Pattaya going downhill!

[luckyluke]

"no problem with opinions as long as they don't contain advice on how to change the lifestyle of others."

 

An advice is welcome, if given by someone regarded as knowledgeable or/and authoritative, but even then one is not obligate to follow it.  

[Awohalitsiktoli]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

Heck my first visit was in 2004 and that was now 12 years ago.  Change has happened faster since then, but based on my chats with friends, Big C was there, and 20 years ago in 1996 there was basically as much infrastructure then as now.  More choices now, but nothing particularly unique.  Kicking my self now for not having gone back then.  I had the means, just was not even aware of it much.

Virtually everything we actually needed to have a high quality of life was here way back in 1999.  We have seen growth in a few positive things:  Central Festival Mall (Royal Garden was fine but CFM is much better), Pastrami on Rye, Starbucks and Bangkok-Pattaya Hospital, to name a few.  We have, unfortunately, seen an explosion of stuff we really did not need:  hotels/condos (some fine but way too many now), 7-11s (I like them but too many), massage parlors, bars, Russian-Chinese tourists (too many), mentally ill Neanderthals (farangs and Thais right out of prison and/or mental wards), crime, gangs, traffic problems, air pollution, water pollution, people pollution, and noise pollution.  It would be interesting at this point for somebody to construct a poll for the following question:  Has the quality of life in Pattaya-Jomtien increased or decreased over the past ten years.   I do not think that would take us off topic, but maybe the OP is not interested in this.

[morrobay]

18 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you sure about that? We have been told for many years that the place is being developed to bring a better class of tourist, ie those that are rich. Last time I looked Thais aren't tourists in Pattaya.

I'm happy to say that they made such a cock up, what with the rubbish walkway, the collapsing marina and the non functioning car park, that it hasn't worked, and the Monte Carlo crowd are never parking their yachts in Pattaya Bay.

 

Well its because of the mess at  Bali Hi: Car park , walkway  out to lighthouse point  that is a greasy/garbage  junkyard passing by the marina disaster . Plus the so called walkway and Beach rd widening project  that was designed to accommodate mass tourism that has congested Pattaya. Along with the"' beach restoration project" The result of which is a junkyard beach and permanent trailer trash at South end , which by the way is the entrance to the cities prime tourist attraction   - That the Thais have given up on attracting  quality tourists. They finally realize  a lost cause : So they are in process of attracting domestic tourism, and yes Thais are tourists in Pattaya.

And also   increasing the Thai population in Pattaya by condo development aimed at Thais.

So sure alot of expats appreciate the new malls and can say Pattaya is going uphill.  But these  mall increases : Terminal 21, Harbor, proposed mall  at Montien location  , as well as the Bay are not going to make it without a major increase of Thais visiting and residing in Pattaya.  Basically the Thais and mass touring Chinese and Indians are oblivious to the environmental chaotic downhill environmental mess  that Pattaya has become.  Which of course includes the downhill social environment as well, thats  being made up by " domestic tourism"

Edited September 13, 2016 by morrobay
add

[Awohalitsiktoli]

14 hours ago, Naam said:

 

i agree with you but i consider the advantages outweigh by far that some of old Pattaya's charme doesn't exist anymore. if i was, like in olden times, a tourist i'd miss the charme. as a near 12-year resident in the outskirts of Pattaya i enjoy what is offered today. for example a 100mbit fiber optic connection vs. the 128k wifi offered by a fistful of hotels or internet cafés 20 years ago.

Thanks......I forgot about the improvement in internet connections.  I like modern conveniences, but I also like the "old charm" of many cities worldwide--something that is being destroyed via overdevelopment.  It seems like development is taking place for cars and not people.  The change that has taken place has both positive and negative elements. For me, the negative changes are outweighing the positives.  Still, I would not yet want to live in, say, Cambodia, where the modern conveniences that have spoiled us are not so convenient in all parts of the country.   I continue to think that development tends to go through three phases:  1) underdeveloped (Pattaya-Jomtien in the 70s and much of the 80s), 2) the golden phase (not too much or too little development) and 3) overdevelopment (where we are at today).   It is a complex topic and views will vary considerably.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

Well finally, finally, we now have someone here speaking up for anti-capitalism and the 99% I look forward to the Occupy Pattaya Movement getting their ya-yas out and showing us what's what.

