Which Immigration Offices Follow the Rules, Which Don't?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

Wayned's confirmation that Nakhon Sawan limit the maximum validity period for Embassy income letters/affidavits to 30 days. They also appear to be another office who levy an unofficial charge for residence certificates.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting Wayned's thread re Nakhon Sawan Immigration. He actually has a favorable overall view of the office and its staff there, despite their by his account charging 500b for the residency certificate and giving a short time for the income letters back in 2014 at the time of that thread.

 

In my view, those latter two issues are pretty much breaking the rules, especially when there's a clear national Immigration policy, I believe, that the income letters are supposed to be good for 6 months.

 

But IMHO, the main issue about where to slot the Nakhon Sawan Immigration Office in this thread is the currency of that info. 2014 vs. now in 2016 is a lifetime when it comes to turnover and changes in a Thai government office.

 

It would be helpful if someone familiar with the office could post on their policies NOW, as regards the residency certificate fees, income letters duration and any other related issues.

 

 

 

[thai3]

26 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There was one prior pretty negative post in this thread thus far re Samut Prakan, but it appeared to be for a business-oriented transaction vs. a marriage or retirement extension.

 

How about your experience with Samut Prakan?

 

 

 

2008 after going over my extension application was told I had gone too early (not) and to come back in 2 weeks. As I was leaving the officer said no go to Suan Phlu as they did not really do extensions there. When I mentioned the sign that said they did and questioned why they had the forms she was quite rude. Moved just after anyway so did not have to deal with her again. it has improved since then.

[recom273]

As you requested Southern input.

 

I'm not a lover of my local .. Hat Yai.

 

Too many officious ball busters, my wife ( who isn't local ) considers them quite rude in the way they speak to her. I have also seen them throw passports and photocopies back at people, they seem to have very little time for people who don't speak Thai or English. 

 

They seem to make their own interpretations of rules and procedures. They will issue a free certificate of residence, but its a different procedure to the norm, you need to have a written request from the government authority or bank first.

 

They seem to mostly issue receipts for payment, but I think tourism is just a small part of their concern, there are probably bigger pickings from the migrant workers in local industry.

 

I avoid visiting at all costs. Just my experience - others say, that they can be 'alright' or fair but never described as really helpful.

Edited August 11, 2016 by recom273

[OJAS]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thanks for posting Wayned's thread re Nakhon Sawan Immigration. He actually has a favorable overall view of the office and its staff there, despite their by his account charging 500b for the residency certificate and giving a short time for the income letters back in 2014 at the time of that thread.

 

In my view, those latter two issues are pretty much breaking the rules, especially when there's a clear national Immigration policy, I believe, that the income letters are supposed to be good for 6 months.

 

But IMHO, the main issue about where to slot the Nakhon Sawan Immigration Office in this thread is the currency of that info. 2014 vs. now in 2016 is a lifetime when it comes to turnover and changes in a Thai government office.

 

It would be helpful if someone familiar with the office could post on their policies NOW, as regards the residency certificate fees, income letters duration and any other related issues.

 

 

 

 

See Wayned's posting at #12 on this thread:

 

He asked again last year and was told that the maximum validity period for Embassy letters was still 30 days. Since his annual extension appears to fall due for renewal in October we shall probably need to wait at least 2 months for any further report from him. But the fact that this local rule has been in force for at least 2 years would appear to indicate that it probably still is in 2016.

 

 

[Liquorice]

Amnat Chareon.

Quite strict with rules and documentation.

One of the few offices that request a Medical Certificate for Retirement extensions.

Helpful to those who don't appear to know what's required.

Never had any issues with 90 day reports in person, mail or online.

Never experienced or heard of any requests for 'tea' money.

No complaints.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Faz, any other oddities at Amnat, other than the med certificate demand for retirement extensions??

Strict within the normal rules, or strict beyond them?
 

Otherwise, pretty much mainstream and consistent/predictable?

