Pattaya going downhill!

[pattayadude]

12 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Chinese, Thais, Indians, Arabs, Russians! We all know they can't afford to eat at Kiss

I'm not sure if it's an affordability issue.I think some of these nationalities don't even like to try different cuisines and only stick to their own.especially most Arabs and Indians for cultural and religious reasons

[morrobay]

Just now, JSixpack said:

 

 

 

Grrrr. Pollution, rats, trash, traffic,

no seats, no shade, no view, no butt wipes,

dirt, sandbags!

 

Meanwhile, the sun's coming out, cool season's upon us, and I and many others are finding Pattaya's not perfect but still a very nice place to be. Cheers from my fave barstool and the black-haired angels surrounding! :)

 

 

Im getting a little tired  of you associating me with above ^ photo, re sandbags.

Photo on left 10 years ago. Gym photo last month. I have nothing to hide - how about you ???

Just curious what you look like ??

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, pattayadude said:

I'm not sure if it's an affordability issue.I think some of these nationalities don't even like to try different cuisines and only stick to their own.especially most Arabs and Indians for cultural and religious reasons

 

You may have a point but you see I'm invoking the TVF Poster Only Farangs Have Money rule of economics. It does correlate well with and help explain the "downhill" mentality.

 

If you wanna see it naked, go read Ruling out the foreigner (2003), the 17-page granddaddy "killing the goose" bash fest prompted by the news that after many years Thailand would dare raise visa fees. OMG. THIS WAS IT. The teeth gnashing, the hair pulling, the knickers twisting; the ranting, the wailing, the screaming, the anguish, the shock, the accusations of insanity, and of course the dire prophecies! No one would be left to shop in the malls, no one would buy condos, bar girls would disappear, and Thais would all have to return to work in rice paddies. Back to the Stone Age! Oh, it was gonna be a thousand million times worse than later prophecies of the total destruction of Pattaya tourism by widening Beach Road.

 

This led--unconsciously, to be sure--to what we might call the "standard model" of TVF economics. The model holds that the Thai economy started in the so-called Golden Era with the Primordial Fixed Pie, known technically to our most distinguished economists as Ur Pie (Ur Mince Pie to the Poms among them). Ur Pie contained all the vendors, all the shops, all the consumers, and all the money in Thailand--and all that there ever would be. Crucially, all the money had been provided by the benevolent Golden Egg Layers. They kept beer prices & bar fines low and ensured No Change, the fundamental principle of a successful economy that applies all the way down to the micro level of the small shop.

 

Then in 2003 came that disastrous Big Bang: the incredibly stupid, insane rise in visa fees that killed off so many of the Golden Egg Layers, the only engine of economic development! What few are left are moving to Cambodia etc.

 

In absence of the supremely important Golden Egg Layers, the Big Bang initiated The Great Splatter of the Primordial Fixed Pie into mere Slices thereafter perpetually fought & haggled over. Hence our economists always invoke Fixed Pie when dooming new malls, starting with Central World and Siam Paragon in Bangkok: not enough Slices to go around, as the Fixed Pie had never contained enough vendors, consumers, or money to support any new malls.

 

Part of the fun is laughing at these bigoted, ignorant, knee-jerk rules you so often read here. Someday I should list them all out w/ definitions and examples.

[JSixpack]

16 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Im getting a little tired  of you associating me with above ^ photo, re sandbags.

 

Huh? But I wonder how you made that association. :) Too off-topic to enjoy, however. Lighten up!

[Flanno]

After being here for 2 weeks this trip I'm firmly of the belief that Pattaya is developing in the right direction and not the downhill spiral as many suggest it is. Many new hotels in sois off Beach Rd are replacing vacant land or derelect buildings, some  beer bars are being replaced by new buildings or restaurants and even a new very large shopping centre down near the Dolphin Roundabout on Second Rd. There are definitely many more couples, of all nationalities, holidaying here and the sleaze element is diminishing. Let's face it Pattaya will always be connected to the sex industry but it can be contained to certain areas and away from mainstream tourist areas.