You are misinterpreting what I said.  I am not against capitalism; rather, I would like to see its "spoils" more equitably divided.  Gross inequality is now a fact of life, worldwide. 

[pattayadude]

14 minutes ago, morrobay said:

And also   increasing the Thai population in Pattaya by condo development aimed at Thais.

emerging  middle-class in almost all of the 3rd world countries is the reason why they are flocking in affordable destinations like Pattaya IMHO..As a result of that  the quality (for some)has diminished and its only going to get worse before it gets better...Cheers

Edited September 13, 2016 by pattayadude

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Naam said:

20 years ago the selection of imported food was only a fraction of that what is available today. and the same applies to the variety of restaurants, e.g. 20 years ago one twelfth of a dozen Indian restaurants located at the end of walking streets seaside. excellent food but till it was served one was half starved.

If imported food is the reason one comes to Thailand then one can get imported food in any tourist town now. No need to change Pattaya just to get Branson's pickle.

To be honest, why would anyone move to Pattaya to eat Indian food?

 

Anyway, 20 years ago could you get imported food anywhere, like you can now?

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, newnative said:

I think you are the only one that thinks this thread is about the farang bar scene (what???)--and didn't you just comment about Jomtien condos 20 years ago? What does that have to do with bars?

There have been many such threads on TV and they are always about the bar scene. We've had 18 pages telling us that Pattaya itself isn't going downhill, and that is true. The OP is really about whether the zone is going downhill, but as usual it got hijacked by the real estate agents trying to hype the market.

I can comment on anything in the thread, if I choose to do so.

Edited September 13, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

37 minutes ago, morrobay said:

 

Well its because of the mess at  Bali Hi: Car park , walkway  out to lighthouse point  that is a greasy/garbage  junkyard passing by the marina disaster . Plus the so called walkway and Beach rd widening project  that was designed to accommodate mass tourism that has congested Pattaya. Along with the"' beach restoration project" The result of which is a junkyard beach and permanent trailer trash at South end , which by the way is the entrance to the cities prime tourist attraction   - That the Thais have given up on attracting  quality tourists. They finally realize  a lost cause : So they are in process of attracting domestic tourism, and yes Thais are tourists in Pattaya.

And also   increasing the Thai population in Pattaya by condo development aimed at Thais.

So sure alot of expats appreciate the new malls and can say Pattaya is going uphill.  But these  mall increases : Terminal 21, Harbor, proposed mall  at Montien location  , as well as the Bay are not going to make it without a major increase of Thais visiting and residing in Pattaya.  Basically the Thais and mass touring Chinese and Indians are oblivious to the environmental chaotic downhill environmental mess  that Pattaya has become.  Which of course includes the downhill social environment as well, thats  being made up by " domestic tourism"

Of course Thais are flocking to live in the Pattaya area. All those thousands of new homes being built in the countryside aren't for farangs. The new highways have made commuting to Bkk possible.

 

The result of which is a junkyard beach and permanent trailer trash at South end

However, while it may be true, I find it sad that Thais are prepared to put up with the garbage that farangs won't, just to live near the sea.

[Scotwight]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There have been many such threads on TV and they are always about the bar scene. We've had 18 pages telling us that Pattaya itself isn't going downhill, and that is true. The OP is really about whether the zone is going downhill, but as usual it got hijacked by the real estate agents trying to hype the market.

I can comment on anything in the thread, if I choose to do so.

I didn't know that.  Real estate agents!  Could we flag em or make the text yellow or something to identify those folks? 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, newnative said:

Not familiar with Naklua but I doubt the condo selection for highrises with seaviews in Jomtien was very good 20 years ago because it was rather limited less than 7 years ago when I arrived.  If you were looking for something  newer and affordable in Jomtien it was mostly the View Talays and a few others.  I know because I worked my way through VT3, VT5C, VT5D, and VT7.  Now, there's a nice selection in most price ranges.  And, the same for everything else--more choices for health care, groceries, furniture, home improvement, automobiles, restaurants, shopping centers, specialty stores, etc. etc. and, for me, that's a good thing.  Nobody's forcing anybody to patronize them.

