war, well those days are gone. Time to clean-up the image of the country that is for sure.

'In EU this would be considered unacceptable.' Obviously you've not long woken up, Rip, otherwise you would have heard of Silvio Berlusconi. If need be, look up his name. You'll find it under Italian media, or ex-PM.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Jonmarleesco

[moobie]

I've just returned from a two week stint in and around Bangkok - predominantly around the lower soi area of Sukhumvit. Of the bars I visited I guess I was in Nana Entertainment Plaza 3 times and this was to meet friends who had pre-arranged to meet up at specific establishments.

And to be totally honest some nights I did not bother to venture out but either read a book or caught up on collected media.

(The reason I mention that is because I would appear to be the classic profile of a sex tourist, white, 50's, single male traveller, etc. but I can tell you truthfully that if there is anything I find soul crushingly depressing it is a go-go bar. So much so that my tendency is to associate with the serving staff rather than the supposed eye-candy. Give me a bar any day.)

From these visits and other bars around the area to see acquaintances, both Western and Thai, I would say that the problem of venue based prostitution in this area soon may NOT be a problem The amount of venues with few or no customers in would unsettle me if I had connections to them. Add the fact that people were walking into some of these places and asking if and when Happy Hour occurred then you have a realisation that for many visitors the money factor is a big issue. As a consequence, those serving staff / bargirls, etc would be unlikely to be bought drinks, etc. thus ruining one of the objectives in working in a bar and so a cycle begins....

(And here I will go out on a limb. Whilst I realise it is the low / rainy season my prediction is that the high season in a few months time will see fewer people visit the "zones" than last year. Thailand is too expensive in relative terms and the economies of many nations have never really recovered from the 2008 Financial woes, regardless of what politicians say. I will hopefully be corrected on this in a few months time.)

Personally, if you removed prostitution from Thailand it would not bother me as a visitor and may actually improve my experience. My hotel was on soi 11 and a walk from there to my "local" on soi 7/1 was one long request for sexual services. All of which I declined. Outside the hotel, which now predominantly caters to those from the Indian sub-continent, were a myriad of massage girls, street walkers, etc. and one evening (thanks to thin walls and loud voices) I had the opportunity to listen to some Indian guy try to talk a price down from 400 Baht for a bareback full service. Luckily, the woman would not agree to this but did offer a bareback BJ at a slightly reduced price. Quality tourists indeed!

During this same trip I had occasion to visit the Dinosaur Park near Phrom Phong (soi 22) and realised that whilst the core visitors were Thai this was the type of attraction which would be needed if trying to tempt families into Bangkok/Thailand but on a far bigger scale and quantity. As others have said to break the cycle of prostitution you will need quality, well paying jobs and a decent welfare safety net should an individual hit problems. Both of which I cannot be easily solved in Thailand currently. You also need the means and availability of social movement but I guess given current conditions this is only available to many by marriage to some foreigner.

Worryingly and I work in the Tech sector, according to the Bangkok Post in the past 2 weeks, Thailand can no longer rely on its low labour rates to attract external investment due to the increase of automation and the introduction of AI technologies which allow companies to re-house their production base on to home territory. The given impact of this could extend to 12 million jobs within Thailand alone and I would guess the majority of these to be female. Given the current lack of welfare state and employment possibilities it is not difficult to see where some of these people may end up.

Contrary arguments I must say but in general I think the "in your face" sex scene is embarrassing the Thai people in charge who may wish to drive it away but due to economic pressure may allow loopholes or a more covert form to continue. And to survive many must adapt.

Edited July 18, 2016 by moobie

[djlest]

Nothings going anywhere - trust me! its just words coming from an empowered female...
In reality the majority of Thai women even those that work in banks, seven elevens or in offices - are and always will be, by the default in Thai society.... Prostitutes,,

Its just the way they think....are, and always will be...
The easy way out with the most fun will always trump hard work and thinking.

And lets not forget who supports the Thai men? and the endless families up north....
It would cause Thailand to go into a massive recession...

[madpat]

I mostly agree with Jacko, it's all part of the mix - along with temples, beaches, spicy food, ladyboys, shady characters, bad English, etc.- that differentiates Thailand from other destinations, gives it a certain "frisson", if that's the right word, and draws people here. I can never understand people who come to live here, then complain because Thailand is what it is.

I agree, but what alternative does this woman have up her sleeve. I think I can say that there are most probably more than 120,000 females working in the trade and when you take into account the others employed such as bar staff, cleaners ,security, the number affected is a lot higher.

