congratulations brexit voters

theoldgit · July 22, 2016

And then the French decide they're not going to let us maintain a border crossing on their territory at Calais, and we end up with the refugee camps in Dover instead.

Because that's what the voters wanted, right?

Interestingly there is an IRC, Immigration Removal Centre, in Dover that was closed and mothballed a few months ago - I wonder.................

sandyf · July 22, 2016

I see no advantage for the EU to a hasty departure.

It is clear that faced with the reality the leaving leaders gradually abandon every campaign promise.

So we are moving slowly but surely towards the Norwegian model with exactly the same contribution, the same duties and also the same business benefits than others.

But without taking part in decisions.

May need time to convince Brexiters these realities. Its partners in UE are well aware. So there is a kind of role play between the accomplices responsible enabling she to save time.

The appointment of BJ Is there to calm the leaving supporters. But himself has already hinted that an identical status to Norway would be the least bad.

And I'll bet big here as the ultimate challenge for any discussions will to retain the UK's huge privelege managing the bulk of transactions at City.

When we understand the 'But without taking part in the decisions' as - without any control over the decisions, it is clear that the best deal Brexit can deliver is exactly the EU the Brexit campaign said we need to escape;

Brexit means Brexit, but apart from the assertion that a word means itself, there is little if any clear statement on what the political, social and trade aims of Brexit are - what the UK's relationship with the EU will be, and as you point out, a waiting game is being played.

Meanwhile the leaders of the two most powerful nations in the EU (Germany and France) have both stated that the UK shall not be given tariff free access to the EU without accepting the EU regulations on the free movement of people.

This is where the crunch is going to come when the tariff free access meets free movement of labour. If the EU puts up tariff barriers then we would do the same and then stop the free movement of labour seems the logical outcome. I am sure the HMG will have also noticed that this where the crunch is going to come and will have a look at what agreements have been made with other trading nations regarding tariffs and labour movements.

It would have been a good idea to have thought about this before making promises that Brexit would free the UK from the EU regulations on the free movement of people.

Its another Brexit promise that nobody has any idea how it can be delivered.

Exactly, a promise made by people without any authority to make it.

There was no referendum on the termination of free movement. The question was remain or leave the EU, nothing on the ballot paper about not being a member of the EEA.

If the Brexit team decide to join the EEA and accept free movement the brexiteers have no complaint as that is not what the vote was about.

Of course they could always maintain they were misled or did not understand the implications.

Oxx · July 22, 2016

There probably won't be any restrictions on freedom of movement - you're kidding yourself if you think we'll get that concession. We barely have a leg to stand on in these negotiations, and we'll be lucky to get much at all - no matter how tough and British you think we should be.

There are alternative economic models. Look at Switzerland, a country famed for harbouring war criminals and exporting cuckoo clocks and Swatch watches. It would still be doing pretty well without the clocks and watches.

If the EU plays tough and refuses a trade agreement unless the UK allows unfettered immigration from EU countries with generous handouts for the European workshy and unemployable, then sobeit. There are plenty of other fish in the sea to fry.

IMA_FARANG · July 22, 2016

First of all, I am not a U.K. citizen, all praise be to a benevolent god, so I did not vote for or Brexit.

If I had been a Brit, I would have aid the same thing then as I said before on this forum.

I thought then, and still do that the U.K. voters were short changing themselves by staying in the EU.

I believed, and I still believe that the U.K. could do better on it's own....with the proviso that they may have to WORK for their money outside the comfy cushion of the EU.

Apparently many in the U.K. after all those years in the EU, want everything handed to them without the need to work for it.

I quoted a line from the Kurt Vonegut novel called, "Timequake".

In that novel, for some reason, everyone in the world has been stuck in the 1980's, repeating the same things over and over since 1980.

I pointed out that this was similar to the U.K. being in the EU, with everyone stuck in a time warp and going around in circles, but getting nowhere.

in Vongut's novel when the people begin to wake up from their experience of repeating the 1980's over and over again, the hero tells them the following:

"You have been sick, but now you are well, and we have work to be done."

And that is still my comment for those of you in the U.K. about leaving the EU.

tifino · July 22, 2016

hmmm, now why does this Episode remind me of something prophetic, as having just happened?

https://youtu.be/EkpS-yBj7gY

Edited July 22, 2016 by tifino

theoldgit · July 22, 2016

This will prove all those naysayers who wanted to remain wrong, see things are on the up.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36864273

Khun Han · July 22, 2016

When we understand the 'But without taking part in the decisions' as - without any control over the decisions, it is clear that the best deal Brexit can deliver is exactly the EU the Brexit campaign said we need to escape;

Brexit means Brexit, but apart from the assertion that a word means itself, there is little if any clear statement on what the political, social and trade aims of Brexit are - what the UK's relationship with the EU will be, and as you point out, a waiting game is being played.

