200 Bhat ATM Fee ?

[wooloomooloo]

Use a wire transfer service, I use Xendpay or wirepay.

Your pay a minimal fee compared to backs and SWIFT.

And it can be charged to your debit card so no credit card fees.

Suspect you will find such a service will also use an exchange rate to make up the difference.

Not so fast. I had to have a gander at Nick ZepTepi's recommendation of Xendpay and it's actually more competitive than my current provider.

Today's Bangkok Bank f/x rate is 45.62 and Xendpay @ 45.66 and zero fee if you so choose to pay no fee under their 'Pay What You Can' business model, so I just sent my first transfer through Xendpay and opted for the zero fee and why not? Thanks, Nick, for a very good find.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Use a wire transfer service, I use Xendpay or wirepay.

Your pay a minimal fee compared to backs and SWIFT.

And it can be charged to your debit card so no credit card fees.

Suspect you will find such a service will also use an exchange rate to make up the difference.

Not so fast. I had to have a gander at Nick ZepTepi's recommendation of Xendpay and it's actually more competitive than my current provider.

Today's Bangkok Bank f/x rate is 45.62 and Xendpay @ 45.66 and zero fee if you so choose to pay no fee under their 'Pay What You Can' business model, so I just sent my first transfer through Xendpay and opted for the zero fee and why not? Thanks, Nick, for a very good find.

You tightwad! You denied them a measly £1?! With customers like yourself, they'll be out of business in no time. Nice one.

[wump]

Also guess Bank of China is happy with the standard interchange fee earned to maintain, refill, profit, etc. But Thai banks need to heap-on another Bt200 of greed.

Unless they still really believe all that anti-capitalism crap in Mao's red book, I bet they now subscribe to Gordon Gecko's philosophy ("greed is good").

Ponder the Aeon example. No ATM fee, when for well over a year Thai banks were charging their 150 baht fee. I figured Aeon saw this as more ATM customers (certainly true, based on all the folks on this forum hiring a limo to drive across town to the nearest Aeon machine), thus actually earning more than driving off customers with a fee. Nope. I guess their business model showed the paltry reverse interchange fees were no match for joining the gang and charging ATM pull fees. Plus, didn't they (this from faulty memory) then lower the max draw amount to 15k baht -- thus requiring two ATM fees to obtain 30k baht? Gordon Gecko, you da man.

Of course, maybe the Thai Banking Association made Aeon an offer they couldn't refuse (like, you wanna continue doing business in Thailand?). Doubtful they could pull a similar with China. So, will remain interesting to see what happens (probably nothing, unless Bank of China ATM machines become much more prevalent than currently).

I don't think Bank of China is more important than Aeon. Aeon is the biggest retailer in all of Asia. Until now, only a few people knew about the Bank of China ATMs being fee free. I guess once word goes out and there is farang queues like in the past at the Aeon ATMs in Central Pattaya then they'll charge a fee too, pressure from the Thai banking cartel association or not.

By the way, the max amount for Aeon ATMS used to be 40,000 Baht and there were only 1,000s notes available.

[Pib]

That 40K max amount must have been way back...like at least 8 years back...or at a few select machines. I started using AEON ATMs starting 2008 in the Bangkok area and the max was 30K but then it shifted down to 20K when they implemented their B150 farang fee.

[siam2007]

And yet you keep coming back...maybe why it keeps going up. It's a one-percent charge on a 20k withdrawal (even less if you use an ATM that allows a 25k draw). It's seems reasonable to me.

It is NOT reasonable, Mr. Donald, as banks in other neighboring countries that see a lot of tourists such as Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia/Bali don't charge any fee at all.

as For Thailand: If you are lucky to hold a Mastercard and stay near one of the very rare BANK OF CHINA ATM's in Bangkok and one in Khonkaen, you can avoid fees altogether

Maybe consider living or vacationing in China...must be a Bank of China ATM on every corner.

typical stupid nonsense comment that can only originate from "a Donald"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Until now, only a few people knew about the Bank of China ATMs being fee free. I guess once word goes out and there is farang queues like in the past at the Aeon ATMs in Central Pattaya then they'll charge a fee too, pressure from the Thai banking cartel association or not.

Not going to be an issue in Pattaya or Phuket, at least for now, as there are no BofC ATMs in either of those cities.

[siam2007]

I can't believe what people

Complain about....less than

$6???? Get a life!!