As for myself I enjoy playing golf a couple of days a week here, the odd visit to a fishing park, a few beers with friends at night, a good hotel with excellent swimming pool and excellent food at very low prices compared to back home.

I am confident it won't be too many years before I can tell family/friends I'm off to Pattaya without the usual looks of consternation from them as to why I'm here.

Sorry sexpats and sex tourists I know this post won't please you but that's the way it is.

 

[pattayalover]

US citizens pay taxes no matter where they live.  But, back on topic, yes, Pattaya is going downhill.  And yes, there are still positive things about the place.  I think the negatives have outweighed the positives since the end of the 90s (very end).

ah yes, tax on citizenship. I m happy to be an European. no residence, no tax, no report, no fbar, no fatca, total freedom.!

[JHolmesJr]

On 23 November, 2016 at 0:53 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Re Kiss. The décor, and the prices, have gone up considerably. The only thing that hasn't changed is the lack of service, especially when trying to catch the eye of staff when wanting to pay the bill.

 

I don't usually got here as its 'farang-ified' thai food….but i was most impressed some time ago with a simple omelette they made me.

 

I gave clear instructions on what I wanted in it….and how I didnt want it folded and soggy inside….and they got it 100% right.

 

 

[JSixpack]

On 11/22/2016 at 6:23 PM, Awohalitsiktoli said:

The so called "whingers" (whiners/complainers) are often engaged in "positive negativism".  They are trying to reflect reality and want to point out a problem with the hope of it being recognized as a problem and corrected. 

 

No, just useless whinging and trying to put lipstick on your own pig, to use TVF Poster metaphor. Let thaibeachlovers explain for you:

 

On 11/25/2016 at 0:05 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

You KNOW the way it is, yet you still live in LOS. I find it strange that you think it will change if enough farangs complain about it, or perhaps you just like complaining about things as they are without being able to do anything to change it.

 

[JSixpack]

53 minutes ago, Flanno said:

After being here for 2 weeks this trip I'm firmly of the belief that Pattaya is developing in the right direction and not the downhill spiral as many suggest it is. Many new hotels in sois off Beach Rd are replacing vacant land or derelect buildings, some  beer bars are being replaced by new buildings or restaurants and even a new very large shopping centre down near the Dolphin Roundabout on Second Rd. There are definitely many more couples, of all nationalities, holidaying here and the sleaze element is diminishing. Let's face it Pattaya will always be connected to the sex industry but it can be contained to certain areas and away from mainstream tourist areas.

As for myself I enjoy playing golf a couple of days a week here, the odd visit to a fishing park, a few beers with friends at night, a good hotel with excellent swimming pool and excellent food at very low prices compared to back home.

I am confident it won't be too many years before I can tell family/friends I'm off to Pattaya without the usual looks of consternation from them as to why I'm here.

Sorry sexpats and sex tourists I know this post won't please you but that's the way it is.

 

 

I see nothing displeasing to sexpats and sex tourists there. Pattaya has been expanding its market and, as I've often said, offers something for everybody. I mean, if you're not too delicate, as with many posters chiming in on these DEATH threads. It's not a place for snowflakes and fussy old ladies, having to reel daily from shock to horror, poor dears. And you'll need more money now than you did 20 years ago.

[Flanno]

44 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

I see nothing displeasing to sexpats and sex tourists there. Pattaya has been expanding its market and, as I've often said, offers something for everybody. I mean, if you're not too delicate, as with many posters chiming in on these DEATH threads. It's not a place for snowflakes and fussy old ladies, having to reel daily from shock to horror, poor dears. And you'll need more money now than you did 20 years ago.

If you go back and read the original post a big part of it was bemoaning the higher cost of bar fines and the 'industry' in general. It had about 15 likes so plenty here agreed with him.

