Brit dies in Bangkok hospital after being stranded for 2 month while family struggled to pay bill

[gemguy]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

In this case...... the price is now negotiable.

[cumgranosalum]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

Common human decency will not help the Thai health service when it goes belly up. The hospital displayed [plenty of common human decency. They treated the woman ! They did not withhold treatment.

As for the sister saying it has cost more because the 'Doctors kept her alive longer', that is simply ludicrous. It is a Doctors job to keep you alive. I can just imagine the uproar in the UK media let alone on here, if the Thai Doctors had refused treatment and as a result the woman died. The same family that has made the comments above would be suing. It is very sad and made worse by the response from the family. The Thai hospital treated the woman and wanted paying for the services they provide. Thais pay for it so why not anyone else. I can't even believe we are having this discussion on Thai visa. People actually blaming the British Embassy. This was ENTIRELY the fault of the woman concerned, who, despite being fully aware of her pre-existing medical conditions elected to travel 7000 miles without any form of medical insurance. Simple !!

" They treated the woman ! They did not withhold treatment." Excuse me? What is your basis for that comment?......the main problem I have with it is that the woman died.

[Oxx]

I do not understand. Thailand now has compulsory travel insurance. It was brought in some time ago. The price is automatically added to your air ticket. I read a thread detailing how to make a claim on it. The hospitals never tell you about it but there is an office you can go to to claim. Personally I believe the private hospitals charge you and then, without you knowing, claim in the government insurance. I have no proof on this but living in Thailand for 12 years makes me believe it is so.

It was raised as a possibility a couple of years or so ago. However, it was never implemented. There's no such insurance.

[bkkcanuck8]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

Common human decency will not help the Thai health service when it goes belly up. The hospital displayed [plenty of common human decency. They treated the woman ! They did not withhold treatment.

As for the sister saying it has cost more because the 'Doctors kept her alive longer', that is simply ludicrous. It is a Doctors job to keep you alive. I can just imagine the uproar in the UK media let alone on here, if the Thai Doctors had refused treatment and as a result the woman died. The same family that has made the comments above would be suing. It is very sad and made worse by the response from the family. The Thai hospital treated the woman and wanted paying for the services they provide. Thais pay for it so why not anyone else. I can't even believe we are having this discussion on Thai visa. People actually blaming the British Embassy. This was ENTIRELY the fault of the woman concerned, who, despite being fully aware of her pre-existing medical conditions elected to travel 7000 miles without any form of medical insurance. Simple !!

" They treated the woman ! They did not withhold treatment." Excuse me? What is your basis for that comment?......the main problem I have with it is that the woman died.

Then your problem is with god!

She was in a coma with no improvement for at least the last month.... and the odds of coming out of a non-induced coma is less than 50% -- with less than 10% fully recovering.... prolonged comas.... not good.

Comas are caused by trauma to the brain of some sort. Since she was walking along and then collapsed my guess is that the coma might have been brought on by a heart attack... but at this point we can only guess the originating cause -- what is the case is she was in a coma and generally the prognosis for a prolonged coma is not good at all. Based on those odds, I can only come to the conclusion that the likely entity to blame if any would be god. Either way leaping to the conclusion that the hospital was the cause of the woman death is actually quite libelous without any proof that they were.... and the result was a normal progression of her illness.

[Scouse123]

Guys,

I am going to let the subject rest from my point of view as I have said what I wish to say but I will leave it with these few things to ponder.

1. The Thais or Thai public or government coffers HAVE NOT lost anything. It was a private ' for profit ' hospital. If anyone loses money it will be the shareholders. As I have said, sympathy is extremely limited when many of you know the inflated charges, vast profits they make and unnecessary operations and treatments these hospitals have given to foreigners in distress in the past.

2. The corruption in these hospitals was so well known and widespread, the Junta had/has ordered an inquiry into their charges and billing procedures and stated it must improve, whether those are just more hollow words remains to be seen.

3. By the deliberate ' lack of mention ' . of insurance in all reports, it is safe to say she didn't have any. This would be considered ' feckless ' by any Embassy dealing with this problem.

4. Crowd funding and Go fund me sources of attracting help and assistance are or should be reserved for extraordinary unforeseen events, not for people, knowing they are unwell, to just ' toddle off 7,000 miles anyway ' This represents a ' devil may care ' attitude.

