The Reasons?

[sparkle]

Hi all,

nobody will deny that it appears T makes things more difficult. But why?

What are the reasons?

This country has always been very welcoming to foreigners - and the people in general still are. So why this change and why now? (I know that this whole thing has been discussed internally for a few years.) I was under the impression that as long as one spends money here and behaves decently one is welcome.

Is it the labour market? Are foreigners stealing jobs? Is it the amount of incoming foreigners that alarmed the government?

Does anyone here have a clue?

sparkle

[kojak]

anyone would think its just so they get more bums on seats,

on air asia flights from that new bangkok expencive airport!

[aussiestyle1983]

anyone would think its just so they get more bums on seats,

on air asia flights from that new bangkok expencive airport!

I dont think you could even get one extra bum on most Air Asia flights as they are usually packed! 3 out of the 4 Air Asia flights that i was scheduled on that were not full, were cancelled and everyone was transfered to a later flight so they could save costs by only using a full aircraft.................

I feel they want to get rid of people who are not bringing in or giving money to Thailand.

[Francis Maube]

The objective is quite clear, Package tourist are welcome and more so if they stay in expensive hotels that are owned by rich business with ties to the administration (how else could they become rich?).

Foreigners that have decided to live in LOS are potentialy dangerous. First of all they are aliens as we are reminded every time we visit an immigration office. I am not sure if the word was a result of a mistranslation or intended to be so but the effect is there, we are not only foreigers we are aliens who might as well be little green man coming from another planet.

Then this foreigners disturb the traditional local way of life because they look, act and speak differently. Tolerance and apathy is not the same thing.

Not all but a large number of foreigner at least think how to make a living in LOS. In the process they could come up with new ideas that could threaten the established hierarchy, that is a combination of money and power.

So who's got the money and power? let's be careful with specific. I do not think that anyone would argue that a specific (foreign) Ethnie is running LOS. They control all large and medium companies (except Siam Cement I believe), Probably at least half small busnisses, The government (Mr Toxin is a rather good example), the police, judiciary but, as recent events highlighted not quite the army, yet.

So could it be possible that this group, having had so far such a great run in LOS, could be fearing foreign competition?

Just a though.

[markg]

Agree with francis. They arent really trying to drive people out as such, buy are definitely more interested in smaller number of rich people coming on holiday then large numbers of unwashed travelling backpackers. You can surely see some logic in it i guess.

I dont think they re actively trying to drive anyone out, its just that the way they do business here seems to be very reactive and knee-jerk. And the result of Karr is that they knee-jerked a policy in that seems to drive a lot of people out who were working in either grey areas, or completely black areas.

Nothing has changed from the point of view of us being wholly accepted. We never were and i doubt we ever will be.

I have also seen reports that they are afraid of the Caribean Factor, whereby all the rich foreigners buy up a small plot of paradise and suddenly the locals cant get a house, or even feel alianated in their own country. Cant blame them for that eithr really.

[sparkle]

Agree with francis. They arent really trying to drive people out as such, buy are definitely more interested in smaller number of rich people coming on holiday then large numbers of unwashed travelling backpackers. You can surely see some logic in it i guess.

Well, ... not really. Because that would imply that backpackers tend to want to stay more than 90 days. Assuming that most backpackers are students this is not likely to be the case.

I dont think they re actively trying to drive anyone out, its just that the way they do business here seems to be very reactive and knee-jerk. And the result of Karr is that they knee-jerked a policy in that seems to drive a lot of people out who were working in either grey areas, or completely black areas.

That is the official explanation. Except the people working in such business (i.e. contract workers from neighbouring countries) have probably never done a visa run in their life. I just heard yesterday that they just 'disappear' after their admission period is over. Also heard about specialized transport enterprises with specifically fitted trucks that can take up to 25 people inside the undercarriage. Again, such people are no danger to the forces that are...

