Financial Requirement for Retirement Extension

[Moonlover]

I found myself in a very embarrassing situation this morning. I went down to Udon Thani Immigration office to initiate my third retirement extension, only to discover that I did not meet the financial requirements. The background to this is as follows.

 

Erstwhile I have used the monthly income criteria of 65,000 THB by way of pensions and with the GBP as it was I was comfortably over that sum. The pound fell, as we all know, but I was not unduly worried as I was still above the minimum requirement. Or so I thought!

 

My application was rejected because my total yearly income was less than 800,000 THB!

 

Now we’ve all read the rules haven’t we? To qualify for a retirement extension, one requires a monthly income of 65,000 THB or a lump sum of 800,000 THB. (Or a combination thereof)

Not so at Udon Thani it appears. 800,000 THB is the dominating factor. In effect, what they want to see there is a minimum monthly income of 66,667 THB (800,000 x 12) and because of the fall in the pound I missed the cut.

 

We got round the problem by changing my application to marriage, which entailed a lot of chasing around and loads more paperwork and I will tip my hat to the immigration staff, who really went the extra mile to help us through it. But what if I’d been single? Would that have spelled the end of my stay in Thailand?

 

I am posting this, not as a criticism of the immigration staff, they apply the rules as they see it, but as a cautionary tale to others, who may be relying on pension incomes that have declined following Brexit. (Oh, how I'm coming to hate that word!)

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Moonlover

[ubonjoe]

They were certainly wrong wanting a annual income of 800k baht. The requirements are clearly written in the police order as 65k baht (780k baht annual income).

It almost seems like they did that because they wanted you do the extension based upon marriage.

If they pulled that on a single person I would highly suggest they call 1111 or 1178 to complain.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

They were certainly wrong wanting a annual income of 800k baht. The requirements are clearly written in the police order as 65k baht (780k baht annual income).

It almost seems like they did that because they wanted you do the extension based upon marriage.

If they pulled that on a single person I would highly suggest they call 1111 or 1178 to complain.

I certainly agree with your 1st para' udonjoe. Every single reference on this subject supports what you say.

 

As for the second, I'm not so sure. Initially my app was accepted and I even had the extension stamp in my passport. The rejection came when it was passed up to the supervisor for countersigning. The lady dealing with my app had done her job correctly, it was up the chain that it went pear shaped. The result was a load of hassle for me and my wife and a pile of extra work for the immigration desk officer. Very, very strange.

[elviajero]

I think the problem was that your GBP income after conversion was less than 65K pm, therefore, they would have to use the combination method and you would need a combined monthly income x 12 plus bank deposit totalling at least 800K.

• If you use the income method it is 65K pm equal to only 780K pa.
• If you use the combination method the combination of income plus deposit in the bank must equal 800K. e.g. If the monthly income was 60K x 12 = 720K you would need to show 80K in the bank for 3 months, making a combined total of 800K.

If you didn't have a bank passbook showing the amount required to give you a combined total of 800K they wouldn't be able to process the application based on retirement/combination.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I think the problem was that your GBP income after conversion was less than 65K pm, therefore, they would have to use the combination method and you would need a combined monthly income x 12 plus bank deposit totalling at least 800K.

• If you use the income method it is 65K pm equal to only 780K pa.
• If you use the combination method the combination of income plus deposit in the bank must equal 800K. e.g. If the monthly income was 60K x 12 = 720K you would need to show 80K in the bank for 3 months, making a combined total of 800K.

If you didn't have a bank passbook showing the amount required to give you a combined total of 800K they wouldn't be able to process the application based on retirement/combination.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Erstwhile I have used the monthly income criteria of 65,000 THB by way of pensions and with the GBP as it was I was comfortably over that sum. The pound fell, as we all know, but I was not unduly worried as I was still above the minimum requirement. Or so I thought!

 

My application was rejected because my total yearly income was less than 800,000 THB!

He states he had over 65k baht of income. I am certain he checked the exchange rate before he went to immigration.

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

He states he had over 65k baht of income. I am certain he checked the exchange rate before he went to immigration.

No, he states his past income was over 65K and thought it still was. If after the exchange calculation he was still below the 66.7K needed to meet 800K it means he is also very close to the 65K, and it is reasonable to assume it was under.

[Ronuk]

Taking the best rate you can get today,Sterling is down around 10% against the Baht compared to this time last year.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No, he states his past income was over 65K and thought it still was. If after the exchange calculation he was still below the 66.7K needed to meet 800K it means he is also very close to the 65K, and it is reasonable to assume it was under.

You quoting what he wrote out of context.

