Thailand Elite Card is pleased to announce the release of four new membership programs

[DUS]

30 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'll be 50 in 3 years so its just a case of METVs every year then SETVs if that becomes a problem.

 

That´s a fair point and I am really happy for you that this works for you. Personally, I don´t want to

 

a/ go back to my home country every 6 - 9 months (for another METV)

b/ be forced to leave the country every 60 days for runs / a new stamp (alternatively visit the Immi office every 60 days for a 30 days extension before I am THEN forced to leave the country)

c/ pay, in my case, 60,000 Baht a year for the runs plus the cost of the visa(s) when for what is a small amount on top I can enjoy the TE program

 

So, as I´ve said plenty of times before, the TE is a wonderful thing for those who need / want it whilst it is equally brilliant that Thailand offers you the opportunity to visit other countries every 60/90 days for the next 3 years till you hit "the magic 50". As far as I can see it: Everyone´s a winner! 

Edited May 9, 2017 by DUS

[midas]

2 hours ago, DUS said:

So the APEC card is not an option for many people and even less comparable to  TE and the 5 year visa it represents.

I wasn't trying to infer that both cards are comparable in style. I merely gave the cost information to show how in my opinion is very overpriced and is padded with unnecessary gimmicky additions. If Apec can provide a card for less than 2000 baht a year plus the savings you achieve when travelling to other countries (e.g. Vietnam Visa costs are quite high) I don't see how this organisation can justify its charges.

[Flustered]

I don't see why all the negativity with this visa.I can only think it is sour grapes.

 

The more types of visa available, the greater the choice to suit peoples bank balance and life style.

 

I must admit the 20 year one looks attractive to my wife and I as we have budgeted for one million baht each left in a deposit account and as we probably will never use it as we grow nearer to meeting our maker, the 20 year no hassles option looks good. What's wrong with wanting fewer hassles as you grow older. They even help you with the 90 day reporting and express airport bit would help us as we intend to visit Singapore each year during the smokey season.

 

The more visas the merrier.

[DUS]

1 minute ago, midas said:

I don't see how this organisation can justify its charges.

 

Well, 4k+ members so far have considered the charges to be fair value for them. So, I guess, that´s why TE will continue to market their membership levels at those prices. 

[DUS]

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

I don't see why all the negativity with this visa.I can only think it is sour grapes.

 

(...)

 

The more visas the merrier.

 

Couldn´t agree more! Well said!

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I don't see why all the negativity with this visa.I can only think it is sour grapes.

The more types of visa available, the greater the choice to suit peoples bank balance and life style.

...

The negativity exists, because promoters of this visa tend to fear-monger in other threads - literally celebrating when someone living here on other visas suffers - and predicting doom/gloom and ripping people away from the people and place they care about - to try to scare people into buying it.  Stop doing that, and no one will care that some other option exists.

[scubascuba3]

I don't see why all the negativity with this visa.I can only think it is sour grapes.
 

I don't class it as negativity just a discussion on the good the bad and maybe the ugly. I don't see why the sensitivity of anything discussed which isn't positive.

And by the way, thaivisa has a very negative culture. The visa threads are more positive than most.

[DUS]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The negativity exists, because promoters of this visa tend to fear-monger in other threads - literally celebrating when someone living here on other visas suffers - and predicting doom/gloom and ripping people away from the people and place they care about - to try to scare people into buying it.  Stop doing that, and no one will care that some other option exists.

That´s interesting! Can you link to a few examples of that happening, please! I´d really appreciate that! Thank you!

[lkn]

4 hours ago, buick said:

i'm a little confused (i'm not a TE holder).  i think they are saying they are currently profitable as the 'accumulated losses' have been reduced from 1.4 billion to 830 million.  so the initial program was a complete bust but the more recent offerings have been profitable.  am i reading that right ?

I think they cheat a little with the accounting, for example they say that the 412 new members has given them 233 million baht in revenue, majority of which they have (likely) used to bring down their accumulated loss.

 

 

But these members are paying for 5-20 years, so this revenue should be accrued, meaning that best case it would only be 47 million in income (for the first six months of fiscal 2017).

