Boycott camp rejects results of 'fake' referendum

[waitforusalso]

1 minute ago, halloween said:

You forgot "Bangkok elite"

So were the small minority who voted No PTP/Thaksin suporters?

= Junta lovers / Suthep freaks

[robblok]

Just now, Alive said:

 

You're an idiot. Sorry but it is true. You don't see all humans as equals. You're human waste. As for the comment about the 'hordes' coming to BKK. That was started by your twin Halloween. Where was your comment then? You push the lies and propaganda and you support the taking away of human rights and freedom. That's the truth. Yes, you are a fascist and probably a racist xenophobe too.

 

Your funny.. if it was anyone else I would feel insulted you are just sick in the head. Anyone who reads my topics knows i stick up for the Thais.. wonder if a racist / xenophobe would do that.  Someone like you I just pity its bad to have mental problems. 

[waitforusalso]

1 minute ago, ramrod711 said:

 

Yes it was all rigged, no possibility of Thais being sick and tired of the constant discord, or the fact that the Shins cost them billions. You wouldn't be a Trump voter would you?

Rigged????? Surely not?????

Free & fair. Lol!

[Alive]

15 minutes ago, halloween said:

Everybody's a murder loving fascist except the guy inciting civil war and rebellion.

 

Not at all. The murdered's families and friends just want justice. The military hides the killer in its ranks. We need to hear their stories. Until you learn that other people suffer too and other people were killed and their families want the truth and justice, you will never get it. The answers is all the victims want and those in power have them. It's really that simple.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Alive

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, waitforusalso said:

= Junta lovers / Suthep freaks

 

I noticed that you ignored " So were the small minority who voted No PTP/Thaksin supporters? "

 

The implications are not good for red Kool-Aid drinkers, are they?

 

BTW who were those who just didn't bother? Let me guess, they're all PTP voters who decided to wash their hair instead.

 

 

[waitforusalso]

6 minutes ago, halloween said:

 

I noticed that you ignored " So were the small minority who voted No PTP/Thaksin supporters? "

 

The implications are not good for red Kool-Aid drinkers, are they?

 

BTW who were those who just didn't bother? Let me guess, they're all PTP voters who decided to wash their hair instead.

 

 

The majority didn't vote at all because they have been so intimidated by the tyrannical actions of the junta, that they equate expressing a political opinion with Lese majeste.

[Winniedapu]

24 minutes ago, seajae said:

you mean the udd came about because thaksin was pissed off at having all his money confiscated by the thai govt, he organized the rebellion and paid them to trash Bangkok but then being a red/thaksin lover you refuse to acknowledge the truth of it, the deaths were started by the red terrorists that thaksin paid for and told what to do.

 

 

OK, who left the door open? Another one escaped. Own up...

 

Winnie

[smedly]

any Thai I spoke too before and after the vote all wanted the charter approved, none of them mentioned red/yellow/ptp/uud/dems/Thaksin, what they did say was they were fed up with corruption and the only way they believed action would be taken to stop it was with this charter and the junta road map, I agree

 

From what I have seen and from what I believe - this vote was about corruption and nothing else, social media has gone a long way to exposing past governments and authorities for what they really are and most Thais as far as I can determine "are getting it and seeing it for what it is" they want the corruption cheating lies and power abuse to stop and that gets a my vote, I also think a lot of them are shocked at the magnitude and money involved and a silent cheer goes up every time someone is presented to the courts and convicted.....long may it continue

[Alive]

I spoke with a woman who has a Doctorate today and she didn't vote and didn't really have any idea what this charter's changes. She said she probably should have voted. She does research and doesn't pay attention to what is happening. She probably doesn't care either way but she likes to use the word leftist to describe herself which is comical. Of the 300+ people my wife dealt with during the polling up in Esarn, most didn't really know what this was about. Some admitted they made a mistake and voted Yes once they chatted after the vote. In the end our polling booth went No but there were a lot of Yes votes. From what I understand, generally upcountry where we were the people didn't understand this charter. Are farmers going to read the 100+ pages in legalese. This was a joke. 

 

I wonder if the government will recover money lost during this. They must have printed up a lot of papers which now can be used. The last referendum got a lot of funds too which seem to have disappeared the last time I had read about that. Billions are involved in this and every baht should be accounted for. By the way, my wife got 1,000 baht for the day working at the polling station. Make the acountable for the funds/ Stop the hypocrisy.

