80 million unexploded bombs: Obama pledges US help for Laos

[webfact]

80 million unexploded bombs: Obama pledges US help for Laos

By JOSH LEDERMAN and KATHLEEN HENNESSEY

 

VIENTIANE, Laos (AP) — Declaring a "moral obligation" to heal the wounds of a secret war, President Barack Obama on Tuesday pledged help to clear away the 80 million unexploded bombs the U.S. dropped on Laos a generation ago — more than 10 for every one of the country's 7 million people.

 

Half a century ago, the United States turned Laos into history's most heavily bombed country, raining down some two million tons of ordnance in a covert, nine-year chapter of the Vietnam War. Obama the first president to set foot in Laos while in office, lamented that many Americans remain unaware of the "painful legacy" left behind by a bombardment that claims lives and limbs to this day.

 

"The remnants of war continue to shatter lives here in Laos," Obama said before an audience of students, businessmen and orange-robed Buddhist monks who held up cellphones to snap photos of the American president. "Even as we continue to deal with the past, our new partnership is focused on the future," he said.

 

To that end, Obama announced the U.S. would double its spending on bomb-clearing efforts to $90 million over three years — a relatively small sum for the U.S. but a significant investment for a small country in one of the poorer corners of the world. Obama plans to put a human face on the issue when he meets Wednesday in Vientiane with survivors of bombs that America dropped.

 

The president did not come to apologize. Instead, he called the conflict a reminder that "whatever the cause, whatever our intentions, war inflicts a terrible toll — especially on innocent men, women and children."

 

Thanks to global cleanup efforts, casualties from tennis ball-sized "bombies" that still litter the Laotian countryside have plummeted from hundreds to dozens per year. But aid groups say far more help is needed. Of all the provinces in landlocked Laos, only one has a comprehensive system to care for bomb survivors.

 

"We're incredibly proud of the progress the sector has made over the last five years in terms of the decline in casualties and new victims," said Channapha Khamvongsa of the nonprofit Legacies of War. "But we are concerned about the upwards of 15,000 survivors around the country that are still in need of support."

 

The $90 million to clean up bombs joins another $100 million the U.S. has committed in the past 20 years. The Lao government, meanwhile, says it will boost efforts to recover remains and account for Americans missing since the war.

 

The punishing air campaign on Laos was an effort to cut off communist forces in neighboring Vietnam. American warplanes dropped more explosives on this Southeast Asian nation than on Germany and Japan combined in World War II, a stunning statistic that Obama noted during his first day in Vientiane.

 

Obama was one of several world leaders visiting Laos to attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Taking its turn as chair of the regional forum, Laos' communist government is seizing a rare moment in the spotlight.

 

For Obama, the visit serves as a capstone to his yearslong effort to bolster relations with Southeast Asian countries long overlooked by the United States. The outreach is a core element of his attempt to shift U.S. diplomatic and military resources away from the Middle East and into Asia in order to counter China in the region and ensure a U.S. foothold in growing markets.

 

Yet Obama's outreach took an uncomfortable turn just as he headed to Laos from another summit in China. The White House called off a scheduled meeting Tuesday with President Rodrigo Duterte of the Philippine — a U.S. treaty ally — after the brash new leader referred to Obama as a "son of a bitch."

 

Duterte, who had been expecting Obama to criticize his deadly, extrajudicial crackdown on drug dealers, later said he regretted the personal attack on the president.

 

Obama filled the hole in his schedule by meeting with South Korean President Park Geun-hye in a display of unity a day after North Korea fired three ballistic missiles. Obama vowed to work with the United Nations to tighten sanctions against Pyongyang, but said the door wasn't closed to a more functional relationship.

 

Obama's Asia project — dubbed his pivot or rebalance — has yielded uneven results, as conflict in the Middle East has continued to demand attention and China has bristled at what it views as meddling in its backyard.

 

So with just four months left in office, Obama used his historic trip to Laos to reassert his aims. He touted new military aid and U.S. support for regional cooperation in addressing maritime disputes and made a plug for the massive Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade agreement, the policy's central economic component that is now stuck in Congress.