 

They also have some lifetime members, meaning they have to provide services to these members for the rest of their life, yet these members do not yield any future revenue, so supporting these should be booked as a future liability and added to the accumulated loss (which I am sure it is not).

 

That said, it definitely seems to go in the right direction, with roughly 10% of their members having joined in the last six months, on the other hand, there could have been a lot of people on the fence who bought when the 5 year visa was announced, so it’s too early to say if the current sales numbers are sustainable.

 

[Flustered]

This subject has been raised many times on TV forums and each time there are those who are openly hostile to anyone taking or thinking of taking the TE route.

 

There are so many options open to visas depending on your financial status that almost everyone is covered one way or another.

 

This is almost like the attitude of "why should you be able to buy better health care or better education when I cannot afford it". There will never be equality in life but in Thailand, the visa system allows for anyone who can afford to live here to do so.

 

Thailand is not the preserve of the poorer off, it is open to anyone who can meet the Thai requirements.

[huberthammer]

6 hours ago, midas said:

To illustrate why I regard 500,000 baht to be excessive I compare it to the APEC card which I had for 9 years before I got my retirement visa.

This is essentially a 3 Visa but not only for Thailand - also all other APEC member countries like China, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. this meant with this one card I never had to pay any Visa fees whatsoever to visit the other APEC countries either.

 

Grand cost for 3 years - $186 or $62 annually equals about 1,860 Baht per year.

 

That is what I call enjoying useful benefits

I would challenge that you can make a comparison between the two options. As far as I know APEC card is for business travellers and just helps to get easy in and out of a country without a visa. You will not be able to stay for longer than 90 days and as far as I know (from a friend who had the issue) if you spend all year in Thailand and just do for Visa runs with the APEC you are in a very similar situation as with a tourist visa and the according visa runs. 

 

Happy to be proven wrong but to me this is not a solution for somebody who wants to live in Thailand all year and does not qualify for the retirement visa yet. 

[midas]

19 minutes ago, huberthammer said:

I would challenge that you can make a comparison between the two options. As far as I know APEC card is for business travellers and just helps to get easy in and out of a country without a visa. You will not be able to stay for longer than 90 days and as far as I know (from a friend who had the issue) if you spend all year in Thailand and just do for Visa runs with the APEC you are in a very similar situation as with a tourist visa and the according visa runs. 

 

Happy to be proven wrong but to me this is not a solution for somebody who wants to live in Thailand all year and does not qualify for the retirement visa yet. 

Firstly there is a bit of a difference between having a friend who gives you information and actually personally holding the card for 9 years as I did. I can speak from personal experience.

I lived in Thailand  between 2003 when the card was first issued to 2012 not working and for the whole 9 years and not one immigration officer  uttered a thing about not being able to continually live here. Yes I had to do a border run every 90 days but I was excited to do so and even though I was fully entitled to just walk immediately back into Thailand I very rarely did so because it was an interesting break every 90 days to explore adjoining countries in Southeast Asia.

But again I repeat what I said before. I'm not intending to directly compare the two cards but what I am saying is I still got the benefit of living full-time and there is a substantial difference between paying less than 2000 baht per year compared to 100,000 baht.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by midas

[Flustered]

Why I for one will be using the TE scheme.

1.            I can afford to do so

2.            I do not want any hassle when transiting through or entering Thailand via airports.

3.            I like the idea of being reminded and helped with my 90 day reporting

4.            I only have to renew my visa every five years and the paperwork is organised for me

5.            They will organise the obtaining of my Thai driving license

6.            They will organise the obtaining of my residency certificate

 

I do not care about golf, massages, courtesy lemo's or any other value added service. I only want an easy, stress free life.

I am sorry if this offends those who have to do all of this themselves but this is my (along with thousands of others) choice. I do not criticise anyone for how they stay in Thailand or how they organise their lives.

