Florida nightclub shooting: Two killed, 15 injured at Club Blu, Fort Myers

[Usernames]

A killer armed with a knife or ax or machete can potentially kill a few people, but it's going to take time and has to be done at close range, thus giving the chance for police to arrive and/or people nearby to overwhelm the attacker.

One person armed with an automatic weapon can quickly kill dozens and can do it all from a remote distance. I would argue, two entirely different kinds of threats.

In the shooting in this case, although police haven't yet said how many shots were fired, the CNN report I quoted above said there were 36 evidence markers laid out on the ground in front of the club.

Police didn't say how many shots were fired, but the front of the club was covered with at least 36 yellow evidence markers.

Tell that to the Japanese this morning.

[shirtless]

No mention of nationality but i would not be shocked if he was a Muslim they love spreading their religion of peace.

I don't think so. In America shooting happen all the time and its part of their culture to shoot each other but I could be wrong. In Europe its a different story most of the time.

Around 12 years ago I was offered a well paid job in L.A. and also the money was good (250,000$ pa) I turned it down and prefer Thailand as it is more save.

Its obvious comprehension of the written word is not your strong point .

[lucky11]

Welcome to Obama's America.

Anyone think HRC will change it?

Pity the deputies weren't there BEFORE the shootings. I guess armed security will be a fixture at any gathering in the US from now on, or at least it should be.

Women are the fastest growing demographic owning guns in the US. Perhaps teenagers will be joining them now.

Don't blame Obama, blame the gun lobby - Obama wants stricter laws on gun ownership but his plea falls on death ears from those with a vested interest from the gun lobby scum who fend off any law changes!

To be honest, I simply don't have feelings either way when there are gun related deaths/massacres in the US any more as it is not newsworthy, in my mind. It is just another day in America as far as I'm concerned!

[Scotwight]

Welcome to Obama's America.

Anyone think HRC will change it?

Pity the deputies weren't there BEFORE the shootings. I guess armed security will be a fixture at any gathering in the US from now on, or at least it should be.

Women are the fastest growing demographic owning guns in the US. Perhaps teenagers will be joining them now.

Don't blame Obama, blame the gun lobby - Obama wants stricter laws on gun ownership but his plea falls on death ears from those with a vested interest from the gun lobby scum who fend off any law changes!

To be honest, I simply don't have feelings either way when there are gun related deaths/massacres in the US any more as it is not newsworthy, in my mind. It is just another day in America as far as I'm concerned!

How about knife related deaths or cleaver related deaths or suicide vest related deaths or machete related deaths? Do you have a preference or it is it just another anti American thing?

[mopar71]

Has anyone seen the video of Debbie Wasserman-Schultzbeing booed and she tried to get them to quiet down by mentioning the shooting in Fort Myers?

Crowd: BOO! BOOOOOOOOO!

DWS "There was a shooting in Fort Myers."

Crowd: BOO! BOOOOOOOOO!

DWS "Children were shot."

Crowd: BOO! BOOOOOOOOO!

DWS: [looking scared]

Crowd: BOO! BOOOOOOOOO!

To say those people are angry is an under-statement. No one ever boos "children got shot".

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A killer armed with a knife or ax or machete can potentially kill a few people, but it's going to take time and has to be done at close range, thus giving the chance for police to arrive and/or people nearby to overwhelm the attacker.

One person armed with an automatic weapon can quickly kill dozens and can do it all from a remote distance. I would argue, two entirely different kinds of threats.

In the shooting in this case, although police haven't yet said how many shots were fired, the CNN report I quoted above said there were 36 evidence markers laid out on the ground in front of the club.

Police didn't say how many shots were fired, but the front of the club was covered with at least 36 yellow evidence markers.

Tell that to the Japanese this morning.

It's a terrible crime in Japan, more senseless violence by disturbed people.

But even so, this unfortunate incident is hardly the norm. The victims here were in a disabled care facility, including a lot of elderly, attacked by a former employee who broke in in the middle of the night, presumably when most were asleep in bed.

(CNN)At least 19 people were killed and 26 injured in a stabbing spree at a facility for disabled people west of Tokyo, making it one of Japan's deadliest mass killings since World War II.