He also wrote that they wanted 800k baht annual income.

 

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Not so at Udon Thani it appears. 800,000 THB is the dominating factor. In effect, what they want to see there is a minimum monthly income of 66,667 THB (800,000 x 12) and because of the fall in the pound I missed the cut.

 

[elviajero]

No, I'm paraphrasing what he said.

I know he said they wanted 800K in income, but that could easily be a misunderstanding on the part of the OP. I believe the 800K figure came into play because he didn't meet the 65K income and could only get the extension based on the combination method which takes the total required to 800K.

[Gonsalviz]

Am I reading this as you can show bank transfers to satisfy the 65,000 Baht requirement?

 

I have well over that amount but most of the transfers would have been from last year. My retirement pay is not a fixed amount but over the last 2 years the total amount is well above the 65,000 Baht requirement.

 

I thought we had to go to the respective embassy for  a cert.

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, Gonsalviz said:

Am I reading this as you can show bank transfers to satisfy the 65,000 Baht requirement?

 

I have well over that amount but most of the transfers would have been from last year. My retirement pay is not a fixed amount but over the last 2 years the total amount is well above the 65,000 Baht requirement.

 

I thought we had to go to the respective embassy for  a cert.

• You do need to get a letter form your Embassy confirming the amount of your income in your home currency. What proof the Embassy will accept varies.
• That is the only proof Thai Immigration will accept.
• Immigration will convert the income stated on the letter to baht on the day you apply for the extension.

[lopburi3]

You do - using income requires Embassy letter.

 

The question here is if the combined method was offered (800k) when reviewing officer may have found income below 65k using a different exchange rate?  Pure speculation as we do not know details and poster took it to mean a higher than 65k income would be required.

[Moonlover]

Ok folks, just for clarity. My monthly income, even by their pessimistic calculations, was over 65k. In fact it was around 66k. That equites to around 792k a year, which was, by their reckoning, an 8k shortfall. I actually had around 30k in the bank, but it did not qualify because it had not been 'seasoned' in my name for 3 months.

 

Go figure for yourselves. Me, I'm ok. I'll have a marriage extension next month and I'll make damn sure this doesn't happen again next year.

 

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

He states he had over 65k baht of income. I am certain he checked the exchange rate before he went to immigration.

Thanks Joe. Correct!

[Lite Beer]

Looks to me like the op had enough income to qualify.

Maybe he should move to another province next time.

Udon seem to have there own wacky rules.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Lite Beer

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Lite Beer said:

Looks to me like the op had enough income to qualify.

Maybe he should move to another province next time.

Udon seem to have there own wacky rules.

As we don't know the income on the Embassy letter or, more importantly, the exchange rate used by the supervising IO we will never know for sure, but as the margins are so small I still suspect it fell under 65K. It is also surprising that the OP didn't have at least 8K in his account for 3 months!

 

Immigration offices usually prefer processing applications based on retirement rather than marriage as it involves less paperwork for all concerned, so I'd be surprised if Udon are going against the standard 65K rule and causing themselves more work, but we obviously can't discount the fact. I will call them on Monday and try and find out what the policy is.

[IMA_FARANG]

For retirement you can normally use the 800K baht in your bank account, OR the 65K MONTHLY equivalent income, OR the combination method of Bank balance and a monthly income which gives an annual total of over 800K Baht equivalent.

Exactly how far that combo required annual total is over the 800K  is up to the particular immigration officer.

Some will allow you to be closer to 800K while others will insist on more.

I have heard of immigration officers to insist on 900K annually.

And now, more places are insisting on a 3 month "seasoning" period for "combination" funding approval also.

You might look into the Thai Elite card as an alternate choice, if you can afford the 500K requirement for the basic p[an.

 

[Boon Mee]

One additional thing to note boys is if you're going for the Retirement Extension based on 800K THB alone, don't forget to update your passbook the day (even better, minutes) before you show up at Immigration.

This poster was caught out once on that point and had to scramble around to find an ATM.

Also, the Bank Letter from your Bank needs to have been generated within the prior 10 days if memory serves. 

[Evilbaz]

If the IO uses the cash rate when he should use the tt rate, as that is how it usually is received into a Thai bank, then there could be a shortfall if "close to the mark".

e.g. BKB cash rate today is 45.64/GBP and the tt rate is 45.9.

