Tesla in Thailand

[OMGImInPattaya]

Tesla has future plans for Gigafactories in Europe and China (which will manufacture batteries and vehicles under one roof). Once the China factory is up and running, we may start to see Tesla officially roll-out vehicles in SE Asian countries. However, I would guess it won't happen for 5-10 years.

[pkspeaker]

This article talks about some of the dangers in mining these metals they use:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/19/tesla-motors-dirty-little-secret-is-a-major-proble.aspx

 

not sure myself, but I have heard in the past about environmental damage being done just to make all our other electronic crap,  electronic cars are really gonna ramp up the mining. then it rambles about how co2 causes global warming which is a bunch of bullshit since there is no global warming.  but I think anyway you look at it battery powered cars will continue to be an expensive toy for very rich people, and that's with big government subsidy.

 

I remember a few years ago hearing about how one of these hybred cars could get 50miles to the gallon.  made me laugh because I remember in the early 80's the volkswaggon rabbit stikshift could get 50 miles to the gallon.

[eTiMaGo]

On 8/10/2016 at 7:34 PM, pkspeaker said:

that doesn't say much because i love my yaris  everyone loves their stupid car.

I love my Yaris too  But I still drool over Teslas... Forget owning one in Thailand, without a supercharger network, or the battery quick-swap option, it is pretty useless...

Someone did mention something interesting though, running the AC from the batteries while in traffic must be one hell of a heavy load!

 

It's early days yet... I wonder if there were similar reactions from the horse and carriage crowd when the first internal combustion engine vehicles came about

[johninbkk71]

The batteries are very eco-friendly as they are almost completely recyclable at the end of their useful lifetimes. The Lithium and other metals in the batteries can (and will) be recovered and made into new batteries. So once a critical mass of vehicles is on the road and enough time has elapsed, there will be minimal need for new batteries from scratch.

 

All of the power for the new Nevada Tesla Gigafactory is provided by onsite solar and nearby geo-thermal power sources. The factory has been designed from the ground up as a net-zero energy consumer.

 

Maybe better to actually know something about what you post on.

 

Thanks for the tip. Should take your own advice.

 

 

 

https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge

http://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/

http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/the-path-to-lithium-batteries-friend-or-foe.html

http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/living-with-the-side-effects-of-lithium-ion-batteries.html

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/hold-smugness-tesla-might-just-worse-environment-know/

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22001356

[Thailimpan]

They are sold out for the next 3 years, but then who is in a rush

[seedy]

Off Topic post Removed

[mwbrown]

On 8/10/2016 at 7:45 PM, Berty100 said:

 

 

Welcome to the world of Mr Elon Ponzi Musk, who is creating one of the biggest scams known to mankind, with government money. Read, average Joe's tax money.

 

The solar roof of his factory was installed by Solar City, a company once considered the the leader in solar energy in the US but also owned by Musk, but which strange enough went bankrupt after such a big project. Hey I also can build something massive that speaks to the imagination if I don't have to pay for it.

 

After the bankruptcy Tesla bought the company, which was owned by Musk already, with borrowed money. So in fact he bailed himself out.

 

It is noit a question if this guys projects will blow up, but when.

 

Thanks for the link to the fanboy site of Mr Ponzi Musk

 

Wow, so much misinformation.  First of all, there is *zero* solar on the Gigafactory now because the building is still under construction, solar will come shortly.  Second, Solar City has never gone bankrupt.  Tesla and Solar City have just agreed to merge, making Tesla a full electric transportation and renewable energy and storage company.  I think you're thinking about Solyndra, which did go bankrupt due to Chinese government-subsidized solar modules coming on the market and collapsing prices beyond what Solyndra could achieve.  I've followed Tesla for 10 years, built my own electric car and worked as an engineer in the solar industry for 5 years, so I know what I'm talking about.  You, not so much.

[tx22cb]

I admit that I lust after a Tesla.  I rarely drive more than 100 kms a day, I am almost always in/around BKK, I always park overnight in the same covered parking spot.  I just need to run a power line to the garage.  So the limited range and overnight charging do not bother me one bit.

