Retirement Extension Seasoning of Funds Question

[Kabula]

My retirement extension expires on November 1, 2016.

This will be my third retirement extension. (3 months of seasoning required)

I deposited 800,000+ in my savings account on July 21, 2016, which gives me the 3 months required if I filed my application the end of October, 2016. (Remainder of July, August, September and October)

I have to leave Thailand on September 23, 2016, and I’m not sure when I can return.

I was planning on going to District 1, Immigration in Bangkok 45 days early, as I have done before, on September 20, 2016, to file for my extension.

 

My question is would Immigration make an exception regarding the 3 month rule at the time of the early application with travel documents and look at the July deposit date and the November 1 expiration date which would be over 90 days of seasoning.   The bank funds will remain in the bank for one year. They have already been in part of July, all of August, and will be in 20 days in September.

 

Thank you.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Kabula
Space correction

[ubonjoe]

The money has to be in the bank for 3 months on the date you apply for the extension.

I doubt very much immigration would wave that requirement since it is written in the police order.

[lopburi3]

Is there any chance of using a combined deposit and pension letter?  That would probably be accepted.  

 

[Kabula]

26 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Is there any chance of using a combined deposit and pension letter?  That would probably be accepted.  

 

Thank you for your Interesting comment.

 

I do have a pension and would qualify if Immigration accepted the combination pension, Thai bank deposit under rule 5 and waived the 3 month rule.

 

Urbon Joe, please forward a followup comment on this now that I have revealed I have foreign income I could use.  Thank you for your first comment.

 

Attached is a screen shot taken from the recent Thai Immigration Website regarding the retirement extension rules.

The content in (#5) does not mention, 'for the past 3 months seasoning of funds.'  It simply states the combination must total no less than 800,000 as of the filing date. 

 

As I recall, I have read in the past some offices, I believe Pattaya Immigration was approving combination income retirement application extensions without funds being seasoned for 3 months.

 

I would be interested in hearing from anyone that recently had their retirement extension application approved using the combination method without the seasoning of bank funds and what office approved it.

 

 

 

[Lite Beer]

As far as I know the money still has to be in the bank for 3 months when using the combination method.

It is in Khon Kaen when I asked.

[ubonjoe]

It has been reported in earlier posts that Bangkok immigration was wanting the funds to be in the bank for 3 months. But I don't recall any recent posts mentioning it.

It may be done on a case by case basis dependent upon the ratio of income to money in the bank. It seems that they want the income to be greater than the money in the bank.

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, Kabula said:

Thank you for your Interesting comment.

 

I do have a pension and would qualify if Immigration accepted the combination pension, Thai bank deposit under rule 5 and waived the 3 month rule.

 

Urbon Joe, please forward a followup comment on this now that I have revealed I have foreign income I could use.  Thank you for your first comment.

 

Attached is a screen shot taken from the recent Thai Immigration Website regarding the retirement extension rules.

The content in (#5) does not mention, 'for the past 3 months seasoning of funds.'  It simply states the combination must total no less than 800,000 as of the filing date. 

 

As I recall, I have read in the past some offices, I believe Pattaya Immigration was approving combination income retirement application extensions without funds being seasoned for 3 months.

 

I would be interested in hearing from anyone that recently had their retirement extension application approved using the combination method without the seasoning of bank funds and what office approved it.

 

 

 

 

Am I missing something here.

 

The last paragraph says, 60 years of age or over can have 200,000baht banked and a monthly income of 20,000 baht, have I read it wrong?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Am I missing something here.

 

The last paragraph says, 60 years of age or over can have 200,000baht banked and a monthly income of 20,000 baht, have I read it wrong?

Read number 6 and you will understand what it is about.

Quote

(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

 

[Kabula]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Read number 6 and you will understand what it is about.

 

Thank you for the clarification.  I will not qualify for that.