If this guy's targeted were normal, able-bodied people in a public place, the death and injury toll surely would have been less.

Edited July 26, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[GeorgesAbitbol]

A killer armed with a knife or ax or machete can potentially kill a few people, but it's going to take time and has to be done at close range, thus giving the chance for police to arrive and/or people nearby to overwhelm the attacker.

One person armed with an automatic weapon can quickly kill dozens and can do it all from a remote distance. I would argue, two entirely different kinds of threats.

In the shooting in this case, although police haven't yet said how many shots were fired, the CNN report I quoted above said there were 36 evidence markers laid out on the ground in front of the club.

Police didn't say how many shots were fired, but the front of the club was covered with at least 36 yellow evidence markers.

Tell that to the Japanese this morning.

Even with this attack in Japan, I defy you to compare killings in japan with USA per capita.. u am sure you won t do it...

[louse1953]

No mention of nationality but i would not be shocked if he was a Muslim they love spreading their religion of peace.

That's right,no mention at all,so why speculate,or have you an agenda.

[louse1953]

Try posting your anti gun things in special thread for anti gun nuts and leave the other threads for those who want to discuss the topic.

Maybe you should re-read the OP. The topic of this thread just happens to be, multiple people being killed and injured by gun violence -- yet again.

No it's not. The topic is "

Florida nightclub shooting: Two killed, 15 injured at Club Blu, Fort Myers"

Maybe you should re-read the OP and then come back and apologize for trying to change the topic.

5555,this is TVF.

[kamahele]

No mention of nationality but i would not be shocked if he was a Muslim they love spreading their religion of peace.

Why would you think it was a Muslim who committed these murders? The great majority of murders in America are committed by those that would say they are "Christians". Muslim Americans on average tend to be more highly educated and less likely prone to commit crimes than your average white, Christian American.

[kamahele]

Welcome to Obama's America.

Anyone think HRC will change it?

Pity the deputies weren't there BEFORE the shootings. I guess armed security will be a fixture at any gathering in the US from now on, or at least it should be.

Women are the fastest growing demographic owning guns in the US. Perhaps teenagers will be joining them now.

What exactly does Obama have to do with a shooting at a teen nightclub party? Try blaming the politicians who are bought and paid for by the NRA which is bought and paid for by the gun manufacturers for these deaths.

[thaibeachlovers]

It's impossible not to politicize gun violence events in the U.S. now. May as well talk it out and may the most rational approach win.

IMO there is no rational approach in the US. Something in the US character leads to these situations. In New Zealand people can own rifles, shotguns ( not handguns ) and even 50 cal guns but there aren't crazy people running around shooting loads of people. Neither are the cops armed, because the crims just don't use weapons ordinarily like they do in the US.

As guns can't be banned in the US, better that the good guys are armed and trained to use them, than wandering around helpless in the next and the next and the next incident. I expect that loads more guns are being sold now, as people know the police won't be there soon enough to save them.

[ballpoint]

No mention of nationality but i would not be shocked if he was a Muslim they love spreading their religion of peace.

No mention of nationality but i would not be shocked if he was a Christian they love spreading their religion of peace.

excellent, but probably beyond the grasp of many drunken cro-magnins.

...........who at the least, can spell Cro-Magnons.

Or, given the thread, Pro-Magnums

[thaibeachlovers]

No mention of nationality but i would not be shocked if he was a Muslim they love spreading their religion of peace.

Why would you think it was a Muslim who committed these murders? The great majority of murders in America are committed by those that would say they are "Christians". Muslim Americans on average tend to be more highly educated and less likely prone to commit crimes than your average white, Christian American.

No real Christian would do those murders. Just because they are white doesn't mean they are Christian- more likely agnostic or atheist. In case you missed it, Jesus said love your enemy, not go out and blow him away.

[kamahele]

A killer armed with a knife or ax or machete can potentially kill a few people, but it's going to take time and has to be done at close range, thus giving the chance for police to arrive and/or people nearby to overwhelm the attacker.

One person armed with an automatic weapon can quickly kill dozens and can do it all from a remote distance. I would argue, two entirely different kinds of threats.