She says she wants to get rid of people trafficking, the sad news is this happens in all industries look at the row over shrimp fishing, and all this stuff willl only go underground with the ladies having less protection than before. If you do not believe this visit London where 100's of Eastern European girls are duped into the sex trade with the promise of good jobs once they are here their passports are taken and told if they do not comply their families are in danger. Can you imagine this in Thailand where the police cannot investigate a murder by car by a rich person what chance would a poor village girl have.

It would be better if it was better regulated ( how many illegal premises keep being found ?) and if there was less (alleged) corruption within the law community. It is a fact of life that prostitution exists all over the world a lot more countries make a better fist of it due to legalisation and control so instead of knee jerk responses and ill thought out news releases maybe the authorities should work at a better safer, healthier enviroment for these ladies to work under.How many officials government and law enforcement have stakes in these places, is this a ploy to cut down the number of the opposition because things seem to be slowing down and the bad publicity Thailand has been getting recently..

I write this a a guy who has been lucky to find a beautiful Thai woman and the last few years of my life have been the happiest for a long long time,yes she was working in walking street in a rock bar but the last 4 years have been the best. I include this just to show I am not just some perv who is sad to see the sex side vanishing but as somebody who has enjoyed both sides of this fantastic country and will continue to do so till the day I die.

Also Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam would love the Thai business.

Best wishes to you all Ps sorry it is such a long post

[bheard]

"with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye."

Total rubbish. The authorities at all levels have a clear eye on it because of the amount of money it puts in their pockets.

[ScotBkk]

After working in the hospitality industry here in Thailand for years, it seems to me that many people in this forum are sadly mistaken about the state of the tourism industry over here.

In all of the hotels I've worked at (4-5 stars), 90% of the clientele are couples and families. Only 10% are single male travelers. Those 90% also tend to spend a lot more on average than the other 10%, at least within the confines of the hotel (spa, food and beverage, excursions, etc...).

The same is true on the other end of the spectrum, in very cheap guesthouses. Those tend to cater mostly to groups of young people or young singles who typically can find sex without having to pay for it and mostly tend to hookup with other foreign travelers anyway.

That leaves the 2-3stars hotels, which are where most single males stay. In such hotels located in tourist destinations, it's about a 50%/50% ratio, with 50% groups and families and 50% single 30y+ men. I sincerely doubt, however, that travelers who can't spend more than 1,500 to 2,000 baht/night for accommodation spend a considerable amount of money while they are outside their hotel.

Edit: Those ratios apply to places where I actually have hands-on experience (BKK, Phuket and Samui). Pattaya, on the other hand, probably has a much higher single men ratio, but that's only one town out of about ten major tourist hotspots in Thailand.

Your detailed information

I would like to commend you for your personal rundown on how the country operates per your percentage quotas. Maybe we should suggest TAT ban these deplorable cheap Charlie commoners from coming to Thailand leaving the big spenders more room to splash money about here there and everywhere.

Let's jail families who try to get discounts or even single men seen to importune themselves masquerading around looking for cheap digs. The time has come to end these working class paupers from enjoying holidays at quality tourists expense.

You got it all figured out mate thank you for your input and now this post should be closed.

Just saying .......

[F4UCorsair]

I remember Singapore in the 60's, the infamous Bugis Street, and the government decreed that it would be cleaned up. Some tourists started going elsewhere, and Hong Kong was top of the list.

Hong Kong was apparently a wild place, over on the island in the Suzy Wong area. Then the government said it would be cleaned up, so some tourists started going elsewhere.

Now it's Thailand's turn to clean up, and no doubt there is an element of the tourism industry that will go elsewhere, probably Vietnam and the Philippines.

Whilst I don't condone the sex tourism industry, not for me, there are a lot of jobs involved, not just the hookers, but clubs, bars, restaurants, taxi's, hotels, etc. Think long and hard about it minister.

[citzofwrld]

I mostly agree with Jacko, it's all part of the mix - along with temples, beaches, spicy food, ladyboys, shady characters, bad English, etc.- that differentiates Thailand from other destinations, gives it a certain "frisson", if that's the right word, and draws people here. I can never understand people who come to live here, then complain because Thailand is what it is.

Like I said before, move it all out to a large island a mile or so off shore, with boats taking life's seedy characters back and forth 24/7. They can serve drinks onboard, girls can climb all over men the whole journey. A captive audience, perfect. Believe it or not, all males aren't obsessed with sex with women, men, children and LB's. Throw booze and drugs into the mix, it makes for a very unsafe, unwelcoming environment on the mainland for tourists, especially with children. Driving most away. I've lost track how many times I've been called out to, grabbed by girls trying to take me into massage parlors, and I've been accosted twice by LB's in five months, way away from the area's they frequent. I'm 65 yrs old, that crap really gets old very quick. I've heard the same complaints from other males of all ages. Many, if not most people, come to Thailand to relax, the nice year long weather, the mostly kind people, the beaches, cultural attractions, cheap food and living arrangements. The sex starved only see Thailand as their personal paradise, they care not about others.