Nobody's forcing anybody to patronize them.

However, by their existence, they bring more people and that is what caused the decrease in the quality of life in Pattaya. Perhaps Pattaya has been doomed to be a horrid place simply by being too close to Bkk, and the new highways just enabled it to happen.

 

IMO, the quality of life in Pattaya was best in the early 90s. After they got rid of the sewer smell, and before they got a council with a bound to fail attempt to move Pattaya upmarket ( for the usual reasons ).

[Naam]

52 minutes ago, Awohalitsiktoli said:

Virtually everything we actually needed to have a high quality of life was here way back in 1999.

 

please don't include me in "we". even 5 years later the selection of food, especially imported stuff was a fraction of what is available now. the deplorable speed of internet i have mentioned already and the variety of restaurants was poor compared with today. Suvarnabhumi did not exist and it was a gamble when to leave for Don Muang in order not to miss your flight. everybody has a different perspective.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Naam said:

 

i agree with you but i consider the advantages outweigh by far that some of old Pattaya's charme doesn't exist anymore. if i was, like in olden times, a tourist i'd miss the charme. as a near 12-year resident in the outskirts of Pattaya i enjoy what is offered today. for example a 100mbit fiber optic connection vs. the 128k wifi offered by a fistful of hotels or internet cafés 20 years ago.

old Pattaya's charme

Wow. We really differ there. IMO the only charm old Pattaya had was wearing very little and shuffling around a pole.

The walkway was nicer than it is now, but for beach charm I was headed to Phangan.

 

I get that you live in Pattaya, and want all mod cons, but for the vast majority of farangs passing through, it just isn't as good as it used to be, even if the newbies don't know that.

[Naam]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The OP is really about whether the zone is going downhill, but as usual it got hijacked by the real estate agents trying to hype the market.

why would any real estate agent bother to hijack a thread in Thaivisa were the boring mantra is "don't buy, rent!" and the moronish mantra "don't invest in Thailand more than you are prepared to lose!"

 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

An advice is welcome, if given by someone regarded as knowledgeable or/and authoritative, but even then one is not obligate to follow it.  

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Naam said:

why would any real estate agent bother to hijack a thread in Thaivisa were the boring mantra is "don't buy, rent!" and the moronish mantra "don't invest in Thailand more than you are prepared to lose!"

 

Both of which happen to be true as many have found out to their peril. One only has to read TV for a few years to know that.

Of course, some will have good luck, but it's only ever good till it's not .

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

please don't include me in "we". even 5 years later the selection of food, especially imported stuff was a fraction of what is available now. the deplorable speed of internet i have mentioned already and the variety of restaurants was poor compared with today. Suvarnabhumi did not exist and it was a gamble when to leave for Don Muang in order not to miss your flight. everybody has a different perspective.

Obviously we have different outlooks on life in Pattaya, but back in the early 90s nobody used the internet ( and were better off for it ), I had no problem finding a restaurant I liked among the hundreds on Beach and Second, and I preferred Don Muang to the badly designed monstrocity of SB. I always used to take the opportunity of flying to stay in Bkk the night before and check the scene out there. That way I had no problems catching my flight.

[Naam]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I get that you live in Pattaya, and want all mod cons, but for the vast majority of farangs passing through, it just isn't as good as it used to be, even if the newbies don't know that.

actually i don't live in Pattaya, i live in my house ~5km from downtown (as the crow flies). once a week i spent an hour or two having a coffee at beach road and do some delicacy shopping and on the way home i detect new construction sites, smile and think "fresh bitching fodder for some newbies or frustrated oldies posting in TV forum".

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, yaagjon said:

As someone who lives in Paradise like yourself I agree with you nearly 100%. I just wish something was done about the traffic.

LOL.