In the shooting in this case, although police haven't yet said how many shots were fired, the CNN report I quoted above said there were 36 evidence markers laid out on the ground in front of the club.

Police didn't say how many shots were fired, but the front of the club was covered with at least 36 yellow evidence markers.

Nonsense again. France many people were killed by automatic weapons. You are just ranting about US gun laws. I anyone wants an automatic weapon anyplace they can get one. Try concentrating on the problem rather than method which makes no sense. Explosives kill many more people than guns in war and in terror attacks and you are not going to ban the chemicals that make the explosives are you? Did guns kill the people in the twin towers and more people were killed there than at Pearl Harbor. Try posting your anti gun things in special thread for anti gun nuts and leave the other threads for those who want to discuss the topic.

You really miss the point. Guns were invented for killing. They are killing machines and today's guns can kill at a fast rate of speed. Comparing mass murderers in America to acts of terror using aircraft doesn't come close to the mark. This is stuff peddled by the NRA to excuse the blood on their hands.

[kamahele]

For the racists out there who are speculating that a black man committed this crime, and making comments concerning Black Lives Matter. It may have been a black man who committed the crime. I don't know, however, white males commit by far the most mass murders in America. More than any other race. More than most put together.

As for Black Lives Matter, as I understand it, they are an organization focused on police on black civilian crime. They wouldn't be commenting on a crime which is a civilian on civilian crime.

[Jingthing]

For the racists out there who are speculating that a black man committed this crime, and making comments concerning Black Lives Matter. It may have been a black man who committed the crime. I don't know, however, white males commit by far the most mass murders in America. More than any other race. More than most put together.

As for Black Lives Matter, as I understand it, they are an organization focused on police on black civilian crime. They wouldn't be commenting on a crime which is a civilian on civilian crime.

Well, I know the question is loaded, about BLM not focusing on black on black violence, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue worth considering.

Wouldn’t better behaved, more accountable, less abusive police departments make people in poor black communities marginally more inclined to involve law enforcement in disputes before they turn deadly, to cooperate more during homicide investigations, and to collaborate with the cops in making their blocks safer?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/black-lives-matter-loury-mcwhorter/409117/

[dunroaming]

Mass shooting in the USA? Just another day at the office.

Breaking news of another murder in a church in Normandy. This one almost definitely IS inspired or backed. How organised it was still in question but the terrorist element is pretty certain.

[Baerboxer]

No mention of nationality but i would not be shocked if he was a Muslim they love spreading their religion of peace.

No mention of nationality but i would not be shocked if he was a Christian they love spreading their religion of peace.

How many atrocities this year so far have been carried out by individuals or Groups claiming to be fighting a religious war on behalf of their one and only true religion?

Bombings. shootings, knife attacks, axe attacks, vehicle attacks, numerous sexual assaults, beheadings and burning alive etc etc?

[Scotwight]

Welcome to Obama's America.

Anyone think HRC will change it?

Pity the deputies weren't there BEFORE the shootings. I guess armed security will be a fixture at any gathering in the US from now on, or at least it should be.

Women are the fastest growing demographic owning guns in the US. Perhaps teenagers will be joining them now.

What exactly does Obama have to do with a shooting at a teen nightclub party? Try blaming the politicians who are bought and paid for by the NRA which is bought and paid for by the gun manufacturers for these deaths.

Reading the advertising for the club on their Facebook page - one gained free admission to the club by not wearing panties (knickers). Perhaps we should blame the panty (knicker) manufacturers too?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

To some of those who have commented on this above, let me say as an American, there is NO American thing in society at large about needing to have or use guns, despite what some folks from other countries would like to think.

There are, however, a couple of actual facts that bear on the subject:

--the U.S. has a bill of rights, now 225 years ago, back from the era of single-shot muskets and the U.S. fighting for independence from Britain, that guarantees U.S. citizens the right to "bear arms." The thinking behind that two centuries ago was that citizens should be able to defend themselves against an abusive monarchy/government.

--Because of that constitutional protection and court cases that have interpreted it over the decades, it's been very difficult to enact the kinds of gun restrictions that many Americans, sickened of gun violence both at home and abroad, would fully support. And then add to that, a very powerful and influential political gun lobby (the NRA, backed by a lot of right-wing gun fanatics) that too many politicians are fearful of opposing. And the end result is political gridlock for most gun legislation.