I have also seen reports that they are afraid of the Caribean Factor, whereby all the rich foreigners buy up a small plot of paradise and suddenly the locals cant get a house, or even feel alianated in their own country. Cant blame them for that eithr really.

This is proably true. But all you can buy here is a condo, right? For everything else you need a Thai who puts his/her name on the deal...

And: where is the lobby of apartment/house owners? They must make a lot of money from visa runners. They won't make money from tourists.

All considered, I can come up with only one reason: because they CAN.

Edited November 29, 2006 by sparkle

[thai_narak]

The logic behind the visa crackdown

Posted by Admin / 1. October 2006, 22:35

Pattaya Today

Or is it another financial own goal? Many myths are already growing up about the recent announcement that foreigners can only live in Thailand for 90 days out of 180 (in any six months period) if they insist of utilising the 30 day visa on arrivals available at border posts and immigration checkpoints. Three in a row and that’s your lot mate for the time being!

Some say the recent arrest and deportation of an alleged American pedophile, who had been teaching in Thai schools, prompted the immigration bureau to take a closer look at illegal working in general and the inadequate checks made on foreign teachers. Others claim that on a recent trip to Pattaya, senior immigration police from Bangkok were horrified to see all those advertisements promoting visa runs to the Cambodian border.

In reality, the visa crackdown is just a reminder that the Thais every now and again have doubts about their own hospitality policy. Are they in fact too open and welcoming? This nationalistic thinking in the Thai bureaucracy goes back a long way, at least until the 1970s when (as old hands remember) there was a rather similar crackdown during the administration of a military backed coup. The squeeze on the visas on arrival is aimed at three distinct, howbeit overlapping, groups of farangs.

The first are those using the visas on arrival to work in Thailand illegally. In Pattaya, there are probably hundreds of such individuals running bars, teaching English without a work permit and so on. One of the problems is that work permits are not normally available for running a bar – too small an investment to count – and it’s hardly the farang teacher’s fault if the school chooses to hire him or her without adequate checks as there’s such a shortage of English speakers.

The second group are foreign men under 50 years of age. Thai immigration takes the view that they are too young to retire and, unless they have a work permit, are likely living here without paying taxes as they would have to do in their own country. Some of these guys marry a Thai national and immigration sources say they will carry out more checks in future to see if the couple really are in love. There’s also a suspicion that some men in this group could be international criminals who have been using the automatic visa on arrival at border posts to come and go more or less undetected.

The final group are the backpackers or, to be polite, the budget traveller. Their problem is shortage of cash rather than illegal working. There may well be hundreds of such men in Pattaya who can afford, just about, the monthly visa runs to Aranyaprathet or Pong Nam Ron. The Thai government is saying this market needs clearing out as they contribute next to nothing to the Thai economy. Some of them run out of money altogether and go into overstay. When they are inevitably arrested sooner or later, the Thais have to feed them while they are held in jail. If they fall ill, they can become a further burden to the state. As when visa extension charges were raised from 500 baht to 1,900 baht a couple of years ago, some commentators are prophesying the end of mass tourism as we know it. It’s argued that everyone is going to uproot themselves and go to live in countries which will welcome them with open arms, such as Malaysia or Cambodia. So how likely is this? Not too likely. Not everyone who has been using the visas on arrival to live here is short of cash. They can for instance switch to living here on 60 day tourist visas or 90 days non immigrant visas, all of which can be extended for one or two months according to type. Some can obtain a multi entry visa when they return to their home country, assuming they do.

In other words, some richer farangs have been using the visa on arrival as an easy, non bureaucratic way of residing here. They can find alternatives now that they must. Some men over 50 will probably switch to the so-called one year retiremernt visa provided they have the necessary cash and pension income. The farangs in real trouble with the new regulations are those who are trapped here on small or inadequate budgets. Many are nice guys, but frankly they contribute little to the local economy. Their option as things now stand is to mix visas on arrival (for three months) with a single entry 90 day tourist visa from Penang. In other words, the recent announcement about squeezing the visas on arrival will certainly cause difficulties. But it’s hardly the end of Thailand as a mass tourist destination centre. Anyway, what we don’t know is how long this latest crackdown will last. Nothing is forever as they say.