However, my perception of the Tesla is the same as convertible cars - great in a cool(ish) unpolluted climate, rather challenging in hot/humid Bangkok.  Need a lot of power for the AirCon - perhaps a roof of solar panels would help (more useful than self-drive in crazy BKK traffic).

[Bangkok Sausage house]

16 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

This article talks about some of the dangers in mining these metals they use:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/19/tesla-motors-dirty-little-secret-is-a-major-proble.aspx

 

not sure myself, but I have heard in the past about environmental damage being done just to make all our other electronic crap,  electronic cars are really gonna ramp up the mining. then it rambles about how co2 causes global warming which is a bunch of bullshit since there is no global warming.  but I think anyway you look at it battery powered cars will continue to be an expensive toy for very rich people, and that's with big government subsidy.

 

I remember a few years ago hearing about how one of these hybred cars could get 50miles to the gallon.  made me laugh because I remember in the early 80's the volkswaggon rabbit stikshift could get 50 miles to the gallon.

Many of the issues in this 2.5 year old article have been debunked. 

[Berty100]

30 minutes ago, mwbrown said:

 

Wow, so much misinformation.  First of all, there is *zero* solar on the Gigafactory now because the building is still under construction, solar will come shortly.  Second, Solar City has never gone bankrupt.  Tesla and Solar City have just agreed to merge, making Tesla a full electric transportation and renewable energy and storage company.  I think you're thinking about Solyndra, which did go bankrupt due to Chinese government-subsidized solar modules coming on the market and collapsing prices beyond what Solyndra could achieve.  I've followed Tesla for 10 years, built my own electric car and worked as an engineer in the solar industry for 5 years, so I know what I'm talking about.  You, not so much.

 

You're right, Solarcity wasn't bankrupt yet, it was on the brink of bankruptcy and Musk kas invested a lot of borrowed money in it and that is why Musk bailed it out with MORE borrowed money.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-22/musk-says-solarcity-deal-about-synergy-but-it-may-be-about-debt

 

And no I wasnb't confused with Solyndra, or Sunedison, or even Sunpower which is also on the brink of going bankrupt.

 

By the way the probability of Solarcity going bankrupt anyway has increased in the past few days, so that is after Musk poured a few more billion Dollar in it.Not his money of course.

 

https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/SCTY--Probability-Of-Bankruptcy

 

 

[mercman24]

if i had 7 mil to spend that would be the last car on my shopping list, petrol is cheap enough here anyhow. cannot understand all this hype about changing to lpg either,

[seedy]

Off Topic post Removed. Tesla is the flavor of the thread, not Henry Ford or the state of the Auto industry at the turn of the century.

[Naam]

On 8/10/2016 at 6:05 PM, pkspeaker said:

I read *i think* in the bangkok post, they tested one in bangkok and it was useless, it didn't get even half the range it was supposed to.  Keep in mind, unless you wanna sweat your ass off, you have to run the aircon high in Thailand, a battery powered aircon on top of everything else forget it.  running an airconditioner on battery?  I don't understand why anyone would pay so much (7 Million Baht!) for a car that takes an even an hour to 'refill'  Electric cars are stupid.  its a dumb idea and the only reason tesla is viable is because the us taxpayer is footing the bill.  If you are going to have one being in a cold climate is mandatory because it's easier to forgo the heater than it is the aircon in a warm climate.  You need to have your own house and garage so you can charge it all the time, and you need to have a real car to back up your stupid useless toy.  Ideal candidate is a very rich stupid person who lives in Alaska.

[Bangkok Sausage house]

Almost 50% of Tesla buyers are in California.  It's hot there and not all the rich people there are stupid

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Naam said:

 

[Bangkok Sausage house]

Hilarious article on how traditional car manufacturers should try to delay the electric car revolution. 