[halloween]

13 minutes ago, Alive said:

I spoke with a woman who has a Doctorate today and she didn't vote and didn't really have any idea what this charter's changes. She said she probably should have voted. She does research and doesn't pay attention to what is happening. She probably doesn't care either way but she likes to use the word leftist to describe herself which is comical. Of the 300+ people my wife dealt with during the polling up in Esarn, most didn't really know what this was about. Some admitted they made a mistake and voted Yes once they chatted after the vote. In the end our polling booth went No but there were a lot of Yes votes. From what I understand, generally upcountry where we were the people didn't understand this charter. Are farmers going to read the 100+ pages in legalese. This was a joke. 

 

I wonder if the government will recover money lost during this. They must have printed up a lot of papers which now can be used. The last referendum got a lot of funds too which seem to have disappeared the last time I had read about that. Billions are involved in this and every baht should be accounted for. By the way, my wife got 1,000 baht for the day working at the polling station. Make the acountable for the funds/ Stop the hypocrisy.

Perhaps she is a centre leftist rather than a kill-the-elite rabid left wing.

So the poor people didn't understand, and admitted making a mistake and voting yes? Could that have happened a million times, or even 6 million? In deepest Isaan, didn't they know that Thaksin, Yingluk and PTP had advocated a no vote?

 

BTW just because you lost there's no need to get petty. And complaining about printing too many ballot papers is exactly that. Can you imagine what you would be saying if there weren't enough?

Edited August 10, 2016 by halloween

[greenchair]

36 minutes ago, smedly said:

any Thai I spoke too before and after the vote all wanted the charter approved, none of them mentioned red/yellow/ptp/uud/dems/Thaksin, what they did say was they were fed up with corruption and the only way they believed action would be taken to stop it was with this charter and the junta road map, I agree

 

From what I have seen and from what I believe - this vote was about corruption and nothing else, social media has gone a long way to exposing past governments and authorities for what they really are and most Thais as far as I can determine "are getting it and seeing it for what it is" they want the corruption cheating lies and power abuse to stop and that gets a my vote, I also think a lot of them are shocked at the magnitude and money involved and a silent cheer goes up every time someone is presented to the courts and convicted.....long may it continue

Its a pity no one will ever be allowed to investigate corruption in the current administration, therefore no one will ever know the billions possible gleaned from all those great big trillion baht projects. 

It would be an idiot indeed, to believe that out of all the world's corrupt polititions an oasis of honest ones turned up in little ole thailand .????

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

Perhaps she is a centre leftist rather than a kill-the-elite rabid left wing.

So the poor people didn't understand, and admitted making a mistake and voting yes? Could that have happened a million times, or even 6 million? In deepest Isaan, didn't they know that Thaksin, Yingluk and PTP had advocated a no vote?

 

BTW just because you lost there's no need to get petty. And complaining about printing too many ballot papers is exactly that. Can you imagine what you would be saying if there weren't enough?

 

Despite your beliefs all rural people don't vote for PTP or even care about Yingluck. There was no open discussion in the media or by locals to explain the charters positives and negatives. There just wasn't. You could pay a lot of rural people to read the charter and many could; hell even the poor in Bangkok can't and even 'educated' people will toss it.

 

I'm not being petty. I just wanted to post that so that people pick it up. Where are the 23,000,000 unused ballots because only 27,000,000 people voted? There's a lot of waste and corruption by this regime which needs to be addressed.

[candide]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

 

http://thevotingnews.com/want-to-vote-get-fingerprinted-bloomberg-view/   (seems it was proposed in the USA)

 

So what does that say ?

The source you quote is about using fingerprints to identify voters (i.e. instead of showing ID and signing voter list). Not about puting fingerprint on yhe ballot! In all democratic regimes it is absolutely forbidden to put fingerprints or any voter's identification.

So again, same question: why is it that it is forbidden in democratic countries?

Additionally, if as you mentioned it would be impossible to use these fingerprints. What other reason would have the Junta to ask for it except to raise fear among voters!

[halloween]

4 hours ago, Alive said:

 

Despite your beliefs all rural people don't vote for PTP or even care about Yingluck. There was no open discussion in the media or by locals to explain the charters positives and negatives. There just wasn't. You could pay a lot of rural people to read the charter and many could; hell even the poor in Bangkok can't and even 'educated' people will toss it.