[DUS]

10 minutes ago, midas said:

But again I repeat what I said before. I'm not intending to directly compare the two cards but what I am saying is I still got the benefit of living full-time

 

Apart from being forced to do the "visa runs" every 90 days and the fact that many, many people are not able to obtain the APEC card, yes, paying 2.000Baht a year is certainly cheaper than 100k. I guess, if I were entitled to the APEC card, I would certainly consider it. Unfortunately, I am a citizen of a country that isn´t a member. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, DUS said:

That´s interesting! Can you link to a few examples of that happening, please! I´d really appreciate that! Thank you!

I am not going to go on a google-search / research project of this board to prove it.  If you haven't seen it, you haven't been paying attention. 

[DUS]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I am not going to go on a google-search / research project of this board to prove it.  If you haven't seen it, you haven't been paying attention. 

Ok.... fair enough. I just discard your excuse for the "bashers" then.....  

Edited May 9, 2017 by DUS

[anotheruser]

You can almost tell the passing seasons from this thread. Every 3 months or so somebody discovers this thread and rehashes everything said in the first 20 pages. A handful of people seem interested in the program and then you get "that" guy who feels it is his life's duty to save people from paying for one.

 

As far as the bashing in other threads goes, sometimes it is funny to see the arguments here... and then go into another thread and see that guy's plan. Piecing 6 back to back VE stamps together, he has done his two land crossings, been too Malaysia, PP, Savanneket, VTE, and Bali. Now he is looking if the embassy in Ulaan Bataar will issue a visa to a passport full of funky stamps.

 

Suggestions range from faking his own death and getting another passport to overstaying. Even at 100,000K a year which is the most expensive TE it isn't expensive unless you simply put a really low price on your time. Especially if you are under 50 or not married. 

 

I have already pretty much recouped a lot of money I paid just having one for a year. I am estimating my break even would be two years. If I had to make even one trip back home to the USA to get a ME that's going to cost me more than $3,000. It simply doesn't make sense.

[richard_smith237]

On 5/7/2017 at 10:50 AM, midas said:

"  I'm not so sure the program went broke "

 

You can use whatever description you choose but I don't know how else you would describe a company closing down because it had a debt burden of more than 1.4 billion baht.

 

I don't see the value of all those perks myself and I would prefer to pay for things like that if I actually need them. Had I not been able to get my retirement visa so easily and inexpensively I still wouldn't have succumbed to that scheme. I am highly suspicious of any organisation that demands their money in a lump-sum upfront because it doesn't give you the confidence that they have plan to be around in the long term. I mean American Express doesn't charge me a lump-sum for my Platinum card.

 

 

 

 

erm... if the Elite Program had been closed down in June, 2011 what are we discussing in this thread?

 

 

[DUS]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

erm... if the Elite Program had been closed down in June, 2011 what are we discussing in this thread?

 

 

It wasn´t really ... ;-)))

[scubascuba3]

Why I for one will be using the TE scheme.

1.            I can afford to do so
2.            I do not want any hassle when transiting through or entering Thailand via airports.
3.            I like the idea of being reminded and helped with my 90 day reporting
4.            I only have to renew my visa every five years and the paperwork is organised for me
5.            They will organise the obtaining of my Thai driving license
6.            They will organise the obtaining of my residency certificate

 
I do not care about golf, massages, courtesy lemo's or any other value added service. I only want an easy, stress free life.
I am sorry if this offends those who have to do all of this themselves but this is my (along with thousands of others) choice. I do not criticise anyone for how they stay in Thailand or how they organise their lives.

Good for you. BTW residency cert is 300 baht at immigration. Thai driving licence around 500 baht, both are a doddle, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[DUS]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Good for you. BTW residency cert is 300 baht at immigration. Thai driving licence around 500 baht, both are a doddle, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

I have the feeling Flustered´s focus isn´t really on getting everything as cheaply but on as conveniently as possible.

 

Nonetheless, it is good to hear your first hand experience on getting the cert as well as the license. So I give your comment a "LIKE" thumbs up ....

[midas]

37 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

erm... if the Elite Program had been closed down in June, 2011 what are we discussing in this thread?

 

 

But you can hardly claim the problem is anywhere near to being over when they’re still carrying a loss of 830 million baht?

