Russia says it has thwarted armed Ukrainian raids on Crimea

[craigt3365]

7 hours ago, AlexStepashkin said:

 

It doesn't.

Then why are Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine and killing Ukraine people?  I'd call that a war.  Putin even admits his soldiers are there fighting.  But there only on holiday.

[volka]

3 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Then why are Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine and killing Ukraine people?  I'd call that a war.  Putin even admits his soldiers are there fighting.  But there only on holiday.

May be because Ukrainian soldiers are killing Russian people ?

[craigt3365]

6 hours ago, volka said:

do you have a credible, independent source to back up this claims?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution

Quote

Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership in Vilnius, Lithuania, choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for €20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid.^[61] The EU was willing to offer €610 million ($838 million) in loans,^[62] but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion,^[62] as well as cheaper gas prices.^[62] In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not.^[61] Russia also applied economic pressure on Ukraine and launched a propaganda campaign against the EU deal.^[63]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Quote

In late February 2014, Yanukovych and many other high government officials fled the country. Protesters gained control of the presidential administration and Yanukovych's private estate. Subsequently, the parliament removed Yanukovych from office, replaced the government with a pro-European one, and ordered that former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko be released from prison. Events in Kiev were soon followed by the Crimean crisis and pro-Russian unrest in Eastern Ukraine. Despite the impeachment of Yanukovych,^[85] the installation of a new government, and the adoption of the Ukraine-EU Association Agreement's political provisions, the protests have sustained pressure on the government to reject Russian influence in Ukraine.

 

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, volka said:

May be because Ukrainian soldiers are killing Russian people ?

Perhaps the Russian soldiers should leave?  Then, no killing.  Start with the source.  Russia invading a sovereign country.  Just like it has done in Georgia, Ukraine, Chechnya, Moldova.

 

I was just in Georgia.  They don't like Russia there at all.  And for good reasons.

[volka]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

 

Since what times wiki became reliable and independent source ? And how does it support your statement people wanted NATO?

 

if you recall some year ago, Ukrainians burned people alive in Odessa, so you perfectly ok with that?

 

see or hear any one being charged for this?

[craigt3365]

6 minutes ago, volka said:

Since what times wiki became reliable and independent source ? And how does it support your statement people wanted NATO?

 

if you recall some year ago, Ukrainians burned people alive in Odessa, so you perfectly ok with that?

 

see or hear any one being charged for this?

They didn't want NATO.  Read the article.  They wanted closer ties with the EU and not with Russia.  Wiki is not perfect, but it's a great place to go for some initial info.  You're more than welcome to research this more closely.  Plenty of info out there on the web to verify the Wiki content.

 

The Odessa disaster was a riot between Pro-Russian protesters and Pro-Ukraine protesters. Seems the Pro-Russian protesters helped with the burning:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes#Trade_Unions_House_fire

Quote

While defending the building, militants on the roof tossed rocks and petrol bombs at the protesters below.^{[23][27][37][51]} A report by the Ukrainian Independent Information Agency (UNIAN) said that the pro-Ukraine crowd began to throw petrol bombs into the building after having been fired upon by the pro-Russian group.^[52]BBC News said that the situation was unclear, with multiple sources indicating that both sides had been throwing petrol bombs at each other. One eyewitness told the BBC that the fire started on the third floor when a petrol bomb was thrown at a closed window from inside the building, and the Kyiv Post reported that several flaming bottles held by Ukrainian unity activists outside were thrown into the front entrance, and through the windows on the second and fourth floors.^[23][36][37]An official investigation conducted by the Ukrainian Interior Ministry stated that while no firearms were found inside the building, those on the roof were shooting at the crowd below, and accidentally set the building on fire whilst throwing petrol bombs from above.

 

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic and link to reputable news sites only.  Please.

[Naam]

19 hours ago, halloween said:

If he pushes the border south, they will still be on the border. You know Hitler used the same excuse to start annexing parts of his neighbours.

 

please brush up your history knowledge 

[Naam]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Could be. Then put it to a vote, one that's clean, and supported by the Ukraine government.  It's also up to the rest of the population in Ukraine.  It is a sovereign country with designated borders.  If the locals don't like living in Ukraine, then move!  Not hard to do.

 

But you can't just invade a country and take it's land.  That's illegal.  And just being a bully. 

 

invading a country and taking its land is a millennia old tradition. old conquerors are revered as heroes (Alexander the Great and William the Conqueror just to name two). and that countries are invaded under false pretense to conquer its land or resources happens nowadays too.

[halloween]

28 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

please brush up your history knowledge 

My history knowledge is fine TYVM. If all the Kiwis in Oz decided to move to Tasmania, then decided they'd like to remain Kiwis, would that give Enzed the right to annex its West Island?

[craigt3365]

From the EU:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/world-powers-call-calm-crimea-113255335.html

 

 

Quote

 

The European Union said there was no independent confirmation of claims that Ukrainian troops had killed two Russian servicemen in Crimea, which Putin has warned would bring a “very serious” response. The 28-member bloc called on both sides to refrain from intensifying what has become the worst diplomatic standoff between the two countries since a 2015 truce eased hostilities in Ukraine’s separatist conflict.

“We reiterate our condemnation and non-recognition of the illegal annexation of Crimea,” European Commission spokesman Alexandre Polack said in Brussels on Friday. “There has been neither concrete evidence provided by Russia sustaining its claim nor any independent confirmation of the claims made by Russian authorities.”

The confrontation coincides with a surge in violence in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region, where government troops are fighting rebels who Kiev says are getting cash, weapons and fighters from Russia. The flareup torpedoed plans to revive four-way peace talks at the September G-20 meeting in China and raised warnings from analysts of a potential military conflict before Russia’s September parliamentary elections.

 

 

[ballpoint]

10 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Then why are Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine and killing Ukraine people?  I'd call that a war.  Putin even admits his soldiers are there fighting.  But there only on holiday.

They could be fighting in their spare time.

[Guest]

On 8/11/2016 at 5:17 AM, webfact said:

The FSB says it tackled one group of what it describes as Ukrainian “saboteurs” in the early hours of Sunday, smashing what it says was a Ukrainian “spy network”.

 

Ukrainian and Russian nationals were arrested.

 

20 homemade explosive devices, ammunition, mines, grenades and weapons normally used by Ukrainian special forces were recovered, the FSB said, adding that there were more incidents late on Sunday and early on Monday.

 

And then there is the Moon phase, which FSB didn't notice when they were making the 'proof' video. 

 

Quote

On August 10, the Russian state TV network Channel One aired a news segment with footage from the FSB supposedly depicting the results of a special operation by federal police on August 8: the discovery of dozens of improvised explosive devices, mines, and ammunition, supposedly recovered from Ukrainian spies. Slightly later in the broadcast, there is a brief shot of the Crimean sky with a full moon

https://globalvoices.org/2016/08/13/astronomy-may-have-just-debunked-russias-claims-about-a-ukrainian-incursion-into-crimea/

 

 

 

[Guest]

So, Russia just started a real war in Eastern Ukraine? 
 

 

[craigt3365]

A "real" war has been going on for a long time there.  Russia just doesn't want to admit it.  Luckily, it's well known.