I believe in the Bill of Rights, and I understand the reason the gun ownership right was included in it. But for me, that 225-year-old provision, enacted in an entirely different world from the one that exists today, ought not be stretched to mean that anyone ought to be able to buy any gun they want without any meaningful background checks or waiting period.

Likewise, I understand the notion of self-defense and a historic gun right. But I've yet to have anyone convince me that somehow the possession and use of rapid-firing assault rifles that can spray bullets like the rain is what the founders had in mind, nor what is reasonably required for self-defense, sport hunting, etc.

[Scotwight]

To some of those who have commented on this above, let me say as an American, there is NO American thing in society at large about needing to have or use guns, despite what some folks from other countries would like to think.

There are, however, a couple of actual facts that bear on the subject:

--the U.S. has a bill of rights, now 225 years ago, back from the era of single-shot muskets and the U.S. fighting for independence from Britain, that guarantees U.S. citizens the right to "bear arms." The thinking behind that two centuries ago was that citizens should be able to defend themselves against an abusive monarchy/government.

--Because of that constitutional protection and court cases that have interpreted it over the decades, it's been very difficult to enact the kinds of gun restrictions that many Americans, sickened of gun violence both at home and abroad, would fully support. And then add to that, a very powerful and influential political gun lobby (the NRA, backed by a lot of right-wing gun fanatics) that too many politicians are fearful of opposing. And the end result is political gridlock for most gun legislation.

I believe in the Bill of Rights, and I understand the reason the gun ownership right was included in it. But for me, that 225-year-old provision, enacted in an entirely different world from the one that exists today, ought not be stretched to mean that anyone ought to be able to buy any gun they want without any meaningful background checks or waiting period.

Likewise, I understand the notion of self-defense and a historic gun right. But I've yet to have anyone convince me that somehow the possession and use of rapid-firing assault rifles that can spray bullets like the rain is what the founders had in mind, nor what is reasonably required for self-defense, sport hunting, etc.

Let me say as an American, that you are way off topic and should be prevented from turning every thread into an anti gun rant as opposed to discussing the topic.

[ClutchClark]

For the racists out there who are speculating that a black man committed this crime, and making comments concerning Black Lives Matter. It may have been a black man who committed the crime. I don't know, however, white males commit by far the most mass murders in America. More than any other race. More than most put together.

As for Black Lives Matter, as I understand it, they are an organization focused on police on black civilian crime. They wouldn't be commenting on a crime which is a civilian on civilian crime.

How is saying a black male committed this act of violence against children deemed "racist"?

[Ulysses G.]

I don't know, however, white males commit by far the most mass murders in America. More than any other race. More than most put together.

Nonsense. Blacks commit more murders than whites, even though they are only 13% of the population. In fact, 52% of murders are committed by blacks. That is why the police tend to overreact sometimes when a suspect is a male African American.

[mopar71]

I believe in the Bill of Rights, and I understand the reason the gun ownership right was included in it. But for me, that 225-year-old provision, enacted in an entirely different world from the one that exists today, ought not be stretched to mean that anyone ought to be able to buy any gun they want without any meaningful background checks or waiting period.

Likewise, I understand the notion of self-defense and a historic gun right. But I've yet to have anyone convince me that somehow the possession and use of rapid-firing assault rifles that can spray bullets like the rain is what the founders had in mind, nor what is reasonably required for self-defense, sport hunting, etc.

Then you will be relieved to learn that anyone cannot just buy any gun they want, and that "rapid-firing assault rifles that can spray bullets like the rain" have been illegal for decades.

As for what the founders had in mind...I wonder where they would fall on the gender identity-bathroom issue?

[mopar71]

I don't know, however, white males commit by far the most mass murders in America. More than any other race. More than most put together.

Nonsense. Blacks commit more murders than whites, even though they are only 13% of the population. In fact, 52% of murders are committed by blacks. That is why the police tend to overreact sometimes when a suspect is a male African American.

...and 90% of that 52% are other blacks.