[JSixpack]

38 minutes ago, Flanno said:

If you go back and read the original post a big part of it was bemoaning the higher cost of bar fines and the 'industry' in general. It had about 15 likes so plenty here agreed with him.

 

Exactly. So many of the moans would cease if the cheap hotel and bf prices had just adhered to No Change. But after a metric so critical to a member's happiness goes south then he finds imperfection just everywhere. Suddenly--potholes!

[pattayadude]

I can't believe some posters go on and on and on and on like the energizer rabbit.

Being happy in whatever city or country you live in a is subjective and based on or influenced by personal feelings, good and bad experiences,tastes or opinion and even those  can change over time or aging and it's perfectly normal.

We are talking "humans" here.

A new shopping centre  by the dolphin square may please some and it's the end of the road for others.

Some wouldn't be caught dead in that  2nd road restaurant and for others it's like a daily visit to a sacred place or shrine.

For some Pattaya is going uphill, for some others it's going downhill.

I believe this topic is exhausted and some posters are just repeating themselves over and over and over.

[JSixpack]

5 hours ago, pattayadude said:

I believe this topic is exhausted and some posters are just repeating themselves over and over and over.

 

You must be new here. It was already exhausted more than 10 years ago.

 

How many Pattaya Sucks threads do we need anyway?

     --Ulysses G, March 9, 2007 08:33 AM

 

Yeah, the goose was killed, last nail in the coffin driven. TVF Coroners' reports and the obituaries were duly published.

 

But so many members NEED the yearly exhumation rituals! Hence the corpse of Pattaya will be perpetually exhumed, declared DEAD, thoroughly autopsied, and then reburied again . . . and again . . . and again . . . forever and ever amen. Ghoulish, innit? Especially if you don't even live here, LOL.

 

Another exhumation!

 

I agree; and here's my simple question: Why can't the dead rest in peace? Instead of ghouls and their rituals, where's the poet, the TVF Thomas Gray to compose a proper meditation on these bleached ruins, our Elegy Written in a Drained Cesspool? THAT would be a good read, probably dislodge Money Number One at the top of the Pattaya book list.

 

But since they continue, might as well have a good laugh at them and occasionally pop a few balloons. And make some investments in companies with Pattaya-related business, as the DOOM threads are such excellent reverse economic indicators.

 

New Year's Eve 2116 in a long-forgotten bunker buried deep within Pratumnak Hill

 

 

[onemorechang]

5 hours ago, pattayadude said:

 

I believe this topic is exhausted and some posters are just repeating themselves over and over and over.

 

Quote

I believe this topic is exhausted and some posters are just repeating themselves over and over and over.

 

Quote

I believe this topic is exhausted and some posters are just repeating themselves over and over and over.

 

Sorry,  just had to.

[BugJackBaron]

Pattaya's not dead! It just smells bad. And the bar girls are learning Chinese.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

7 hours ago, pattayadude said:

I can't believe some posters go on and on and on and on like the energizer rabbit.

Being happy in whatever city or country you live in a is subjective and based on or influenced by personal feelings, good and bad experiences,tastes or opinion and even those  can change over time or aging and it's perfectly normal.

We are talking "humans" here.

A new shopping centre  by the dolphin square may please some and it's the end of the road for others.

Some wouldn't be caught dead in that  2nd road restaurant and for others it's like a daily visit to a sacred place or shrine.

For some Pattaya is going uphill, for some others it's going downhill.

I believe this topic is exhausted and some posters are just repeating themselves over and over and over.