 

http://cleantechnica.com/2016/08/11/50-tips-slowing-electric-car-revolution/

 

1. Whatever you do, don’t admit that electric cars are ready to crush gasoline cars in performance.
2. Certainly, do not produce a fully electric car that puts your gasoline cars to shame.
3. When the media asks you about electric cars, say that you support their development and are working on them, but also claim that they are too expensive, don’t have enough range, and customers don’t want them. (Ignore the fact that this is all basically because of how you’ve approached electric cars and the products you’ve created.)
4. When advertising, target a tiny niche group of hippies and don’t focus on the better drive quality, acceleration, smooth ride, or greater convenience (home charging) of your electric cars.
5. Very critically, do not work hard to scale up battery production, and only make token baby steps (as a sign of “effort”) to roll out or help roll out fast charging.
6. For that matter, act like 50 kW DC charging is fast charging and don’t touch anything over 100 kW for as long as possible.
7. Give your electric cars 3.3 kW Level 2 max charging, rather than much more useful 10 kW or 20 kW Level 2 max charging.
8. If forced to produce more electric cars in certain markets, make most of them plug-in hybrids with small batteries that take away from key benefits of EVs (like smooth acceleration, not having to go to a gas station, etc.)
9. Really push the idea that the technology and consumers are not ready for fully electric cars, and that plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) will be important transition vehicles for decades to come.
10. If forced to sell electric cars in popular car markets, tell customers not to buy them (but try not to admit that electric cars would destroy the competitive advantages and finances of your business, and that’s why you don’t want people to buy the better product).
11. When you build your PHEVs, be sure to make the engines big and the motors small — this will help to make them more expensive than necessary while hiding the cost and performance benefits of EVs.
12. Additionally, rather than designing EVs or PHEVs from scratch, just turn a gasoline model into an EV/PHEV model. This will be more complicated and make the model less appealing than building from scratch.
13. When turning gas models into EV/PHEV models, make sure to cut out enough storage space that the car becomes impractical for most buyers.

The article goes on and on.  Very amusing. 

[Ace of Pop]

When they make a car priced from 500K to 1 Mill with a range to run for  6Hrs + with air con keeping it at 25 C, and dont slam up the price of charging it , and queuing for hours like you see gas cars doing now behind Mini Buses and Taxis they may be worth a second glance. When Governments start to see the Motorist benefit from them,and they loose Tax Revenue, they soon make it a no win purchase imo. Did they not do so with Diesel and we rushed to buy a Clonker, now benzines cheaper . We dont all have Norways stupid high income unfortunately.

[tomwct]

Next week! You can order one at your local Tesco Store!

[tifino]

something from a 'different' price range:

 

... and the author keeps comparing figures against a Tesla       555

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by tifino

[bno]

On 10.8.2016 at 4:39 PM, pkspeaker said:

yea well there's like one place selling them  in thailand and they are expensive as hell..

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html?_r=0

 

" The federal government has invested in the effort to find a solution. Three years ago, Steven Chu, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist and secretary of energy, proudly announced a $465 million loan to Tesla as part of an advanced vehicles program intended to cut fossil fuel use and address global warming. "

 

pretty sure that $465 mil is just the tip of the iceberg and no global warming since 1997, and of course since most electricity is produced by fossil fuel burning plants, it's pointless. 

 

If they charge in 30 minutes (for a half charge) or an hour, that's pretty impressive, unless you compare to a car that runs on gas which recharges in 1 minute.  and ofcource if more people do buy these things, those really convenient charging stations are gonna get crowded really fast, so you pull into one and guess what, you gotta wait for the other dummy that is 'eating lunch' while he charges.. oh sure it's so convenient because you get to eat lunch.

 

electric cars are stupid.