[Firefan]

I have been switching between the different arguments - and one can easily find holes in each and every one. It makes sense that they would want long stayers to obtain long-stay visas, but at the same time they are closing down the investment visa while making it harder to obtain marriage/retirement/biz visas and so forth.

I do believe that these actions will leave to more illegal over-stayers, so better start carrying our passports (or at least copy) when they start checking foreigners all over the country.

CHeers!

[Dakhar]

One thing is for sure, when my wife was in America.... there was never a moment she ever felt that the US gov. wanted her out of there. I can remember the time she asked me, "Can I own a car?" I thought the question was silly.

But after living here, I now understand why she thought it was a vallid question. Bless her heart, she is filling out immigration papers right now, for me.

Thanks Hun... but as you complain and shake your head, and think this all this red tape is retarded.... remember this.... this is what you wanted.

Any time you want to pull up stakes, let me know, my bags are always ready

[thai_narak]

same thing, I only stay in thailand just because of my wife and son. if not for them, I won't be even reading this forum. one thing, bags are always packed just in case...

Edited November 29, 2006 by thai_narak

[Totster]

The argument that Thailand is trying to drive out the "unwashed backpackers" doesn't make sense to me.

Those travellers are still more than welcome in Thailand, as long as they get the correct visa. If they obtain a tourist visa prior to coming to Thailand then there is no problem.

For me, the target is those who choose to remain here in the (previously) gray area, using the 30 day stamp to live here long term, and also finance their stay by working illegally.

The problem is that by targeting those people, others that stay here using that method because there seems to no other way, have also found themselves "not wanted". I talk about those who live in Thailand, have plenty of money, don't need to work, but don't fit the criteria required for long term visas.

totster

[endure]

First of all they are aliens as we are reminded every time we visit an immigration office. I am not sure if the word was a result of a mistranslation or intended to be so but the effect is there, we are not only foreigers we are aliens who might as well be little green man coming from another planet.

I think you'll find that the word 'aliens' to describe non-residents is commonly used in legal systems round the world. It's certainly used in the US and UK legal systems.

[kriswillems]

Tourists staying here on 30-days stamps always have the option to return to their home country. Many countries have limitations on the number of days a tourist can stay in their country. I think that is logical. A tourist should be a tourist and not a permanent resident. Thailand is certainly not an exception.

People older than 50 are allowed to stay in Thailand if they have more than 800,000 baht on their account. Not many countries allow foreigners to stay in their country because they are old and have money. So, I think Thai law is very good for this group.

Married people have very often no other possiblity than staying with their wife or husband in Thailand. Very often the Thai person needs to take care of his/her parents. Children are expected to do this. Or maybe she/he is homesick and wants to life in Thailand. So, the foreign husband/wife is forced to life with them in thailand.

Not all Thai women are married with old foreign men (older than 50) and there are also many couples of which both husband and wife are young. These couples will have a very hard time since the introduction of the new law. They will need to make 40K/month or they will loose their one year extention, no matter how much money they have. Most countries allow permanent residence based on marriage, Thailand not. So Thailand is certainly an exception and is in my opinion Thai law is not humane for married couples.

Edited November 29, 2006 by kriswillems

[lopburi3]

They will need to make 40K/month or they will loose their one year extension, no matter how much money they have.

I really believe most people with the money to stay will find a way to stay. The 40k family income opens up the spouse income which should prove very beneficial to many couples in the age of both partners in a marriage normally working (which is what I see in middle class Thai society these days).

[kriswillems]

They will need to make 40K/month or they will loose their one year extension, no matter how much money they have.