[david555]

It is always a gamble if you go close to the borderlines for the money rules , as the question also is which rate /Bank they apply , I am sure they not have all the Thai banks listed , and that also can give a different result ...., I also make the bank letter just before I go Jomtien 5 Pattaya  (just a 5 min.walk )  ,so no discussion and 100 baht putting on account extra for updating , KK bank give letter AND copy from passbook , took me day before yesterday only good 5 minutes to deliver all the needed doc + signing again those dc. in Thai never knowing what is on it , (presume it is the overstay rules declared and agreed for reading )  and walk out office , passport taking yesterday , all ok

 

I do not know why so many are afraid to put the lump sum on a Thai bank , as you live here you pay in baht , even baht go down or up you still pay the same baht YOU LIVE ANYWAY HERE IN THAILAND !!

, Europe banks scare me more than Thai banks , only the nagging questions from bank why not deposit 4 year  for 5%..starting from 1 million ....nice gesture compering the almost 0% in Europe ? .... I blame it on immigration ....but i like the immediate control to the lump sum. 

Immigration Jomtien 5 is a sea wind breeze latest ...(on condition doc. ok )

[Boon Mee]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

I do not know why so many are afraid to put the lump sum on a Thai bank , as you live here you pay in baht , even baht go down or up you still pay the same baht YOU LIVE ANYWAY HERE IN THAILAND !!

Seems like the most logical and sensible thing to do.  Just rat-hole that money in your bank and forget it.  Makes life a lot easier...

[whatproblem]

Now Thailand are going to get some smart police that work it would be nice if they got some smart immigration officers too 

[Boon Mee]

Check my shocked face!

Yesterday I called up this new Immigration Office we have here in the  Ban Nok and after answering my initial question,  the officer switched to clear English!  And he was polite too! Vastly different experience from the office in Ayutthaya.

Things are definitely improving. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Maybe I'm missing it here, but did the OP ever actually say here whether he had a consulate income affidavit certifying his monthly income, and if so, what GBP amount was certified on the affidavit?

 

Knowing that detail would help better evaluate how Immigration handled his case.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Suradit69]

13 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Ok folks, just for clarity. My monthly income, even by their pessimistic calculations, was over 65k. In fact it was around 66k. That equites to around 792k a year, which was, by their reckoning, an 8k shortfall. I actually had around 30k in the bank, but it did not qualify because it had not been 'seasoned' in my name for 3 months.

 

Go figure for yourselves. Me, I'm ok. I'll have a marriage extension next month and I'll make damn sure this doesn't happen again next year.

 

"  My monthly income, even by their pessimistic calculations, was over 65k. In fact it was around 66k. "

 

Did you see their "pessimistic" calculations or are you just guessing?  You don't calculate by multiplying 12 x 800,000 ...

 

Quote

a minimum monthly income of 66,667 THB (800,000 x 12) 

 

Assuming you checked one of bank websites for the current rates, which column did you use?

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by Suradit69

[louse1953]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

He states he had over 65k baht of income. I am certain he checked the exchange rate before he went to immigration.

Was it the same exchange rate though?

[Mansell]

I am somewhat amused by the poster....he wanted a retirement extension and they forced him into a marriage extension. I wanted marriage and they forced me into retirement extension. I find his more bizarre than mine. What can you do!

[sendintheclowns]

re: the date of the Bank certificate of 800K.

For 2015 retirement visa extension, I  obtained the certificate the day before I went to Immigration.

I was sent back to my village bank (120 Km away) to get a new certificate dated the same date as I was applying.

This year (2016) I visited my bank on the morning of my visit to Immigration - so no problem, for that item

However, Supervision insisted I return to my home bank branch and obtain 3 months certified copies of my savings passbook.  IN ADDITION to my 800K certification. Her justification was, ''how do we know what you live off'' . Nakohn Si Thammarat. Lets be honest - Thais (I mean officially) will never accept that foreigners are able to live in their country. Been here since 1996 - slow learner:)

[bustit997]

Wow. I'm glad I'm an American and don't have to prove my income ( but must go to the American embassy in Bkk to get a verification of income notorized) or show my bank account. Thank goodness we have the Treaty of Amnity with Thailand as last year I only had $300,000 baht in the bank when I renewed my retirement visa and this year my annual retirement check is comming after I have to renew the visa again. I have heard some immigration places still ask for the proof but I was only asked once and I reminded him that I was an American and was not required to show proof and he grudgingly stamped my passport and that was that. BTW, the notorized income form from the embassy I just put down whatever I want as they don't check. As the person there told me " we just notorized your signature, not what you really earn, so we don't care what amount you put down". Pretty sweet for us Americans.

[elgordo38]

I had the same problem when I first came to Thailand. The immigration officer checks the rate of exchange and my currency barely qualified me. With a big smile on his face he told  me that I was lucky as the exchange rate had dropped and I was just over the minimum to qualify for the retirement visa.