Someone might suggest that your post complaining about people who are complaining about US$6 is even more pathetic.

They are complaining about US$6, but you are complaining about nothing. They are stuck using the ATM, but you aren't forced to peruse the thread and then complain about it. Ridiculous.

May I suggest that you may be the one who needs to get a life. They are minding their business, whereas you are sticking your nose in theirs.

it is adding up to around 150$ a year for me, and for that amount you can get a nice studio-apartment at any Bangkok suburb for one month.

So I suggest "little mary sunshine" should not only get a LIFE, but as well a BRAIN

[natway09]

Some of you people talk rubbish.

Malaysia, Indonesia & Singapore charge 200 Bht for an ATM withdrawl.

They even tell you that there will be a fee charged & would you like to continue ?

[siam2007]

That's kind of missing the point, if a person's income/funds are originating outside of Thailand --- as they typically do for most tourists and many expats as well, who receive pensions and other income from their home country.

You can have all the Thai bank accounts in the world, and many of us do. But if one's funds are originating outside of Thailand, you still have to get those non-Thai based funds into Thailand for local access in one way or another. Using Thai ATMs with one's home country bank cards is a typical way of accomplishing that, especially for those who don't feel very comfortable carrying around/traveling with large wads of cash.

So you feel it's incumbent on Thai banks to allow you to access their money transfer networks for free because you have elected to live in Thailand and maintain your banking relationships outside of Thailand. I don't understand this logic that I hear in all these "ATM fee" threads that regularly pop-up on T-V. The hundreds of millions or billions of bant that Thai banks have spent to set-up, maintain, and administer their ATM and other cash handling channels are supposed to be offered to people who don't maintain deposits at these banks for free...WTH!

What you don't seem to understand is that the banks are already getting paid... read about network fees on page #2.

Their surcharge is really only a ripoff and - just like DCC - any extra surcharge should have never been allowed by the credit card companies. They're getting out of hand all over the world (but in Thailand they are the worst).

As mentioned by other posters, even relatively richer countries don't feel the need for any ATM surcharges (I repeat again: ATM owners are already getting paid by VISA/MasterCard, the surcharge is an unjustified extra fee!). Why is that in your opinion? Do you think they are making a loss over there?

What's your stance on cartels in general? Do you think they are nothing to worry or complain about?

Well I think you still haven't really answered the question. So Thai banks are getting paid a network fee from the major credit card networks...what of it? Obviously they're allowed by these networks to to add on additional fees and have chosen to do so. These credit card networks don't build, maintain, and service bank ATM networks so why should they have any say on what bank can charge to use them? If they did, banks might just drop out of the networks and then where would you be? Sure it would be nice if they didn't but that's not the case; and what's our choice as consumers...it's to choose to use the service or not. Tbere are many ways to obtain local currency when traveling or living abroad and using bank ATMs is only one of them.

The banking practices and regulations of other countries have nothing to do with Thailand's so your comparison there is meaningless. Laws, regulations, and business practices differ in all manner of respects between countries and arguing they should be the same makes no sense.

I think it's pretty clear that I'm a free-market anti-cartel type of person. However, I'm also a lawyer (in a previous existence) and to my knowledge, there is no Somchai Antitrust Act in Thailand and that business competition law in general in under-developed in Thailand; so that many monopolistic and anti-competitive business practices that would be illegal in other countries are allowed here. It's another add-on cost to living/visiting "paradise" and if one doesn't want to pay it one is free to move along.

the next bunch of horse manure from "the Donald".

so you think it is right that foreigners pay for the maintenance of ATM's when 99.5% of the transactions are performed by Thais customers ?

wow, I hope you did not apply this kind of logic when you were a lawyer....

[natway09]

You cannot compare say the US with Thailand.

The US would have 200,000,000 ATM cards being used.

Thailand maybe 30% of population has an ATM card.

Thailand has put all these ATM's in as a service to the farang tourists.

Now, stop your moaning or don't use the service

[siam2007]

As for Thailand: If you are lucky to hold a Mastercard and stay near one of the very rare BANK OF CHINA ATM's in Bangkok and one in Khonkaen, you can avoid fees altogether.

Nobody really followed up on this post by Siam earlier in this thread, but I took particular, curious note of it a few days ago when he posted it (never having ever even thought of Bank of China's ATMs here in Thailand before).