5.The boyfriend/ partner left on the pretext that his visa ( probably his 30 days on entry ) had expired. A partner, in my view, would have explored ways of staying in the country with the hospital who would have directed him to immigration who are very helpful in genuine circumstances. I do not accept he had to return home. It appears to me it was ' too much like hard work ' or they came underfunded.Various options could have been open to him, to stay with his lady if he really wanted to. I would have, as the song goes, begged, stole or borrowed to stay with mine. I wouldn't have stolen but I think you understand the meaning.

6. The next point is slightly more difficult to understand, as private hospitals do not as a rule allow bills like this to ' rack up ' without any form of guarantee which to me is very strange, indeed, they push for removal to a government hospital very quickly if funds are not forthcoming.

7. It is not the duty of the Embassies around the world, for any nationality, to pay for the repatriation of their nationals in death or in life just because they do not have adequate health or emergency insurance.

8. I find it slightly disturbing doctors are now being blamed by the family for giving or attempting life saving treatments when the lady had an absence of loved ones or family members in the country to make those decisions on her behalf.

9.I am perplexed as to why some people here think TV members should dive in their pockets and wallets to send money to people we do not know the background story about and a cause that we know no details about and a saga that raises more questions than answers.This is not heartlessness or lack of compassion, it is common sense. If many of us were to do this for every time we see a sad story, we would be in the poor house.

10. I am genuinely sorry for the loss of a life, I do feel it is a sad ending for the lady,. Lessons should be learned from this sad story, a life has been lost. RIP to the poor lady.

[billd766]

I wonder if the hospital will hang onto the body until the bill is paid? At least bringing the ashes home will be cheaper than an air ambulance.

Foot Note:In Thailand only relatives can move/touch the dead person. RIP

Another footnote.

When my MIL died last November my wife called the Pu Yai Ban and he sent 4 guys down with a temporary coffin to get my MIL out of the house, into the coffin and around to the wat, so please excuse me if I don't believe you, but I am speaking from experience of rural Thailand.

I weigh over 100 kg and if I die upstairs in the house do you think that my wife and 12 year old son will be the only persons to get my body downstairs and into a coffin? After all they are my only relatives here unless she waits until some of her family come up from BKK and that shouldn't be much longer than 12 to 24 hours, especially if they are at work.

You dont have neighbors ?We have too many living in a Gated Moobaan. Most i only know to say hello to ,but still they would help in an emergency .

I was responding to aussieandrew at post#256.

Actually we do have neighbours but on one side there are only 2 women and 2 children but no men, on the other side there is a resort and the owner is older and less fit than I am so he could not help. We do however have friends in the village who come to help out and are usually there in an emergency like the MIL dying.

I was the one who found her about 9am on a Sunday morning as my wife and son were just going on a walk to the waterfall about 20 km away. I had no idea what to do so I told one of the ladies from next door who covered MIL up while I got onto my wife who came back home courtesy of the National Park at Klong Nam Lai who brought her home in a pickup. The other lady from next door was very helpful in giving advice over the phone, but she was in BKK at the time and came back up next day to help out.

My wife called the family in BKK, Korat and Phitsanulok and they came up over the next 2 days. Some stayed with us, some with our neighbour and some at the temple. MIL was there from Sunday to Thursday and cremated on Friday. My wife and our friends did all the catering, there was no loud music, karaoke or dancing girls, and people bought their own drinks though we supplied the family.

The family all chipped in towards the costs and a good but sad time was had by all. MIL would have liked it.

[Balance]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

It appears that except for countries of the former empire, the NHS offers no coverage for emergencies. So, tourists travel at their risk unless they have private insurance. I bought travel insurance and had an accident while I was diving in the Yucatan. I was not in the water, but getting back on the boat in high swell conditions. First, SCUBA diving was not covered though finding this required a 3x magnifying glass. Then the company decided that it was a SCUBA accident since I was on a dive boat. Most of these policies do not cover pre-existing conditions. Bottom line from where I sit they are scams.