The traffic is a result of the development you want, and if you think anything will ever be done about the traffic you are living in the wrong country.

They can't fix the traffic in London, so why would they fix it in Pattaya where there is no political will to do so?

 

You may not have noticed, but there is no way to improve it in Pattaya without demolishing half the city, or banning cars ( and do you think that is going to happen? ).

[Naam]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Obviously we have different outlooks on life in Pattaya, but back in the early 90s nobody used the internet ( and were better off for it )

i was depending on internet in the 90s and i am depending on internet today. without internet in the 90s i would be as worse off as you.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

actually i don't live in Pattaya, i live in my house ~5km from downtown (as the crow flies). once a week i spent an hour or two having a coffee at beach road and do some delicacy shopping and on the way home i detect new construction sites, smile and think "fresh bitching fodder for some newbies or frustrated oldies posting in TV forum".

 

So actually you have no skin in this game!

[Naam]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Obviously we have different outlooks on life in Pattaya,

 

what part of my comment

 

Quote

everybody has a different perspective.

 

is it you did not understand?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Naam said:

i was depending on internet in the 90s and i am depending on internet today. without internet in the 90s i would be as worse off as you.

Do tell. How did you have the internet in the early 90s? I said but back in the early 90s nobody used the internet

 

Wikipedia

Thailand obtained internet access in 1996 as the third country in South East Asia.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

what part of my comment

 

 

is it you did not understand?

I was just making conversation, which is what public chat forums are all about.

It's not as though 477 posts on a thread on TV is going to change one iota of Pattaya.

Edited September 13, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[balo]

Pattaya has grown too big, its like a city but without the right infrastructure. Compare it with Chiang Mai , good infrastructure, traffic lights that actually works.

If they want to make Pattaya bigger then turn it into a real city and not a garbage dump.

[balo]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do tell. How did you have the internet in the early 90s? I said but back in the early 90s nobody used the internet

 

Wikipedia

Thailand obtained internet access in 1996 as the third country in South East Asia.

 

I was online in 1993. With a 300 baud modem connected to an analog phone line. But it worked. At least for transferrin txt files  and some crappy porn images LOL. 

 

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So actually you have no skin in this game!

i have more skin in this game than any Pattaya basher who lives in a village near Nakhon Nowhere, Stoke-on-Trent or Birmingham, Alabama.

reason: i am depending on Pattaya's infrastructure (electricity supply, communication, health care and shopping possibilities).

 

for me totally irrelevant: real estate market, the price of Chang in a 7/11, pollution of the beach, quality of tourists, bar fines in Walking Street, traffic jams, balcony jumpers, the ankle breaking sidewalks, and... and... and...

[Naam]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do tell. How did you have the internet in the early 90s? I said but back in the early 90s nobody used the internet

 

Wikipedia

Thailand obtained internet access in 1996 as the third country in South East Asia.

what do i care what you say?

i said:

Quote

internet in the 90s

and that was of utmost importance during the second half of 1997 when the big financial crisis hit virtually all Asia.

[joeyg]

I've been Coming to Thailand since 1971.  Living in Naklua a little over a year.  I like it fine so far.  Always seems much cooler, cleaner and quieter than "downtown."  Pattaya is a "3 ring circus"  I stay out of the streets as much as possible and try to watch my step "constantly." Absolutely refuse to drive here.  Those that do need a wheelbarrow to carry your balls in.  Really the roads scare the shit out of me and I have raced both  "bikes" and cars.

 

Pattaya is raunchy but fun.  Found my favorite spot out on Koh Larn.  I find the Thai cops pretty cool, as a pedestrian. Always glad to get back to Naklua though.  

 

Down hill, kind of like most other places I guess.

[thaibeachlovers]

35 minutes ago, Naam said:

what do i care what you say?

i said:

and that was of utmost importance during the second half of 1997 when the big financial crisis hit virtually all Asia.

There was NO internet in Pattaya before 96. ie in the early 90s

I'm sure you don't care what I said, but it helps if you are responding to a quoted reply to answer it rather than going off on an erroneous ramble.

Edited September 13, 2016 by thaibeachlovers