G20 subsidies on Hydrocarbon annually is:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-12/g20-countries-paying-billions-to-fossil-fuel-producers/6936474

 

Supercharger network Tesla is for free use se pic:

 

ICE cars will be outdated within the next decade as the horsetaxi in N.Y. did in the same time. View this and you will discover that a electric car (BEV) has 20 moving parts as compared to ICE cars with above 2000 moving parts : 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by bno

[OMGImInPattaya]

17 hours ago, bno said:

G20 subsidies on Hydrocarbon annually is:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-12/g20-countries-paying-billions-to-fossil-fuel-producers/6936474

 

Supercharger network Tesla is for free use se pic:

 

ICE cars will be outdated within the next decade as the horsetaxi in N.Y. did in the same time. View this and you will discover that a electric car (BEV) has 20 moving parts as compared to ICE cars with above 2000 moving parts : 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree there are many benefits of electric power vehicles, and ease of maintenence is just one of them. To be more precise, use of the Tesla Supercharger network isn't "free," the price is factored into the price of the cars. 

 

As for the upcoming mass-market Model 3, I don't believe Supercharger use is included in the base price of the car. It may be available as an extra-cost option.

[Bangkok Sausage house]

On 26/8/2559 at 7:38 PM, bno said:

 

 

ICE cars will be outdated within the next decade as the horsetaxi in N.Y. did in the same time. View this and you will discover that a electric car (BEV) has 20 moving parts as compared to ICE cars with above 2000 moving parts 

 

Every one of the major ICE manufactures will be screwed in 10 or 12 years.  GM, Toyota, Ford,  BMW... all of them.  When a BEV is clearly better in every single respect, people will stop buying ICE cars.  For example (and I'm pulling these numbers out of the air but they're close enough to illustrate the issue).  If GM has 12 manufacturing plants and has invested $5B on average on each of them, they will then have $60B worth of plants that make cars that nobody will want.  The land and buildings will have value but everything on the inside will have no value.  They will go belly up and it will happen like a landslide.

 

The ICE makers having been delaying the inevitable by doing the "50 ways to delay the electric car revolution" linked in post 45 above.  The only company that appears to take this seriously is Mercedes, they are creating a new brand and are building 2 BEV SUV's and 2 BEV sedans.  This is clearly going against Tesla's 2 suv's and 2 sedans.  Nobody will be buying Mercedes in 10 or 12 years so they are working on building another brand.  At least they understand the future and are taking steps towards it.  Whether they can absorb the cost of closing all their existing plants...time will tell.

[bno]

Very agreed on this assuption- I have droven BEV for the last 5 years. I will purchase the new Mazda2 D in october when partly relocate from Norway to TH. I hate to do it, but while waitig on my Tesla M3 hence commuting for a few years between the two Kingdom I hope a development within the next few years will show token of BEV developement in TH. However Toyota is working hard on  the ICE battle, but eventually the will loose this battle. Disrupt og be disrupted as mentioned by BSh above. In Norway we have about 90000 BEV and a charging network with station on main roads for every 50Km. 20 min. charging and of to go another 250Km. Next genration (3) of BEV is now entering the market with Ampera-e from GM and Hyundai with its amasing Ioneq. Targeting 300+Km and who drives 1000Km without a break on natural couses?.....

Edited August 27, 2016 by bno

[BKKdreaming]

electric cars would go nowhere in Norway if they had to pay the same taxes as "regular" cars , same as the government rebate in the USA and Germany helps sell unwanted E-cars

 

Norway is lucky to have a good supply of hydroelectric power , most countries make electric power with oil and gas, 

 

and the quoted mileage is best condition , not real life for most people , 

 

I like the idea ,  at 300miles / 500km range ( less 30% reality discount)  it would make sense around here , 

but that would also be with airco or heater when needed , and headlights on for night driving.

 

Hydrogen would be nice also , I drove past the only Hydrogen filling station  in the area yesterday , of course no one was using it , but its a nice for Shell to waste some money on , and its across the street from Toyota Headquarters......

 

Electric will not replace oil and gas ,  it will be another option for those people  where the range and recharging works for them

 

 

 

 

[Pdaz]

Oil industry by products are still needed to make the plastics and other materials the cars are built from. Not to mention the lubricants.