Yep, uphill for some and downhill for others.  IMHO, one poster -- the one who posts the infantile, illogical, long and totally boring posts -- has a mental disease (specifically, narcissistic personality disorder).  People with that disease cannot tolerate another point of view and are, in their limited mindset, always right.   They cannot admit to making a mistake and always must have the last say.  They spend huge amounts of time trying to convince others that they are right.  That same poster is no doubt invested in the local real estate market.  His "game" (Pattaya-Jomtien is going uphill, has never been better, and anybody who disagrees is old, poor and stupid) is transparent. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎26‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 2:33 PM, Flanno said:

After being here for 2 weeks this trip I'm firmly of the belief that Pattaya is developing in the right direction and not the downhill spiral as many suggest it is. Many new hotels in sois off Beach Rd are replacing vacant land or derelect buildings, some  beer bars are being replaced by new buildings or restaurants and even a new very large shopping centre down near the Dolphin Roundabout on Second Rd. There are definitely many more couples, of all nationalities, holidaying here and the sleaze element is diminishing. Let's face it Pattaya will always be connected to the sex industry but it can be contained to certain areas and away from mainstream tourist areas.

As for myself I enjoy playing golf a couple of days a week here, the odd visit to a fishing park, a few beers with friends at night, a good hotel with excellent swimming pool and excellent food at very low prices compared to back home.

I am confident it won't be too many years before I can tell family/friends I'm off to Pattaya without the usual looks of consternation from them as to why I'm here.

Sorry sexpats and sex tourists I know this post won't please you but that's the way it is.

 

Sorry for laughing, but new restaurants indicate upward mobility, really? Pattaya has always had a wide variety of restaurants of all types. A few more ain't going to make a difference to the broken pavements or the too many baht buses congesting the roads, or the floods everytime it rains.

 

I can't work out if this is your first visit or you have been before , but pretending to family/ friends that you are actually going somewhere else.

However, if your family/ friends are consternated ( is that a word? ), I suggest you inform them that Pattaya has never been just about sex, any more than Amsterdam is. Education is always a good thing.

[Flanno]

POST 770        I've been coming to Thailand, several times a year, since 1999. I used move around a bit and spend time in Phuket, Chiang Mai, Kanchanaburi, Hua Hin and Pattaya. So I simply tell people I'm off to Thailand. However in recent years I've been happy to spend the majority of my time here in Pattaya. Unfortunately the worlds media has painted Pattaya as a haven for sex tourists and nothing else and sadly many people back home only have this one image of the city.

Anyway you don't have to concern yourself anymore since you made your farewell to Pattaya post. But I'm guessing the final paragraph of my previous post does not sit well with you.

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sorry for laughing, but new restaurants indicate upward mobility, really? Pattaya has always had a wide variety of restaurants of all types.

 

But now there's a much larger number and a much wider variety and some of those are pretty high-end, charging Bangkok prices, which you once thought an impossibility. So, yes. Moreover, Flanno was talking about much more than restaurants.

 

Quote

A few more ain't going to make a difference to the broken pavements or the too many baht buses congesting the roads, or the floods everytime it rains.

 

Not a few, and they already have, as they've found plenty of new patrons undeterred by broken pavements or too many baht buses. Nor does it flood "everytime it rains," typical silly, tiresome exaggeration. Please inform yourself that it only floods maybe 3 times a year. Even if it didn't flood then, the rain would mostly keep people inside.They wouldn't be going to the beach on those days anyway.

 

Quote

However, if your family/ friends are consternated ( is that a word? ), I suggest you inform them that Pattaya has never been just about sex, any more than Amsterdam is. Education is always a good thing.

 

But it appears many a TVF keyboard warrior doesn't know that either. So you might start defending Pattaya as--a family resort! :)

 

[nemo38]

I was in Pattaya six months ago after a ten year absence. The hotels were amazing value. Very nice rooms, excellent service, and  lots of availability. 

 

Whoever brings in coaches of Chinese and Koreans is a genius. They are doing a lot of business bringing tourists to a place which is hard to sell. I am glad that there are "too many" hotels as it keeps prices very low. 

 

There is a lot of great food, for reasonable prices. I found a Pizza place just before walking street with a smoked salmon and cream cheese Pizza that was so good I kept doing back. 

 

It is true - so I have heard - that naughty prices in Walking street and other first class locations - have astronomical prices. But, people tell me, Soi 6 is a good bang for your buck. But I wouldn't know anything about that. People are apparently coming to Pattaya instead of Angeles, in the Philippines, as this is now the better destination.