I really believe most people with the money to stay will find a way to stay. The 40k family income opens up the spouse income which should prove very beneficial to many couples in the age of both partners in a marriage normally working (which is what I see in middle class Thai society these days).

Sure they will find a way, they have no other choice, but it will be hard for them.

I especially think about the couples living in the less rich parts of Thailand where 40K is still a lot of money. I also think about those couples that are not highly educated and do low paying jobs. Before many of those couples could stay in Thailand based on 400,000 baht on a bank account. Now the foreign partners will be forced to do expensive visa runs and fly out every year to get a new multiple entry non-immigrant-O visa.

If you compare the new Thai laws with the visa laws of most Western countries you'll come to the following conclusion:

- For tourists Thai law is fair and even very flexible because tourists have the possibility to stay practically the whole year in Thailand based on tourist visas.

- For retired people Thai law is exceptionally flexible and open

- For young married couples or young people taking care of Thai children Thai law is very strict

Edited November 29, 2006 by kriswillems

[thai_narak]

Married people have very often no other possiblity than staying with their wife or husband in Thailand. Very often the Thai person needs to take care of his/her parents. Children are expected to do this. Or maybe she/he is homesick and wants to life in Thailand. So, the foreign husband/wife is forced to life with them in thailand.

As I belong in this bracket, young married couples, I can tell that it is really difficult to plan anything in Thailand for the future knowing that it is very difficult to stay permanently. Even buying a house is a battle when deciding as it is very clear that it is not going to be a conjugal property. Relocating to another country is always an option for us when the kids are old enough.

For now, taking care of my wife's old dude is one priority so I have to sacrifice a while.

Edited November 29, 2006 by thai_narak

[kriswillems]

Married people have very often no other possiblity than staying with their wife or husband in Thailand. Very often the Thai person needs to take care of his/her parents. Children are expected to do this. Or maybe she/he is homesick and wants to life in Thailand. So, the foreign husband/wife is forced to life with them in thailand.

As I belong in this bracket, young married couples, I can tell that it is really difficult to plan anything in Thailand for the future knowing that it is very difficult to stay permanently. Even buying a house is a battle when deciding as it is very clear that it is not going to be a conjugal property. Relocating to another country is always an option for us when the kids are old enough.

For now, taking care of my wife's old dude is one priority so I have to sacrifice a while.

I am also in this situation. The uncertainty about what will happen with us in the future and the total dependency on the 40K/month is also driving me crazy. The old 400K rule was much better. The cultural differences already make an inter-racial marriage hard and the new and harsh visa rules will only result in more broken marriages.

If you think about your time in Thailand as a sacrifice you'll have a very hard time to stay together, because it's not sure yet that your wife is going to do the same sacrifice when you'll be returning to your home country. I've lived one year in Thailand and I'll be returning next year. I know the problems that are waiting for me. I think the best attitude is to think about your life in Thailand as being permanent. Humans can't build happiness on sacrafices (even if they are temporary) and false expectations.

I'll reserve a certain budget for building a life in Thailand. I'll do my very best to make something out of life there and don't waste my time. I'll keep a spare budget to return to my home country if Thailand is really going to kick me out (which might very well happen someday).

Edited November 29, 2006 by kriswillems

[zzz9]

Ok I'll give my own view of life here and about the rules.

I'm also young and married.

Its so stupid they make me&my wife lie about our personal income just to prove them we have 40K a month (which we have as we make our own biz).

But <deleted>?

I am fxxxing marry to a thai citizen!! hello ??I have family here!!I have a house.. (yes the stinky yellow house book..)??sooner or later I will have kids.. where will be their father??running to cambodia?singapour??

But never mind I love my house and my wife and my life here.

So we'll do it the thai way...which is .. simply TO LIE!

Hoooooo now you r a good farang..you lie..u pay money..we LOVE YOU!

[Cyberstar]

Ok I'll give my own view of life here and about the rules.