Edited August 11, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Liquorice]

Strict within the normal rules.

Same consistency for documentation for the 3 years I've dealt with them.

 

We run an expats Newsletter in Roi Et with over 120 subscribers.

Immigration issues are regularly discussed, but never an actual complaint about the service at Amnat.

We have a new Immigration office just opened in Roi Et but not yet fully functional. Only doing 90 day reports and Change of Address at the moment, so to early to comment on this office yet.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Faz

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Review of the Krabi Immigration Office:

Quote

 

Small office, seem to operate reasonably efficiently (by Thai standards)

Follow the rules (no questionaire yet as far as I know) but seem able to turn things around quicker than most e.g. residence certificate 30 minutes, 90 day report 5 minutes etc.

As with every Government office, poor dress sense, visible irritation or complaining will get you a long wait, but this office is far better than the other offices I have used (Phuket, Hatyai & Bangkok)

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And another for the Hatyai Office:

 

Quote

 

Hatyai:    Recent switch from Marriage to Retirement visa experience in Hatyai finds them following the rules to the letter, even to the extent they visited my home (normally something down for Marriage Visa, but in the 8 years I had one of those they never visited).  Change due to no more work requirement in Thailand.

 

The immigration staff has changed a lot over the last 17 years and are more courteous and helpful.  If anything they can occasionally be short of 'signing' people and may require a person to come back another day.   PaolaR comments re dress, complaining, etc is very true here.  Don't let your yourself or your country down by being impatient and irritable ... I know, for some folks a big ask.  

 

Also advise folks with Thai partners to take them along and train them up re which ever process is being applied for... English is not spoken by all officers and not well by those who do, with one exception.

 

As a group of expats here we combine notes and endeavour to help both ourselves and Immigration to settle on a common checklist of requirements for various visas.  A retirement visa checklist is taking shape thanks to other long term expats.  They are also looking at the use of a one page form to replace the recent five page requirement.

 

 

[sotsira]

On 8 August 2016 at 10:37 PM, elviajero said:

That explains the 19,000 fee.

Because you entered with a tourist visa you had to have it converted to a non 'O' visa/entry before the extension of stay could be applied for. This is usually only done in Bangkok. I don't know how it works or who gets paid, but you paid a fee for this service/process so you didn't need to go on two trips to Bangkok immigration.

Not entirely correct because the applicant submitted the conversion at Jomtien office which does accept change of visa applications and should have been charged 2000bt.

Followed on a month later with 1900bt for the extension.

So in effect the applicant was overcharged by 15100bt.

[OJAS]

On 8/11/2016 at 0:57 PM, OJAS said:

Although Ayuthaya have not yet been mentioned in this thread I wonder whether there might be a case for their inclusion in your top category in the light of yesterday's disturbing report on here about their insistence on MFA verification of Embassy income confirmation letter/affidavit signatures?

 

 

On 8/11/2016 at 1:58 PM, OJAS said:

 

Hua Hin appear to be another rogue office insisting on MFA verification of Embassy income letters/affidavits to boot:-

 

 

 

A third rogue office (Rai Khing) insisting on MFA verification of Embassy income confirmation letters/affidavits referred to in this thread:-

 

[Scotwight]

It would be easy to fix the problem.  Thai Visa is an important international news source in Thailand.  If they ran a story titled "Rogue Immigration offices hurt tourism and foreign investment and spending"  The practices would get fixed in a hurry.

[al007]

Which offices follow the rules

 

Which rules is more the question

 

I have yet to see a definitive list of exactly what is required, if immigration produced one it would make both the offices and the customers life so much easier

 

Page one is the list and you tick off each item, if you do not have them old OK no extension, but at least we are not bobby trapped at the end, which has happened to me many times. despite being very careful to see I have everything correctly completed

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Scotwight said:

It would be easy to fix the problem.  Thai Visa is an important international news source in Thailand.  If they ran a story titled "Rogue Immigration offices hurt tourism and foreign investment and spending"  The practices would get fixed in a hurry.