[SoiBiker]

Nothings going anywhere - trust me! its just words coming from an empowered female...

In reality the majority of Thai women even those that work in banks, seven elevens or in offices - are and always will be, by the default in Thai society.... Prostitutes,,

Its just the way they think....are, and always will be...

The easy way out with the most fun will always trump hard work and thinking.

And lets not forget who supports the Thai men? and the endless families up north....

It would cause Thailand to go into a massive recession...

What a load of offensive trash.

[SoiBiker]

I was asked (repeatedly) on the other thread on this subject what I meant when I said that sex tourism attracted some unpleasant individuals.

I think some of the posts on this thread make it pretty clear.

[bkkcanuck8]

If the goal is to target sex tourism and the sex industry as part of tourism, then the logical first step would be to target the most visible parts of it, the part that acts as a lure... and that is places like Soi Cowboy, Nana Plaza, Patpong, and Pattaya. Eliminate any place that is skirting the prostitution laws by allowing "employees" to be barfined, or dancing on stage in "beach-wear" or less around polls in bars. Get rid of the most visible signs and you will see a significant drop in the tourists they don't want (even if there are less visible options). These places act like big advertising campaigns. The question is if she is serious - why not start with the most visible.... I can think of many reasons why not...

[SoiBiker]

How about just making bar fines illegal?

[krdowney]

There's an angle that has not been discussed. The Junta now, or in the past, do not care as much about sectors of the economy that it does not directly profit from. Now the Tourism industry is run various mafia's, especially in the islands. Less tourists simply weaken the the mafia, which the Junta has openly stated as one of it's primary goals. The sex industry for Thai nationals is typically owned by wealthy Thai-Chinese. This is profitable for them, but likely not for the Junta. As for tourist areas (Pattaya, Soi Cowboy, Nana, Silom (kinda) bars are mainly owned by military and police. NOT ALL MILITARY AND POLICE ARE ON THE JUNTA'S SIDE. What is likely is that getting rid of the sex industry (or tourism) would hurt the Junta less than it will the whole country, but that is not their concern.

Also, there is a tale two generals. One general was old school and believed that there was no reason to disrupt people's fun and revenue streams when under military rule. Another general is very religiously motivated and believes that people should not have fun or revenue streams if those come from immoral practices. These two generals are friends and debate this point a lot. The End.

[anotheruser]

Catering for dirty old men isn't really applicable in the 21st century. I must admit picturing a young pretty Thai lady barely 20 years old, with a drooling fart, old enough to be her grandfather is quite repulsive. In EU this would be considered unacceptable. Regretfully, Thailand does seemingly attract the dregs of society .. the sex tourists, perverts, and criminals. Most come after failing to attract a woman in their home country, (which is not surprising). So they come to LOS, as looks/age don't matter, so long as you have a fat bank account. I have witnessed 60 year-old men acting like a 21 year-old, which just looks ridiculous. Would be nice if Thailand cleaned-up it's act. The bars, and whore-houses were catering for the US service men at the time of the Vietnam war, well those days are gone. Time to clean-up the image of the country that is for sure.

Wow......at least we know how you feel.

Ahem, correct me if I got your wrong but . . . the "dirty" old men you refer to are not in a brothel but with a girl-friend. How do you legislate against such an old man being with a young girl-friend? Closing the brothels is unlikely to make any difference.

Yes, I too am sometime appalled by the behaviour of falang in Thailand - the presence of a number of loud drunk males in "wife-beater" t-shirts com plainly loudly never improves my evening. To solve this, I just go to places where those guys don't hang out.

I have to disagree with you on the age-difference issue. I have met quite a number of older foreign gents with younger wives in Thailand who are polite, good company and are well-integrated. I have also met a few older Thai gents with much younger partners. Why do you have something against them?

I have to declare a personal interest in this argument - and no, before you jump to conclusions, I don't live in Thailand, I am not over 60 years old and I don't have a 20-year-old girlfriend. It is just that my father was a few decades older than my mother and they met when she was about 20 (BTW, neither of them were Thailand and neither had ever been to Thailand). If somehow you had managed to legislate against them being together, I would never have been born!