Meanwhile the leaders of the two most powerful nations in the EU (Germany and France) have both stated that the UK shall not be given tariff free access to the EU without accepting the EU regulations on the free movement of people.

This is where the crunch is going to come when the tariff free access meets free movement of labour. If the EU puts up tariff barriers then we would do the same and then stop the free movement of labour seems the logical outcome. I am sure the HMG will have also noticed that this where the crunch is going to come and will have a look at what agreements have been made with other trading nations regarding tariffs and labour movements.

It would have been a good idea to have thought about this before making promises that Brexit would free the UK from the EU regulations on the free movement of people.

Its another Brexit promise that nobody has any idea how it can be delivered.

Exactly, a promise made by people without any authority to make it.
There was no referendum on the termination of free movement. The question was remain or leave the EU, nothing on the ballot paper about not being a member of the EEA.

If the Brexit team decide to join the EEA and accept free movement the brexiteers have no complaint as that is not what the vote was about.

Of course they could always maintain they were misled or did not understand the implications.

Mrs May told MPs: "I am very clear that the vote that was taken in this country on the 23 June sent a very clear message about immigration that people want control of free movement from the EU and that's precisely what we will be doing and ensuring that we get in the negotiations that we will be undertaking.

"I also remain absolutely firm in my belief that we need to bring net migration down to sustainable levels. The Government believes that that is the tens of thousands.

"It will take some time to get there but of course now we have the additional aspect of those controls we can bring to those people moving from the European Union."

http://news.sky.com/...outing-10507146

billd766 · July 22, 2016

All the predictions of doom haven't exactly come true, have they?

Really ,? GBP @ under 45 bht , the new norm .

At 14.30 this afternoon KBank was at 45.77.

That is down from Tuesday at 46.20 and up from Wednesday at 45.12.

When I first came here in 1993 it was less than 44 and in July of 1977 it was over 85.

The exchange rates of ANY currency vary over a long period.

You on the other hand are crowing. but this is only one months figures. Look again in 3 months, 6 months and a years time for what it will be then.

billd766 · July 22, 2016

Really ,? GBP @ under 45 bht , the new norm .

If you are getting under 45 you are being shafted.

I do wish you Remoaners would stop posting spurious figures. Here are a few REAL figures:-

Government Savings Bank

45.383

Thank you , so mush . @ 45.383 , i can now live a quality life , expected of a ex Brit,, existing in LOS .

Try it out. You will survive but maybe cut back a little for a while.

Just think how much more it would cost if you had to live in the UK with all their taxes, rules and regulations.

kingalfred · July 22, 2016

Really ,? GBP @ under 45 bht , the new norm .

If you are getting under 45 you are being shafted.

I do wish you Remoaners would stop posting spurious figures. Here are a few REAL figures:-

Government Savings Bank

45.383

Thank you , so mush . @ 45.383 , i can now live a quality life , expected of a ex Brit,, existing in LOS .

Try it out. You will survive but maybe cut back a little for a while.

Just think how much more it would cost if you had to live in the UK with all their taxes, rules and regulations.

yeah could be like the USA. Omg

Khun Han · July 22, 2016

This will prove all those naysayers who wanted to remain wrong, see things are on the up.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36864273

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/that-brexit-apocalypse-it-just-isnt-happening/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/21/so-far-so-good-for-the-post-brexit-economy/

billd766 · July 22, 2016

It's not over yet - no matter how much you want it to be. How about you stop whining about a perfectly reasonable debate and attempting to shut it down?
what debate? Only a couple of you on here keep going on 90% of us got what we wanted ,its over move on

Here we go again, though I notivmce the claimed percentage has gone up.

If it were over May would not have delayed signing Article 50 and would be able to proclaim the UK:

Free from EU laws and regulation

Free from the EU free movement of people

Free from having to pay for tge EU

These three simple Brexit promises are nowhere in sight and all other Brexit promises have been proven as lies.

Theresa May won't trigger article 50 until there is a plan in place to Brexit. After all why start something when there is no plan and though you may not accept it, the responsibility for that plan belongs in the lap of the current government as THEY are the ones in power. That David Cameron did NOT have a plan B in place (just in case the Brexit side won) has to be put down as a 7P problem.

7P The Seven P's - Proper, Prior, Planning, Prevents, Piss, Poor, Performance. In our profession, a plan that everyone dislikes for different reasons is a success. A plan everyone dislikes for the same reason is a failure.