[OJAS]

The only practical course of action open to you might well be to start all over again from scratch with a fresh non-O visa when you have some idea of when you will be returning to Thailand. If you can't obtain one in your home country (which is where I assume you will be flying to on 23rd September), then your best bet might be to fly back on the basis of the standard 30-day stamp on arrival and then (since you appear to live in Bangkok) apply for a non-O conversion at Chaengwattana Immigration. Be sure to book a cheap throwaway onward flight ticket out of Thailand within these 30 days before your return flight, though, since otherwise you might run the risk of being denied boarding this at check-in.

Edited September 6, 2016 by OJAS

[Smokin Joe]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Is there any chance of using a combined deposit and pension letter?  That would probably be accepted.  

 

 

Not sure why this isn't what everyone is recommending. No seasoning requirement, so problem solved. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

Not sure why this isn't what everyone is recommending. No seasoning requirement, so problem solved. 

In recent years, some offices are  enforcing seasoning requirements on combination applications. So it's better to prepare seasoning for both full bank account and also combo applications. As said, if you haven't, it can't hurt to try to get a combo application without seasoning accepted. 

[roobaa01]

might be worthwhile to think about somewhat expensive elite visa solution.

 

wbr

roobaa01

 

 

[OJAS]

7 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

might be worthwhile to think about somewhat expensive elite visa solution.

 

wbr

roobaa01

 

 

 

A fresh non-O visa as I suggested in post #10 would definitely be far cheaper for the OP if it came to that!

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

might be worthwhile to think about somewhat expensive elite visa solution.

 

wbr

roobaa01

 

 

Completely unnecessary. Worst case if can't do a combo based on seasoning enforcement -- new O visa in neighboring country.

[Kabula]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

In recent years, some offices are  enforcing seasoning requirements on combination applications. So it's better to prepare seasoning for both full bank account and also combo applications. As said, if you haven't, it can't hurt to try to get a combo application without seasoning accepted. 

 

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Completely unnecessary. Worst case if can't do a combo based on seasoning enforcement -- new O visa in neighboring country.

Does anyone know if Bangkok District 1 Immigration Office enforce seasoning of bank funds on the combination method.  If so, was it recently.  Is it possible to telephone them and speak with a Immigration Supervisor?

[elviajero]

18 minutes ago, Kabula said:

 

Does anyone know if Bangkok District 1 Immigration Office enforce seasoning of bank funds on the combination method.  If so, was it recently.  Is it possible to telephone them and speak with a Immigration Supervisor?

Yes they do. However, if the income is high and the amount in the bank small they do have the authority/discretion to waive the seasoning on a case by case basis, but it would be entirely up to the IO's processing/signing off the application. The only way you can find out for sure is to apply on that basis. If you ask a help line they will probably tell you that seasoning will be required in all cases.

Edited September 6, 2016 by elviajero

[OMGImInPattaya]

5 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

might be worthwhile to think about somewhat expensive elite visa solution.

 

wbr

roobaa01

 

 

Or just depositing 800k (+) in the bank and just leaving it there.

[Smokin Joe]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Yes they do. However, if the income is high and the amount in the bank small they do have the authority/discretion to waive the seasoning on a case by case basis, but it would be entirely up to the IO's processing/signing off the application. The only way you can find out for sure is to apply on that basis. If you ask a help line they will probably tell you that seasoning will be required in all cases.

 

I'm not saying that they don't reject applications like this, but you can't waive a requirement that doesn't exist. What you're saying is that they may impose an additional requirement.  

 

 

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

I'm not saying that they don't reject applications like this, but you can't waive a requirement that doesn't exist. What you're saying is that they may impose an additional requirement.  

No, the requirement for seasoning exists.

 

The standard for applications processed at CW is that the funds must be seasoned for 2 or 3 months even if it is an application using a combination of income/cash in the bank.

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, elviajero said:

No, the requirement for seasoning exists.

 

The standard for applications processed at CW is that the funds must be seasoned for 2 or 3 months even if it is an application using a combination of income/cash in the bank.