Making legislation of this kind is actually surprisingly simple. They could do like Cambodia did and ban guys 50 and over getting married, impose a minimum amount of income per month for those under 50.

This would be the ultimate compliment to the 50 year old minimum age for retirement visas. I could see a few guys mulling over their options at that point.

[brewsterbudgen]

'“We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone,” Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.' She does realise most of the customers are not tourists, does she?

By definition I believe she is referring to the tourist sex industry.

How about just making bar fines illegal?

But some barfine a girl/boy and take them out to dinner or to a movie. Why should that be illegal? The beauty of the barfine is that what happens after they leave the bar is completely down to the two individuals concerned and nobody else's business.

[anotheruser]

I've just returned from a two week stint in and around Bangkok - predominantly around the lower soi area of Sukhumvit. Of the bars I visited I guess I was in Nana Entertainment Plaza 3 times and this was to meet friends who had pre-arranged to meet up at specific establishments.

And to be totally honest some nights I did not bother to venture out but either read a book or caught up on collected media.

(The reason I mention that is because I would appear to be the classic profile of a sex tourist, white, 50's, single male traveller, etc. but I can tell you truthfully that if there is anything I find soul crushingly depressing it is a go-go bar. So much so that my tendency is to associate with the serving staff rather than the supposed eye-candy. Give me a bar any day.)

From these visits and other bars around the area to see acquaintances, both Western and Thai, I would say that the problem of venue based prostitution in this area soon may NOT be a problem The amount of venues with few or no customers in would unsettle me if I had connections to them. Add the fact that people were walking into some of these places and asking if and when Happy Hour occurred then you have a realisation that for many visitors the money factor is a big issue. As a consequence, those serving staff / bargirls, etc would be unlikely to be bought drinks, etc. thus ruining one of the objectives in working in a bar and so a cycle begins....

(And here I will go out on a limb. Whilst I realise it is the low / rainy season my prediction is that the high season in a few months time will see fewer people visit the "zones" than last year. Thailand is too expensive in relative terms and the economies of many nations have never really recovered from the 2008 Financial woes, regardless of what politicians say. I will hopefully be corrected on this in a few months time.)

Personally, if you removed prostitution from Thailand it would not bother me as a visitor and may actually improve my experience. My hotel was on soi 11 and a walk from there to my "local" on soi 7/1 was one long request for sexual services. All of which I declined. Outside the hotel, which now predominantly caters to those from the Indian sub-continent, were a myriad of massage girls, street walkers, etc. and one evening (thanks to thin walls and loud voices) I had the opportunity to listen to some Indian guy try to talk a price down from 400 Baht for a bareback full service. Luckily, the woman would not agree to this but did offer a bareback BJ at a slightly reduced price. Quality tourists indeed!

During this same trip I had occasion to visit the Dinosaur Park near Phrom Phong (soi 22) and realised that whilst the core visitors were Thai this was the type of attraction which would be needed if trying to tempt families into Bangkok/Thailand but on a far bigger scale and quantity. As others have said to break the cycle of prostitution you will need quality, well paying jobs and a decent welfare safety net should an individual hit problems. Both of which I cannot be easily solved in Thailand currently. You also need the means and availability of social movement but I guess given current conditions this is only available to many by marriage to some foreigner.

Worryingly and I work in the Tech sector, according to the Bangkok Post in the past 2 weeks, Thailand can no longer rely on its low labour rates to attract external investment due to the increase of automation and the introduction of AI technologies which allow companies to re-house their production base on to home territory. The given impact of this could extend to 12 million jobs within Thailand alone and I would guess the majority of these to be female. Given the current lack of welfare state and employment possibilities it is not difficult to see where some of these people may end up.

Contrary arguments I must say but in general I think the "in your face" sex scene is embarrassing the Thai people in charge who may wish to drive it away but due to economic pressure may allow loopholes or a more covert form to continue. And to survive many must adapt.

You picked an odd choice of place to stay if you aren't interested in the sex scene at Nana. Doesn't like hookers yet stays in Nana. Takes all kinds I guess.

[SoiBiker]

'We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.' She does realise most of the customers are not tourists, does she?

By definition I believe she is referring to the tourist sex industry.

How about just making bar fines illegal?

But some barfine a girl/boy and take them out to dinner or to a movie. Why should that be illegal? The beauty of the barfine is that what happens after they leave the bar is completely down to the two individuals concerned and nobody else's business.

Seriously? People take sex workers out on dates?

Wow.

[micmichd]

Some people don't pay for dates at all and keep it intimate.

[anotheruser]

'We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.' She does realise most of the customers are not tourists, does she?