Or from Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Ps_(military_adage)

The 7 Ps is a US Marine Corps & British Army adage for Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Other versions of the 7 Ps

Piss Poor Planning Promotes Piss Poor Performance

Over time, the phrase has also been modified to include the word 'practice' in order to better fit certain scenarios. For example:

Proper Planning and Practice Prevents Piss Poor Performance
(6Ps) Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Proper Planning, Preparation and Practice Prevents Poor Performance
Prior Planning, Preparation and Practice Prevents Poor Performance
Positive Pre-Planning, Preparation and Practice Prevents Poor Performance
Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Proper Planning and Practice Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
(5P's) Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance
(4P's) Poor Preparation Poor Performance

Other quotes that address planning contrasting crisis results variations are:

"If you fail to plan, then you plan to Fail." - John L. Beckley, Founder of The Economics Press, Inc. and author
"A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part." - SSgt Chad Sommers, USMC

JHolmesJr · July 22, 2016

This will prove all those naysayers who wanted to remain wrong, see things are on the up.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36864273

Yes....they are pulling out all the stops to create fear and try to force a second referendum or to renege on the voters decision.

brexiteer · July 22, 2016

I see no advantage for the EU to a hasty departure.

It is clear that faced with the reality the leaving leaders gradually abandon every campaign promise.

So we are moving slowly but surely towards the Norwegian model with exactly the same contribution, the same duties and also the same business benefits than others.

But without taking part in decisions.

May need time to convince Brexiters these realities. Its partners in UE are well aware. So there is a kind of role play between the accomplices responsible enabling she to save time.

The appointment of BJ Is there to calm the leaving supporters. But himself has already hinted that an identical status to Norway would be the least bad.

And I'll bet big here as the ultimate challenge for any discussions will to retain the UK's huge privelege managing the bulk of transactions at City.

When we understand the 'But without taking part in the decisions' as - without any control over the decisions, it is clear that the best deal Brexit can deliver is exactly the EU the Brexit campaign said we need to escape;

Brexit means Brexit, but apart from the assertion that a word means itself, there is little if any clear statement on what the political, social and trade aims of Brexit are - what the UK's relationship with the EU will be, and as you point out, a waiting game is being played.

Meanwhile the leaders of the two most powerful nations in the EU (Germany and France) have both stated that the UK shall not be given tariff free access to the EU without accepting the EU regulations on the free movement of people.

This is where the crunch is going to come when the tariff free access meets free movement of labour. If the EU puts up tariff barriers then we would do the same and then stop the free movement of labour seems the logical outcome. I am sure the HMG will have also noticed that this where the crunch is going to come and will have a look at what agreements have been made with other trading nations regarding tariffs and labour movements.

And then the French decide they're not going to let us maintain a border crossing on their territory at Calais, and we end up with the refugee camps in Dover instead.

Because that's what the voters wanted, right?

Suck it up biker-boy.

Hollande has dispelled another of your wet dreams

Khun Han · July 22, 2016

^ Theresa May and Francois Hollande agree that border controls in Calais will stay despite Brexit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/21/theresa-may-meets-francois-hollande-french-president-demands-pm/

theoldgit · July 22, 2016

This will prove all those naysayers who wanted to remain wrong, see things are on the up.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36864273

Yes....they are pulling out all the stops to create fear and try to force a second referendum or to renege on the voters decision.

Indeed, they should stop publishing actual data and stick to the views of the journalists who speak for either side of the debate.

GuestHouse · July 22, 2016

^ Theresa May and Francois Hollande agree that border controls in Calais will stay despite Brexit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/21/theresa-may-meets-francois-hollande-french-president-demands-pm/

Not much of a commitment if Hollande doesn't 'stay'.

Khun Han · July 22, 2016

^ Theresa May and Francois Hollande agree that border controls in Calais will stay despite Brexit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/21/theresa-may-meets-francois-hollande-french-president-demands-pm/

Not much of a commitment if Hollande doesn't 'stay'.

Amd the same can be said for any agreement between politicians anywhere in the world. So your point is?

GuestHouse · July 22, 2016

^ Theresa May and Francois Hollande agree that border controls in Calais will stay despite Brexit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/21/theresa-may-meets-francois-hollande-french-president-demands-pm/

Not much of a commitment if Hollande doesn't 'stay'.
Amd the same can be said for any agreement between politicians anywhere in the world. So your point is?

It was you that presented the agreement not me, I simply pointed out it cannot be relied upon.

I need make no point since it is clear you agree with me.

Jip99 · July 22, 2016

^ Theresa May and Francois Hollande agree that border controls in Calais will stay despite Brexit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/21/theresa-may-meets-francois-hollande-french-president-demands-pm/

Not much of a commitment if Hollande doesn't 'stay'.

I will wager that your half empty glass has a hole in the bottom - and as long as you have a hole in yours, Brexit will continue to mean Brexit and a commitment is a commitment.

(even from the French)

SoiBiker · July 22, 2016

Interesting how many brexit voters are so sure that a politicians promise is a sure thing.

What do you think we should spend that £350 million on then?

Eclipse · July 22, 2016

Interesting how many brexit voters are so sure that a politicians promise is a sure thing.