I firmly believe the trend is going in the opposite direction and they will find it struggle to get another 400 members.

I have just been reading a thread in which long time TV member “ Mobi “ is saying goodbye to Thailand after 15 years and I am astonished at how many other long-time members have posted contributions in that thread  admitting they and their friends are also leaving.    

I think Thailand is losing its appeal to many people. Just as an example if you read the two expat forums they have in Cambodia you don’t read even half the weird stuff that you do on this forum.  

[DUS]

9 minutes ago, midas said:

I have just been reading a thread in which long time TV member “ Mobi “ is saying goodbye to Thailand after 15 years and I am astonished at how many other long-time members have posted contributions in that thread  admitting they and their friends are also leaving.    

I think Thailand is losing its appeal to many people. Just as an example if you read the two expat forums they have in Cambodia you don’t read even half the weird stuff that you do on this forum.  

 

That´s true, you do read quite a bit about long-timers leaving LoS. But at the same time you cannot avoid reading "Hey, I am coming to TH soon" threads almost daily on TV either. But a few posts on TV certainly aren´t conclusive enough to say whether that means net immigration or net emigration from Thailand.

 

As for the Cambodia forums: given that Cambodia has significantly fewer expats than TH I am not sure that it is a meaningful comparison. Maybe it is, but I just don´t see it that way. 

 

That said, that´s probably a topic for a separate thread and not for the TE thread.

[Lovethailandelite]

23 minutes ago, midas said:

But you can hardly claim the problem is anywhere near to being over when they’re still carrying a loss of 830 million baht?

I firmly believe the trend is going in the opposite direction and they will find it struggle to get another 400 members.

I have just been reading a thread in which long time TV member “ Mobi “ is saying goodbye to Thailand after 15 years and I am astonished at how many other long-time members have posted contributions in that thread  admitting they and their friends are also leaving.    

I think Thailand is losing its appeal to many people. Just as an example if you read the two expat forums they have in Cambodia you don’t read even half the weird stuff that you do on this forum.  

How quickly would you estimate the membership would grow if the TE program in say 12 months time, was the only option for those under 50, those applying for retirement extensions for the first time and anybody not married to a Thai National to stay in LOS on a long term basis?
As for Mobi, Mobi has run out of money. Most choose not to have 6 wives to lose it and others choose not to drink it away as some do. As fast as people leave, others arrive. That has never been any different.
With road shows going ahead all over the world, and TAT being the sole shareholder the programme will not be allowed to be seen to fail for paid up members. Yes, you could lose the perks but the visas are already paid for and it costs nothing for immigration to put a sticker in your passport every 5 years.

[anotheruser]

15 minutes ago, DUS said:

 

That´s true, you do read quite a bit about long-timers leaving LoS. But at the same time you cannot avoid reading "Hey, I am coming to TH soon" threads almost daily on TV either. But a few posts on TV certainly aren´t conclusive enough to say whether that means net immigration or net emigration from Thailand.

 

As for the Cambodia forums: given that Cambodia has significantly fewer expats than TH I am not sure that it is a meaningful comparison. Maybe it is, but I just don´t see it that way. 

 

That said, that´s probably a topic for a separate thread and not for the TE thread.

You read all kinds of crazy stuff in the Cambodian forums. It could be argued Cambodia is one of the few places that make Thailand look sane. 

 

As far as old timers leaving I am not aware of one of them that had a TE. Different demographic and never target customers of TE. TE customers mostly seem to be a little younger and not married with families. Most of the people leaving have been through a few marriages, businesses, are in bad health etc. 

 

Will new people come in sufficient numbers to keep TE going? Who knows? If people no longer find Thailand a desirable place to live or retire what the visa options are become largely irrelevant. 

 

The fact I plan to repatriate in 6 months makes me care less though. :) I may be the first TE member to leave in spite of having a valid long term visa. I have no reason to believe if I decided to come back in 3 years my visa wouldn't be honored. 

 

 

 

 

[BritTim]

6 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

Will new people come in sufficient numbers to keep TE going? Who knows? If people no longer find Thailand a desirable place to live or retire what the visa options are become largely irrelevant. 