 

I'm not being petty. I just wanted to post that so that people pick it up. Where are the 23,000,000 unused ballots because only 27,000,000 people voted? There's a lot of waste and corruption by this regime which needs to be addressed.

You can't see the need to print enough ballots to cover all voters, even more to allow for unexpected distribution? What huge value are you assigning to unused ballot papers?

Perhaps someone is making a huge saving on their toilet paper bill, because I can't think of any other use for unused ballot papers.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

You keep imagining while we see court evidence that Thaksin's children evaded B16 billion in tax.

While you keep imagining there is no corruption in the military and all those general became millionaires through honest means.  They just don't want to tell us what these honest means were.

[metisdead]

Please use discretion in your references to the government. Phrases which can be considered as anti-coup will be removed. Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed. 

[tbthailand]

The referendum has always been a fake. It was a red herring. The problem is the "Roadmap to Democracy" is not democratic, therefore it cannot be actually leading Thailand toward democracy. 

 

Everyone sees it for what it is. The issues are that (1) some Thais like the military running things, and (2) the rest don't know how to get rid of the military ... for good... 

[robblok]

10 hours ago, candide said:

The source you quote is about using fingerprints to identify voters (i.e. instead of showing ID and signing voter list). Not about puting fingerprint on yhe ballot! In all democratic regimes it is absolutely forbidden to put fingerprints or any voter's identification.

So again, same question: why is it that it is forbidden in democratic countries?

Additionally, if as you mentioned it would be impossible to use these fingerprints. What other reason would have the Junta to ask for it except to raise fear among voters!

Its impossible to track all voters back, however if you got fraud (a lot of ballots with the same print) its easy to track back to the person responsible (or at least involved) Because then you only have to track one or a few prints. You don't have to track millions (that is impossible).

 

Just accept your side lost because they just did not want to vote NO or were to lazy to go and vote. I am not perfectly happy with this new constitution either it has good parts (the removal of the statute of limitation on corruption cases and tougher penalties) and bad parts (the appointed senators).

 

 

[robblok]

2 hours ago, tbthailand said:

The referendum has always been a fake. It was a red herring. The problem is the "Roadmap to Democracy" is not democratic, therefore it cannot be actually leading Thailand toward democracy. 

 

Everyone sees it for what it is. The issues are that (1) some Thais like the military running things, and (2) the rest don't know how to get rid of the military ... for good... 

 

Quite a few like the military (see the vote) others did not care (see the people that did not vote) and a small vocal minority wants to get rid of the army. 

[halloween]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

While you keep imagining there is no corruption in the military and all those general became millionaires through honest means.  They just don't want to tell us what these honest means were.

I have no such illusions TYVM.  But I can differentiate between what I imagine and hard reality. But it seems that the hard reality, that the Shinawatras are mega-scale criminals is hard to accept to some of us, preferring the "little Johnny did it too" defence. 

[tbthailand]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

Quite a few like the military (see the vote) others did not care (see the people that did not vote) and a small vocal minority wants to get rid of the army. 

it is obvious that you cannot infer your conclusions from the voting. A yes vote doesn't in any way mean the voter likes the military. 

 

The point is that the referendum was a joke the whole time. Voting yes/no on a turd rolled by the big general is not a step in the direction of democracy, ... it is just another charade put on by an illegitimate "government". 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, tbthailand said:

it is obvious that you cannot infer your conclusions from the voting. A yes vote doesn't in any way mean the voter likes the military. 

 

The point is that the referendum was a joke the whole time. Voting yes/no on a turd rolled by the big general is not a step in the direction of democracy, ... it is just another charade put on by an illegitimate "government". 

 

Then they liked the new constitution that was what the voting was about. That new constitution gives the army a lot of power over politicians (no statute of limitations on corruption and tougher punishment). I am sure Thaksin hates it, he now can't stay in Dubai to wait out all those more serious cases against him. 

[halloween]

6 minutes ago, tbthailand said:

it is obvious that you cannot infer your conclusions from the voting. A yes vote doesn't in any way mean the voter likes the military. 

 

The point is that the referendum was a joke the whole time. Voting yes/no on a turd rolled by the big general is not a step in the direction of democracy, ... it is just another charade put on by an illegitimate "government". 

Could you offer an alternative rather than an anti-junta rant? Did people vote Yes for both the proposed charter and an appointed senate because the DIDN'T like the proposals?

