Who Will Bang Their Heads If Malaysia And Thailand Build A Border Wall

[chainarong]

When the first group of terrorist  bomb  makers came into Thailand from Malaysia from indo after the first Bali bombings ,  Malaysia knew all along that they used Malaysia as a stepping off place  , the first Thailand knew was the first bombs started to go off , long time Thai expats would remember that, up till then they only slit throats and gunned school teachers down, lots of promises since then from Malaysia and no action ,  will believe it when I see it ...................................................   

[Clamhua]

The Malays won't like the wall, they won't be able to slip across for a soapy massage and back again without getting caught...

[Bluespunk]

Just now, Oxx said:

 

Unfortunately, on the Moslem side there is no one to talk to who credibly represents the terrorists and can control them.  Even the objectives of the terrorists are unclear and incompletely understood.  They don't issue statements of their demands.

 

What is clear is that there hasn't been enough violence on the part of the Thai military to wipe these terrorists off the face of the planet.

There are plenty of representatives of groups willing to discuss terms of peace that take into account the needs of all those who live in the South. The govt here can't pick and choose who they talk with. They have to meet all those involved if peace talks are to succeed. 

 

As for those unwilling to talk, there are always hold outs after conflicts like this. They will be a lot easier to root out once there is a deal in place that the majority of the citizens of the south are prepared to accept.

 

For that to happen though, there have to be talks.

 

As for your second paragraph, that is nonsense. There has been far too much violence and atrocities carried out by both sides since this vicious conflict started.

 

Violence has failed. The time for killing is over.

 

[Saradoc1972]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Certainly won't be any peace talks with anyone sharing your view of what has been happening in the south.

 

Conflict resolution may not be a career path that suits you. 

 

I'm a lawyer. No, earnestly.

Hmm, you might have a point. 

[Raymonddiaz]

mark my words it ain't gonna happen.

[Saradoc1972]

54 minutes ago, jamesbrock said:

 

...apart from what was taken from them against their will—i.e. self determination—when the Sultanate of Pattani was divided between London and Bangkok under the the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909, and their own ethnic identity which was forcefully erased when, in 1934, Marshall Plaek Phibunsongkhram set in motion of the process of Thaification which had as its objective the cultural assimilation of the Pattani people, among other ethnic groups in Thailand.

 

I am not in any way defending their methods, but I can see they have (had?) legitimate grievances.

 

Dear oh dear! I bet their grand-grand-grandfathers had it bad, and then their grand-grandfathers (not like they really noticed any of this in those overgrown backwaters).

Now I totally get them. It's all totally in line with the ongoing humiliation of Islam since the 8th century and when they lost Spain.

 

Grievances and resentments normally die down after a generation or two. The Polish, French and Italians don't hate the Germans, the Hereros don't remember a thing, the Germans don't hate the Americans, neither do the Spanish, there is no narrative of revenge in Vietnam, it's only Muslims who seek some explanation why they must be after anybody else, probably it must be down to unfair play that Islam does not rule the world, if it was not it would have to be them being bad Muslims or something.

 

 

[jamesbrock]

Just now, Saradoc1972 said:

Dear oh dear! I bet their grand-grand-grandfathers had it bad, and then their grand-grandfathers (not like they really noticed any of this in those overgrown backwaters).

Now I totally get them. It's all totally in line with the ongoing humiliation of Islam since the 8th century and when they lost Spain.

 

Grievances and resentments normally die down after a generation or two. The Polish, French and Italians don't hate the Germans, the Hereros don't remember a thing, the Germans don't hate the Americans, neither do the Spanish, there is no narrative of revenge in Vietnam, it's only Muslims who seek some explanation why they must be after anybody else, probably it must be down to unfair play that Islam does not rule the world, if it was not it would have to be them being bad Muslims or something.

 

Oh, right, an Islamophobe.

 

The issue has nothing to do with the fact that the southern Thai Malays were the original settlers there with their own culture, their own religion, their own language and their own kingdom.

 

It's got nothing to do with the fact that their history can be traced back to the old and ancient Malay Kingdom of Langkasuka in the second century, that evolved over the years to become the Pattani Sultanate of the 19th century.

 

Nothing to do with the British-Siam Treaty of 1902 dividing the Sultanate between Thai and the British colonisers.

 

Nothing to do with the total cultural colonisation was imposed on them to the extent that they had to change their own Malay-Muslim names to Thai ones, they were not allowed to practice their own culture freely, their language, Malay, was suppressed and they were forced to adopt Thai culture and language which is totally alien to them.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with the complete and systematic Thai cultural domination perpetrated by a Thai colonisation agenda to permanently erase their Malay-Muslim origins that they should have gotten over by now.

 

They're Muslims, so that explains everything.

 

Apologies for engaging you.  

[Bluespunk]

11 minutes ago, Saradoc1972 said:

 

Dear oh dear! I bet their grand-grand-grandfathers had it bad, and then their grand-grandfathers (not like they really noticed any of this in those overgrown backwaters).