 

My own sense is that Thailand has become a little less attractive for Westerners considering long term residence. It does not matter. The future of the TE program lies elsewhere. When thinking of the Chinese, people here think of the obnoxious tour groups with people who have never traveled outside China before in their lives. Those are not the Chinese buying up property all over Thailand right now. Those investors may only visit Thailand for a week 6-8 times a year, but applying for visas is a pain, and the Thailand Elite program costs petty cash for those guys. Most new memberships will be from those in Asia. As far as Westerners are concerned, those who have existing 5-year memberships will often choose to renew as they expire. All the evidence is that they are happy with what they have received, and unwilling to settle for a lower level of convenience going forward.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

My own sense is that Thailand has become a little less attractive for Westerners considering long term residence. It does not matter. The future of the TE program lies elsewhere. When thinking of the Chinese, people here think of the obnoxious tour groups with people who have never traveled outside China before in their lives. Those are not the Chinese buying up property all over Thailand right now. Those investors may only visit Thailand for a week 6-8 times a year, but applying for visas is a pain, and the Thailand Elite program costs petty cash for those guys. Most new memberships will be from those in Asia. As far as Westerners are concerned, those who have existing 5-year memberships will often choose to renew as they expire. All the evidence is that they are happy with what they have received, and unwilling to settle for a lower level of convenience going forward.

The roadshows are due to push forward into Korea and India which is particularly seen as a very lucrative and growing market for travellers to Thailand.The first was in London last month.

[anotheruser]

6 minutes ago, BritTim said:

My own sense is that Thailand has become a little less attractive for Westerners considering long term residence. It does not matter. The future of the TE program lies elsewhere. When thinking of the Chinese, people here think of the obnoxious tour groups with people who have never traveled outside China before in their lives. Those are not the Chinese buying up property all over Thailand right now. Those investors may only visit Thailand for a week 6-8 times a year, but applying for visas is a pain, and the Thailand Elite program costs petty cash for those guys. Most new memberships will be from those in Asia. As far as Westerners are concerned, those who have existing 5-year memberships will often choose to renew as they expire. All the evidence is that they are happy with what they have received, and unwilling to settle for a lower level of convenience going forward.

This is pretty much on point. The TE crowd will simply go somewhere else if they tire of Thailand. Many of those in the market for a TEV consider it a financial pin prick. Even I felt I got okay value out of even having it a little over a year. The cost of the visa doesn't influence my plans as to where I am going to live. It is/was a useful thing to have in Thailand.

 

If for some reason TE closed tomorrow and my visa was declared invalid it would hurt Thailand more than my bottom line. If 500K is so much you consider it a life changing sum then this program isn't designed for you. I would be surprised if most TE members buy one because they plan to live in Thailand until they die. TE members have enough money to come and go I don't think they worry about squeezing every penny out of it. 

 

 

 

 

[midas]

36 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

How quickly would you estimate the membership would grow if the TE program in say 12 months time, was the only option for those under 50, those applying for retirement extensions for the first time and anybody not married to a Thai National to stay in LOS on a long term basis?
As for Mobi, Mobi has run out of money. Most choose not to have 6 wives to lose it and others choose not to drink it away as some do. As fast as people leave, others arrive. That has never been any different.
With road shows going ahead all over the world, and TAT being the sole shareholder the programme will not be allowed to be seen to fail for paid up members. Yes, you could lose the perks but the visas are already paid for and it costs nothing for immigration to put a sticker in your passport every 5 years.

 

"  road shows going ahead all over the world "

 

road shows  around the world?  that isnt going to do much to bring down the 830 million baht loss

[Lovethailandelite]

9 minutes ago, midas said:

 

"  road shows going ahead all over the world "

 

road shows  around the world?  that isnt going to do much to bring down the 830 million baht loss

You obviously have little idea how hands on and direct advertising to a particular market works so there s little point in attempting to explain it to you. Lets just say that the places they are held and the market they are aimed at, you would mostly likely not get an invite. Be assured, they are not held in church hall on a Saturday morning and played to the Thomas Cook traveller.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Lovethailandelite