There is no written rule that seasoning is required for the combination method. There are only local requirements that some immigration offices are setting for them.

[Boon Mee]

13 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Or just depositing 800k (+) in the bank and just leaving it there.

That's the easiest method.  Leave it and forget it. 

[Kabula]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no written rule that seasoning is required for the combination method. There are only local requirements that some immigration offices are setting for them.

 

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no written rule that seasoning is required for the combination method. There are only local requirements that some immigration offices are setting for them.

 

[Evilbaz]

Local requirements = rules for the alien applicant.

[Kabula]

Thank you for all the interesting information. Hopefully it will be helpful to many.

 

I agree there is no written rule of law that seasoning is required for the combination method. The last big word in sentance 4, is the 'OR' word.  Clearly, that separates the rule between 4 and 5, and changes the intent.

 

i decided to go to Immigration with all my supporting documents and extension application and if denied coming early, ask for consideration, I will explain that a precedent has been established recently by Immigration Officers reviewing similar situations and they were reviewed on a case to case basics.  I will respectfully request the same consideration.  I will post the outcome and hopefully a happy face will appear!

Edited September 7, 2016 by Kabula
Removed a comma

[IMA_FARANG]

Since 2014 CW has been wanting a 3 month seasoning period for thode using the "combination" method of savings account and montly income.

This is at least partially deprndent on the immigration officer's interpretation  of the rules and the amount of the yearly total income.

Close to 800K yearly for the combo method they may insist on a 3 month seasoning period, if your total annual income is close to 1 illion Baht annually, thy msy give you somr slack on the "seasoning" periodtime.

But all that is a judgement call by the immigration oficer.

In general, howeve, they will say you should have a 3 month seasonning period

 

[elviajero]

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no written rule that seasoning is required for the combination method. There are only local requirements that some immigration offices are setting for them.

I was referring to the "local requirement" at CW.

 

However, there has been a change to the written rule since the last Police Orders were published. The rules are written on the Immigration website, and the change/confirmation of policy, that is over 2 years old, has been confirmed by reports from TV members at many offices including the main/busier ones.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;        2.1  In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.        -  The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)      -  Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or          2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare      -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;         2.3  In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, elviajero said:

I was referring to the "local requirement" at CW.

 

However, there has been a change to the written rule since the last Police Orders were published. The rules are written on the Immigration website, and the change/confirmation of policy, that is over 2 years old, has been confirmed by reports from TV members at many offices including the main/busier ones.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;        2.1  In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.        -  The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)      -  Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or          2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare      -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;         2.3  In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

There was no change to clause 2.22 in the last police order or the previous 2 police orders. It has been the same. From police order 327/2557.

Quote

(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.

The frequently asked questions are not a valid source of info..

If you go to this page on the Bamgkok  immigration website you can find the requirements for an extension based upon retirement that states the same thing as the police order but you need to use IE or a browser with an extension for IE to to open them. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service

It is only a local policy at some immigration offices for the seasoning. There has been no change to the rules.

[elviajero]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There was no change to clause 2.22 in the last police order or the previous 2 police orders. It has been the same. From police order 327/2557.

The frequently asked questions are not a valid source of info..

If you go to this page on the Bamgkok  immigration website you can find the requirements for an extension based upon retirement that states the same thing as the police order but you need to use IE or a browser with an extension for IE to to open them. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service

It is only a local policy at some immigration offices for the seasoning. There has been no change to the rules.

The police orders are not changed until a new set of orders are issued. But what you fail to accept is that additional orders concerning the enforcement of the published police orders are issued without the Bureau issuing a new full set of orders. Orders regarding the combination were issued at a national level at some point in 2014.

 

The FAQ's are regularly updated, and have been updated since the police orders were last issued. They are definitely a valid source of info.

 

 

[Kabula]

A good example why the rule of law should be followed countrywide by all Officers to avoid mass confusion.

 

It would also make the Officer's jobs much less stressful and save all parties time in the office and on the road.