I'm also young and married.

Its so stupid they make me&my wife lie about our personal income just to prove them we have 40K a month (which we have as we make our own biz).

But <deleted>?

If you're running a bussiness making 40 K a month (as you say in a parentesis) what's there to lie about?

Frankly, it beats me why people, in their working age, makes such a fuss about a requirement asking them to make a monthly income of lousy 20 K per person. If they can't make even that little ... how good can they be?

[kriswillems]

Ok I'll give my own view of life here and about the rules.

I'm also young and married.

Its so stupid they make me&my wife lie about our personal income just to prove them we have 40K a month (which we have as we make our own biz).

But <deleted>?

If you're running a bussiness making 40 K a month (as you say in a parentesis) what's there to lie about?

Frankly, it beats me why people, in their working age, makes such a fuss about a requirement asking them to make a monthly income of lousy 20 K per person. If they can't make even that little ... how good can they be?

The chance a Thai person gets 40K/month is pretty small.

Tell me what the average Thai income is, substract that number from 40K and you know how much the average foreigner needs to get. It's for sure more than 20K. Then take into account that for 95% of all jobs a foreigner can not get a working permit and then you'll understand the fuss.

Edited November 29, 2006 by kriswillems

[Cyberstar]

... and what kind of future do people, coming from a country with free higher level education and still in their working age, plan for themselves and their family if they have to compare their own situation with the situation of uneducated natives?

[cclub75]

All this "table dancing" about visa rules, Foreign Business Law, thais nominees and other land ownership through companies... show one thing : we are too many.

That's the bottom line : thai governement feels that the number of aliens must be capped.

The point is : why don't we have precise numbers ?

Maybe I'm missing the sources of information because I can't read thai.

But :

-How many WP for the whole country (I only saw datas for Bangkok) ?

-How many visas for retirement ?

-How many visas for mariage ?

-How many investor visas ?

We are not talking about "studies", that would be difficult to conduct.

It should be easy for the administration to add those figures to come with a total of foreigners living in thailand on a permanent (yearly) basis.

To this "core", then we have to add of course all the tourists and other "short times visas".

I think that the gvt doesn't want to release thoses figures within the thai public. Because, it could be surprising. Too sensitive. We are too many.

Last point : of course, i'm speaking about "visible" foreigners (white, black etc) Not workers and/or illegal workers from Burma, Laos, Cambodia for instance who can "blend" within the population. And who are needed. That's another story...

Edited November 29, 2006 by cclub75

[brahmburgers]

Thai bureaucrats are renown for making unwise decisions. Look at the new airport, or the ban on liquor ads, or the early closing of bars, or enabling the former PM to use lottery revenue as political give-aways and buy votes, ....the list goes on and on. Consistently, rules gets enacted that turn out to be harmful to Thailand. The visa imbroglio is just one of the more recent manifestations. While not asking farang what they think, the armchair 'leaders' went and tightened up visa restrictions that will effectively;

1. turn away thousands of good and decent farang that would ordinarily contribute mightily to Thailand.

2. allow low-lifers to linger here. Just like welfare cheats, low-lifers will figure ways around the system.

3. turn away many badly needed native English teachers, plus many NGO personnel who contribute to a plethora of improvements for Thailand and the Thai people - especially the disadvantaged.

4. Seriously reduce outside revenue that would ordinarily come in to the kingdom through tourism and business.

[Rajah]

Frankly, it beats me why people, in their working age, makes such a fuss about a requirement asking them to make a monthly income of lousy 20 K per person. If they can't make even that little ... how good can they be?

What? The average income in Thailand is less than 10,000 Baht/month. Only the rich are good and the poor are bad? Gimme a break!

Edited November 30, 2006 by Rajah

[Casanundra]

I am not sure if it was Mr T who was specifically targeting foreigners or whether it's an ingrained national trait to just be so protective of all things Thai.