___

Daniel Malloy in Luang Prabang, Laos, contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-09-07

[Trouble]

I'm all for giving the money to help this cause.  I just hope the US is accounting for spending as we know how corrupt government officials can be.  I would be happier if the US Embassy just did the contracting out to get this done and watched the money flow.  Too often the US just gives the money and it sort of gets lost.  Hope it helps to clean up the mess.

[Graemej100]

Wow. The US has been paying the massive sum of $5 million every year, for the last 20 years, to clean up the damage from Vietnam - or as the Vietnamese say 'The American War'. 80,000,000 unexploded US bombs in a country they were not at war with - or at least, not declared. Now they're going to give another $90 million. How extremely generous of the US. I wonder how many more will die before, if ever, those bombs are cleared. Still, $90 million should appease somewhat. They can say, 'at least we tried'.

[KKr]

Did not know the USA had dropped so much ordinance on Laos.
The Generals must have thought about it, and have concluded that it was absolutely necessary to save lives.

The contribution is about a dollar per device.
Looks like a pittance in comparison to the real cost of  a serious and coordinated de-mining operation.
(In Sri Lanka, some areas were swept three times before they were cleared for agricultural or residential use.)
 

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

The USA should have to pay for this and all illegal wars that they have waged over the decades.

 

I don't think the just over $1 for each unexploded bomb is really enough though.

 

If 80 million bombs didn't explode, how many millions of bombs did explode? Pure evil.

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

The USA should have to pay for this and all illegal wars that they have waged over the decades.

 

I don't think the just over $1 for each unexploded bomb is really enough though.

 

If 80 million bombs didn't explode, how many millions of bombs did explode? Pure evil.

I do believe it was the French that started most of the troubles in this area.  The US stepped in to counter the USSR's presence.  Laos had North Vietnamese Army regulars inside and were being supplied by the USSR for some time, moving weapons along the HCM trail.  It's a mess, but impossible to blame only one country for this.  As many would like to do...an interesting read:

 

https://www.quora.com/What-was-going-on-in-Laos-during-the-Vietnam-war

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I do believe it was the French that started most of the troubles in this area.  The US stepped in to counter the USSR's presence.  Laos had North Vietnamese Army regulars inside and were being supplied by the USSR for some time, moving weapons along the HCM trail.  It's a mess, but impossible to blame only one country for this.  As many would like to do...an interesting read:

 

https://www.quora.com/What-was-going-on-in-Laos-during-the-Vietnam-war

I didn't say the USA was the only ones that were evil, but their actions here were illegal and evil. 

 

They were not allowed by their own laws and congress, to bomb Laos or Cambodia yet they did, relentlessly. To the point where neither of these countries have recovered to this day.

 

This was a big cold war game between the US and USSR. The US lost in Vietnam, and what happened? Did the world end? No!!

 

60,000 US boys died, hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese. Who knows how many were killed in Cambodia and in Laos by illegal bombing that should be considered a war crime and crimes against humanity.

 

This also made it possible for the Khmer Rouge to come into power resulting in an estimated 2 million deaths.

 

Some speculate that Kennedy was assassinated to make way for this war to happen.

 

Was it really about keeping the world safe? Because losing the war didn't seem to make it less safe.

 

Or was this war and most others, just about the rich getting richer, while slaughtering innocent people to make it happen?

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

I didn't say the USA was the only ones that were evil, but their actions here were illegal and evil.

Agreed.  As were the actions of the others involved.  And the ones before them, etc.  Hopefully the world will wake up and stop this nonsense.

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Agreed.  As were the actions of the others involved.  And the ones before them, etc.  Hopefully the world will wake up and stop this nonsense.

 

Well said, it's 2016 and human beings still haven't learned how to get along with each other. Additionally war makes big profits for a few, as the evils of capitalism come quickly into the picture.

 

What has the UN actually achieved in terms of progress towards a world without war? Nothing. 

[Pimay1]

Who counted the bombs and came up with 80 million?

[Chicog]

Just now, Pimay1 said:

Who counted the bombs and came up with 80 million?

 

The GAO?

 

[LawrenceChee]

Who counted the bombs and came up with 80 million?