[baboon]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

Then they liked the new constitution that was what the voting was about. That new constitution gives the army a lot of power over politicians (no statute of limitations on corruption and tougher punishment). I am sure Thaksin hates it, he now can't stay in Dubai to wait out all those more serious cases against him. 

When will they be forthcoming, then? Posthumously perhaps, as it has been 10 years and counting so far?

[robblok]

Just now, baboon said:

When will they be forthcoming, then? Posthumously perhaps, as it has been 10 years and counting so far?

 

Problem is here that you can't try a case in absentia. That is why he can wait them out.  (please correct me if I am wrong cause this is what I have read and have been told)

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, baboon said:

When will they be forthcoming, then? Posthumously perhaps, as it has been 10 years and counting so far?

We're hoping posthumously comes sooner rather than later.

[JAG]

45 minutes ago, robblok said:

Its impossible to track all voters back, however if you got fraud (a lot of ballots with the same print) its easy to track back to the person responsible (or at least involved) Because then you only have to track one or a few prints. You don't have to track millions (that is impossible).

 

Just accept your side lost because they just did not want to vote NO or were to lazy to go and vote. I am not perfectly happy with this new constitution either it has good parts (the removal of the statute of limitation on corruption cases and tougher penalties) and bad parts (the appointed senators).

 

 

The real ability to identify who voted how through fingerprint  analysis is perhaps irrelevant. The perception that the Army can is sufficient. I rather suspect that is one explanation for the relatively low turnout. If that is the case then it is a major hole in the integrity of the process.

Edited August 11, 2016 by JAG

[robblok]

Just now, JAG said:

The real ability to identify who voted how through fingerpront analysis is perhaps itrelevant. The perception that the Army can is sufficient. I rather suspect that is one explanation for the telatively low turnout. If that is the case then it is a major hole in the integrity of the process.

 

You could say so and it might, but the fact that its impossible and ad to that the fact that once they start punishing those who voted no that there would be an outcry makes it highly unlikely. 

 

But for some it could have been a reason, I can't say its not so because in the mind of some it might be the case. However previous elections and votes also did not have huge turnouts (especially when voting about a charter) and those did not have fingerprints. 

 

Elections are still viewed as more important with a higher turnout. (and you can deny it but its done) people are paid to vote. (now if that changes a vote or not it does help to increase turnout)

[JAG]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

You could say so and it might, but the fact that its impossible and ad to that the fact that once they start punishing those who voted no that there would be an outcry makes it highly unlikely. 

 

But for some it could have been a reason, I can't say its not so because in the mind of some it might be the case. However previous elections and votes also did not have huge turnouts (especially when voting about a charter) and those did not have fingerprints. 

 

Elections are still viewed as more important with a higher turnout. (and you can deny it but its done) people are paid to vote. (now if that changes a vote or not it does help to increase turnout)

I don't agree that it is impossible. Consider that the average rural polling station has what - about 500 or so voters. Now if the authorities wanted to know how let us say 10 known individuals voted then it is only a case of sifting 500 ballot papers. Time consuming yes, tedious very possibly, but certainly practical.

 

It has long been discussed here that the only long term way in which the current governing faction can retain power (without using force) is through effectively disenfranchising the geographical areas and socio economic classes which consistently reject them at the ballot boxes.

 

The fingerprint system may be a means of persuading them to disenfranchise themselves?

 

I'm sure that many will shout "conspiracy theory", but I think that there may be something in it.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

I don't agree that it is impossible. Consider that the average rural polling station has what - about 500 or so voters. Now if the authorities wanted to know how let us say 10 known individuals voted then it is only a case of sifting 500 ballot papers. Time consuming yes, tedious very possibly, but certainly practical.

 

It has long been discussed here that the only long term way in which the current governing faction can retain power (without using force) is through effectively disenfranchising the geographical areas and socio economic classes which consistently reject them at the ballot boxes.

 

The fingerprint system may be a means of persuading them to disenfranchise themselves?

 

I'm sure that many will shout "conspiracy theory", but I think that there may be something in it.

 

Indeed im shouting conspiracy, I just told you that the other charters had similar turnout percentages and that only elections had higher ones and gave a good explanation (money and perceived importance) but you go on hammering about the fingerprints.

 

In an other topic turnout percentages were given for the previous charter and as far as i remember it was not that much different.