I work at a government office that gives me insights that would make the average foreigner shudder with disbelief at the things being proposed by some of the more senior government people I work with. To give you one example of this, we had a meeting yesterday and I counted no less than 7 proposals out of the 10 that were tabled on subjects concerning nominee shares, land ownership issues, foreign investments and generally protecting Thai people from the foreign devils "taking their livelihoods and reducing their profits" that I almost bit my tongue off in a bid to keep my thoughts locked in and to not say anything too drastic else I burst their protectionistic bubble.

I too fall into the category of being very highly educated, also married to an educated Thai, have sufficient funds in the bank to stay here indefinitely (if I wanted to) but being under 40 (just) it means that the Thai authorities in their mindset don't recognise or understand that I and people like me could possibly have enough money to retire or relax this young so they insist on making it harder for us.

As such, the collective "we' are in a constant state of flux here and we will never really be accepted. We are tolerated 'yes' but we will never ever in a zillion years be accepted. After listening to the continued nationalist banter and protectionist nonsense coming from the senior government folks in my office who continue to hide behind notions of 'we are still a developing country' to justify their stance, I have no illusions about what is happening here and the indications are that things are not likely to change for sometime to come. If at all.

I will be leaving soon with my Thai wife to new shores as part of my longer term retirement plan and will just come back in 10 years time when it's my turn to officially retire at 50 with enough money to live the life of riley doing what ever I please.

In the mean time if anyone wants a senior position working for the Thai Government and is happy to listen to senior Thai folk proposing things that will continue to bolt down the hatches against foreign devils coming into Thailand then a post may be up for grabs in the next month or so. All you need to qualify for the post is to have done a Doctorate, hold a Bachelors Degree in Business, a Masters Degree in Engineering, a Masters Degree in Law and 20 years industry experience... oh and the ability to understand Thai and speak fluent English whilst accepting a salary equivalent to a MacDonalds or Burger King counter clerk

Edited November 30, 2006 by Casanundra

[thai_narak]

All this "table dancing" about visa rules, Foreign Business Law, thais nominees and other land ownership through companies... show one thing : we are too many.

That's the bottom line : thai governement feels that the number of aliens must be capped.

The point is : why don't we have precise numbers ?

Maybe I'm missing the sources of information because I can't read thai.

But :

-How many WP for the whole country (I only saw datas for Bangkok) ?

-How many visas for retirement ?

-How many visas for mariage ?

-How many investor visas ?

We are not talking about "studies", that would be difficult to conduct.

It should be easy for the administration to add those figures to come with a total of foreigners living in thailand on a permanent (yearly) basis.

To this "core", then we have to add of course all the tourists and other "short times visas".

I think that the gvt doesn't want to release thoses figures within the thai public. Because, it could be surprising. Too sensitive. We are too many.

Last point : of course, i'm speaking about "visible" foreigners (white, black etc) Not workers and/or illegal workers from Burma, Laos, Cambodia for instance who can "blend" within the population. And who are needed. That's another story...

Of course you are right that we are too many and the Thai government has to do something to wipe out the illegal ones. But what about the legal ones? Everyone would agree (even thai people) that the visa requirements for married couples in Thailand is inhumane. This shows that the government does not give importance to the family (from mix marriages) unlike in other countries. The Non-O visa is joke! I cannot immagine doing visa run until I'm 60yrs/o.

Edited November 30, 2006 by thai_narak

[Nam Kao]

Very good posts

Kupun mak

[Gary A]

I think we all know people who shouldn't be here. They lie, beg, cheat, steal and scam their way through life. Perhaps that is the type of persons the changes are trying to eliminate. (?) The way things are going at this point is that they are insisting on throwing out the baby with the bath water. Where is the logic? What logic? I know some old timers who have been doing monthly visa runs for years and managed to stay legal. They live on a small amount of monthly income and they harm no one. They are now planning to be illegal and are waiting to see what happens. It can't be a very good life for them while they are waiting to be thrown out of the country or possibly jailed. The new rules simply stink.