Now I totally get them. It's all totally in line with the ongoing humiliation of Islam since the 8th century and when they lost Spain.

 

Grievances and resentments normally die down after a generation or two. The Polish, French and Italians don't hate the Germans, the Hereros don't remember a thing, the Germans don't hate the Americans, neither do the Spanish, there is no narrative of revenge in Vietnam, it's only Muslims who seek some explanation why they must be after anybody else, probably it must be down to unfair play that Islam does not rule the world, if it was not it would have to be them being bad Muslims or something.

 

 

The countries you list are not currently occupied by what is perceived as a foreign power.

 

There was a political settlement put in place after the last major outbreak of hostilities that was working perfectly well. However the self serving interests of a certain someone led to the dismantling of this system and the erosion of autonomy.

 

The protests and over reaction to protests against this led to violence and the bloodshed that has followed since then.

 

This conflict is about separatism and/or autonomy.

 

It can be resolved but there has to be a willingness on both sides to negotiate and reach a settlement that may not give everyone what they want but it might be enough to make peace possible.

 

After all these years of violence there really is no other solution. The fact that major separatist groups are willing to come to the table is an indication they realise this.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Bluespunk

[IAMHERE]

7 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

first Norway then the UK and now Thailand building border walls.. maybe Trump's border policies are catching on..

I thought the Chinese started this wall building thing, then the Romans in England, and recently the Russians in Berlin and some Jews in Isreal/Gaza.

[JustNo]

Humans suck

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

I thought the Chinese started this wall building thing, then the Romans in England, and recently the Russians in Berlin and some Jews in Isreal/Gaza.

I think you mean Israelis in Israel.

[thaiturkey]

23 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I think you mean Israelis in Israel.

 

BOTH INCORRECT

the correct analysis is Jews in Palestine, an occupying regime. 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, thaiturkey said:

 

BOTH INCORRECT

the correct analysis is Jews in Palestine, an occupying regime. 

Going to have to disagree with you there. Israelis in Israel are of all faiths.

[oldlakey]

9 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

seems like Thailand is taking more advise from China. A wall would not stop those that truly wanted to cross borders. instead it would open a market for tunneled entry.

I hope not as the great wall of China had more gaps in it than my teeth

[oldlakey]

1 hour ago, JustNo said:

Humans suck

Just about anything

[ericthai]

7 hours ago, Oxx said:

So, what's to stop the Moslem terrorists simply taking a boat around the ends of any such wall?

 

I think we should have have Islamophobic sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads too.

or making a latter out of bamboo.  15'  wall  16'  ladder. 

[autanic]

Quote

Thai junta leader Prayut Chan-o-cha . . .

 

This sends shivers down my spine every time I read it. 

 

For years I have not visited Myanmar for this reason. A Country should decide it's democracy by election, not at the force of the armed forces. 

 

I am going to put my money, where my mouth is.

 

I will not return to Thailand, until a democratically elected Government and Prime Minster are running the Country again. As a law abiding citizen, the crackdown Thailand has been placing on Foreigners and the increasing Xenophobic nature towards the South and now Countries to the South, does not inspire me to live, travel or spend any time at all in Thailand.

 

Thank you for some great holidays and long stays and my heartfelt thanks go out to the Thai People. (Khop Khun Mark Khap), but it is time for me and mine to find new places to enjoy our summers and winters.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by autanic

[Wilsonandson]

Two issues in particular have spurred the interest of Malaysia and Thailand in building a border wall, said Srisompop Jitpiromsri, director of Deep South Watch.

“The first is to stop the flow of illegal goods, whether it is petrol, drugs or human trafficking.

“The second reason is that insurgents operating in Thailand regularly cross the border and use Malaysia as a safety base.”

 

Read more: http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/2016/09/08/malaysia-thai-border-wall-to-be-built-after-all/#ixzz4K350WbKy

 

How will they get the train down to Butterworth now? Riddiculous. I'm not climbing no ladder to do my penang visa trip.

[oldlakey]

3 hours ago, Clamhua said:

The Malays won't like the wall, they won't be able to slip across for a soapy massage and back again without getting caught...

Childish bullshit such as that is one reason why the slaughter that is taking place not only in Thailand but worldwide will not be ending anytime soon

[Hedghog]

9 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Are they kidding? Hungary is barren steppe - easy for them. A wall here would have to plough through vast areas of primary rainforest. Apart from the environmental destruction, it would prevent the movement of larger animals and disrupt the entire ecosystem. What sort of f***tard is not even aware of that?

Get on down there and make your protest.

Or are you just an armchair environmental warrior?

 

[BKKBrit]

Nonsense. The military this side of the border want and encourage the conflict.  Go figure it out.

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, Oxx said:

on the Moslem side there is no one to talk to who credibly represents the terrorists

Incorrect.