For mass murders, I think he is getting it confused with serial killers which usually are white. Lately, the mass shooters haven't been white...San Bernadino, Orlando, Dallas cops, Ft Myers nightclub, Marine recruiting offices.

[Shot]

"3 men arrested after deadly Fort Myers nightclub shooting"

"Derrick Church, 19, of Fort Myers; Tajze Battle, 22, of Fort Myers and Demetrius O’Neal, 19, of Lehigh Acres were arrested."

http://wfla.com/2016/07/26/3-men-arrested-after-deadly-fort-myers-nightclub-shooting/

[ClutchClark]

"3 men arrested after deadly Fort Myers nightclub shooting"

"Derrick Church, 19, of Fort Myers; Tajze Battle, 22, of Fort Myers and Demetrius ONeal, 19, of Lehigh Acres were arrested."

http://wfla.com/2016/07/26/3-men-arrested-after-deadly-fort-myers-nightclub-shooting/

Nothing newsworthy here--just more black on black violence.

Just another bunch of young black males with a firearm killing children.

We certainly won't see any demonstrations talking about injustice.

If these mens great-great-great grandparents had not been slaves of the white man then this never would have happened.

Edited July 27, 2016 by ClutchClark

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Then you will be relieved to learn that anyone cannot just buy any gun they want, and that "rapid-firing assault rifles that can spray bullets like the rain" have been illegal for decades.

The restrictions that used to be in place -- which didn't cover all assault weapons and ammunition but just some -- expired in 2013 and have not been renewed by Congress as yet in any form:

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) — officially, the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act — is a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law that included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms it defined as assault weapons, as well as certain ammunition magazines it defined as "large capacity."

The ten-year ban was passed by the U.S. Congress on September 13, 1994, following a close 52-48 vote in the Senate, and signed into law by then President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban only applied to weapons manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment, and it expired on September 13, 2004, in accordance with its sunset provision.

Efforts to renew the ban

The assault weapons ban expired on September 13, 2004. Legislation to renew or replace the ban was proposed numerous times unsuccessfully.

Between May 2003 and June 2008, U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-CA, and Representatives Michael Castle, R-DE, Alcee Hastings, D-FL, and Mark Kirk, R-IL, introduced bills to reauthorize the ban.^[35] During the same time, Senator Frank Lautenberg, D-NJ, and Representative Carolyn McCarthy, D-NY, introduced similar bills to create a new ban with a revised definition for assault weapons. None of the bills left committee.^[36]

After the November 2008 election, the website of President-elect Barack Obama, listed a detailed agenda for the forthcoming administration. The stated positions included "making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent."^[37] Three months later, newly sworn-in Attorney General Eric Holder reiterated the Obama administration's desire to reinstate the ban.^[38] The mention came in response to a question during a joint press conference with DEA Acting Administrator Michele Leonhart, discussing efforts to crack down on Mexican drug cartels. Attorney General Holder said: "... there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons."^[39]

Efforts to pass a new federal assault weapons ban were made in December 2012 after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Connecticut.^[40][41][42] On January 24, 2013, Senator Feinstein introduced S. 150, the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013 (AWB 2013).^[43] The bill was similar to the 1994 ban, but differed in that it would not expire after 10 years,^[42] and it used a one-feature test for a firearm to qualify as an assault weapon rather than the two-feature test of the defunct ban.^[44] The GOP Congressional delegation from the State of Texas condemned Feinstein's bill, along with the NRA.^[45] On March 14, 2013, the Senate Judiciary Committee approved a version of the bill along party lines.^[46]On April 17, 2013, AWB 2013 failed on a Senate vote of 40 to 60.^[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

[ClutchClark]

As a lifelong firearm owner I will say that zi supported the Assault Weapons Ban that was mentioned above.

Unfortunately, since it has expired, there have been millions of high-cap mags and AR-style weapons manufactured and sold legslly and even if the Ban were reintroduced it would tske seversl decades to remove these newly manufactured items from circulation.

High capacity magazines are designed for one purpose--get off as many shots as possible without making yourself vulnersble to being disarmed while reloading. They are a great magazine to have if you are going to shoot up a movie theatre, a grade school, a public speaking event, etc..