Does the actual number matter ? It's the raining of bombs on a country not involved in a war and became a victim that is the crux of the matter

It's stinks and when you look at the Middle East ...no lesson has been learnt . The USA continue to arm conflicts because these industries contribute to the political fundings

Saddam used to be a friend ...got arms and then became the enemy ...country got bombed and he was killed ....Afghans were friends ...then gone ...got bombed ....Kurd were friends ...given arms ....now some parts became ISIS ...got bombed by Turkey and the rest ....parts of anti Isis resistant groups now in Syria got armed ....became a Friend ...10 years later ? Who knows its a bloody cycle


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[12DrinkMore]

1 hour ago, KKr said:

Did not know the USA had dropped so much ordinance on Laos.
The Generals must have thought about it, and have concluded that it was absolutely necessary to save lives.

The contribution is about a dollar per device.
Looks like a pittance in comparison to the real cost of  a serious and coordinated de-mining operation.
(In Sri Lanka, some areas were swept three times before they were cleared for agricultural or residential use.)
 

 

Na, it was the CIA stirring up sh1t again with their agenda against communism.

 

The US involvement in Vietnam and Laos was criminal, and in the end came out on the losing side in both countries.

[Shawn0000]

1 hour ago, KKr said:

Did not know the USA had dropped so much ordinance on Laos.
The Generals must have thought about it, and have concluded that it was absolutely necessary to save lives.

The contribution is about a dollar per device.
Looks like a pittance in comparison to the real cost of  a serious and coordinated de-mining operation.
(In Sri Lanka, some areas were swept three times before they were cleared for agricultural or residential use.)
 

 

Bombs, absolutely necessary to save lives?  What in that war had anything to do with saving anyone's life?  The war was about preventing the spread of Communism, no ones life was at risk until the bombs started dropping.

[Shawn0000]

27 minutes ago, Pimay1 said:

Who counted the bombs and came up with 80 million?

 

The Lao National Unexploded Ordnance Programme in 2009, of the 270 million cluster bombs it is estimated that 80 million failed to explode, these are spread out over 50% of the country and so far have killed 50,000 people.

[mankondang]

1 hour ago, KKr said:

DI'veot know the USA had dthink opped so much ordinan ce on Laos.
The Generals must have thought about it, and havebcluded that it was abs olutely necessary teives.

The contributio n is about a dollar per device.
Looks like a pittance in comparison to the real cost of  a serious and coordinated de-mining operation.
(In Sri Lanka, some areas were swept three times before they were cleared for agricultural or residential use.)
 

 

Laos has never been to war, yet it is the most bombed country in the world. During the Vietnam/American war, the CIA along with US armed services, built a secret (at the time) airforce base, the size of a small city in the very north of Laos (Sorry i do not remember it's name, but apparently it can be visited today). To that fact Laos was an US allay. Some of the reasons, i've been given for the bombings are, that bomb laden planes never return to base, but jettison the bombs prior to landing. Also, again i've been told, the border lines between Vietnam/Laos in the mountainous forest regions were not that clear and mistakes were made. I find the latter hard to comprehend, as this happened too often. This leaves me, unfortunately, thinking that the US did not care as to whether the bombs landed in Laos or Vietnam at the time, as many considered them allays to the communists.

Re the doubling of the grant from 45 M to 90 M, i think its a pittance, compared with the value of the bombs dropped and the pain, suffering and deaths that are still happening today.

[thaiguzzi]

Next time anybody is having a visit in Vientiane, take a couple of hours off wining and dining, get a tuk tuk or taxi to take you to the COPE museum and charity. Have a walk around. Watch the films, listen to the narration, read the subtitles. Oh, and make sure you bring some tissues, you WILL weep. Grown men cry etc...

[craigt3365]

43 minutes ago, bangkapi said:

This is part of the reason US is approaching $20 trillion debt.

Sad and disgusting meddling war mongering nation.

They could buy peace with a small fraction of the money wasted on the military industrial complex.

Agreed.  Sadly, the same comment could be made about several other world powers right now.  Selling weapons is big business to many countries.  Unfortunately.

[craigt3365]

27 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Na, it was the CIA stirring up sh1t again with their agenda against communism.

 

The US involvement in Vietnam and Laos was criminal, and in the end came out on the losing side in both countries.