 

ThaiVisa also recently reposted a news report supposedly quoting the commanding general of the Immigration Bureau threatening that Immigration officers who engage in corruption or try to extort unlawful fees would face prosecution and jail sentences.

 

How's that "campaign" going??? 

[malagateddy]

Living in the Chaiyaphum area, Khon Kaen is my Immigraion home until the new Chaiyaphum I O opens .

 

I can honestly say that it's a pleasure to re-new my retirement extension/90 day reporting etc. at Khon Kaen.

 

You present yourself clean and tidy, be mannerly and polite, have the correct relevant p/work... NO PROBLEMS.

[tutsiwarrior]

it's distressing to hear about the rogue IO at the Ayudtthaya immigration office (MFA verification of US embassy letter), I've been going there for years with no problems...

 

someone mentioned that there is a new office in Suphanburi?...that will be my new office I reckon...anybody got any news/reports good or bad? where can I get their details (link)?

[soalbundy]

On 8/11/2016 at 11:45 AM, OJAS said:

 

Suspect that Kap Choeng need to be added to your first category since they have also been putting retirement extension applications under consideration for 30 days, I gather.

 

Also not sure about the inclusion of Nakhon Sawan in your third category since I recall from reports from wayned (whose local office I gather they are) that they limit the maximum validity period for Embassy income letters/affidavits to 30 days.

 

It is true what you write about Kap Choeng's under consideration policy but apart from that i have found them to be a very friendly crowd,never had an issue with them quite the contrary i have found them to be very helpful

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

It is true what you write about Kap Choeng's under consideration policy but apart from that i have found them to be a very friendly crowd,never had an issue with them quite the contrary i have found them to be very helpful

 

It's possible that Kap Choeng don't have a Senior Officer to sign off retirement extensions, hence they have to be sent to regional office.

That wouldn't necessarily make them a rouge office under those circumstances.

[4evermaat]

On 8/9/2016 at 1:48 PM, NancyL said:

Well yes, many CM expat retirees rationalize that it's just once a year (90 day reports usually aren't a big problem -- mail-in works OK most of the time, as does on-line) or that it's "just" 3000 baht above the gov't fees for the visa "agent" next to the immigration office at Promenada mall for priority service for a retirement extension.  If someone can't spare 3000 baht once a year, then should they really be living in overseas, right?

 

Of course, that attitude overlooks that this special fee isn't needed anywhere else in Thailand for retirees to have a humane level of service and in paying the fee, a retiree is just fueling the machine and Imm. has no incentive to improve the service level to those who choose not to play the game.  Just the opposite.

 

 

On 8/9/2016 at 2:42 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's this aspect of the situation that I find especially offensive, and why I'd be hard-pressed to find myself agreeing to be part of it. If that was my choice, I'd rather move. Not for the couple thousand baht  cost, but for the principle of the thing. But, that's my choice, my priorities. I'm just glad that here in BKK,, at least thus far, I don't have to make that choice.

 

 

I agree with both of you to a point.  I can understand if the request was special or unique in some way that required the extra fee.   But the overwhelming majority of the reports are about people requesting regular service (things immigration office are supposed to do as a regular part of their job: process extension requests, certificate of residence, et. al.).  They should not have to pay extra for ordinary service.  Seems like particularly the Chiang Mai office is going out of their way to make ordinary service difficult to obtain (20 apps/day max making people queue up at 3-4am), yet the express service at a nearby just so happens to get processed very quickly and magically there are unlimited app slots.