[Bangkok Sausage house]

15 hours ago, BKKdreaming said:

electric cars would go nowhere in Norway if they had to pay the same taxes as "regular" cars , same as the government rebate in the USA and Germany helps sell unwanted E-cars

 

Norway is lucky to have a good supply of hydroelectric power , most countries make electric power with oil and gas, 

 

and the quoted mileage is best condition , not real life for most people , 

 

I like the idea ,  at 300miles / 500km range ( less 30% reality discount)  it would make sense around here , 

but that would also be with airco or heater when needed , and headlights on for night driving.

 

Hydrogen would be nice also , I drove past the only Hydrogen filling station  in the area yesterday , of course no one was using it , but its a nice for Shell to waste some money on , and its across the street from Toyota Headquarters......

 

Electric will not replace oil and gas ,  it will be another option for those people  where the range and recharging works for them

 

 

 

 

Hmmmm....are you perhaps an anti BEV person?

Are the cars sold in the US and Germany really unwanted? Or do people actually love them.

Are BEV rebates an advantage that ICE cars don't get?  ICE cars actually cost the government trillions (with a T) more than EV's in total subsidies.

Nobody is quoting 300 miles.  The spec is 200 or 215 miles and is in normal driving conditions with AC and lights used as needed.

When you say Electric will not replace oil and gas, I wonder how you back that up.  The opposite is most likely true and well documented as to why.

[pkspeaker]

Internal Combustion Engine cars being replaced by electric cars 'soon' is laughable, the only reason they are currently viable in the upper-luxury second car, market (seriously how many people have a tesla as their only car) is huge government subsidies they are receiving; And yet somehow they are going to be taking over the reliable economy car market;which is the bulk of the auto industry along with the mid range varieties.  I have been in some affuent area's of the USA recently and only saw a few chargers in the parking structures; and they were usually un-occupied.  

 

slipping into a gas station and refueling in less than 3 minutes is always going to trump these things.

Edited August 30, 2016 by pkspeaker

[bno]

That is correct wrt. SC network. However not finalised. 

My Tesla order  - Tesla Model ≡ RN10779**** 31.03.16  

[bno]

6 hours ago, transam said:

So you reckon folk are waiting to find gas on Mars to transport to Earth when our underground forestry stuff runs out....?

Future is here and sun wil be harvest. Btw. it takes med 10 second to put my garage charging network attached to the car at the eveing. Full and eady for another 150 Km. by the morning. 95% of the time I use the car to go appr. 50-60 Km./day

Edited August 30, 2016 by bno

[bno]

On 27.8.2016 at 10:09 PM, BKKdreaming said:

electric cars would go nowhere in Norway if they had to pay the same taxes as "regular" cars , same as the government rebate in the USA and Germany helps sell unwanted E-cars

 

Norway is lucky to have a good supply of hydroelectric power , most countries make electric power with oil and gas, 

 

and the quoted mileage is best condition , not real life for most people , 

 

I like the idea ,  at 300miles / 500km range ( less 30% reality discount)  it would make sense around here , 

but that would also be with airco or heater when needed , and headlights on for night driving.

 

Hydrogen would be nice also , I drove past the only Hydrogen filling station  in the area yesterday , of course no one was using it , but its a nice for Shell to waste some money on , and its across the street from Toyota Headquarters......

 

Electric will not replace oil and gas ,  it will be another option for those people  where the range and recharging works for them

 

 

 

 

Electric cars subsidies are temporarily. But yes to en extent you right, but once you driven one for a while one would not return to ICE in most cases. Energy sub. from G20 countries on Hydrocarbon industry is in the excess of $650 billion / year. Car manufactures don’t like to cannibalise and do their outmost to make cars no one likes (…) Tesla is the only driving force her at the moment. 

Battery development is improving wrt. density and cost… 

[bno]

6 hours ago, transam said:

So you reckon folk are waiting to find gas on Mars to transport to Earth when our underground forestry stuff runs out....?

I have only my BEV. Tesla owner seems to have only one car and with the upcome of the x version the car will be sufficient as any ICE car.