That brings us to the <deleted> going on here about a Thail policy for tourists while they are in country. Every time the hospitals complain about non payment, the conversation and meetings start over. With some pretty simple analysis of the health services provided to tourists and the cost of the services divided into the total number of tourists you get an approximation of the cost tourist to cover all of the tourists coming into the country. I think the number would be very small.

[LukKrueng]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

The NHS primarily treats sick people - and then gives them the bill...from time to time they don't pay, but at least they are alive. Many tourists in Britain owe their lives to the NHS.

It doesn't say anywhere in the OP nor in the full story that she wasn't treated. She was on life support, and it say "But sadly nothing could be done to save Kathryn". Although the British hospitals might be better equipped (I doubt that, as BKK hospital is well equipped) and might have been able to save her, but even if the hospital would have released her to be transferred back home, they'd still have to come up with the money for med-evac and I guess that would cost about the same as the hospital bill if not more.

So basically, it was an unfortunate and very sad incident and I can't see any point in looking for anyone to blame for it.

[Bluespunk]

Got a link?

Happy to donate.

PM it to me if not allowed to put on forum.

The news story has a link at the end of it.

The biggest donations are from friends and family and only get up to a few hundred quid....

Maybe that's all they can afford.

Maybe, but more than likely it was a calculated donation - how do I give some without looking too cheap.

Not that I necessarily think that paying to get a dead body back is worth it... what are they going to do ship it back (probably 7,000 to 10,000 quid).... incinerate and can the body... then ship it back.... it is like buying a car then putting it in a compressor to squish it.... I would probably just tell them to strip the bones and use the full set for teaching.... full sets of real bones are not cheap. I am just not that sentimental when it comes to dead bodies (mine or others).

The fact is they are trying to help. In effect showing common human decency.

[Bluespunk]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

Oh. You've personally contributed how much then?

Pfffft. People shouting "decency". What a bad joke. What hypocrites.

PM me your e mail and I'll send you the receipt on the condition you agree to donate an equal or greater amount.

[bkkcanuck8]

Maybe, but more than likely it was a calculated donation - how do I give some without looking too cheap.

Not that I necessarily think that paying to get a dead body back is worth it... what are they going to do ship it back (probably 7,000 to 10,000 quid).... incinerate and can the body... then ship it back.... it is like buying a car then putting it in a compressor to squish it.... I would probably just tell them to strip the bones and use the full set for teaching.... full sets of real bones are not cheap. I am just not that sentimental when it comes to dead bodies (mine or others).

The fact is they are trying to help. In effect showing common human decency.

I am more cynical than that. When the donations at most are a couple hundred quid on something this dire to a family member... it usually is just paying enough not to look bad.... more about buying face.

[indyuk]

The principle of Bangkok Pattaya Hospital in this case is the same as currently practiced by Chon Buri General Government Hospital in every respect except the exaltation day rate of 27,600 Baht per day.

[Bluespunk]

What happens when "common human decency" conflicts with "common sense and sheer practicality" ?

No country can (or should) have to pay the medical bills for every visitor who becomes sick on holiday.

They don't do it in Europe, why should a relatively poor country like Thailand have to?

Why?

Common human decency.

I know you can read, I also know that despite many posts to the contrary Most Thai hospitals and Thai Doctors are very good and on average Thai's do in fact have more common human decency than is found in many other countries.

But you have not addressed the practicalities and costs of it.

I don't think any country offers unlimited free medical aid to tourists, so to keep repeating the same common decency mantra is only delusional. Common decency is based on common practice and it is not common practice to give free medical aid to visitors because it is not common decency to the general population to do so.

However, I do think that Thailand (possibly every country) could set-up a government sponsored scheme where all visitors pay a small amount to obtain a reasonable amount of basic medical insurance cover on entering the country.

That would be pretty decent, but unfortunately unless it was very limited it would soon be grossly abused, as are most medical insurance schemes. The country would soon be writhing with thousands of pseudo "whiplash" victims.

Nonetheless, in this case it is clear there is no con being tried out. It is an unfortunate incident, the family can't help what happened. Common human decency says help them.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

Maybe, but more than likely it was a calculated donation - how do I give some without looking too cheap.