 

Now in regards to extra fees.  This would apply if something "special" or added service is being done.  If you needed expedited service, or needed certain documents to be authenticated, retrieved, waived, etc that you did not have.  Penang is a good example (visas, not extensions, but it illustrates the point).  You can go to the Penang Thai Consulate yourself in the morning with all documentation and get next business day afternoon service, FREE.  You can also use an agent:  generally the same paperwork, but you do not have to physically present yourself to the embassy.  There is an additional fee that is likely split between the runner and the Consulate bosses.  They get to process many more applications (and faster), the customer can go about their normal business....everyone seems to win.

 

The customer has to weigh out whether it is easier or most practical to use the agent at additional cost or do it themselves for the regular price.  I do admit, that I might pay extra for a paperwork-friendly method in some cases.  As a man, I can appreciate paying for a less/no-nonsense way to get what I am ultimately after, without any extra bs  , if the price is reasonable.

______

 

Some of these expats have spent 1+ million baht on homes, furnishings, vehicles, weddings, etc.  I can understand it rubs people the wrong way when they are going to immigration and are given a runaround or set up for a confidence trick for otherwise routine service.

 

Now with marriage extensions, it would be more difficult if not impossible to pick a different immigration office than what is covered in your home area if they come to visit you at your home, take photos, etc every year.  But retirement extension might be easier to have a temporary residence and then just do extension at the appropriate immigration office for that region.  

 

Is Chumphon imm office become completely rogue or is it due to a temporary mixup as the new supervisor gets settled in?  We will have to wait and see. It's a pretty recent development.  I haven't yet heard of anyone's retirement extension request being rejected.  They may have to wait, but they are not being rejected outright [yet].

 

 

On 8/11/2016 at 4:59 AM, Maestro said:

With very few exceptions, all immigration offices follow the rules. One exception, for example, is that some offices ask for a medical certificate with an application for a retirement extension.

 

Some rules allow immigration offices various ways of implementation, eg the rule "In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto" with an application for a marriage extension. For the "de facto" part, some offices make visits to the applicant's residence and perhaps interview neighbours, other offices ask the applicant to bring witnesses to the office, etc.

 

I do think based especially on very recent reports of new immigration offices requesting new documentation, that rules are indeed subjective.  But of course for an additional fee you can get near instant processing of extension of stay application, certificate of residence, etc.

 

Where it gets irritating is when an immigration office intentionally makes it difficult to process an application unless the extra money is paid.  In other words, the extra money is expected just for normal processing (which is supposed to be fairly instant for retirement extensions, certificate of residence, etc.)

 

I was shocked that Chumphon had been requesting additional documents.  These are people who have been doing consecutive extensions previously for 3-5+ years.   Now you could say it is due to a new immigration boss.  But

a) does that matter who is in charge?

b. why the extra fee request or suggestion that it can be processed faster or with less difficulty? 

 

On 8/11/2016 at 8:36 AM, hdkane said:

........

I have been to the same office, and the office manager told me in very good English and with no discretion that a visa would cost me 30,000 THB...when I told her I had the required money in the bank, her price dropped to 10,000...I try not to deal with immigration personally, except to do 90 day reporting...anything more complicated or time sensitive I find a Thai who can represent me...I know that many readers here enjoy handling their own matters and they are successful...I hope to acquire that skill set eventually...r

 

Did you actually pay the 10k?  Or was it just the 1,900?  Is there any reason for such a high price for an extension, unless using an agent or missing documentation?

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, Faz said:

 

It's possible that Kap Choeng don't have a Senior Officer to sign off retirement extensions, hence they have to be sent to regional office.

That wouldn't necessarily make them a rouge office under those circumstances.

 

But I have a distinct recollection of reading on here that they are prepared to issue a retirement extension on the spot for a further unofficial fee (which, unfortunately, the dreaded search facility is unable to unearth for some reason). If true, this does definitely make them a rogue office, I would have thought.

 

soalbundy - do you know whether or not this is, indeed, the case?

