Is the Cityline being over loaded?

[drronnie]

There seems to be problems with the Cityline very other day. Yesterday I managed to get answer. They said that the tracks are overburdened and need to get an overhaul. This is not good, I see the trains being overloaded so no wonder why the system goes bust.

[asiaexpat]

Much like the BTS, the City Line is usually over capacity in the morning rush hour and in the evening from 4 to 9PM. The structural capacity of the cars as well as the track will undoubtedly be considered after a major accident occurs. This is the way safety is done in Thailand. 

[gdgbb]

2 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

Much like the BTS, the City Line is usually over capacity in the morning rush hour and in the evening from 4 to 9PM. The structural capacity of the cars as well as the track will undoubtedly be considered after a major accident occurs. This is the way safety is done in Thailand. 

 

Over capacity, really?  So what are the maximum capacity regulations for the Skytrain and the City Line? 

[Thian]

The word "overloaded" does not exist in Thailand....it means the same as "more money" and of course they need that.

[gdgbb]

6 minutes ago, Thian said:

The word "overloaded" does not exist in Thailand....it means the same as "more money" and of course they need that.

 

Ho hum...

[lamyai3]

17 hours ago, gdgbb said:

 

Over capacity, really?  So what are the maximum capacity regulations for the Skytrain and the City Line? 

 

The point at which the weight of the passengers on board exceeds the capability of the train to leave the  platform... 

Edited August 3, 2016 by lamyai3

[bkkcanuck8]

On 2016-08-04 at 3:57 AM, lamyai3 said:

 

The point at which the weight of the passengers on board exceeds the capability of the train to leave the  platform... 

I have never heard the engineering concept of a subway or skytrain car being overloaded from the point of view of structural failure.  I have never seen anywhere in the world a sign posted in a car say the maximum number of passengers or weight is ... Most are designed to handle as many humans you can cram in them without people dying.  In fact in Japan they have packers who help cram more people in the cars.  (and Thais on average are lighter than westerners  )

[Thian]

2 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I have never heard the engineering concept of a subway or skytrain car being overloaded from the point of view of structural failure.  I have never seen anywhere in the world a sign posted in a car say the maximum number of passengers or weight is ... Most are designed to handle as many humans you can cram in them without people dying.  In fact in Japan they have packers who help cram more people in the cars.  (and Thais on average are lighter than westerners  )

 

If i have to choose between overloaded trains made in Japan or Thailand i sure  know which one to pick.

 

I like it when the wheels of the skytrain scream it out in a corner. They make that noise because they're so happy 

 

[mike324]

I remember back a year or so, they said the Cityline's normal maintenance is long overdue due to budget issues.... they say it costs over 10,000 baht to service each passenger from the terminal if passengers are checking in from the makkasan station.

[siam2007]

if the Cityline trains would run more frequently, a lot of problems would be solved. But then again - you can not get new carriages for free, so chances are this will not happen anytime soon

[asiaexpat]

13 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I have never heard the engineering concept of a subway or skytrain car being overloaded from the point of view of structural failure.  I have never seen anywhere in the world a sign posted in a car say the maximum number of passengers or weight is ... Most are designed to handle as many humans you can cram in them without people dying.  In fact in Japan they have packers who help cram more people in the cars.  (and Thais on average are lighter than westerners  )

All forms of commercial  transport have specifications that describe capacities. These are for the ARL as published by Siemans. 

Technical Data

Train configuration Wheel arrangement Carbody material Track gauge

Length over couplers
Width of car
Floor height above top of rail
Wheel diameter new / worn
Tare weight / total weight
Max. axle load
Number of seats
Train capacity 6 pers./m2
Passenger doors per car
Min. curve radius, service line / depot Max. gradient
Max. speed
Max. starting acceleration Deceleration service brake
Power supply

MC+T+MC Bo‘Bo‘+2‘2‘+Bo‘Bo‘ Stainless steel 1,435 mm 65,100 mm 3,200 mm

1,150 mm
850 mm / 775 mm 102.5 t / 155 t
14.5 t
126
846
2 x 4
87.5 m
3.5 %
80 km/h
1.1 m/s2
1.1 m/s2
750 V DC / Third rail 

[gdgbb]

11 hours ago, Thian said:

If i have to choose between overloaded trains made in Japan or Thailand i sure  know which one to pick.

 

ARL, BTS or MRT trains are not made in Thailand.

[gdgbb]

40 minutes ago, mike324 said:

I remember back a year or so, they said the Cityline's normal maintenance is long overdue due to budget issues.... they say it costs over 10,000 baht to service each passenger from the terminal if passengers are checking in from the makkasan station.

 

But passengers don't check in at Makkasan any longer.

[mike324]

37 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

 

But passengers don't check in at Makkasan any longer.

 

I never use it, didn't know that. So I guess they closed down the Makkasan check in counters since hardly anybody uses it.... but still not enough people take the citylink, which is another main reason for budget issue

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, mike324 said:

I remember back a year or so, they said the Cityline's normal maintenance is long overdue due to budget issues.... they say it costs over 10,000 baht to service each passenger from the terminal if passengers are checking in from the makkasan station.