[pattayadude]

"Nor does it flood "everytime it rains," typical silly, tiresome exaggeration. Please inform yourself that it only floods maybe 3 times a year "

is that true!

let's see...

 

 

February 2016!

March 2016!

April 2016!

June 2016!

July 2016!

published august 2016

 

October 2016!

 

and November 2016!

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Flanno said:

POST 770        I've been coming to Thailand, several times a year, since 1999. I used move around a bit and spend time in Phuket, Chiang Mai, Kanchanaburi, Hua Hin and Pattaya. So I simply tell people I'm off to Thailand. However in recent years I've been happy to spend the majority of my time here in Pattaya. Unfortunately the worlds media has painted Pattaya as a haven for sex tourists and nothing else and sadly many people back home only have this one image of the city.

Anyway you don't have to concern yourself anymore since you made your farewell to Pattaya post. But I'm guessing the final paragraph of my previous post does not sit well with you.

LOL. I am not worried at all about the final paragraph. If I were, I wouldn't spend a great deal of time lauding Pattaya as a monger's town.

I also never found it necessary to not mention Pattaya as a destination when I went off on my twice yearly visit to LOS, and had anyone asked I would have told them I was going there. I try not to concern myself with the opinions of the narrow minded and uneducated.

As I have learned over the many years I have been alive, the media are more usually trash talkers than paragons of truth. When it comes to all things Thai, the western media are no better than scurrilous liars, distorting the reality to fit their twisted agenda.

 

Re what the real estate agent was saying, I think one could find "Bangkok prices" in any Thai town with more than 5 restaurants. Certainly are in the dump I used to live in. So, I don't get the relevance.

As for "family resort"- it has been a family destination for over 20 years. I guess he can't see enough through the saffron coloured glasses to see all the big resorts at the north end of the beach, and all the kids running around on the beach. Perhaps he only visits walking street, so he wouldn't know.

[NanLaew]

41 minutes ago, pattayadude said:

"Nor does it flood "everytime it rains," typical silly, tiresome exaggeration. Please inform yourself that it only floods maybe 3 times a year "

is that true!

let's see...

 

 

February 2016!

March 2016!

April 2016!

June 2016!

July 2016!

published august 2016

 

October 2016!

 

and November 2016!

 

 

 

Nice collection of flash flood videos and pictures. Thanks!

 

"Flash floods are distinguished from regular floods by a timescale of less than six hours."

[pattayadude]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Nice collection of flash flood videos and pictures. Thanks!

 

"Flash floods are distinguished from regular floods by a timescale of less than six hours."

Flash or regular..at the end of the day, as a result of it, the city streets are  filled with knee-high rain water and sewer!

but WHY does this happen almost every month and the periods in between and more often than before? why?

same reason why the city streets have huge bundles of electric, cable, telephone wires crisscrossing the whole town.

ask yourself why...

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, pattayadude said:

Flash or regular..at the end of the day, as a result of it, the city streets are  filled with knee-high rain water and sewer!

but WHY does this happen almost every month and the periods in between and more often than before? why?

same reason why the city streets have huge bundles of electric, cable, telephone wires crisscrossing the whole town.

ask yourself why...

But it is NOT regular. It is flash flooding.

 

Now if you want to talk about Bangladesh in monsoon season...

[pattayadude]

22 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

But it is NOT regular. It is flash flooding.

 

Now if you want to talk about Bangladesh in monsoon season...

  floods/flashfloods happen when the underlying ground cannot cope or drain the water away fast enough.bad City planning, inadequate drainage  is also associated with frequent floods.but if you want to blame every flood in every month in Pattaya on the climate, be my guest.

flood topic is exhausted ! I have no more to say!