Not that I necessarily think that paying to get a dead body back is worth it... what are they going to do ship it back (probably 7,000 to 10,000 quid).... incinerate and can the body... then ship it back.... it is like buying a car then putting it in a compressor to squish it.... I would probably just tell them to strip the bones and use the full set for teaching.... full sets of real bones are not cheap. I am just not that sentimental when it comes to dead bodies (mine or others).

The fact is they are trying to help. In effect showing common human decency.

I am more cynical than that. When the donations at most are a couple hundred quid on something this dire to a family member... it usually is just paying enough not to look bad.... more about buying face.

Then I am sorry to hear that. People give what they can. Not all can afford to be what ''face'' would consider generous.

[Bluespunk]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

Common human decency will not help the Thai health service when it goes belly up. The hospital displayed [plenty of common human decency. They treated the woman ! They did not withhold treatment.

As for the sister saying it has cost more because the 'Doctors kept her alive longer', that is simply ludicrous. It is a Doctors job to keep you alive. I can just imagine the uproar in the UK media let alone on here, if the Thai Doctors had refused treatment and as a result the woman died. The same family that has made the comments above would be suing. It is very sad and made worse by the response from the family. The Thai hospital treated the woman and wanted paying for the services they provide. Thais pay for it so why not anyone else. I can't even believe we are having this discussion on Thai visa. People actually blaming the British Embassy. This was ENTIRELY the fault of the woman concerned, who, despite being fully aware of her pre-existing medical conditions elected to travel 7000 miles without any form of medical insurance. Simple !!

Where did I level any criticism at the treatment this woman received. Please be specific.

[Chapelroad]

I do not understand. Thailand now has compulsory travel insurance. It was brought in some time ago. The price is automatically added to your air ticket. I read a thread detailing how to make a claim on it. The hospitals never tell you about it but there is an office you can go to to claim. Personally I believe the private hospitals charge you and then, without you knowing, claim in the government insurance. I have no proof on this but living in Thailand for 12 years makes me believe it is so.

It was raised as a possibility a couple of years or so ago. However, it was never implemented. There's no such insurance.

I had it for 12 months.

I still have the card, and use it for I.D. if I ever have to go to a Government hospital.

[MiKT]

What happens when "common human decency" conflicts with "common sense and sheer practicality" ?

No country can (or should) have to pay the medical bills for every visitor who becomes sick on holiday.

They don't do it in Europe, why should a relatively poor country like Thailand have to?

Why?

Common human decency.

I know you can read, I also know that despite many posts to the contrary Most Thai hospitals and Thai Doctors are very good and on average Thai's do in fact have more common human decency than is found in many other countries.

But you have not addressed the practicalities and costs of it.

I don't think any country offers unlimited free medical aid to tourists, so to keep repeating the same common decency mantra is only delusional. Common decency is based on common practice and it is not common practice to give free medical aid to visitors because it is not common decency to the general population to do so.

However, I do think that Thailand (possibly every country) could set-up a government sponsored scheme where all visitors pay a small amount to obtain a reasonable amount of basic medical insurance cover on entering the country.

That would be pretty decent, but unfortunately unless it was very limited it would soon be grossly abused, as are most medical insurance schemes. The country would soon be writhing with thousands of pseudo "whiplash" victims.

Nonetheless, in this case it is clear there is no con being tried out. It is an unfortunate incident, the family can't help what happened. Common human decency says help them.

Now you are mixing common human decency to help the family, possibly by TV members which is optional (but being presented by you in an indefensible blackmailing way) and by the hospital which as a mater of principal is neither practical nor decent to the majority of Thai's.

You are looking to eat your cake.

[Oxx]

I do not understand. Thailand now has compulsory travel insurance. It was brought in some time ago. The price is automatically added to your air ticket. I read a thread detailing how to make a claim on it. The hospitals never tell you about it but there is an office you can go to to claim. Personally I believe the private hospitals charge you and then, without you knowing, claim in the government insurance. I have no proof on this but living in Thailand for 12 years makes me believe it is so.

It was raised as a possibility a couple of years or so ago. However, it was never implemented. There's no such insurance.

I had it for 12 months.

I still have the card, and use it for I.D. if I ever have to go to a Government hospital.

Not possible. The scheme never came anywhere close to being implemented. The card must be something else, perhaps one of the cards that were intended for migrant workers from neighbouring countries that were erroneously issued to some Occidentals.