So today, I was down in the Sathorn area and stopped by the Bank of China main branch on the ground floor of the office building there, at the corner of Sathorn and Narithiwas roads, directly opposite from the BRT's Sathorn bus station there. Went inside and the branch was closed on a Sunday morning as expected, but they had two regular BofC ATMs in the public area outside the branch, and right next-door to a Starbuck's Coffee counter there.

And sure enough, I was able to make a withdrawal with my U.S. MasterCard logo debit card, had no fee notice on the ATM screen, went home and checked my online banking -- no ATM fee there either, and a regular exchange rate of 34.93 baht to the dollar, exactly what the MasterCard network currency exchange website shows as their most recent rate as of Friday. It was also exactly the same exchange rate as I got on two POS purchases I made with the same MC debit card elsewhere this morning. So BofC's not doing any funny business with the exchange rate on their ATM transactions.

So, I can confirm that the Bank of China ATMs here are fee-free for cards that they accept. Siam mentioned only using MasterCards, and indeed the Bank of China ATMs only have the card symbols on them for MasterCard, Cirrus, Maestro and UnionPay, and not the VISA or PLUS network typically associated with VISA cards. Although, once back home, I checked and discovered that I do have a couple bank cards that are VISA logo on the front, but also carry the Cirrus logo on the back. So it's possible that VISA cards bearing the Cirrus logo on the reverse might also work.

Here's what the Bank of China ATMs look like (and like the Thai ones, they have an on-screen menu choice to see the display in English language):

Bank of China ATM-Sathorn.jpg

Here's the Bank of China (Thai) website listing their various branches, including 3 in BKK: Sathorn, Bangna, and Ratchada, along with Rayong, Khon Kaen, and Patumthani:

http://www.bankofchina.com/th/en/aboutus/ab3/

And, MUCH THANKS to Siam for passing along this great tip.

The only thing I didn't get a chance to check out today (because I was just doing an initial trial run to see how it worked) was to learn the maximum amount of baht that the Bank of China ATMs will handle per withdrawal (assuming one's card supports a higher daily limit). Perhaps someone following in my footsteps can try that, and post a follow-up here.

the limit is 30K, the ATM will tell you about this during the transaction process

[wump]

You cannot compare say the US with Thailand.

The US would have 200,000,000 ATM cards being used.

Thailand maybe 30% of population has an ATM card.

Thailand has put all these ATM's in as a service to the farang tourists.

Now, stop your moaning or don't use the service

This is pure nonsense. Go to any city in Isaan where there is next to no foreigners. Guess what? Every 7-Eleven and Family Mart comes with an ATM, just like in tourist areas!

[wump]

Some of you people talk rubbish.

Malaysia, Indonesia & Singapore charge 200 Bht for an ATM withdrawl.

They even tell you that there will be a fee charged & would you like to continue ?

Is this meant to be a joke? I never paid a fee in Malaysia and from the posts in this thread it seems Singapore is fee free as well. Don't remember paying a fee in Indonesia either.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You cannot compare say the US with Thailand.

The US would have 200,000,000 ATM cards being used.

Thailand maybe 30% of population has an ATM card.

Thailand has put all these ATM's in as a service to the farang tourists.

Now, stop your moaning or don't use the service

This is pure nonsense. Go to any city in Isaan where there is next to no foreigners. Guess what? Every 7-Eleven and Family Mart comes with an ATM, just like in tourist areas!

The Thai banks primarily are competing for THAI customers. That's the main reason for the large numbers of branches and ATMs here.

The presence of ATMs, and currency exchange booths, may be somewhat higher in tourist areas because of tourists and increased commercial developments like malls. But that's certainly not the reason across the whole country.

Those of us old enough to remember the introduction of ATMs to the world will recall that the banking industry introduced them as both a convenience to customers and supposedly as an efficiency / money-saving measure, since it's cheaper to run ATMs than hire and pays enough bank tellers to do all the same transactions.

Unfortunately, in Thailand at least, the local banking industry has turned that concept upside down for farangs, who get to pay far beyond the actual transactional/system costs to the Thai banks via the 200 baht ATM fee when it comes to using foreign bank cards here.

[JimGant]

it is adding up to around 150$ a year for me, and for that amount you can get a nice studio-apartment at any Bangkok suburb for one month.