[JSixpack]

3 hours ago, pattayadude said:

Flash or regular..at the end of the day, as a result of it, the city streets are  filled with knee-high rain water and sewer!

but WHY does this happen almost every month and the periods in between and more often than before? why?

same reason why the city streets have huge bundles of electric, cable, telephone wires crisscrossing the whole town.

ask yourself why...

 

Yep, merely flash flood when the rain is so heavy nobody's going to be out anyway. Had 'em forever in the rainy season. BKK and other cities too of course. No measurable effect on tourism. Only effect is another excuse for TVF whinging. OMG--now it's the wires! :)

 

It doesn't matter why. Nothing you can do about it.

[JSixpack]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Re what the real estate agent was saying, I think one could find "Bangkok prices" in any Thai town with more than 5 restaurants. Certainly are in the dump I used to live in. So, I don't get the relevance.

 

How we forget. You said that if anybody is stupid enough to build a place in Pattaya that charges Bangkok prices, it's going to fail.

 

thaibeachlovers, on 2009-05-29 19:01:26:

Central World is going to fail, just like The Avenues. Anyone stupid enough to build a place that charges Bangkok prices in a small tourist resort town deserves to go bankrupt.

 

So that was quite a big deal, those prices. But now there are a lot of such restaurants, many in the "failed" mall, and they're doing just fine, thank you. :) So this is in fact an "upward mobility" indicator, as implied by your own previous statement in fact, and so you can now promote Pattaya as a family destination even more strongly than in the past. :) Me, I've always said Pattya's got something for everybody.

 

I'm not a real estate agent BTW. That's merely the silly term of opprobrium used by our naysayers to diminish anyone who sees Pattaya objectively without the cataracts and dark glasses that prevent them from, say, seeing anyone buying anything in "failed" Central. I've given a list of "agents" in a post above.

 

 

 

[pattayadude]

1 hour ago, JSixpack said:

 

Yep, merely flash flood when the rain is so heavy nobody's going to be out anyway. Had 'em forever in the rainy season. BKK and other cities too of course. No measurable effect on tourism. Only effect is another excuse for TVF whinging. OMG--now it's the wires! :)

 

It doesn't matter why. Nothing you can do about it.

yeah  ofc it all depends on how you see it. I personally love torrential rains, and Pattaya does get it's fair share of that and the skies look magnificent.as far as wires, they need to go underground man..they look intimidating and quite dangerous. lately they started to collapse here and there and I've seen photos of it :)

[JSixpack]

16 minutes ago, pattayadude said:

yeah  ofc it all depends on how you see it. I personally love torrential rains, and Pattaya does get it's fair share of that and the skies look magnificent.as far as wires, they need to go underground man..they look intimidating and quite dangerous. lately they started to collapse here and there and I've seen photos of it :)

 

But again this gives no support to the case for Pattaya going "downhill." At no time have those wires ever been underground. That's how Thailand does wires, w/ only very rare exceptions. They haven't prevented any tourists from coming here or residents from living here or Pattaya's development continuing even if there are more wires.

 

Remember The Tunnel and TVF New Construction Syndrome. As I noted in response to Keester's suggestion that the Jomtien wires go underground:

 

On 11/5/2016 at 9:23 AM, JSixpack said:

 

No, if they did that then our ace construction engineers, after performing a long series of complex calculations, would reveal that poles are cheaper and ask why not poles. In answer the mighty TVF Tea Money Chorus would chant the chants and the Brown Envelope Bots would buzz, each Bot receiving +1 point in forum cred. I'm surprised they aren't out already as everybody knows that there can't really be any increased need for power.

 

Our ace urban planners would appreciate the long overdue deference to their highly sensitive aesthetic tastes yet decry the greater traffic disruption, claim that the cable tunnels will flood (cue submarine jokes),  and sneer that anyone would have known to bury them underground in the first place.

 

You may read tropo's defense of overhead cables in the thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/951941-thepprasit-road-powers-up/

 

They won't be going underground anytime soon, so this is another "problem" you're just gonna have to suck up. :)