[Chapelroad]

I do not understand. Thailand now has compulsory travel insurance. It was brought in some time ago. The price is automatically added to your air ticket. I read a thread detailing how to make a claim on it. The hospitals never tell you about it but there is an office you can go to to claim. Personally I believe the private hospitals charge you and then, without you knowing, claim in the government insurance. I have no proof on this but living in Thailand for 12 years makes me believe it is so.

It was raised as a possibility a couple of years or so ago. However, it was never implemented. There's no such insurance.

I had it for 12 months.

I still have the card, and use it for I.D. if I ever have to go to a Government hospital.

Not possible. The scheme never came anywhere close to being implemented. The card must be something else, perhaps one of the cards that were intended for migrant workers from neighbouring countries that were erroneously issued to some Occidentals.

Yes, you are correct, but I have the card in front of me now, and it clearly states 'Health Card for Foreigner'.

[Bluespunk]

I know you can read, I also know that despite many posts to the contrary Most Thai hospitals and Thai Doctors are very good and on average Thai's do in fact have more common human decency than is found in many other countries.

But you have not addressed the practicalities and costs of it.

I don't think any country offers unlimited free medical aid to tourists, so to keep repeating the same common decency mantra is only delusional. Common decency is based on common practice and it is not common practice to give free medical aid to visitors because it is not common decency to the general population to do so.

However, I do think that Thailand (possibly every country) could set-up a government sponsored scheme where all visitors pay a small amount to obtain a reasonable amount of basic medical insurance cover on entering the country.

That would be pretty decent, but unfortunately unless it was very limited it would soon be grossly abused, as are most medical insurance schemes. The country would soon be writhing with thousands of pseudo "whiplash" victims.

Nonetheless, in this case it is clear there is no con being tried out. It is an unfortunate incident, the family can't help what happened. Common human decency says help them.

Now you are mixing common human decency to help the family, possibly by TV members which is optional (but being presented by you in an indefensible blackmailing way) and by the hospital which as a mater of principal is neither practical nor decent to the majority of Thai's.

You are looking to eat your cake.

I don't eat cake.

If however you are saying that to help this family whether as a private individual or as a state institution are different things, then I disagree with you. I don't see any difference between the two.

I am not blackmailing anyone [emotionally or otherwise] and don't see where that BS comes from. As for helping the family being indecent...more BS.

Someone asked why the hospital should help this family and I gave an answer, you don't like that answer? Well that's your problem, not mine.

The point is this is an unfortunate incident and common human decency says to help the family involved.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Bluespunk

[mrfaroukh]

It was very unfortunate. But there is something called travel insurance that everyone should have when travelling. It is also a shame for British government for not to take care of their citizen in such an emergency. They could loan the money to them.

[skildpadden]

I weill repeat most what I said in the first story on this lady:

This might sound cold but that the doctors not wanting to turn off is certainly within their right as the Thai law states they might be seen committing murder. Under all circumstances it will need a competent family member to come to Thailand to sign appropriate documents. It is not clear whether any of the familiy members has been out here to talk with the hospital. The partner had to fly back as the visa ran out - why didn't any other family member then fly out here - also to discus end of life possibilities and to move to a cheaper facility?

I am sorry but this is another one travelling without adequate insurance. If you are worried about your health, then consider to stay inside Europe instead and use the EU blue card (well, at least until Brexit takes effect).

[Bangkokazy]

R.I.P

[dageurreotype]

Nonetheless, in this case it is clear there is no con being tried out. It is an unfortunate incident, the family can't help what happened. Common human decency says help them.

'Common human decency' would dictate any money be better spent on one of myriad better causes here than sending back the meat suit of someone you've never met to a family who are too stupid to understand a quick burn up in the local wat and EMS back to Blighty, if they're that bothered. Pfft. Mawkish much?

[evadgib]

It was very unfortunate. But there is something called travel insurance that everyone should have when travelling. It is also a shame for British government for not to take care of their citizen in such an emergency. They could loan the money to them.

Why isn't your Embassy doing it?

[bkkcanuck8]

It was very unfortunate. But there is something called travel insurance that everyone should have when travelling. It is also a shame for British government for not to take care of their citizen in such an emergency. They could loan the money to them.