[OJAS]

On 8/12/2016 at 5:04 PM, OJAS said:

 

 

A third rogue office (Rai Khing) insisting on MFA verification of Embassy income confirmation letters/affidavits referred to in this thread:-

 

 

And now a fourth rogue office (Nonthaburi) - see post #3 in the following thread:-

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

 

And now a fourth rogue office (Nonthaburi) - see post #3 in the following thread:-

 

 

Yes, and the same poster -- although only one report thus far in the thread -- is also saying that the same office doesn't want to accept fixed deposit accounts for purposes of meeting the retirement extension bank deposit requirement, because:

 

Quote

I've been there last May, and the one eyed officer told me very clearly, that the bank account must show regular money go in and out. Even you have another account were you can show that monthly more than 65 000 Baht is deposit and use that account for daily spending, was no use. This was confirmed by the Chief sitting on right om the back.

 

Be interesting to see if his report re Nonthaburi Immigration is confirmed by any other customers of that office.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the MFA certification issue for income affidavits, I do think we need to exercise some caution before jumping to broad conclusions based on limited numbers of posts/reports. Just because it happened to one member or a few members doesn't necessarily mean it's happening to everyone, even at the same Immigration Office.

 

Based on the initial reports out of Hua Hin Immigration, it seems that office may be asking for MFA certification for income letters from some nationality consulates, but not necessarily from all. Or, they may be asking for MFA certification from all.

 

If you read thru all the posts in the thread on that subject at HH Immigration, the overall impression, based on a very limits number of reports, is that the MFA certification is being required for some nationalities, but not all. One poster, apparently a Brit, says in post #15 in that thread specifically says he did a retirement extension at HH recently with no MFA cert required.

 

 

AFAICT from reading the various reports/posts on the subject thus far, there just hasn't been enough confirmation/clarification as yet as to how widely and to what extent the MFA certification is being done. For example, I haven't seen a single such report as yet regarding this coming from Chaengwattana Immigration in BKK, which of course is the headquarters office.

 

And it wouldn't be appropriate to start reporting here that a particular Immigration office has a policy to do this or that, solely based on a post by a single member, without some broader confirmation.

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[hdkane]

On 8/13/2016 at 10:55 PM, 4evermaat said:

 

 

I agree with both of you to a point.  I can understand if the request was special or unique in some way that required the extra fee.   But the overwhelming majority of the reports are about people requesting regular service (things immigration office are supposed to do as a regular part of their job: process extension requests, certificate of residence, et. al.).  They should not have to pay extra for ordinary service.  Seems like particularly the Chiang Mai office is going out of their way to make ordinary service difficult to obtain (20 apps/day max making people queue up at 3-4am), yet the express service at a nearby just so happens to get processed very quickly and magically there are unlimited app slots.

 

Now in regards to extra fees.  This would apply if something "special" or added service is being done.  If you needed expedited service, or needed certain documents to be authenticated, retrieved, waived, etc that you did not have.  Penang is a good example (visas, not extensions, but it illustrates the point).  You can go to the Penang Thai Consulate yourself in the morning with all documentation and get next business day afternoon service, FREE.  You can also use an agent:  generally the same paperwork, but you do not have to physically present yourself to the embassy.  There is an additional fee that is likely split between the runner and the Consulate bosses.  They get to process many more applications (and faster), the customer can go about their normal business....everyone seems to win.

 

The customer has to weigh out whether it is easier or most practical to use the agent at additional cost or do it themselves for the regular price.  I do admit, that I might pay extra for a paperwork-friendly method in some cases.  As a man, I can appreciate paying for a less/no-nonsense way to get what I am ultimately after, without any extra bs  , if the price is reasonable.

______

 

Some of these expats have spent 1+ million baht on homes, furnishings, vehicles, weddings, etc.  I can understand it rubs people the wrong way when they are going to immigration and are given a runaround or set up for a confidence trick for otherwise routine service.

 

Now with marriage extensions, it would be more difficult if not impossible to pick a different immigration office than what is covered in your home area if they come to visit you at your home, take photos, etc every year.  But retirement extension might be easier to have a temporary residence and then just do extension at the appropriate immigration office for that region.  