[Rajah]

... the visa requirements for married couples in Thailand is inhumane.

Just imagine it'd be vice versa: Thai wifes married to a US citizien doing visa runs to Mexico or Canada every 90 days. Or to NZ if married to an Aussie, or to a neighbering country if married to an European.

I know some pensioners in Koh Samui, they are about 60 years old and have a monthly pension of around 25k. It's enough for them to do their decent living. Illegal aliens?

[Gumballl]

I am not sure if it was Mr T who was specifically targeting foreigners or whether it's an ingrained national trait to just be so protective of all things Thai.

I work at a government office that gives me insights that would make the average foreigner shudder with disbelief at the things being proposed by some of the more senior government people I work with. To give you one example of this, we had a meeting yesterday and I counted no less than 7 proposals out of the 10 that were tabled on subjects concerning nominee shares, land ownership issues, foreign investments and generally protecting Thai people from the foreign devils "taking their livelihoods and reducing their profits" that I almost bit my tongue off in a bid to keep my thoughts locked in and to not say anything too drastic else I burst their protectionistic bubble.

I too fall into the category of being very highly educated, also married to an educated Thai, have sufficient funds in the bank to stay here indefinitely (if I wanted to) but being under 40 (just) it means that the Thai authorities in their mindset don't recognise or understand that I and people like me could possibly have enough money to retire or relax this young so they insist on making it harder for us.

As such, the collective "we' are in a constant state of flux here and we will never really be accepted. We are tolerated 'yes' but we will never ever in a zillion years be accepted. After listening to the continued nationalist banter and protectionist nonsense coming from the senior government folks in my office who continue to hide behind notions of 'we are still a developing country' to justify their stance, I have no illusions about what is happening here and the indications are that things are not likely to change for sometime to come. If at all.

I will be leaving soon with my Thai wife to new shores as part of my longer term retirement plan and will just come back in 10 years time when it's my turn to officially retire at 50 with enough money to live the life of riley doing what ever I please.

In the mean time if anyone wants a senior position working for the Thai Government and is happy to listen to senior Thai folk proposing things that will continue to bolt down the hatches against foreign devils coming into Thailand then a post may be up for grabs in the next month or so. All you need to qualify for the post is to have done a Doctorate, hold a Bachelors Degree in Business, a Masters Degree in Engineering, a Masters Degree in Law and 20 years industry experience... oh and the ability to understand Thai and speak fluent English whilst accepting a salary equivalent to a MacDonalds or Burger King counter clerk

I continually find it amazing that many posts here on TV, made by foreigners, condemn the immigration policy of Thailand, as if that would make any difference.

Once it would be nice if a Thai spouse, or a group of such spouses, would petition (and demand) the Thai government for change. Sure it wouldn't happen overnight, but over time, anything is possible.

If the same Thai immigration policy were to be exercised in the UK or the US, half the populace would probably revolt... or just ignore the policies (the US is a good example). They would summon the media to report immigration injustices, or about a deportation proceeding that would separate mother and child. This is always done in an effort to sway public opinion. Most people (unfortunately not many Thais) know this tactic all to well.

So therefore I ask that if you have a Thai spouse, especially one that is educated, ask them to become proactive... SPEAK UP, write letters to representatives, to Thai newspapers... heck, march down the street in protest (in a non-martial law province). I know it is not Thai style, but spouses need to understand that a marriage to a foreigner requires them to change their mentality.

Till this day happens, I think it will be obvious what will happen.

Now if only my wife had a university education, didn't have a two year old to look after, and another on the way... hmmm.... for now I can only dream.

P.S. Casanundra - I wasn't picking on your post perse, but chose it because it seems that you write well, and have access to the policy makers and the plans they are conjuring up.

Edited November 30, 2006 by Gumballl