Why isn't your Embassy doing it?

Probably because buying a dead body does not constitute an emergency....

Found this written up blurb in the Telegraph to be fairly good.

As children of "nanny" states, Western tourists often instinctively turn to their governments for help. And then the reality sets in. Consular representatives are often available via 24-hour helplines and in 2013, UK diplomats processed 45,745 cases of people in need of assistance worldwide, according to Foreign and Commonwealth Office statistics obtained via a Freedom of Information request. However, even at the best of times, the assistance governments can offer is limited.

The parameters of the assistance available are outlined on each countrys embassy website and are colloquially known as the "consular services charter" for that nation. In brief, embassies will register births, deaths and marriages; hand out lists of lawyers, doctors, funeral homes and interpreters; process visas, replace passports, dispense limited advice and do little of anything more.

Traveling internationally -- especially on tourism -- is a luxury and outside the jurisdiction of your country. Governments should not be in the habit of subsidizing those that travel internationally. If you cannot afford the risk, vacation in your home "nanny" state.

Edited July 21, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[bkkcanuck8]

It was very unfortunate. But there is something called travel insurance that everyone should have when travelling. It is also a shame for British government for not to take care of their citizen in such an emergency. They could loan the money to them.

Or another spin on this is .... you want the UK government (and taxpayers who could only dream of a vacation in a foreign country) to "loan" the money to who? Maybe the oldest so that when they die the liability dies with them? The same family that can apparently only afford 300 quid on the fundraising site?

So you now have the generous nanny state lending 36,000 quid to get the body released by paying the medical bills... then what? Remember none of the family members have bothered coming to sort out potentially moving the person to a more affordable hospital or to support their relative while they were here in a coma...... What are they going to do with the body? Ship it back to the UK.... and have the UK government loan then another 10,000 quid.

Then of course you have the body back in the UK now .... since you did not come and cremate and take care of that stuff in Thailand... I am guessing they want the person buried in a casket.... maybe loan them another 7,000+ quid for the casket.... then of course more for the plot of land to bury them in....

Then of course if family members could afford a mere 300 quid at most by the "richest" of them.... how would they be expected to pay back the loan of what is now adding up to close to 60,000 quid.

Or you can just leave the body with the hospital and whoever signed the contract with the hospital ... just never travel to Thailand... or internationally for that matter because you cannot afford to be that generous with more irresponsible travelers.

BTW, it has been another 24 hours since I last checked the fundraising and not a single additional quid has been given.... lots of people seem to be happy having someone else be compassionate etc. but when it comes to reaching into your own pockets -- the hypocrisy is staggering.

Edited July 21, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[Deepinthailand]

R.I.P. sad loss for her family.

Another case of someone coming to Thailand without insurance.

Crazy for anyone not to have adequate cover.

As already stated do not blame Thailand or the hospital

As already mentioned, some people can't get cover, or will not be covered for existing problems. I don't know if that is the case with this lady. But it's wrong to presume full cover is easily available for everyone.

When going on holiday it is your responsibility to ensure you are covered for every eventually

If you know you have a pre existing condition you declare it cost a bit more to cover pretty existing but it's worth doing. If you go on holiday with no cover tough tities your fault your problem. Not the country you are on holiday in not the British Government via an Embassy (I would expect them to vs it and keep next of kin informed though) Sad outcome for this lady bit she could have avoided it and all the heartache she inflicted on loved ones.

[MiKT]

I know you can read, I also know that despite many posts to the contrary Most Thai hospitals and Thai Doctors are very good and on average Thai's do in fact have more common human decency than is found in many other countries.

But you have not addressed the practicalities and costs of it.

I don't think any country offers unlimited free medical aid to tourists, so to keep repeating the same common decency mantra is only delusional. Common decency is based on common practice and it is not common practice to give free medical aid to visitors because it is not common decency to the general population to do so.

However, I do think that Thailand (possibly every country) could set-up a government sponsored scheme where all visitors pay a small amount to obtain a reasonable amount of basic medical insurance cover on entering the country.

That would be pretty decent, but unfortunately unless it was very limited it would soon be grossly abused, as are most medical insurance schemes. The country would soon be writhing with thousands of pseudo "whiplash" victims.