Let's remember what started this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War

 

Quote

The First Indochina War (generally known as the Indochina War in France, and as the Anti-French Resistance War in contemporary^{[clarification needed]}Vietnam) began in French Indochina on 19 December 1946 and lasted until 1 August 1954. Fighting between French forces and their Viet Minh opponents in the South dated from September 1945. The conflict pitted a range of forces, including the French Union's French Far East Expeditionary Corps, led by France and supported by Emperor Bảo Đại's Vietnamese National Army against the Viet Minh, led by Ho Chi Minh and its People's Army of Vietnam led by Vo Nguyen Giap. Most of the fighting took place in Tonkin in Northern Vietnam, although the conflict engulfed the entire country and also extended into the neighboring French Indochina protectorates of Laos and Cambodia.

 

[soalbundy]

It would seem to me that the company making the fuses need help 

[Shawn0000]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Let's remember what started this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War

 

 

 

This would be the part to quote: 

 

Quote

 

The Geneva Accords promised elections in 1956 to determine a national government for a united Vietnam. Neither the United States government nor Ngo Dinh Diem's State of Vietnam signed anything at the 1954 Geneva Conference. With respect to the question of reunification, the non-communist Vietnamese delegation objected strenuously to any division of Vietnam, but lost out when the French accepted the proposal of Viet Minh delegate Pham Van Dong,[56] who proposed that Vietnam eventually be united by elections under the supervision of "local commissions".[57] The United States countered with what became known as the "American Plan", with the support of South Vietnam and the United Kingdom.[58] It provided for unification elections under the supervision of the United Nations, but was rejected by the Soviet delegation.[58] From his home in France, Emperor Bảo Đại appointed Ngô Đình Diệm as Prime Minister of South Vietnam. With American support, in 1955 Diem used a referendum to remove the former Emperor and declare himself the president of the Republic of Vietnam.

When the elections failed to occur, Viet Minh cadres who stayed behind in South Vietnam were activated and started to fight the government. North Vietnam also invaded and occupied portions of Laos to assist in supplying the guerilla fighting National Liberation Front in South Vietnam. The war gradually escalated into the Second Indochina War, more commonly known as the Vietnam War in the West and the American War in Vietnam.

 

 

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

This would be the part to quote: 

 

 

Ummm...that's not the beginning....perhaps you missed my comment....

[Shawn0000]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It would seem to me that the company making the fuses need help 

 

It may have been the intention for a large percentage to land unexploded as a way of distributing land mines.

[Lupatria]

But he did not say: "we will collect all the bombs and re-use them in Syria."

[Shawn0000]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

Ummm...that's not the beginning....perhaps you missed my comment....

 

When is the beginning?  Vietnam battled against imperialism for almost 2000 years before those wars, the point of my quote is that it demonstrates the fact that it was partly due to US meddling that an agreement was not reached before the Vietnam War started. 

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

When is the beginning?  Vietnam battled against imperialism for almost 2000 years before those wars, the point of my quote is that it demonstrates the fact that it was partly due to US meddling that an agreement was not reached before the Vietnam War started. 

meddling by a bunch of different countries.  France, China, USSR, US.  On that we can agree. 

[Tonawatchee]

80,000,000 duds in Laos?

Wonder about Cambodia and Vietnam. Kids are still occasionally getting blown up in those countries 

War has no afterthought to any human welfare and we can still see that today.

[Pimay1]

1 hour ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

The Lao National Unexploded Ordnance Programme in 2009, of the 270 million cluster bombs it is estimated that 80 million failed to explode, these are spread out over 50% of the country and so far have killed 50,000 people.

Thanks for the reply.

[HappyDazed]

First time I went to Laos was in 1995, very limited infrastructure and only one real Road to speak of......I remember reading the following...

------

From 1964 to 1973, the U.S. dropped more than two million tons of ordnance on Laos during 580,000 bombing missions—equal to a planeload of bombs every 8 minutes, 24-hours a day, for 9 years – making Laos the most heavily bombed country per capita in history.

--------

 

...thinking what Laos must have been like in the 1960's & wondering <deleted> were they bombing exactly, farmers and hunter gatherers?

 

Apparently scores of ancient temples were destroyed as these were the only landmarks the American airforce could find on their maps of Laos.

 

A war crime of the highest order....

 

 

 

[halloween]

A moral obligation to clear ordnance acknowledged. And it only took 40+ years.