 

Is Chumphon imm office become completely rogue or is it due to a temporary mixup as the new supervisor gets settled in?  We will have to wait and see. It's a pretty recent development.  I haven't yet heard of anyone's retirement extension request being rejected.  They may have to wait, but they are not being rejected outright [yet].

 

 

 

I do think based especially on very recent reports of new immigration offices requesting new documentation, that rules are indeed subjective.  But of course for an additional fee you can get near instant processing of extension of stay application, certificate of residence, etc.

 

Where it gets irritating is when an immigration office intentionally makes it difficult to process an application unless the extra money is paid.  In other words, the extra money is expected just for normal processing (which is supposed to be fairly instant for retirement extensions, certificate of residence, etc.)

 

I was shocked that Chumphon had been requesting additional documents.  These are people who have been doing consecutive extensions previously for 3-5+ years.   Now you could say it is due to a new immigration boss.  But

a) does that matter who is in charge?

b. why the extra fee request or suggestion that it can be processed faster or with less difficulty? 

 

 

Did you actually pay the 10k?  Or was it just the 1,900?  Is there any reason for such a high price for an extension, unless using an agent or missing documentation?

I went to an agent, as I feel uncomfortable dealing with immigration "under the table"...It cost me the same, but I felt better about the situation...I know that I'm being paranoid, because most immigration offices are solid and honest, probably...maybe it would be better if I spoke Thai or had a Thai wife...I do not know...

 

what troubles me is that a simple word from someone who may not know their job very well can simply turn my life upside down for days or much much longer...and there is little recourse, other than to try again a different day and hope for the best...I've been able to obtain my two visas, so I cannot complain too much, I guess...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just an update from today re Chaengwattana Immigration in Bangkok.

 

Went there today as an American doing my retirement extension of stay via consulate income letter and re-entry permit. Everything by the book and rules, nothing out of the ordinary, happy to report.

 

And curiously:

--This was my first in-person visit to Immigration since they began doing the "Personal Information Form." And, I wasn't asked to fill out that form anywhere during my visit, nor did I see anyone else around me with the form or in the process of filling one out.

 

--Unlike some of the oddball reports surfacing lately from outlying Immigration offices like Hua Hin, my U.S. consulate income latter was accepted without question. No request to have it certified by the MFA.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And, more confirmation of Samui Immigration making up its own requirements, including hospital medical certification:

 

 

Though of note in this thread, there's also one post by a member from Hua Hin reporting on his extension renewal, and indicating that he was NOT required to have his consulate income letter certified by the MFA.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One poster report re Phuket Immigration now requiring house photos for retirement extensions. Not yet confirmed by other posters in the same thread.

 

 

[soalbundy]

On 8/14/2016 at 8:26 AM, OJAS said:

 

But I have a distinct recollection of reading on here that they are prepared to issue a retirement extension on the spot for a further unofficial fee (which, unfortunately, the dreaded search facility is unable to unearth for some reason). If true, this does definitely make them a rogue office, I would have thought.

 

soalbundy - do you know whether or not this is, indeed, the case?

sorry, i have no idea, this was never offered to me and i wouldn't take it if it was, i have nothing to hide and if they can spare the work and time to come and see me so be it. They do appear to have a senior officer because my extension had to be signed 'by big boss'

Edited August 25, 2016 by soalbundy
extra info

[ellathai]

Anyone know about  Sakon Nakhon Immigration office as far as tm28 and tm30 goes? Have they got any rules of there own that l should know about?

 

Thanks

Bruce 

Edited February 18, 2017 by ellathai

[ubonjoe]

53 minutes ago, ellathai said:

Anyone know about  Sakon Nakhon Immigration office as far as tm28 and tm30 goes? Have they got any rules of there own that l should know about?

I just replied to another post you did. Nothing to worry about there.