The insurgents are being represented by the umbrella group Mara Patani. The Mara Patani delegation is comprised of representatives from the six groups which have been struggling for the secession of Thailand’s three southern border provinces for the past decade. They include: Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN), Gerakan Mujahidin Islam Patani (GMIP), Barisan Islam Pembebasan Patani (BIPP), PULO-DSPP, PULO-MKP and PULO-P4. It has set various conditions for peace talks - all of which Prayut has rejected out of hand, including even the name of Mara Patani and presence of international moderators.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/851635-southern-separatist-leaders-state-their-case-to-end-violence/

 

[doctorproc156]

This thing about the Muslim insurgents crossing the border to get cover is total bullshit, when was the last time we've heard in the news of an actual battle/firefight between the Thai forces and the Pattani insurgents that forced them to run across the border for cover? NEVER. Because this has never happened. These people are terrorists and not an army. It is difficult and practically impossible to tell who is a part of these insurgent groups and who isn't.

 

The only reason the military government wants this border is to make it seem like he's doing something and take in the kickbacks from the construction. And the only reason the Malaysian government wants this border is to stop the cheaper and less taxed goods being smuggled into Thailand and to supposedly stop the flow of drugs and weapons coming in from Thailand, to use as a scapegoat for the crime that goes on; something which can easily be overcome by using submarine drones. And of course the kickbacks from construction as well.

 

Either way, this is just another pointless money making scheme and dick wagging contest. Quite ironic how they keep talking about integration and the AEC and making ASEAN a hub whilst at the same time doing things as ridiculous as this. Now we can see their true colors.

Edited September 12, 2016 by doctorproc156

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, Hedghog said:

Get on down there and make your protest.

Or are you just an armchair environmental warrior?

 

 

I'm an environmental consultant, providing feedback to government agencies and moral support for conservation and lobby groups through digital media.

 

Anyway, no need to worry - a wall along the whole border isn't going to happen. Ralph Jennings clearly hasn't looked at the map and has just run with idea like a dog with a lamb chop.

 

If anything, they will just reinforce the border adjacent to populated areas, though I suggest they spend the money instead on developing the southern provinces and giving them greater autonomy, which is really what they want - I don't believe even the insurgents think that a separate state is viable.

[Srikcir]

6 minutes ago, doctorproc156 said:

the only reason the Malaysian government wants this border

It was in September 2015 Malaysia that agreed with Prayut to build a border wall but for the purpse of stopping (as you mention) rampant smuggling of weapons, drugs, and (what you omit) people (aka human trafficking). Interdicting Malay-Thai insurgents was not Malaysia's reason. 

http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/malaysia-thailand-agree-to-build-border-wall-amid-trafficking-woes/114258/

[Srikcir]

9 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

I don't believe even the insurgents think that a separate state is viable.

It was a viable state before being annexed by the Kingdom of Thailand.

Between its rubber, fishing and tourism industries and offshore natural resources there's ample opportunity for economic independence, especially with an economic alignment with Malaysia and Indoneasia.

[doctorproc156]

8 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

It was in September 2015 Malaysia that agreed with Prayut to build a border wall but for the purpse of stopping (as you mention) rampant smuggling of weapons, drugs, and (what you omit) people (aka human trafficking). Interdicting Malay-Thai insurgents was not Malaysia's reason. 

http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/malaysia-thailand-agree-to-build-border-wall-amid-trafficking-woes/114258/

 

This isn't going to stop anything, officials on both sides were well aware of those Ronhingya and Bangladeshi migrants in those camps. As long as corruption exists then the only thing this wall will achieve is make it harder for the animals of the area to migrate back and forth.

[BKKBrit]

Incredible amount of uninformed and frankly ignorant comments in this thread. If you guys live here...shame on you.  For those outside the country and blame Islam for the price of bread and your property value dropping...do some research.  It's seriously frightening how many don't even know the history of the country they call home and profess to be experts. Jeesh. 

[Gulfsailor]

The violence in the south is not driven by religious or political reasons. The sole reason is money and power. It is so much easier to smuggle goods and people across a border in a region that is near anarchy. The so called militants are not being funded by Islamic bodies or countries, but by local very rich and powerful crime bosses. They need the violence to continue, to keep raking in the money. Take a drive through the area and see some of the giant mansions, then ask the locals who lives in these mansions. In that regard a wall will certainly curtail their power and influence and with it the violence will end. 

[ddavidovsky]

18 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

It was a viable state before being annexed by the Kingdom of Thailand.

Between its rubber, fishing and tourism industries and offshore natural resources there's ample opportunity for economic independence, especially with an economic alignment with Malaysia and Indoneasia.

 

Statehood is like species differentiation. It takes an aeon of nurturing a distinct heritage. The place is just not different enough. If they had their own language they would have more of a case - I'm not sure having their own dialect is enough.

As to the economics of it, it takes more than a bit of agriculture. Tourism potential is only moderate and it's a smallish area - limited room for development but still would require sufficient GDP to keep it running.

What would be it's new capital, Yala?

I can't see it working and I doubt that was ever their real goal, though the idea of independence has crept up recently in order to sustain the struggle. Thailand can solve this problem by throwing money down there and giving them enough autonomy. No other solution is needed - and there really is no other solution.