10,000 baht for each city line passenger or each airport line passenger?  The airport line costed too much and a majority of people ended up using city line which takes a few minutes longer and has extra stops.... (same tracks)

[bkkcanuck8]

57 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

 

But passengers don't check in at Makkasan any longer.

 

Last time I took the makkasan line (city line) did not have very long queues but there were usually lots of people on the platform waiting for the city line train to arrive.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, asiaexpat said:

All forms of commercial  transport have specifications that describe capacities. These are for the ARL as published by Siemans. 

 

Yes the specs have limits, but there is no need to limit the number of passengers boarding the train since they far exceed what is typically humanly possible.  6 people per square meter....   You would literally have to stack people on top of each other.

[mike324]

2 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

10,000 baht for each city line passenger or each airport line passenger?  The airport line costed too much and a majority of people ended up using city line which takes a few minutes longer and has extra stops.... (same tracks)

 

10,000 baht was in reference to servicing passengers that check in there. Not for passengers that only take the trains.

[sweetrogue]

The ARL was a dog's dinner in its conception, its construction and its execution and now it, and its long suffering users, are paying the price. The first world of efficient, well-planned communications meets the third world of indifferent and lackadaisical maintenance in projects such as these. It takes a generation or two to alter the mind set. 

[Roota]

20 hours ago, Thian said:

If i have to choose between overloaded trains made in Japan or Thailand i sure  know which one to pick.

Not a choice you have to make as the rolling stock here is imported. The issue here is track maintenance, and it's true that preventative maintenance is not exactly a Thai specialty. Though to be fair, Japanese outfits like TEPCO have proven no better at it.

[teatree]

20 hours ago, mike324 said:

 

I never use it, didn't know that. So I guess they closed down the Makkasan check in counters since hardly anybody uses it.... but still not enough people take the citylink, which is another main reason for budget issue

Not enough people?  You obviously have not used it during peak times when it is absolutely rammed!  Even at off peak times it is getting busier and busier.

 

The Cityline is in dire need of investment of more trains.

[gdgbb]

On 11/08/2016 at 11:54 AM, bkkcanuck8 said:

 

Yes the specs have limits, but there is no need to limit the number of passengers boarding the train since they far exceed what is typically humanly possible.  6 people per square meter....   You would literally have to stack people on top of each other.

 

No, that wouldn't be necessary literally, neither would it be possible literally.  It may be possible figuratively though.

[gdgbb]

On 11/08/2016 at 11:51 AM, bkkcanuck8 said:

 

Last time I took the makkasan line (city line) did not have very long queues but there were usually lots of people on the platform waiting for the city line train to arrive.

 

But none of them could have been air passengers checking in at Makkasan because that facility doesn't exist now.

[gdgbb]

17 hours ago, sweetrogue said:

The ARL was a dog's dinner in its conception, its construction and its execution and now it, and its long suffering users, are paying the price. The first world of efficient, well-planned communications meets the third world of indifferent and lackadaisical maintenance in projects such as these. It takes a generation or two to alter the mind set. 

 

How can a reliable, cheap, efficient and quick rail service that has been almost incident-free for 6 years ever be considered a dog's dinner?

[mike324]

On 8/12/2016 at 7:35 AM, teatree said:

Not enough people?  You obviously have not used it during peak times when it is absolutely rammed!  Even at off peak times it is getting busier and busier.

 

The Cityline is in dire need of investment of more trains.

 

Yes I've only used it a couple times when it first open. I believe its packed during peak times because many workers also take that to go to work, yes its getting busier and busier during off peak times...the problem is still budget issues, they don't even have enough budget to maintian the trains let alone buy new ones....plain bad management

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, mike324 said:

 

Yes I've only used it a couple times when it first open. I believe its packed during peak times because many workers also take that to go to work, yes its getting busier and busier during off peak times...the problem is still budget issues, they don't even have enough budget to maintian the trains let alone buy new ones....plain bad management

Are the prices that low then, it being packed a lot and so many people why can't they set aside enough for maintenance ?

[mike324]

59 minutes ago, robblok said:

Are the prices that low then, it being packed a lot and so many people why can't they set aside enough for maintenance ?

 

Its packed mostly during rush hour only, yes short trips does not cost a lot. Big projects like this needs constant flow of riders during all hours of the day to turn a profit ...the other reason could simply be corruption

[gdgbb]

2 hours ago, mike324 said:

 

Yes I've only used it a couple times when it first open. I believe its packed during peak times because many workers also take that to go to work, yes its getting busier and busier during off peak times...the problem is still budget issues, they don't even have enough budget to maintian the trains let alone buy new ones....plain bad management

 

Why are you saying that there is not even enough money for maintenance for currently running trains, where did you get that information?

[gdgbb]

1 hour ago, mike324 said:

 

Its packed mostly during rush hour only, yes short trips does not cost a lot. Big projects like this needs constant flow of riders during all hours of the day to turn a profit ...the other reason could simply be corruption

 

...or, much more likely, your claim about a lack of maintenance budget has no merit.  Unless you can back up your allegation, of course.