So, no alternative method, as shown by tallguyjohn, to avoid the Thai ATM fee? Bad credit, or what? That your cheapest method to get cash here in Thailand equates to a tourist is unfortunate. Suggest, then, you lambast those alternative, more expensive methods, for getting your cash here -- something ironic about chewing on the system that is providing your cheapest means for getting cash.....

[gentlemanjackdarby]

You cannot compare say the US with Thailand.

The US would have 200,000,000 ATM cards being used.

Thailand maybe 30% of population has an ATM card.

Thailand has put all these ATM's in as a service to the farang tourists.

Now, stop your moaning or don't use the service

This is pure nonsense. Go to any city in Isaan where there is next to no foreigners. Guess what? Every 7-Eleven and Family Mart comes with an ATM, just like in tourist areas!

The Thai banks primarily are competing for THAI customers. That's the main reason for the large numbers of branches and ATMs here.

The presence of ATMs, and currency exchange booths, may be somewhat higher in tourist areas because of tourists and increased commercial developments like malls. But that's certainly not the reason across the whole country.

Those of us old enough to remember the introduction of ATMs to the world will recall that the banking industry introduced them as both a convenience to customers and supposedly as an efficiency / money-saving measure, since it's cheaper to run ATMs than hire and pays enough bank tellers to do all the same transactions.

Unfortunately, in Thailand at least, the local banking industry has turned that concept upside down for farangs, who get to pay far beyond the actual transactional/system costs to the Thai banks via the 200 baht ATM fee when it comes to using foreign bank cards here.

A reflection on how things have changed over the years:

In the late '70s, when I was 17 and had gotten my first real job that paid by check, I remember going to my bank's branch at the local mall (U.S. Great Lakes region) to cash my check and seeing the installation of an ATM machine.

The next time I went back, the ATM was up-and-running and all lit up - nearby was a sign that said the bank would ***PAY ME*** $0.50 each time I used it, up to a maximum of $5 per month.

Once I felt I could trust it, I thought it was great to be able to avoid the tellers and withdraw cash without even going inside the bank and even better to get paid for doing it - I never did trust it to make deposits, nor could I get my friends and family to trust it for anything.

Times change!

[stevenl]

Can people please stop calling it a farang fee? The number of non farang foreigners affected is far greater than farang.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Some of you people talk rubbish.

Malaysia, Indonesia & Singapore charge 200 Bht for an ATM withdrawl.

They even tell you that there will be a fee charged & would you like to continue ?

No...they don't. Just some banks might. Look to your card and bank.

[Pib]

Can people please stop calling it a farang fee? The number of non farang foreigners affected is far greater than farang.

The Bt200 baht fee is a farang card fee; but if you have a Thai card there is no fee or maybe up to a Bt20 (twenty) fee if withdrawing out of your province/region.

[Pib]

In the late '70s, when I was 17 and had gotten my first real job that paid by check, I remember going to my bank's branch at the local mall (U.S. Great Lakes region) to cash my check and seeing the installation of an ATM machine.

The next time I went back, the ATM was up-and-running and all lit up - nearby was a sign that said the bank would ***PAY ME*** $0.50 each time I used it, up to a maximum of $5 per month.

The banks used the drug dealers approach....get you hooked on it by offering free samples and/or low prices...then once they have you addicted they continue to raise the price of use. And they even convince some people the poor banks don't make any money from ATMs (like the interchange fee they earn) unless they charge an additional fee like the Bt200 farang card ATM Use Fee (pure greed). Banksters they are.

[stevenl]

Can people please stop calling it a farang fee? The number of non farang foreigners affected is far greater than farang.

The Bt200 baht fee is a farang card fee; but if you have a Thai card there is no fee or maybe up to a Bt20 (twenty) fee if withdrawing out of your province/region.

That does not make it a farang fee. As I said, The number of non farang foreigners affected is far greater than farang.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Folks are debating here about the actual meaning of "farang", and I understand the linguistic point being made.

But the real point is, the 200 baht withdrawal fee is charged by the Thai banks against MOST non-Thai bank cards of the VISA and MasterCard varieties.

[Pib]

Can people please stop calling it a farang fee? The number of non farang foreigners affected is far greater than farang.

The Bt200 baht fee is a farang card fee; but if you have a Thai card there is no fee or maybe up to a Bt20 (twenty) fee if withdrawing out of your province/region.

That does not make it a farang fee. As I said, The number of non farang foreigners affected is far greater than farang.

What is your definition of a farang? Some people consider farang to be any foreigner...others consider it to be Caucasian. I guessing you are using the later.