What do you think we should spend that £350 million on then?

The Health Service of course.

We were promised.

Surely they would not lie.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Eclipse

Khun Han · July 22, 2016

Interesting how many brexit voters are so sure that a politicians promise is a sure thing.

What do you think we should spend that £350 million on then?

In a democracy, politicians are held to account at election time. I didn't expect to be impressed by Theresa May ( I wasn't when she was Home Secretary), but she's hardly put a foot wrong so far. And it's become obvious from her speeches and exchanges that she's acutely aware of and respectful toward the democratic wishes of the electorate.

NCFC · July 22, 2016

OMG

, Have you never been informed of a democratic Vote .

GBP @ 45 bht , this is the new Norm . Stand up and be counted man .

by allowing morons to vote on something they know nothing about has made a mockery of democracy.
and cameron by allowing this to happen should be regarded as the biggest terrorist the world has ever known

The people who voted out did not do so because of finance. They did so because of the effects of immigration.

I voted to regain sovereignty. I am extremely happy. Sovereignty has been returned to the people.

Khun Han · July 22, 2016

^ Theresa May and Francois Hollande agree that border controls in Calais will stay despite Brexit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/21/theresa-may-meets-francois-hollande-french-president-demands-pm/

Not much of a commitment if Hollande doesn't 'stay'.
Amd the same can be said for any agreement between politicians anywhere in the world. So your point is?

It was you that presented the agreement not me, I simply pointed out it cannot be relied upon.

I need make no point since it is clear you agree with me.

You are attempting to disparage a policy agreement with the non-argument that 'things might change'. Until there is an indication that they might, the situation is what it is. Other than having contingency plans for change, there is no current concern.

JHolmesJr · July 22, 2016

This will prove all those naysayers who wanted to remain wrong, see things are on the up.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36864273

Yes....they are pulling out all the stops to create fear and try to force a second referendum or to renege on the voters decision.
Indeed, they should stop publishing actual data and stick to the views of the journalists who speak for either side of the debate.

I have not seen any financial crash similar to 2008….no reports on tv suggesting anything seriously amiss…it is quite strange to expect a change this profound to have no ripples whatsoever.

Swings and roundabouts.

NCFC · July 22, 2016

And who decided what "ill informed" means?

However well informed or not you are is not the issue, everyone on the electoral roll has the option to vote, how they make their mind up is up to them, you or I might try an influence them but then its up to the individual to weigh things up for themselves and cast their vote or not.

The Court case will not be won by the bad losers, the implications for the future do bear thinking about.

Ill informed is not a decision, though it was definite decision by the leaders of the Brexit campaign to misinform, lie and use racism and xenophobia in their campaign.
They, the Brexit leaders have all fled the scene and their lies are tunmling one after another.

PM May is showing no eagerness to sign Article 50 and has cunningly put an idiot (former Brexit leader and proven liar) in charge of dealing with the 'international community' while putting her rival (and Brexiteer) in charge of explaining Brexit to the UK's most powerful lobby group, the UK's farmers.

If I wee a Brexiteer I might start to worry that the non legally binding referrendum result is going to lead nowhere.

Which is precisely why the Brexit leaders have fled the scene.

The most you can hope for is a right wing onslaught on worker's rights, welfare and the NHS.

Victory?!

Last time I looked the leading Brexiteer is Foreign Secretary. Hardly fleeing when you are centre of government. Oh and we have a new department for Brexit and trade negotiations, if you missed the news. The PM has just returned from France where she put the frog in his place by telling him that the UK decides alone when Art 50 gets triggered. Angela, more pragmatic, agreed with the UK approach.

Countries are queuing up to form trade agreements with UK, even the US sec of state said this will happen quickly.

Some short term uncertainties in the market are understandable but we are a free sovereign nation again and we will trade our way to a brighter, wealthier future while the EU will still be floundering around wondering how to cope with jihadists and the muslim deluge.

SoiBiker · July 22, 2016

EU countries are certainly not queuing up to sign trade agreements with the UK, as it's illegal for them to do so under EU law - despite this forming David Davis's main plan for post-brexit UK.

Caps · July 22, 2016

EU countries are certainly not queuing up to sign trade agreements with the UK, as it's illegal for them to do so under EU law - despite this forming David Davis's main plan for post-brexit UK.

and herein lies one of the problems of being in the EU, How can any external entity be able to tell a country who they can or can not trade with, its b011ocks

Khun Han · July 22, 2016

EU countries are certainly not queuing up to sign trade agreements with the UK, as it's illegal for them to do so under EU law - despite this forming David Davis's main plan for post-brexit UK.

Yes, I'm sure Germany has no contingency plans for selling us cars, engineering products, etc when we exit the EU .

Edited July 22, 2016 by Khun Han

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