Nonetheless, in this case it is clear there is no con being tried out. It is an unfortunate incident, the family can't help what happened. Common human decency says help them.

Now you are mixing common human decency to help the family, possibly by TV members which is optional (but being presented by you in an indefensible blackmailing way) and by the hospital which as a mater of principal is neither practical nor decent to the majority of Thai's.

You are looking to eat your cake.

I don't eat cake.

If however you are saying that to help this family whether as a private individual or as a state institution are different things, then I disagree with you. I don't see any difference between the two.

I am not blackmailing anyone [emotionally or otherwise] and don't see where that BS comes from. As for helping the family being indecent...more BS.

Someone asked why the hospital should help this family and I gave an answer, you don't like that answer? Well that's your problem, not mine.

The point is this is an unfortunate incident and common human decency says to help the family involved.

I would have thought that you at least would know the considerable difference between "not decent" and "indecent".

I have over the years helped many people in many ways, including paying their medical bills, but it IS almost indecent to suggest that TV readers or Thai hospitals lack human decency because they elect not to, or can't help this particular family.

Indeed, most hospitals are not charities and to expect them to bear the medical costs of every visitor to Thailand who gets sick or has an accident is patently ridiculous. (Unless the government introduces compulsory medical insurance for all visitors as I suggested earlier).

I have no doubt that much as they would appreciate help, this family would actually agree with me that this is not practical for any country. It certainly does not happen in the UK as a matter of principle.

We can feel for their loss; and some of us would like to help all the sick and all accident victims if we could, but that does not mean that we or the Thai (or UK) public should be held responsible for their hospital bills, neither morally nor practically. If this was the case they would have soon raised the money they need to pay the hospital bills.

The way you have expressed your answer to the question as to why this family should be helped is indeed emotional blackmail, even if you can't "see" that. But hearing it so stated is obviously starting to make you squirm since you have resorted to invective and clearly don't like your emotional blackmail being returned to you.

[Bluespunk]

Now you are mixing common human decency to help the family, possibly by TV members which is optional (but being presented by you in an indefensible blackmailing way) and by the hospital which as a mater of principal is neither practical nor decent to the majority of Thai's.

You are looking to eat your cake.

I don't eat cake.

If however you are saying that to help this family whether as a private individual or as a state institution are different things, then I disagree with you. I don't see any difference between the two.

I am not blackmailing anyone [emotionally or otherwise] and don't see where that BS comes from. As for helping the family being indecent...more BS.

Someone asked why the hospital should help this family and I gave an answer, you don't like that answer? Well that's your problem, not mine.

The point is this is an unfortunate incident and common human decency says to help the family involved.

I would have thought that you at least would know the considerable difference between "not decent" and "indecent".

I have over the years helped many people in many ways, including paying their medical bills, but it IS almost indecent to suggest that TV readers or Thai hospitals lack human decency because they elect not to, or can't help this particular family.

Indeed, most hospitals are not charities and to expect them to bear the medical costs of every visitor to Thailand who gets sick or has an accident is patently ridiculous. (Unless the government introduces compulsory medical insurance for all visitors as I suggested earlier).

I have no doubt that much as they would appreciate help, this family would actually agree with me that this is not practical for any country. It certainly does not happen in the UK as a matter of principle.

We can feel for their loss; and some of us would like to help all the sick and all accident victims if we could, but that does not mean that we or the Thai (or UK) public should be held responsible for their hospital bills, neither morally nor practically. If this was the case they would have soon raised the money they need to pay the hospital bills.

The way you have expressed your answer to the question as to why this family should be helped is indeed emotional blackmail, even if you can't "see" that. But hearing it so stated is obviously starting to make you squirm since you have resorted to invective and clearly don't like your emotional blackmail being returned to you.

I never said it was indecent not to help the family. I said human decency suggests we should help them.

There is no emotional blackmail by me. I would suggest you examine your own conscience if you are feeling this.

I never said the Thai hospital or anyone else is responsible for this families plight and it is wrong for you to say i have.

I wish you would stop implying or stating things I have said that I have not.

You want to see indecent...read post 294. That is a perfect example of how low and indecent posters can get.