But for the definition in this thread I would think it's any card not issued by a Thai bank....a card issued by a foreign bank.

[rickudon]

Not so fast. I had to have a gander at Nick ZepTepi's recommendation of Xendpay and it's actually more competitive than my current provider.

Today's Bangkok Bank f/x rate is 45.62 and Xendpay @ 45.66 and zero fee if you so choose to pay no fee under their 'Pay What You Can' business model, so I just sent my first transfer through Xendpay and opted for the zero fee and why not? Thanks, Nick, for a very good find.

Ha, the hidden fee ..... mastercard would have given you 46.1 . If you use a no fee card, and a 20,000 baht withdrawal at Aeon, you would actually be about 10 baht better off even after the ATM fee ...... You have to look at ALL the costs. But it looks like Xendpay is reasonable.

[stevenl]

Can people please stop calling it a farang fee? The number of non farang foreigners affected is far greater than farang.

The Bt200 baht fee is a farang card fee; but if you have a Thai card there is no fee or maybe up to a Bt20 (twenty) fee if withdrawing out of your province/region.

That does not make it a farang fee. As I said, The number of non farang foreigners affected is far greater than farang.

What is your definition of a farang? Some people consider farang to be any foreigner...others consider it to be Caucasian. I guessing you are using the later.

But for the definition in this thread I would think it's any card not issued by a Thai bank....a card issued by a foreign bank.

Yes, some people have come up with their own definition of the word.

Don't want to get into an argument about definitions here, but if you mean 'foreigner', why not use that word in stead of one that can lead to confusion and is seen by some as discriminatory.

[wump]

Not so fast. I had to have a gander at Nick ZepTepi's recommendation of Xendpay and it's actually more competitive than my current provider.

Today's Bangkok Bank f/x rate is 45.62 and Xendpay @ 45.66 and zero fee if you so choose to pay no fee under their 'Pay What You Can' business model, so I just sent my first transfer through Xendpay and opted for the zero fee and why not? Thanks, Nick, for a very good find.

Ha, the hidden fee ..... mastercard would have given you 46.1 . If you use a no fee card, and a 20,000 baht withdrawal at Aeon, you would actually be about 10 baht better off even after the ATM fee ...... You have to look at ALL the costs. But it looks like Xendpay is reasonable.

At the moment the Xendpay rate for EUR is 38.39 while the MasterCard rate is 38.51. Xendpay would still be cheaper because of the ATM fee. Also, I guess the money goes straight into your Thai account so you don't have to worry about taking out cash and depositing it back into your account (which would come at a fee as well).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't know about Xendpay specifically. But normally, anytime you transfer funds from outside Thailand into a Thai bank account, the receiving Thai bank usually charges a commission on the incoming funds. Depending on what details you view for the transaction, that commission is not always clearly spelled out by the Thai bank.

Typically, the commission is 0.25% of the incoming amount, minimum 200 baht and maximum 500 baht. So in that kind of scenario, the minimum fee that someone would be paying would already be equal to the normal Thai ATM fee on a foreign card withdrawal. Of course, the international transfer fee becomes a smaller percentage fee as the amount of the incoming transfer gets larger, since such transfers don't have the same 25-30K baht limit as single ATM transactions.

I'd be curious to know how Xendpay transfers are getting handled in that regard, and whether those posting about the service here know how and where to look to see if their receiving bank has deducted its fee. Xendpay may be correct in stating the exchange rate they're giving the sender, but that doesn't necessarily address what the Thai bank does with the incoming funds upon their arrival.

Here's an example of BKK Bank's fee schedule for incoming international transfers:

[wump]

I guess Xendpay would employ the same system as Paypal so you receive the money for free. I don't think it would be an international transfer but rather a transfer from the Xendpay office in Thailand/SEA to a Thai account.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Not sure about that. But the Paypal international funds transfers you mention are hardly "free."

I don't know if the Thai banks do or don't charge a commission on incoming Paypal funds, since I never send funds into Thailand using Paypal.

But Paypal certainly charges a several percent commission as their fee for sending any funds from one country to another country..

[wump]

Yes, but what I meant is when withdrawing money from you Paypal account there is no fee from the bank when actually receiving them in your account.

Maybe one of the posters who used the service could post their experience? I will certainly try them when going to Thailand next time as I don't get refunds on the ATM fees anymore.