By definition I believe she is referring to the tourist sex industry.

How about just making bar fines illegal?

But some barfine a girl/boy and take them out to dinner or to a movie. Why should that be illegal? The beauty of the barfine is that what happens after they leave the bar is completely down to the two individuals concerned and nobody else's business.

Seriously? People take sex workers out on dates?

Wow.

This is much more common then you might think.

Edited July 18, 2016 by anotheruser

[Nasrullah]

'We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.' She does realise most of the customers are not tourists, does she?

By definition I believe she is referring to the tourist sex industry.

How about just making bar fines illegal?

But some barfine a girl/boy and take them out to dinner or to a movie. Why should that be illegal? The beauty of the barfine is that what happens after they leave the bar is completely down to the two individuals concerned and nobody else's business.

Seriously? People take sex workers out on dates?

Wow.

Again,you don't indulge....so how would you know?

What some do would be called a date back in the west.........true......no?

[SoiBiker]

'We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.' She does realise most of the customers are not tourists, does she?

By definition I believe she is referring to the tourist sex industry.

How about just making bar fines illegal?

But some barfine a girl/boy and take them out to dinner or to a movie. Why should that be illegal? The beauty of the barfine is that what happens after they leave the bar is completely down to the two individuals concerned and nobody else's business.

Seriously? People take sex workers out on dates?

Wow.

Again,you don't indulge....so how would you know?

What some do would be called a date back in the west.........true......no?

I don't know - that's why I'm expressing surprise.

I've never heard of anyone hiring a prostitute to take to a movie in the West, though.

[Nasrullah]

Some people don't pay for dates at all and keep it intimate.

No shit!!!..........intimate??...Mmm ....maybe

[Nasrullah]

@soi biker

I don't know - that's why I'm expressing surprise.

I've never heard of anyone hiring a prostitute to take to a movie in the West, though.

hint........Well to do men with money.........I haven't seen it by eye,but read many stories on it

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[anotheruser]

"I don't know - that's why I'm expressing surprise.

I've never heard of anyone hiring a prostitute to take to a movie in the West, though."

You have never heard of escort services?

[SoiBiker]

"I don't know - that's why I'm expressing surprise.

I've never heard of anyone hiring a prostitute to take to a movie in the West, though."

You have never heard of escort services?

Yeah. But I pretty much assumed people hired them for sex.

[DrTuner]

Seriously? People take sex workers out on dates?

Wow.

That's what differentiates Thai hookers from their counterparts in other countries. They offer a full entertainment package, the "girlfriend experience". Without nagging or other undesirable tantrums. Although from what I've heard the industry has moved toward the western 'stick it in and be done within 30mins' business model.

[anotheruser]

"I don't know - that's why I'm expressing surprise.

I've never heard of anyone hiring a prostitute to take to a movie in the West, though."

You have never heard of escort services?

Yeah. But I pretty much assumed people hired them for sex.

Yes. that happens too. That's sort of what I mean sometimes it isn't so set in stone and black and white. Anyway this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. People should be allowed to do what they want to if they are consenting adults. I am somewhat annoyed I have to type a sentence that is so obvious.

In cases of human trafficking, rape, abuse etc. there are laws that cover those whether you are a prostitute or not. In fact legalizing prostitution has been beneficial in this regards in some countries that have gone down that road. I don't know what it would take to get a Thai man to treat his hookers nice however.

[SoiBiker]

Seriously? People take sex workers out on dates?

Wow.

That's what differentiates Thai hookers from their counterparts in other countries. They offer a full entertainment package, the "girlfriend experience". Without nagging or other undesirable tantrums. Although from what I've heard the industry has moved toward the western 'stick it in and be done within 30mins' business model.

If you think paying someone to pretend they don't find you distasteful is the same experience as having a girlfriend, you can't have had much luck with women.

[wileycoyote]

If the worst abuses: underage sex and human trafficking can be reduced,she will have done a good job

[DrTuner]

Seriously? People take sex workers out on dates?

Wow.

That's what differentiates Thai hookers from their counterparts in other countries. They offer a full entertainment package, the "girlfriend experience". Without nagging or other undesirable tantrums. Although from what I've heard the industry has moved toward the western 'stick it in and be done within 30mins' business model.

If you think paying someone to pretend they don't find you distasteful is the same experience as having a girlfriend, you can't have had much luck with women.

I don't think the tourists much care about taste while on their two week millionaire spending spree on the other side of the world. A rented girlfriend for a few days at a time was pretty much the gold standard a decade or so ago. Many ended up marrying their temps. It's more rare these days.